Have you ever deliberately ever killed another human?

[Nile]

I have, Vietnam 1970. I was one of the hunted as much as I was also hunting them. I actually had a price on my head. I am still alive so I would imagine that I must have won the game physically anyway. Mentally I am not so sure,

[CO Liberal]

1. May I Be The First To Say....

..."Thank You."

A 4-F classification was the only thing that kept ME out of 'Nam. I totally disagreed with the war, but I never had a problem with those who served. My problem was with the higher-ups - like Nixon.

They can never fully compensate you for the memories you're force to carry for the rest of your life, IMHO.

Wayne
(CO Liberal)

[DrWeird]

4. Why?

nt

[CO Liberal]

7. I Know a Lot Of Men...

...who are still haunted by their experiences in Vietnam. And many of them were called "baby killers" when they returned.

As I said above, I never had any problem with those who served. As I never had a problem with those who moved to Canada, or did whatever else they thought was the right thing to do.

That's all.

[ohiosmith]

9. Not my intention to be incendiary, but, the "baby killer" horse shit is

just that. I have yet to hear from a single Viet Nam era vet that he/she ever personally, or heard another vet called baby killer or any words to that effect. Those stories were all anecdotal and spread by the RW.

[CO Liberal]

15. I Remember Them Happening

Back in the '70s. Guys went to 'Nam to do a thankless job and got shit upon as a result.

I found the following through a Google search. It's a web site for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial of Greater Rochester (http://www.vietnamemorial.org/resource_center/aftermath.html):

THE AFTERMATH The Vietnam War was so painful that, with the signing of the Paris Peace Accords and the withdrawal of the last US forces in 1973, many Americans went into a trance of amnesia. Even before the final collapse of the Saigon government in 1975, Americans somehow resolved simply to forget Vietnam. Returning Veterans were often ridiculed, ignored, or simply scoffed, and Vietnam became a taboo topic surrounded by an unspoken collection of silence.

There are some events that overwhelm history; Vietnam is one of them. Vietnam was a war with no clear-cut winner. Yet Vietnam played a role in history leading toward the fall of communism in the Soviet Union. After Vietnam, the USA showed resolve in the military way in which the Gulf War of 1990 was conducted. The returning Gulf War Veteran was welcomed home by volunteers, many of whom were Vietnam Veterans.

Vietnam Veterans went to Vietnam alone and came home individually, not as a part of a unit as in WWI, WWII and the Korean War, where support and camaraderie were usually available. They came home to a country that was violently divided over the war in Vietnam. The returning soldier came home after a 12-month tour of duty aged beyond their average age of 19 years, and they were frequently ostracized for participating in the war. Many unexpectedly faced barriers in their relationships with family and friends. Vietnam Veterans who needed and sought professional help were often misdiagnosed and mistreated, because mental health professionals have no diagnosis or treatment for the Veteran with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

Gradually, Americans here came to appreciate the price paid by the Veterans who returned, their families, and those who died or are missing in Vietnam. Many continue to pay the price by suffering from PTSD. Since the end of the war, suicides have dramatically outnumbered the 58,184 who were killed in combat. Many continue to suffer from premature deaths and disabilities due to the lingering effects of exposure to Agent Orange, jail time, homelessness, substance abuse, recurring pain from wounds, or the constant ache of loved ones gone from their lives.

[ohiosmith]

23. All true. No mention of the "baby killer" label however. You "remember"

what happening? Did you personally ever hear anyone call a Viet Nam vet a baby killer?

[CO Liberal]

26. Not Within Earshot of Me

But you have to agree that the returning Vietnam vets were not treated the same as the returning WWII vets, right????

[ohiosmith]

30. You didn't hear it because it didn't happen. The baby killer crap

was a creation of the RW assholes (and their propaganda machine) that supported the war for political and economical reasons and needed ways to discredit those of us who really had the best interests of our troops at heart. The same assholes who would later shit all over the same people they had put in harm's way.

[CO Liberal]

32. The RW Propaganda Machine Didn't Exist 30 Years Ago

[ohiosmith]

33. Spiro Agnew, John Mitchell, Henry Kissinger, Lawrence Eagleberger,

Charles Colson, John Wayne, Bob Hope, Dr. Billy Graham, Ronny Raygun. Just a few of the scumbags who regularly attempted to discredited the anti-war movement with accusations that we didn't support our troops. And while we're talking about it, the Hearst media outlets that published the never substantiated stories about VN vets being accosted and abused in airports and bus stations by hippies, yippies, long hairs, freaks, and various other counter culture types.

[CO Liberal]

41. That Still Doesn't Change The Fact...

...that some Vietnam vets got a lot of shit when they returned.

[Nile]

21. Not incendiary.

Never hunted another who was not around my age at the time (19-20). Baby killers were something that rarely happened. Mostly by indirect fire from Air Force or artillery.

[Branjor]

27. A friend of mine....

who's boyfriend served in Vietnam told her the stories of being spit on and called "baby killer" are true.

[ohiosmith]

31. Why is it those stories are always 2nd and 3rd hand? I've known

dozens of VN vets and not one has ever told me that they were the recipient of such treatment.

[CO Liberal]

43. Just Because YOU Didn't Hear It First-Hand....

...doesn't mean is didn't happen to someone.

[cleofus1]

50. that's so much crap...

urban legend at best...if some hippy fuck spit on a GI that hippy fuck would proceed to get his ass kicked in short and brutal fashion...yeah right, meek little ariborne rangers being terrorized by long haired sandal wearing hippies...get a grip...I was alive back then and in the military right after vietnam and never met a soul who this happened too...i knew people that got in some bar fights, but never any poor shrinking violet GI...if some one even spit in the vicinity of the GI's I knew...there would be some serious bullshit going down. I remember my uncle Tommy throwing a guy thru a storefront plate glass window just becouse the dude started making racist comments about tommy's wife. Tommy had been home from vietnam less than two months...not a smart move on that dudes part.
So now the urban legend says poor defenseless GI's were being terrorized by hippies....geez loueeeez! who actually believes this crap...maybe it happened in a movie and now everyone believes it happened in real life...i call this the "Reagan Syndrome"....

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. No I haven't. I'm sorry you had to ..and I do believe if you went you had

to.

[Cuban_Liberal]

3. Yes, In Afghanistan. n/t

[Jack_Dawson]

12. You fought in Afghanistan?

:shrug:

[Padraig18]

28. Yes, he did. n/t

[Jack_Dawson]

45. But...

Isn't CL...nevermind I have too many questions. Can I PM you?

[Padraig18]

46. Surely.

PM away.

:)

[China_cat]

5. No, I haven't

but I seriously considered it when I was married to an abusive husband and probably would have if I hadn't been offered a way out when I was.

[Nile]

8. Not a good situation.

But defiantly not worth killing another.

[eternalburn]

13. ditto....

....unfortunately :(

[Zuni]

6. I would have had I been in your situation

I wouldn't have liked it, but you do what you have to do in a war zone

[Mr. McD]

10. No personal confirmed kills but

I was a part of search and destroy teams in Viet Nam that were responsible for many deaths. (Cobra's, OH6, and Huey's).

[meti57b]

11. every time our country goes to war we are *all* taking part in killing

someone. Even though we are against the war, we are still part of killing people. That is why we need to do everything we can to get out of this war! We need to not get into another war unless there truly is no other alternative. When our country goes to war, we are *all* killing someone. The fact that we have a military to pull the trigger for us doesn't mean the rest of us have not actually done the killing.

[Nile]

14. You have no clue what it is like yo kill your brother.

Peace be with you.

[sir_captain]

19. Utter nonsense

please spare us the self-righteousness

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

20. Sure

And we have hundreds of thousands of killer toddlers.

[Comicstripper]

29. Bullshit

This guy who fought in 'Nam killed someone. I have no idea what that feels like. Hope I never have to. And you don't know how it feels either.
You don't honestly believe that you feel as guilty as someone who has had the unfortunate duty of taking another life?

[American Tragedy]

47. More pointless, self-righteous, collective guilt bullshit, I see

Like many American progressives, I've struggled and wept and invested far more of my time and my emotions into American politics and foreign policy than most people, even when I knew it was virtually hopeless. News of the war and the apparent decline of our country have haunted and devastated me for years.

I protested the war in the rain and cold for hours. I wrote dozens of letters to legislators and the White House. I and others argued and screamed at militant freepers and Hell's Angels in a twenty-hour stand-off that required an assigned police presence. But of course, that wasn't enough. Sorry. Tried my best.

Despite all of this, people like you imply that we are guilty by virtue of sharing the same national origin as others who do evil. We're obligated to fucking apologize for aspects of our identity that were set before we were even born.

Even if I wanted to, I cannot change my nationality any more than I can change my race or gender. Therefore, meti57b, I'll accept responsibility for what I've said and done, not for who I am, thank you very much.

[Carson]

51. Excellent post. Someone needs to supply the same logic

to the "fuck the South" threads where we Southerners are still blamed for ancestors owning slaves.

[HEyHEY]

49. I've never killed anyone.....but....

There is a MAJOR difference between your answerr and the question.

[micrometer_50]

16. Welcome Home nt

[Taverner]

17. No and I really have no idea

...what it would be like to weigh that on my concience. How does one get over it? Does one ever?

I imagine its inconceiveable until you actually have to do it..

[catbert836]

18. Not deliberately n/t

[TX-RAT]

22. Us Army 69-72 , 21Yrs sheriffs department.

What a strange question.

[oneighty]

34. Yes it is

a very strange question. One that really has no qualified answer.

180

[meisje]

24. Well what do you think jr. You think these hands have been soaking in

ivory soap their whole lifes!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. I can't believe there's no "just to watch him die" smartass post yet (nt)

[paula777]

35. what does n/t stand for?

[rbnyc]

36. No Text

It means there's no message beyond the subject line, so there's no need to click on it.

Unless you want to see their avatar. I see you picked the one I made. Cool!

:hi:

[paula777]

37. Are you kidding me, you made this avatar? Wow, very impressive!

and thanks for telling me what nt means. It was driving me crazy.

[rbnyc]

39. You're welcome...and thanks!

Check into the peace kitty thread you just inspired.

:)

[Xithras]

38. Shot? Yes. Killed? No.

But not for lack of trying. Two lung shots too...the guy is breathing today by sheer luck and because of a quick ambulance. Someone I loved dearly was getting raped at knifepoint, and I shot the rapist twice in the back.

I've never regretted taking those shots, but I don't envy you or anyone else who's had to take a life. Standing there listening to the guy fight for breath and his life while he drowned in his own blood was disturbing in ways I'd never thought about. He deserved to be shot, but actually watching him die (so I thought, at the time) and knowing that I DID THAT was...wrong in ways that I just can't put into words.

[Bouncy Ball]

40. Nope, never.

I wish you peace.

[Turn CO Blue]

42. Thank you for your service.

My uncle once sat up late with me one night and described his first day in Vietnam...I recall that it involved loading bodybags back onto the helicopter. I just can't imagine what you all went through.

I sincerely hope that we have learned to separate our disdain for the war from the warrior.

[RagingInMiami]

44. One of the most memorable quotes

from Fahrentheit 911 was when the soldier said, "everytime you kill someone, you kill a little piece of yourself."
That is how I imagine it would be to kill another person in a war, whom you know is just another pawn in the game like yourself.

[rug]

48. Nope

And nobody should be in that position.

"There are many causes worth dying for and none worth killing for."
Albert Camus