My new hard drive issues continue...

[vi5]

My original post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2444225&mesg_id=2444225

The consensus was that it was because I had my new secondary storage drive on the same IDE cable as my main one. But I know people with the same model computer and the same model hard drive who have done this with no performance issues.

Also, I got the same problem when trying to transfer the same files from my external USB drive, to the new internal one so it can't be the bottleneck issue of having both internal drives on the same cable.

Could it be a RAM issue (I currently have 512MB)? Could it be I have the pins set wrong for master/slave drives? WOuld my computer still recognize the drive even if I had the pins set wrong and would that affect performance? I placed the pin tab correctly on the secondary drive but I didn't change or add a pin tab to the primary drive. Could that be it.

Just posting this to see if the weekday/daytime crew on here have any suggestions.

[ET Awful]

1. One possibility is that you are using an older 40 wire IDE cable

instead of a newer 80 wire cable, this can cause problems with some newer drives.

It's also possible that the drive is not being recognized as an ultra ATA drive by the BIOS or the operating system. This would also slow down transfer speeds.

If the master/slave pins were incorrect, the system would most likely not boot.

[vi5]

2. Actually i did use the IDE from my computer...

Rather than the one that came with the drive. Maybe I will try that.

How can I get my system to recognize it as an ATA drive (and also what is an ATA drive?).

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

[ET Awful]

7. What OS are you using again?

If XP, go to device manager, go to IDE controllers, right click on the controller the drive is attached to and go to properties. Look in there and make sure that ATA or UDMA if Available is checked. It will normally detect a newer drive as UDMA Mode 5 or something. Older drives will show up as 1 or 2.

ATA is just a faster version of IDE to put it simply.

Basically an older drive will operate fine with either a 40 or 80 wire cable, a newer drive will operate at much slower speeds with a 40 than with an 80. You can tell by comparing a newer cable to an older one. The individual wires in the older cable will be visibly wider.

[vi5]

8. Thanks...actually an update...

In another forum and messageboard someone asked about a similar problem. It seems like their issue was that the secondary drive was set to PIO rather than DMA. So it seems like I have to switch the second drive to DMA. Not sure how I'm going to do that (something about doing it in BIOS, but I don't know what that is) so we'll see.

[ET Awful]

9. Same thing . . . UDMA/ATA

Look in BIOS and in the IDE settings in XP I referernced above.

NOTE: UDMA settings will NOT work if you are using a 40 wire cable. An 80 wire cable is required for UDMA to work.

[vi5]

10. Thanks.....how do I actually make that change?

If that is the case how do I change it to DMA? My computer is only 10 months old so i'm guessing my IDE cable is pretty up to date.

[ET Awful]

13. In the BIOS I wouldn't know without having access to the machine.

In XP, go to device manager, then to IDE controllers, look at the properties for the controller that the hard drive is connected to. Make sure that under advanced settings for the devices it says "DMA if Available"

Do this for both devices on the Primary IDE channel, then reboot.

This SHOULD fix it. No guaranties, but it's very likely.

Also, regardless of of the age of the machine, it may be using an older cable, especially if they put a lower end hard drive in the machine (which many manufacturers do to cut corners).

[vi5]

14. Thank you very much for your help....

I'm hopeful this is what it is, and if I can make the change in Device Manager in windows without having to go through BIOS (which seems more complicated) then I will be one happy camper.

[ET Awful]

15. The BIOS is PROBABLY set to auto-detect, it usually is by default

BUT, if you do have an older 40 wire cable, it wouldn't auto-detect it properly.

What kind of machine is it?

[vi5]

17. Dell Dimension 4600 Desktop

[ET Awful]

19. The cable should be fine then

I just looked at one of the newer Dimensions we have here at the office, and it has an 80 wire cable, so that should be okay.

[vi5]

20. Hi, not sure if you are still here.....

I went into System>Device Manager>IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers.

I then went into Primary IDE Channel and clicked on properties. Under advanced settings it listed the following:

Device 0
Transfer Mode: DMA when Available
Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 2

Device 1
Transfer Mode: DMA When Available
Current Transfer Mode: PIO

So it's set up to do DMA when available for the second drive but for some reason it is not doing it.

[ET Awful]

21. Hmmm, The fact that the primary drive is running in Mode 2

makes me think that you might NOT be using the right cable in there. Go ahead and swap it out for the cable that came with the drive and see what happens.

[vi5]

23. I actually got it working....

I swapped out the cable and it was still registering as PIO mode.

So I got a little bold on my own and restarted and upon start up I hit f2 and that led me to the boot menu. I went to drives and as it happens, the primary slave drive had "Off" next to it. I went to it and switched it to "Auto" and then it immediately read "Not Recognized". But when I rebooted it and went back in it listed it as DMA Mode 5 (!?!) and now what had been taking me 20 minutes to transfer now took 2. Thanks a bunch for all your help.

[ET Awful]

24. Cool . . . so we were on the right track :) n/t

[Wilber_Stool]

3. You should really post this

in the computer help and support group. It will stay on the front page for many days where all of the hot shots will get a chance to see it.

[vi5]

4. Not a donor yet so can't post it in a group...

I've gotten some good advice though. Thanks.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. The cable issue is a correct assumption.

Also, on bootup, at about the first screen, press the DEL key and drop into the BIOS. At that time, the BIOS *should* record drive settings with the new drive. Save and quit.

One more thing: Set the jumpers on *both* drives to "CS' or cable select. LEt the computer choose which is master and which is slave. The vast majority of computers can do this with no problems. Strangely, this is a dicier prospect with CD and DVD drives. Ghod only knows why.

[vi5]

6. I will try the cable thing this evening....

The computer definitely recognizes the drive and I have been able to store and pull things from it. It just moves very slowly. Strangely it didn't impact the main C: drive.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

11. You mifght want to check...

Device Manager to see if they are registered as DMA drives. If not, turn DMA on.

[vi5]

12. Thanks, that seems to be the consensus...

Can I do that just from device manager?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

16. Yeah.

Right click on the drive and go into properties.

Also, do the same with the drive controller as well.

[vi5]

18. Cool, and it will let me change it there...

I'd rather not get into this Bios thing if I can avoid it. I'm o.k. on anything I can do through Windows, but once I get into back end stuff I'm more wary.

[immoderate]

22. Had similar problem with a Dell

They said to reset the Setup. I think it was Alt-F8 fixed it.

--IMM