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Revolution #9: Art or Self-Indulgent Crap?

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BlackVelvetElvis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:23 PM
Original message
Revolution #9: Art or Self-Indulgent Crap?
(Oops, accidentally posted this in GD:Politics!)

Back to the question:

I listened to this today for the first time in about 15 years.
What was John thinking? What's the point of this piece.
I give John credit for trying something radically new but what the hell was this about?
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's all about expression
It takes many forms. Some like it, some done. Still art.
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Squeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. The big question is
whether "Revolution #9" is a good example of sound collage art, and I would say no. The real masters in this field are people like Todd Dockstader, Pierre Schaffer, and Frank Zappa's old hero Edgard Varese, and they know how to structure found sounds so they have drama and meaning. John did this because Yoko introduced him to the concept, and he figured he'd give it a whirl. It's not bad for an amateur (I certainly don't think I'd do much better) but it's a pity most people who hear this and scratch their heads over it will never hear any of the people who do this sort of thing well.

Yoko's previous husband had studied with John Cage, who was a great advocate for this sort of music. The thing about Cage was that he generated great ideas, but he implemented them in a deliberately non-judgmental manner, just to try the experiment and see how it might come out. He explicitly didn't want to impose his own tastes on the results. Unfortunately in the real world, taste is one of the most important ways we judge artists.
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BlackVelvetElvis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'd be interested in listening to some of that.
That was the problem I had with #9, I felt like it needed some context instead of chaos.
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Squeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. If you're a Zappa fan
you should start with Varese, because you'll already have some hints about his rhythmic ideas. Also I think he's probably the best known composer in this medium whose work I really respect. (John Cage is more famous, but he doesn't have any tape pieces I would recommend. Karlheinz Stockhausen might also show up at the library, and if they have "Gesang der Junglinge," i.e. Song of Children, check that out. But Varese is better.)

Most of Varese's work was for conventional instruments, albeit used in unconventional ways. He doesn't use what we call functional harmony, the idea that chord changes lead up to cadences that define the key you're in. Rather, he instructs his musicians to play notes that interact like the beams and struts that keep a building from falling down-- and he used this metaphor himself. So when he got to use a tape recorder, some 40 years after he began composing, he took to it immediately-- his aesthetic was ready for it long before it was even invented.

So Philips commissioned him to do a tape piece for their pavilion at the Brussels World's Fair in 1958/59, so he did an 8 minute piece called "Poeme Electronique." The sound sources he used included both electronically generated noises and natural sounds, including human voices and (some) musical instruments. It's weird, but I do get an emotional sense out of it. (And, I regret to say, not a happy one.)

If you can find it, I think a record called "Quatermass," by Todd Dockstader, is better-- more interesting sound sources, and a more heroic vibe overall. But it's considerably more obscure-- Dockstader never wrote for conventional instruments, and in fact considered himself more of a technician than a musician, so "real" musicians tend to dis him. But I like inspired amateurs.

Hope this helps.
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. I find it utterly unlistenable.
x(
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bloodyjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. You have to listen to it in reverse to truly grok it
It's kind of neat how some of the samples sound the same back and forth and you can also hear HARMLESS SECRET MESSAGES
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Just how do you do that, though?
If I tried it with my home turntable, I'd break the damned thing.
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bloodyjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Do you have a copy of the song on your computer?
Well, first rip or download a copy of the song from some shitty filesharing network if you don't already have it. Then get AUDACITY ( http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ )

Open Audacity>Open desired file in Audacity>Effect>Reverse

Easy as falling in love, see? :)
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Ivan Sputnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. I think it's a bit of a spoof
on avant-garderies, then-popular notions of "revolution" and the Beatles own "sound effects"/Sgt. Pepper period.
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