Okay, Now I'm In An Awkward Situation (Girl-Related)

[THUNDER HANDS]

Okay, so me and this girl went out last Friday, our second date.

We watched the fireworks over the city, it was nice and romantic. Then we get back to her place and after taking off her sexy black dress she was wearing, she changes into her pj's.

Then we lay on her bed and we watch the food network. About midway through I decide to start doing some cooking of my own (heh, heh, heh) and slowly take her.

Now, she made it quite clear that there was going to be no RBI's or triples or inside-the-park homers on this evening. So we're just kissing and stuff and then she starts to get all hot and heavy.

And I pull back. Not because I was freaked out, but because what's the point of pulling it into 5th gear if you're only going to stop short around the corner?

Then she said she wasn't sure if I had any 'fire or passion.'

THIS, my friends, is why I will never understand women.

Okay, so now she's not sure if she wants to see me again. We get along great and all, but that little moment in her bedroom kinda made her pause, I guess.

So I wrote her an email telling her that if she wasn't comfortable then she should continue her pursuit of Mr. Right and I wished her the best of luck. She said that she was 'really surprised' with what I wrote her and wasn't expecting to hear that from me.

Then she wished me the best of luck.

Now I'm wondering if she did want to see me again, but thinks I want to blow her off.

Should I write back telling her I'd still like to see her again.

Or would that be ripping apart the last shreds of my dignity?

:shrug:

[molly]

1. Why not tell her what you just told us?

:shrug:

[molly]

12. Here try this and see if you like it

but first - I had a girlfriend many years ago that was a "virgin" to each guy she ever slept with. I asked her on numerous occasions when she was going to lose it?

Dear Ms. Tease,

It was our second date and I was more than comfortable with just taking it nice and slow. To be perfectly honest, you sent mixed signals. I stopped short because I respected what you told me earlier in the evening. I do have fire and passion, but I am also a respectful person. Shall we try again?

[rjbcar27]

2. Women

are there to be loved, not understood.

Fat lot of use that phrase is to you though.

Truthfully, I don't get them either! :-) Sorry, not being much help.

[Iris]

3. sounds like she sent a lot of mixed messages

If you like to play games, this may be the girl for you.

[Loonman]

4. The day women know what they want out of "relationships"

Is the day the Red Sox win the World Series.

[supernova]

5. Ouch, mixed signals

if she made it clear beforehand that last Friday wouldn't be a home run, then you did right by stopping the festivities. Methinks she's testing you.

Personally, if I made it clear I wasn't ready, I wouldn't be going back to my place and switching to jammy mode in front of him. Talking, playing music, etc is just fine.

But yeah, just tell her what you told us.

[catpower2000]

6. You could try talking to her about this...

Maybe that's just too outlandish? :shrug: /sarcasm

Cat

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. based on very little data, she sounds like

she'd drive you insane if you were with her, anyway.

Saying one thing, doing another, and then getting mad at you for not knowing the difference?

That's a pscychotic relationship in the making that leave you forever stressed, wondering when the bomb is gonna drop becuase you never know what to do.

"No sex tonight, but I'm gonna get in my PJs and lay on the bed with you, and then get mad when you stop."

Pfagh, she might very well not be worth the effort.

[Maddy McCall]

9. Right...I agree...sounds like a controlling, manipulative person...

and I see lots of misery in your future if you opt to continue this, um, relationship.

And ALL women are not like this, so guys stop with the jabs!

[liberalhistorian]

8. Hey, I'm a woman zooming fast toward 40,

and there are plenty of times when I don't understand them either, so you're not alone, lol! If she had made it clear that she didn't want to go all the way, so to speak, then she shouldn't have taken off her dress and put on her pj's in front of you. Sounds like you're better off without Miss Mind Games.

[blondeatlast]

39. Amen, sister!

nm

[demnan]

10. She's not worth it

I agree with the others that she should have understood why you exercised restraint. After all, women have to be sensitive to men's needs if they want men to be senstive to theirs.

Sounds like you wanted to blame yourself. Don't. She's a bimbo.

[rock]

11. I'd say you like each other

Pursue it. What's the worse that could happen? (bushsucks* taking the presidency again?)


P.S. On a completely related message: what happens if I don't check the thingy at the bottom about emoticon icons in my message?

[blondeatlast]

14. NONONONONONONO . . .this woman says get the hell out!

If some girl ever treated my son like this, well, . . .

I'd tell him the same thing.

Get out--she's not comfortable with herself.

[blondeatlast]

13. Brutally honest here . . . I think she's playing you. Be nice, but move on

That thing she said about second dates, combined with this stuff; seems to me she either doesn't know what she wants or she is deliberately stringing you along (this is unlikely).

Okay, I'm a gal, been one since I can remember, and to stroll along a riverbank watching fireworks--I would have worn provocative, but casual. If she wore a sexy black dress, then pulled away from you when you made your move . . .. I mentioned a little about being "comfortable" in my reply to your earlier post and I think this is a good example--no comfort in this situation (even if you were, she wasn't).

IMHO, she has no idea what she wants.

There's better out there, this one is :crazy:

[Name removed]

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[trumad]

52. Cat...

I've wanted to say this to you for a long time... BUT I didn't because if I had to explain my somewhat misguided humor then it would take most of my day. So here it is... I am Pro-Woman, Pro-Equal rights, Pro-Gay rights, etc...etc...etc.... When I post something like the above post I try to be humorous in a sly way... I think the only way that my dumb humor works is if folks know me... This includes my non-virtual friends as well...

My friends have stopped being offended by my remarks a long, long time ago because they've figured that I'm just trying to be funny and witty. Now am I always funny and witty? Not even close! My wife's eyes are on a permanent roll and my good friends ignore half of what I say. BUT they do know my core beliefs and they do know that it's all good fun.

In this crazy ass world that we live in I always try to find a silver lining. Humor, albeit bad humor helps me accomplish it.

So Peace and thanks for sticking up for me.

Tru BTW: I still write like shit!

[catpower2000]

59. Peace back...

I think it was an accumulation of posts that you probably didn't mean in a "certain way", but I took in a "certain way". All this happened over just a few days, and an impression was definitely left with me that you liked to post derogatory things about women. I believe your explanation that it was "all in fun", and perhaps it was just that accumulation that led to my erroneous belief.

That DOES NOT mean that I condone true misogyny, and if I am offended by something you post in the future, I probably will call you on it. But what I CAN do is give you an opportunity to explain what you meant, rather than jumping to the conclusion that you meant it in a derogatory way. Fair enough?

Cat

[trumad]

63. I will never "mean it" in a derogatory way.

Never!

Tru

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

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[maxanne]

15. sounds like

she's into manipulating and game playing.

My advice is leave it alone. She may be so stunned by your response that she'll come looking for you. This sounds like a woman that is used to getting her own way - and she isn't going to like your refusal to play. It'll drive her crazy.

My advice when she comes back? Smile pretty and keep going. Avoid manipulating game players at all cost.

[OrdinaryTa]

17. Where You Made Your Mistake

So I wrote her an email telling her ...

An intimate issue like this, and you sent her a fucking e-mail? What the hell's wrong with you.

She obviously likes you a lot but she thinks you are gauche. I don't wonder where she got that impression.

[blondeatlast]

19. Hey, he needs to get out of htere fast. She's a loony.

I'd say she gave him an e-mail--then hit the delete button. No worries, MR, just get out.

[OrdinaryTa]

Just A Little Conflicted

Not loony, just a little conflicted. She thought it would happen, and it didn't. He sounds like a nice, safe guy. What a disappointment.

She basically said, "Ravish me." Then he was the one to check his watch. They might end up together because he's so controllable. She'll still wonder if she'd been better off with somebody more dangerous.

[toolfan]

18. Tsk Tsk

Always follow her lead! If she got all hot & heavy, you should have kept with it unless she wanted to stop. Women are odd, I know, I am one. But it sounds to me like your girl may have been into it, and by putting on the brakes, you might have made her feel rejected and thus put her on the defensive ("you have no passion") I've been in similar situations, and this could be what happened.

My question is, what do you want from this girl? A relationship? Sex only?

[THUNDER HANDS]

22. a relationship of course

I can get sex anytime I want. And the only reason this is bugging me so much is that I usually have a tremendous sucess ratio with the women I date.

So I'm willing to give it another go, and yes, I am a hopeless romantic. I've had my heart broken so many times I'm used to the feeling by now.

:)

[Iris]

23. he was following her lead

she said no sex at the beginning of the date. Unless she specifically said "I've change my mind. Let's get it on," then she put her date in a precarious position.

Not to mention women sending such mixed messages makes it difficult for other women who mean what they say.

[supernova]

26. Exactly, Iris

:thumbsup:

MagicRat, this girl is either a) very manipulative, or b) very young and doesn't know what she wants. You're the one to decide which is which.

Either way, you're a very decent guy and I hope you find someone equally decent. :-)

[Rabrrrrrr]

28. And Magic Rat may have saved himself a rape charge

When the woman says "No", and then steams it up into a big "Yes!" she still has the fallback, if she regrets it later, if she decides she doesn't like you any more, you stand her up, give her a wrong present, etc., to then go back and say "Well, he raped me at the beginning."

And then y'all got real problems.

Stay away from women like this.

[Iris]

29. that's kind of what I was getting at

Although I doubt a charge against him because of an unimpressive gift would get very far, who would want to put themselves through something like that just to get some? Talk about paying for a piece - might as well see a hooker. At least it's honest.

[Rabrrrrrr]

33. I was thinking bad gift as a motivator

for charging "rape" later on in the relationship.

She sounds fickle enough perhaps she'd do that.

Or any number of other reasons.

Another good reason for abstinence until marriage/serious commitment/whatever you wanna call it.

[Iris]

34. yes, I know what you were saying

and I think such a charge would not get very far but could go far enough to cause some anguish for the accused and his family.

[SoCalDem]

21. In "my day" ,girls did not entertain dates in pajamas

in bed, with the "kissy stuff"...without the knowledge that it was "going somewhere"..

For her to set "boundaries" and then cross them herself sounds kind of immature and mean..

Maybe she is not the one you are looking for..

But the 2nd date "home runs" are not the way for a lasting respectful relationship either..

Maybe you need to look around some more.. and if a girl says..no sex, then just thank her for the evening, and leave..BEFORE the pajama party...

This stuff is why it's so much nicer if you are friends with the girl and know her as a person and friend, BEFORE the romantic stuff starts..

It must be difficult these days, with all the new games :(

Things were kind of "restrained" when I was young, but we all played by the same rulebook..:)

[JackDragna]

24. You shouldn't feel guilty at all.

In my opinion, as soon as she got out of her day clothes and invited you inside, she's asking for a little more than just getting to second base. She might say that's all the farther she wants to go, but if she's getting pretty hot and heavy with you (and I trust your judgment on just how affectionate she was), then you should have called her bluff and had sex with her and not regretted it later.

There's been plenty of situations I've been in where either I or the other person don't want it to get past a certain point, yet it does. Sex is a powerful thing and if the other person touches you in the right way while just fooling around, all bets are off despite one's best efforts at self-control. This isn't a bad thing so long as neither person is coerced and both people are prepared to deal with the physical and emotional consequences.

That bit of digression aside, I do agree with most of what's been said here. Most women I know that let a man onto their bed while dressed in PJ's have their intentions clearly in mind and don't say one thing and do another. Have a good face-to-face about your relationship and its boundaries with her.

[GOPisEvil]

25. You followed HER lead, and look where it got you.

I've been in the same situation.

My solution? Dump her, forget about her and find someone who knows what they want.

I agree that going the e-mail route wasn't the best move, unless it was solely to set up a face to face discussion.

By the way, you did the right thing in honoring her stated limits. At least you have a clean conscience.

[Cheswick2.0]

27. from another perspective

why go home with a girl on the 2nd date? Don't you know that early sexual involvement creates a false intimacy in a relationship? You end up in a relationship based on sex and not on whether you really like each other or have anything in common. When you decide you don't like the person or they bore you.....it makes the breaking it off so much more complicated. What happens if she gets pregnant (it happens with Birth control too you know)?

I know this will seem like a very unliberal post to make, however I think it is the ultimate in liberal thought. Relationships should be about minds and hearts, not just gonads. This is the same thing I would say to my sons....and they wouldn't listen either.

Having said all that, this girl is mixed up. Someone needs to sit her down and give her a lecture on game playing and honesty.

You see, you were supposed to sweep her away in the moment of passion so she wouldn't have to take responsibilty in her own mind for deciding to have sex. She gets to be the good girl and say no...but have the sex later and then perhaps blame you if she has regrets. Move on MR, unless you really like this girl, she isn't worth it. If she can't even be honest about sex, how you going to trust her with anything else?

PS... just wanted to say you acted honorably. She set the limit and should have let you know that she changed her mind.

[hunter]

30. First of all...

She is a woman, not a girl!

One can only hope you are not going out with any "girl" who would wear "a sexy black dress." If she is eighteen years or older, old enough to have her own place, one must assume she is a WOMAN.

I'm just a clueless guy but I must say you've got very much to learn about women...

Until you start regarding women as your equals (or better yet, your superiors) whatever dignity you may have left (which doesn't seem to be much, since you posted this story here) will be shredded again, and again, and again...

I think you are pretty lucky. I had a friend who survived a situation similar to yours, except it happened in her car. She convinced him to get naked, she convinced him to get out of the car and "take her" outside, but then she got back into the car "to get some gel..." locked the doors and drove away, leaving my friend naked in the wilderness.

She waited about four hours before she called for his buddies to go rescue him. By that time he was very cold.

[Iris]

31. that is so f-d up!

I swear, it is really hard to be supportive of women and their right to express themselves sexually when there are women out there who would do something that fucked up.

Maybe Camille Paglia (or however her name is spelled) has some valid points.

On edit - I don't support the notion that women are "superior" to men and this little story proves it.

[hunter]

36. Am I the only one????

I was raised by women who rode big motorcycles and mean horses. I have little sympathy for Magic Rat, and even less for some of the other posters here. While I was growing up if I'd ever said some of the things I've been reading on this thread I'd be out in the corral with the other geldings.

Yes, it's a very sad thing that some women use sex as a weapon, but to me it is much more alarming that so many boys enter puberty ignorant and disrespectful of women. It's no surprise to me when their relationships go horribly wrong.

[Iris]

37. but why are boys entering puberty ignorant and

disrespectful of women? I think it's obvious that this girl is a manipulator and, if anything, she is teaching him that a woman who says "no" is really saying "yes". Why is it wrong to point out that there are a lot of different kinds of women out there? What this young woman is doing is very irresponsible.

I think that boys need to be educated about this stuff and not in a way that implicates them as always being the agressor who is out to harm a woman. Sure, there are some awful men out there, but it is obvious to me by this thread that there are some equally nasty women out there. What would you say if a woman wrote that she had to go pick up her naked friend who had been locked out of a car by her date?

[Maddy McCall]

38. No, you're not the only one...

I agree with much of what you said, and have said similar things in threads in the past...I tried to express similar sentiments to yours above, but in a much more subtle (spineless?) way.

Sounds like you have some strong women for roll models, whether you are a male or female.

I am raising my son to see women as peers...thanks for pointing that out. :hi:

[Iris]

41. so, what would you think if your sons friends brought him

home naked after being locked out of a car by a girl who led him to believe she was going to have sex with him?

[Maddy McCall]

44. That is anecdotal...very anecdotal, but since you asked...

Unlike most of us in this situation, I would want to know all of the facts before I pass judgement.

I am not one of those parents who sees my child(ren) as doing no wrong, perfect angels.

I have raised my son to the best of my abilities, but that doesn't mean that he won't ever flub up when he reaches dating age--including in the choices of women he chooses to date.

Why?? Would you go on a warpath in defense of your son before finding out all the details?

Very slick of you, to turn you hostility on me through my son simply because I don't agree with SOME of what you have said.

[Iris]

45. whatever

it's a moot point now because the person who started this thread is going back for more according to another thread he just started.

At any rate, I don't care what went down, leaving someone outdoors naked for 4 hours is absurd and if there were some circumstances that were this boy's fault, the girl should have called the police as soon as she got to a safe place.

[hunter]

57. My non-anecdotal stories are worse!

;-)

I'm "middle aged." I have two sons. I hope they know enough about women not to get into this sort of trouble...

[Maddy McCall]

58. and about themselves, right?

Sounds like you are doing a good job. I am trying my best...mine is nine...he is more of a feminist than I am! :-)

Don't believe I've said hello to you before, so :hi: hunter!

[hunter]

60. Thanks for the hello!

And yes, I do happen to have many embarassing stories about myself...

[hunter]

53. It's not gonna happen to my sons...

I'm middle aged, and happily married, but when I was young I went out with a few young women of the sort you might call "manipulator."

But the word "manipulator" sounds so mean-spirited and disrespectful, and it is this kind disrespectful attitude that leads to that awful "she (or he) was asking for it" kind of thinking.

If you go into a relationship with an attitude of trust and respect towards your partner, not just a desire to have sex, you can avoid most trouble.

Looking back, I avoided a lot of trouble by avoiding sexual relationships with people I didn't yet trust. I've told my sons that, and I hope and pray that when they find themselves in similar situations, they will remember that.

[Iris]

55. here's where we disagree

"But the word "manipulator" sounds so mean-spirited and disrespectful, and it is this kind disrespectful attitude that leads to that awful "she (or he) was asking for it" kind of thinking."

I don't think it hurts to tell the truth. I think a woman who behaves this way should be held accountable for her behavior. If women want sexual freedom, they need take some responsibility for their own actions. The woman from the original post is not only jeopardizing herself, she is also making it difficult for other young women who don't want to play games with their sexuality.

I think it's wonderful that you talk to your sons about this. Unfortunately, many young men and women do not have parents who are willing to do this and are left to navigate these waters on their own. I don't think it is that far-fetched to suggest that either sex can be equally mixed up and cause problems form one or more members of the opposite sex because of it.

[Maddy McCall]

56. Have you stopped to think that you have heard only one perspective

on this--MR's? Don't you think it would be wise to hear the other perspective before you draw such harsh conclusions about her?

Geez, give her the benefit of the doubt...they are only 24!

Evidently MR likes something about her, because her reconsidering seeing him again has caused him to change his perspective on the situation.

Seems like the point is moot now.

[Iris]

61. by the time I was 24

I had 2 friends who had been date-raped and 2 friends who were in abusive relationships - and those were just the one's I knew about. So, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be a little bit self-aware by that age.

Yes, I can see there could be two sides to these situations and probably there is enough blame on both sides, especially if young people today think the scenarios they see on reality tv are a good basis for starting relationships.

[Maddy McCall]

64. you are using people in date rape and abusive relationships to

prove that at 24 they were self-aware??? I would argue to the contrary, that immaturity or insecurity may have prevented them from seeing red flags...but we are WAY off topic now.

Good day to you, Iris.

[Iris]

65. I am saying by the time I was 24

and based on the experiences of my friends, I was aware that not everyone out in the world is looking out for your best interests and conflicting messages like saying you're not going to have sex but getting in bed with someone are a sign that something might be amiss in a relationship - the very red flags you are talking about.

I am also concerned that this woman's behavior helps contribute to the mixed messages our society gives regarding sex. If a woman wants to have sex, she shouldn't have to cloak her desires in some game of hard to get that involves saying one thing and acting in an entirely different manner.


good day to you as well jchild

My final edit - see post #66 - it says pretty much what I've been trying to say here.

[tjdee]

32. All these GAMES in TWO DATES?? Think, Magic Rat, THINK.

If you like her, and want to try one more time, okay.

But SHE IS PLAYING YOU. Two dates, two different mind trips.

First date, she's all "No guy gets a second date with me (*hint hint*)"

Now she's all "there will be no sex." Then she's all "you have no fire or passion."??? How the hell does she know ANYTHING about your fire and passion, and who insults a date on the second date??

Magic Rat....she is PLAYING YOU, or rather, she is inherently the kind of girl that PLAYS MEN. This is the kind of girl that men bitch about and then date for 2 years. She she seems a little too high on herself and has probably seen too much Sex and the City or something.

She may be hot and all that, but do you really want to play these games date after date after date? I'd try it one more time, I mean, you don't know us, and we may all be jaded assholes, but I'd really think it over. There are hundreds of great women who are cute and don't play mind games.

Also--is this the Republican?

[RobinA]

35. You Did the Right Thing

When in doubt, back up. I'd say level with this girl if you think you want a relationship. How old are you guys? In my day (I'm 45), lying on your bed, in your pjs, with a guy, means that you mean business. Things have changed a bit since then I guess, from what I hear 20-somethings saying these days.

Anyway, explain your confusion to this lady and see what happens. Maybe she changed her mind mid-date. Maybe she DOESN'T know what she wants right now. Maybe you two just have a major mis-communication going on.

Maybe she's playing you and maybe she's not, but it's too early to tell. Every person who's unsure in a realtionship is not playing a game.

[Maddy McCall]

40. Good question...

how old are you guys?

[blondeatlast]

46. 44. Mom was a hell-raiser,

and I'm a cross between Elle Woods and Susan Sarandon.

[THUNDER HANDS]

48. we're both

24 years old

[bearfartinthewoods]

43. maybe she has watched too many john wayne movies

where the virginal school marm says NO...NO...NO. until the manly cowboy overwhelms her with his passion and fire....

RUN cowboy RUN AWAY.

you want a woman who can overwjelm her own hang ups.

btw....is sex on the second date common now?

[supernova]

49. Bearfart, you are smart.

you want a woman who can overwjelm (sic - the swedish version? Lol!) her own hang ups.

[TXlib]

50. Dignity, hell!

1) You did the right thing by pulling back. She clearly told you there would be no hanky-panky. However, a girl's also got the right to change her mind. She may just have done that.

2) You should have responded to her question about 'fire and passion' directly, by telling her you were trying to respect her wishes.

3) You totally screwed up by sending the email about her continuing her pursuit of Mr. Right elsewhere. No matter your intent, she likely took it as a total dismissal, or that you were playing head games. The message of the email was bad enough, but that you sent it in email?! NEVER, NEVER, EVER express such sentiments on email! It's too wide open for misinterpretation. But enough verbal spanking...

You may well have blown it with her. The best chance I can see is to call her up, tell her you misspoke in the email, and ask if she'll join you for dinner (or coffee) so you can clear it up. Try to meet face-to-face. If she won't do that, then you'll just have to do it over the phone. If she won't even give you that, it's a lost cause. Don't humiliate yourself over email.

Tell her what you told us. You'll have an uphill battle to get past the email, but you might pull it off.

In the future, if you're trying to salvage a relationship, never express sentiments that could be taken be a remotely reasonable individual as a suggestion to part ways.

[RobinA]

68. Nah,

I don't think he blew it permanently. E-mail was not a great idea, but calling up and admitting it wasn't the best move could gain him major points. A guy admitting he may have made a mistake in the communication realm? Big time brownie points.

[Tinoire]

51. Whooa Magic Man! Try again!

Tell her you need clearer signals because she is so fascinatingly complex that you weren't sure she was certain since it was so early in the relationship. Also that flirtation and teasing is wonderful with her but you need her to understand that you respect her limits that if she wants to change them, she should clearly tell you (of course, there's no reason you couldn't have asked either). If she got all hot and heavy from all the kissing then obviously you had fire and passion. Her clumsy question, I think, was an inexperienced young woman's way of letting you know it was ok to go further and that the answer she was looking for was along the lines of "You think so? You have no idea how much fire and passion".

I don't understand all the fuss anyway. If she's not sure she wants to see you again- there are plenty of less confused fish in the sea so I wouldn't worry about it- just go fishing ;-) That was a bit tacky on her part.

If you want to see her again- give yourselves both a chance. Invite her out again and laugh about the whole thing if it comes up. Don't tell her you'd still like to see her again- just do it and ask her out. The worst that can happens is she says no and you continue onto other pastures.

Stop trying to understand women. We'll never understand you any more than you understand us so laugh, shrug your shoulders, say "Vive la difference" and just go for it.

Happy Hunting as Magistrate likes to say!

[Blue_Chill]

62. Ghaa! I am no expert but from my perspective you f'ed yourself

And I pull back. Not because I was freaked out, but because what's the point of pulling it into 5th gear if you're only going to stop short around the corner?

Then she said she wasn't sure if I had any 'fire or passion.

From where I'm sitting I agree with her. What is this nonsense about "pulling into 5th gear"? Dude if you are really into someone kissing can be better then the actual act of making love. I think perhaps she is more of a romantic then you are.

Also judging by your attitude you seem to think the point of kissing is to reach the end result of love making. WRONG and exactly the kind of attitude romantics can't stand.

So I wrote her an email telling her that if she wasn't comfortable then she should continue her pursuit of Mr. Right and I wished her the best of luck. She said that she was 'really surprised' with what I wrote her and wasn't expecting to hear that from me.

This seems to be one of two things

1- She thought you just wanted some ass, and you confirmed it by giving her the brush off. A "like it or leave it it's all the same by me" e-mail.

2- I suspect she is a romantic and wanted to be chased a little more. Wanted to feel that you actually cared about her and not just getting laid.

[davsand]

66. I pegged her as a gameplayer after that first date.

I'm saying "I told you so!" She's a gameplayer and it will be a pattern all the way thru.

She tried to impress you with her "Nobody gets a second date" speech; Then she taunts hell outta you with a trip to her bedroom complete with rolling around on her bed after the "NO sex" speech??? This little gal is either a total mess or else one hell of a manipulator. Either way you see it, she's gonna be bad news.

I am female, but I have no stomach for some of what other woman do, and this falls into that category. This is exactly how that whole "no doesn't mean no--or maybe it does" sort of crap took root.

Real women say no and mean it, and when we say yes we go with gusto...

Run AWAY!!! Run AWAY REALLY FAST!!!!

Laura

[hunter]

69. You guys are harsh....

... you don't even know this young woman!

Hey Magic Rat, good luck. Stay out of trouble, don't get pregnant (yeah, if she gets pregnant consider yourself pregnant too! ) don't pass around STD's, etc., etc.

BTW, the easiest way to stay out of trouble is not to have sex. No sex, not so much to worry about. Early on in a relationship you worry about everything, don't you? (Come to think of it, I've been married a long time and I still worry about everything! )

And heh, don't kiss and tell here anymore... there is a lot of really bad advice floating around here at DU. Write in general terms, because, yikes, I've still got that image of your young woman in her pajamas looping through my brain. Soon enough more vivid memories of my own youth will push it aside, but at the moment I'm feeling like a dirty old man.)

My advice is:

You can't run away every time you find yourself in an uncomfortable or ambiguous sexual situation. You have to learn how to handle these sorts of situations in ways that doesn't leave any serious scars on you or the other person. Basically you have to learn how to say "no" in a nice way. That skill will serve you very well your entire life.

Quite simply it is wrong to imply that anyone is a "game player," or a "manipulator," or a wanton slut, just because they've invited you to share their bed.

(edited out problem with emoticons)

[Character Assassin]

67. You decided to 'slowly take her'? Was there a ripped bodice? Swooning?

n/t

[Armstead]

70. Fun isn't it?

They do but they don't. They want to but they won't. They want to, so you do, then they get upset that you did. You don't want to so they want to. You want to but they don't, so you don't -- but then they want to and they wonder why you don't....It all gets so confuzzin.

In fairness, I'm sure men are just as baffling to women.

But I decided a while ago that games are for the schoolyard. So I decided that if it isn;t clear and straightforward, I'm not going to get involved.

Of course, I've forgotten that resolution more than once since then.