OK...So What is Your Top Ten List for Best and Worst Presidents??

[mermaid]

Here's mine...
Top Ten Worst Presidents...
1. Chimpy
2. Reagan
3. Nixon
4. Poppy
5. Hoover
6. Coolidge
7. Buchanan
8. Harding
9. Grant
10. John Adams (not John Quincy Adams, either)

Incidentally, John Adams makes my list for "The Alien and Sedition Act."

Honorable mention to Ike Eisenhower.


Top Ten BEST Presidents...
1. Abe Lincoln (no contest)
2. Thomas Jefferson
3. F.D.R.
4. Teddy Roosevelt
5. Harry Truman
6. George Washington
7. J.F.K.
8. Jimmy Carter
9. William Jefferson Clinton
10. Woodrow Wilson

And, if only he'd ever served in that capacity, I am quite sure Benjamin Franklin would have been an outstanding President! At any rate, he was a first-class statesman!

[lenidog]

1. Wilson?

Failed at every foreign policy move he made and a racist makes your list?

[mermaid]

2. But, You Forget....

He DID start the League of Nations...which made possible the later development of the U.N.

The idea was revolutionary for it's time. And Wilson makes my list strictly and solely for his work in founding the League of Nations....for, though it failed...it was the first such international body of it's kind...and, without that, the U.N. may never have even been founded...or even conceived!

[lenidog]

5. Well it was a great idea

but I know the League of Nations was a failure while outside of some of its organizations like WHO or UNESCO I haven't seen the UN make the world any safer or peaceful.

[mermaid]

7. Agreed!

But there at least now IS a forum where nations of the world can come together to discuss common problems, and possible solutions. There never before was any such forum.

I'd like it to be more effective, but it is at least a start. And would likely never have even been conceived, if not for the failed League of Nations.

[WI_DEM]

50. most presidents of his time were racists

even honest Abe. Unfortunately he reflected his time and upbringing.

[Stop_the_War]

3. You better edit that "best" list. Woodrow Wilson was a racist kkk member..

At that time Democrats were conservatives.

[mermaid]

4. Nope. I'm Not Editing. See Above.

I concede all that to you...and there is a REASON WHY Wilson is down at number 10 of 10 on my list, believe me.

But his work on the League of Nations somewhat redeems him in my eyes.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

10. During the Wilson admin.

Many were imprisioned for being "anti war", "anti US" during WWI without charge. A few stayed in prision until the early 30's. Thus the birth of the ACLU.

Rebirth of the sedition act in the 20th century.
While I admire his idealism re: the League. He was almost as bad as Adams in regard to this.

[realisticphish]

30. see?

without him, no ACLU...we win ;)

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[lenidog]

32. I forgot about that

Eugene V Debs spent several years in Federal prison for speaking out against WWI and advocating draft resistance. He is the only candidate for president who was on the ballot while in prison. (FYI he got a million votes)

[Zomby Woof]

42. He fought women's suffrage

If not for his stroke and his more-enlightened wife taking the helm his last year in office, the 20th amendment may have been delayed many more years.

[CubsFan1982]

43. Wrong.

Wilson actually supported women's suffrage. His wife Edith, who you were referring to actually tried to convince Wilson to oppose it. She thought it would destroy the traditional roles of women. For his time, and in a lot of ways, Wilson was quite progressive.

[Zomby Woof]

41. A white supremacist

Gets no redemption, and he lusted for war, but was a phony liar about it. "He Kept Us Out Of War" was the worst ass-kissing lying campaign slogan until "Compassionate Conservative" came along.

Also, sent Marines into Central America to protect United Fruit... a precedent of Latin American meddling he inherited from McKinley that would go on through Bush Sr.

[pres2032]

52. so you'd rather we had stayed out of world war I?

While i'm not saying our intervention was the direct reason it ended when it did, the British and French were at the end of their ropes and desperately needed reinforcements. how many more millions would have died had we not entered? Who knows, the Germans may have even won if we hadn't entered.

[CubsFan1982]

53. The Germans most DEFINITELY would have won...

Had we not entered. In fact, Hindenburg and the German High Command were all saying the same thing, that American troops not only reinforced the Allies, it reinvigorated them too, inspiring them to fight harder. Excellent point, my dear sir! :D

[pres2032]

56. yeah, i heard that too

the Allies needed us big time. I would say that even the germans were nearing the end of their rope too and so which ever side could get that key boost won. remember too, we also almost joined on the German side. There was a lot of pro-german support in the US.

[CubsFan1982]

59. Actually, there was never any real chance we'd join the Germans.

We were so adamantly neutral up until the sinking of the Lusitania, that our "official" sympathies were always with the Allies. There was, indeed, considerable pro-German sentiment, especially amongst the Irish-American population. This was mainly because of their animosity towards and ill treatment by Britain, perhaps Paddy can expand on that for me, he might know more about it than I. But as far as Wilson was concerned, there was no way we could come in on the side of the Kaiser.

[pres2032]

6. Lincoln may have also been racist

he certianly wasn't in favor of equality.

[mermaid]

9. Quite Likely

However, being a racist does not necessarily make one a bad person, or a bad President. Nor does that one black mark of being a racist undo a great number of good things done by a person.

No, I don't like racism, sexism, classism, anti-Semitism...etc, etc, etc. BUT...you cannot take that one aspect of a person and use it to negate everything good they accomplished in their lives.

And Abe Lincoln, no contest, is my number one Best President.

[pres2032]

12. sure, he's my number 1 president too

i was trying to make that same point. Lincoln may have been racist, but yet still managed to unite the country and end slavery. that's gotta count for something. I think Wilson is a great president too and I blame the failure of the League of Nations squarely on the US Senate.

[CubsFan1982]

19. Not ENTIRELY on the Senate.

Lodge and the Republicans did come up with very reasonable (for the time) reservations that Wilson absolutely refused to have anything to do with. He helped craft the Versailles Treaty full well knowing that the Republicans who controlled Congress would never assent to some of the provisions. Wilson was as much to blame, for being so utterly inflexible, as Lodge and the Senate Republicans.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

15. Anachronistic.

Plus, Lincoln's views changed over time. Nobody would say Lincoln was a racist back in 1865.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

21. Not entirely true

Yeah, the Dems were racists, but the republicans have always represented corporate big business and I believe, though I could be wrong, that republicans were behind Prohibition and the Democrats were not.

[Dave Sund]

39. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves

What, exactly, is your point?

Washington, Jefferson, and really, every President in the early years of the Republic except for Adams, owned slaves.
FDR put all Japanese-Americans in internment camps.
And yet, Washington, Jefferson, and FDR are routinely rated among the top five presidents.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. Mine:

Best first.

1. Franklin D Roosevelt
2. Abraham Lincoln
3. Thomas Jefferson
4. George Washington
5. Theodore Roosevelt
6. Harry S Truman
7. Bill Clinton
8. John F Kennedy
9. Woodrow Wilson (racist bastard, but ahead of his time on foreign policy issues...the League of Nations led to the UN. Considering the nonentities who make up the remainder of our Presidents, he makes this list by default.)
10. Andrew Jackson (not "best", maybe, but belongs in a list of "greatest" nonetheless, based on impact and influence; still among my least favourite presidents, though)

And LBJ gets an honourable mention, because despite Vietnam (huge black mark), his social and domestic policies were the best, arguably, of any President since FDR (the "Great Society", civil rights legislation, etc).

Worst:

1. George Walker Bush
2. James Buchanan
3. Franklin Pierce
4. Andrew Johnson
5. Warren Harding
6. Ulysses Grant
7. Calvin Coolidge
8. William McKinley
9. Ronald Reagan
10. Richard Nixon

[mermaid]

11. Our Best List Seems Very Similar....

just a few minor changes, we have virtually the same Best List...and I note you, too, included Woodrow Wilson.

Our Worst List, however, quite a divergence....

Interesting.

Well, let's see who else wants to chime in with their best/worst....and why.

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. Well...I was a history major.

So I tend to look at "best" or "worst" not only in terms of the administrations themselves, but in terms of influence and negative effects. McKinley, for instance, was a Gilded Age laissez-faire capitalist and imperialist whose Presidency set the tone for over a century of American military belligerence and intervention, and whose economic and fiscal policies are part of what led ultimately to the Depression, along with a series of smaller depressions and panics in between. Wilson, on the other hand, gets credit for the founding of the Federal Reserve System under his Presidency, which was a step in the right direction, fiscally, but ultimately not enough (as events showed). Oh, and Wilson ALSO gets credit for the implementation of income tax (it HAD been done before, but only as a temporary measure), which made possible a tremendous number of social and public works programmes further down the road.

[CubsFan1982]

13. Here's mine:

Worst:
1) George W. Bush (2001-present) - it's obvious.
2) Ronald Reagan (1981-9) - again, it's obvious.
3) Richard M. Nixon (1969-74) - Hello, Watergate?
4) Ulysses S. Grant (1869-77) - set a gold standard for corruption.
5) Warren G. Harding (1921-3) - corrupt, spent more time banging his mistress than dealing with the affairs of state.
6) James Buchanan (1857-61) - weak-willed chocolate eclair who did nothing to stop secession.
7) Franklin Pierce (1853-7) - hard to say if he or Buchanan was more useless.
8) William Howard Taft (1909-13) - his Presidency was an unmitigated disaster from start to finish.
9) Calvin Coolidge (1923-9) - fiddled while Rome burned.
10) Herbert C. Hoover (1929-33) - did too little, too late to ease the burden of the Depression.

Greatest:
1) Abraham Lincoln (1861-5) - He saved the Union and ended slavery.
2) George Washington (1789-97) - Only he could have done what we needed from a 1st President.
3) Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-45) - Ended the Depression, won World War II -- and he did it all from a wheelchair.
4) Harry S. Truman (1945-53) - No one faced so much in so little time as Truman did in his first 12 months, and he dealt with it superbly.
5) Theodore Roosevelt (1901-9) - First progressive President, first environmentalist President, yes he was a war monger, but I'm willing to overlook it.
6) Woodrow Wilson (1913-21) - Ahead of his time in many respects, behind it in a lot of others.
7) Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-9) - History will vindicate this man, and judge him based on his whole record, warts and all. He deserves a place on this list for civil rights alone - where Kennedy talked the talk, LBJ walked the walk.
8) Grover Cleveland (1885-9; 1893-7) - An able, honest, capable President in a Gilded Age full of incompetent boobs.
9) John F. Kennedy (1961-3) - Showed wisdom and grace under pressure in times of crisis. Overdeified and overrated because of his untimely death, but had potential to be in the top 5.
10) John Adams (1797-1801) - Averted an almost certainly disastrous war with France, checked the militarism of Hamilton and the High Federalists. Entirely underrated.

Edit: minor grammatical error. I'm anal about these things. :P

[mermaid]

17. Interesting...

Yes, a case can be made for Grover Cleveland to be on the Greatest list. But, what I find interesting is that you put John Adams on your BEST list...while he shows up on my WORST list.

I guess The Alien and Sedition Acts, as I said...was enough for me to ignore anything else the man did or tried to do....it was THAT un-American!

The whole point of Freedom of Speech is to be able to voice dissent against the GOVERNMENT...and Adams attempted to squelch such speech as "seditious."

[CubsFan1982]

23. It was more the High Federalists in Congress...

Than Adams who pushed through the Alien and Sedition Acts. While Adams did not oppose them, he signed them in the context of the time - almost certain war with France, and thousands of French agents lurking throughout the country. Keep in mind, also, that Thomas Jefferson was secretly advising the French at this time against his own government, and his party, if we had warred with France, very well could have supported the French rather than their own nation. Given the environment, odious as the Acts were, Adams had very little choice BUT to sign them.

[hickman1937]

37. Thank You! (Greatest, #7)

Sometimes I think I'm the only one who believes this. The older I get, the more I realise just what he was up against.

[CubsFan1982]

38. I used to put LBJ on my worst list...

Albeit usually at 9 or 10, never five worst. More and more, though, I've come to view his Presidency as more than just Vietnam, and let's face it, he did more for this country socially than anyone in the 10th century save FDR. I think the accepted historical view 20-30 years down the road will be that LBJ belongs in the pantheon of the greats.

[mermaid]

14. OK...Mouthpieces!!

Instead of just criticizing MY list, if you don't like it, then how about you post YOURS, and try to convince me why some of your candidates are more deserving than those I have selected??

I'm open enough to have my mind changed in the face of valid arguments of a reasonable nature.

So how about you put up YOUR lists...instead of just criticizing mine?

[Stop_the_War]

16. I was just pointing out the FACTS!

Woodrow Wilson was NOT a Democrat by today's standards. He crushed dissent and was a racist. Those are the actions of a Republican. How could anyone include someone like that in a top 10 best presidents list is beyond me.

[mermaid]

20. Well, I Am Not The Only One Who DID...

And, likely, for the same reason...his idealism re: League of Nations.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

18. Maybe because it's late.

I have a class in 6 hours and have to go to bed.
A list like this deserves some thought.
Don't be offended because that wasn't my intention.

[mermaid]

24. OK...So Long As You Come Back Later And Post Your Own List....

I won't be offended.

No, it was not an easy list for me to compile, either...and, quite frankly, the bootom 5 of either list is certainly up for possible revision, if facts and reasonable arguments are made in favor of...or against, some of the ones I named.

Just being a racist is NOT in my estimation, by itself, enough of a sin to strike a man from consideration. But it sure does knock them down a few pegs from where they otherwise might have been on the list!

[Stop_the_War]

25. wilson also crushed dissent...what do you think of that?

[CubsFan1982]

27. Things aren't so black and white.

You're viewing the man in the light of TWO of his actions/personality traits. We're viewing the man in the full scope of his Presidency, the good and the bad. One, or even two things are not enough to disqualify any one of these men. My list is based on their Presidencies, not their personalities.

[mermaid]

29. Exactly!

And you DID notice Woodrow was all the way down at Number Ten on my list??

The setting up of the Federal Reserve...and the founding of The League of Nations...that was very idealistic for the times, and has led to many things which we now reap the benefits from.

Again...there are aspects to wilson which knocked him down a number of pegs on my list...he'd have made top five if NOT for the racism and the crushing of dissent that he is well-known for.

However...the crushing of dissent, to a degree, I can forgive...we were LEGITIMATELY at war!!

[BlackVelvetElvis]

26. Will do!

I don't keep lists at my fingertips.
There is some serious criteria to be thought about.

[mermaid]

28. OK...Will Be Looking Forward To Your Thoughts!! n/t

[CubsFan1982]

35. kick

Similar topic being thrown around. :D

[BlackVelvetElvis]

44. IMHO-My lists

Worst:

1. Buchanan
2. Nixon
3. Bush II
4. Harding
5. Grant
6. Pierce
7. Coolidge
8. Ford
9. Fillmore
10. Hoover

Which is worse? An ineffective, untalented president (Buchanan, Fillmore) or one so corrupt (Nixon) and radical (Bush II)? Traditionally, Harding and Grant lead the list but I think they had bad taste in friends that didn't help their lack of skill.
The thing saving Nixon from being #1 was his enactment of some progressive policies (clean air act) and starting a dialogue with the USSR and China. The man had intellect and political skill. The thing saving Bush II is the lack of a smoking gun.

Best:

1. Lincoln
2. FDR
3. Washington
4. Truman
5. T Roosevelt
6. JFK
7. LBJ
8. Wilson
9. Eisenhower
10. Jefferson

Lincoln and FDR-nothing more needs to be said about them. Washington made the presidency through strength of character. Truman for implementing the Truman Doctrine and the Marshall Plan (these things made our nation great in the eyes of the world), Roosevelt for being progressive (despite his imperialist leanings) and breaking the trusts, LBJ would've been ranked higher but for a thing called Vietnam and the travesty of the Gulf of Tonkin, Wilson (despite the sedition acts and making promises he couldn't keep after WWI) for being an idealist and the League of Nations, Eisenhower for being a social progressive and giving us the interstate highway system and Jefferson for his visionary words and the Louisiana purchase.

My criteria involves a need to help the average citizen over big business, civil rights, impact on the nation-as an inspiration and in practical terms.

[CubsFan1982]

31. One other one I forgot.

For honorable mention:
Andrew Johnson (1865-9) - You wanna talk about a virulent racist?

[Dave Sund]

46. Also one of the most ineffective presidents ever

Johnson was about one vote short of being thrown out of office. Congress had him over their knee for his entire term in office.

William Henry Harrison and Benjamin Harrison are forgettable, as well.

With respect to Johnson, I can't forgive Vietnam. The disaster of that war should merit his displacement from any top ten list, imo.

With the worst, it's a question of controversial, downright disasterous, or utterly forgettable.

Frankly, Clinton can't be on any top ten list of mine, because his extracurricular activities are all that will be remembered by history, he didn't enact lasting reforms of any kind, and the only real defining characteristic of America during his presidency was a booming economy. An effective president? Yes. But does he belong on a list with the greatest of all time? Probably not.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
==================



This week is our first quarter 2005 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for
your support.

[CubsFan1982]

34. Grovelbot, where's your top 10?

The people demand to know! :D

[MasonJar]

36. My list would begin with Abe Lincoln, who was a Kentuckian by

birth. We must always keep in mind I think that everyone is somewhat a person that is influenced by his time. So an Abe in 2005 would not have the same ideas, but would have the same ideals, one would hope. The rest of my list:
Thomas Jefferson (the first American progressive)
FDR (saved the nation with his projects to put people to work)
James Madison (a great thinker and ancestor of my children) and Teddy Roosevelt (started the great wilderness acts to protect our lands.) George Washington (wouldn't become king)
Lyndon Johnson (Great Society) and Bill Clinton (brought us a surplus)
JFK (a great speaker, never know how great he might have been)
Harry Truman (at least the buck stopped with him.)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (who warned of the Military Complex, had a balanced budget and sent troops to Arkansas to save integration.)
Woodrow or Andrew or Zachary Henry Clay would have been better than any of those three. I adore Jimmy Carter as an ex-Prez. He inherited a mess and did the best he could with it,

The worst are easy:
GW "Shrub," Reagan, George, Sr., GWB again, Hoover, GWB, Reagan.

[Zomby Woof]

40. ZombyPresidents

Best:

1. Lincoln (preserved the union, with his lawyer's knowledge of loopholes)
2. F. Roosevelt (although he deserves scorn for the internment camps)
3. Monroe (peace and prosperity unprecedented in pre-Civil War America)
4. J. Q. Adams (the greatest intellectual next to Jefferson in the WH, ahead of his time, visionary)
5. T. Roosevelt (gets docked points for his hawkishness, the one trait he still shares with modern day repukes)
6. Truman (damn his creation of the NSA and CIA though, and not honoring the strike... fuck Truman, father of the neocons, come to think of it.)
7. Jackson (ok, he was an Indian-hating fuckwad, but he did take on the bankers and did more than anyone besides Lincoln to preserve the union)
8. Hayes (the Clinton on the latter half of the 19th century, minus the blue dress - peace and prosperity, baby)
9. Johnson (fuck him for Vietnam, but bless him for civil rights and everything else)
10. Clinton (if not for the Ken Starr Inquisition getting in the way, could have been the best since WW2)


Worst:

1. Pierce (bonuc points for being a pro-slavery Yankee and distant cousin of Babs Bush - maiden name Pierce, btw)
2. Buchanan (useless POS)
3. Reagan (megadittoes, freeper assholes!)
4. Coolidge (Reagan's idol, say no more)
5. Wilson (racist asshole and a phony about 'peace' and 'democracy')
6. Grant (a good man in over his head, a damn shame)
7. Harding (perhaps the dumbest LEGAL occupant in WH history)
8. Madison (an idiot - most useless and avoidable war until Iraq)
9. McKinley (Karl Rove's favorite... imperialism and privatization all the way!)
10. Hoover (another good man, but BAD ideology)

I do not acknowledge the coke-addled Chimp as a president, so he makes no lists, except the perpetual shit list.


Most Overrated Not Listed: Kennedy, Jefferson (2nd term was a disaster of immense proportions), and yes, Washington, that doddering surrender-monkey puppet of Hamilton.

Most Underrated Not Listed: Arthur, Carter, and Jefferson (1st term only).

Enemies List: Nixon and G.H.W. Bush.

[stpalm]

45. MY list

1. W
2. Harding
3. Reagan
4. Coolidge
5. Grant
6. Van Buren
7. Buchanan
8.
9.
10.


Best:

1. FDR
2. Jefferson
3. Lincoln
4.
5.
6
7. TR
8.
9. Monroe
10.



Need to think more, I will update this later

[nuxvomica]

47. Off the top of my head...

The Best

1. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
2. Abraham Lincoln
3. George Washington
4. Thomas Jefferson
5. Theodore Roosevelt
6. James Earl Carter
7. John Fitzgerald Kennedy
8. Harry S. Truman
9. William Jefferson Clinton
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson

The Worst

1. George W. Bush (by a freakin' mile!)
2. Ronald Reagan (by another freakin' mile!)
3. Richard M. Nixon (curiously, not so bad in retrospect)
4. William McKinley
5. George H.W. Bush
6. Herbert Hoover
7. Warren G. Harding
8. James Buchanan
9. Franklin Pierce
10. Ulysses S. Grant

[mermaid]

48. Interesting...Many Have Listed Wilson In Best...

A few have him in "worst" and a case has been made for me with regards to LBJ, I think LBJ may be moving into my top ten, and replacing Clinton, because, besides the booming economy, there isn't really much else, thanks to his being hamstrung by Starr and co.

McKinley certainly deserves consideration for my worst list, too...lazzez-faire capitalist muthafucka that he was!!

[WI_DEM]

49. ok, here is mine

best:
A. Lincoln
FDR
G. Washington
H. Truman
LBJ
J. Carter
W. Wilson
TR
T. Jefferson
B. Clinton

Worst:
GWB
GHWB
Buchanan
Pierce
Fillmore
Rutherfraud
Coolidge
Harding
Reagan
Nixon

[Rhiannon12866]

51. Wow! I'd rather that this was a poll, LOL!

Food for thought.:-)

[Bok_Tukalo]

54. I wanna play!

Worst:

1. Jackson (familial hostility. long story)
2. Buchanan
3. Pierce
4. Fillmore
5. Bush (GW)
6. Coolidge
7. Harding
8. Johnson
9. Tyler
10. Nixon

Honorable mention: Wilson

Best:

1. (tie) Lincoln
1. Polk
3. F.D.R.
4. Teddy Roosevelt
5. Cleveland
6. McKinley
7. Cleveland (just kidding)
7. Truman
8. Eisenhower
9. Jefferson
10. Washington

Honorable mention: Clinton

[CubsFan1982]

55. Your picks are very interesting.

Which Johnson and why?

And why does McKinley make your list of the greats? A lot of the responses have McKinley as pedestrian. What makes him stand out to you?

[Bok_Tukalo]

58. McKinley pedestrian?

He recognized the trusts for what they were and also did an admirable job in ensuring the American control of this hemisphere.

Andrew Johnson, by the way.

[CubsFan1982]

62. McKinley certainly consolidated US control of the hemisphere.

Not so sure about the trusts. Nothing really was done to enforce the Sherman Anti-Trust Act until TR came into office and went up against J.P. Morgan. I don't recall McKinley doing much to combat trusts, perhaps you can enlighten me on that?

[Rhiannon12866]

57. I'm not as politically astute as the rest of you. Can I name five?

Top five IMHO:
(1 Jimmy Carter
(2 Abraham Lincoln
(3 FDR
(4 John Kennedy
(5 Bill Clinton

Worst:
(1 George W. Bush*
(2 George H.W. Bush
(3 Ronald Reagan
(4 Richard Nixon
(5 Herbert Hoover

I probably could have come up with ten best, but ten worst alluded me.:shrug:

[Bok_Tukalo]

60. Clinton making too many top tens

Rwanda takes him out of it.

[benny05]

61. I'd add one more to the worst

Andrew Johnson