DU moms: how old is "old enough" for full makeup and adult clothes?

[jmowreader]

Yesterday at dinner my wife picked up the "Saturday Extra" section of the newspaper, looked at the cover, and started screaming about how terrible some parents are.

"Okay, what's the problem?"
'Look at this picture and tell me what you think the problem is?'

I looked at the picture. I saw an attractive 23-year-old woman looking at a Christmas ornament at one of the holiday fairs we have around here. She had on a nice high-neck sweater, neatly French-braided hair, very well-applied full makeup--foundation, eyes, blusher, lined lips filled with mauve lipstick--and a neat manicure. She looked ready for work in a nice business.

"I don't know. She looks kinda conservatively dressed, like maybe she just got off work. What is the problem?"
'Look at the caption!'

It read "Julie Jones (not her real name), 10, shops for Christmas ornaments at a local holiday fair."

Well, now I see the problem.

Okay, moms of DU, would you have allowed your 10-year-old to dress this way? And how old do they need to be before they do?

[leftofthedial]

1. It is grotesque--borderline pedophilia

we are consuming our own youth

Let them (make them if need be) be children until they aren't children anymore.

[solinvictus]

16. Jon Benet Ramsey...

I agree, when I saw her picture and pageant videos on the news back in 1996, I reflected that such things are a pedophiles dream. We sexualize our kids far too young and I'm sick of it. When 10-12 year old girls wear low-rider jeans that show their thongs (which is another damned issue!), we've gone too far as a society.

[jmowreader]

36. This wasn't a JonBenet look

More like this (this isn't the picture in question; this one came from Saks Fifth Avenue's website and is here just for illustration):



Like I said, until I saw that she was ten I thought this was how she dressed for work.

[retread]

52. borderline?? n/t

[China_cat]

2. 70 might be old enough.

But only for low heels and light makeup and if they aren't single dating.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Since

I wear no makeup, dress in jeans and long sleeved shirts or a sweater, and have never had a manicure, any kid I would have had wouldn't have looked like the one pictured, nor would they want to. Inner beauty and character are worth more than outward appearances.

[madmax]

4. I agree with your wife

Ten is way too young. Let kids be kids!

Reminds me of Jon Benet Ramsey. :(

[CO Liberal]

5. How About Junior and Senior Prom?

I always thought those were traditionally the first events for that. But maybe I'm old-fashioned.

[barackmyworld]

6. I'm not a mom but...

that is WAY too young! I don't think it's something that can be fixed by moms banning girls from wearing it, though. The problem is that increasingly younger and younger girls think that they need makeup to be "pretty." Simply telling your child they can't wear it will make them feel excluded, different, and plain. Why do I say this? I'm 19, and luckily the makeup age didn't set in until high school for me. My mother voiced her objections, but let me wear some sparkly eye shadow (that was basically it until I was 17 or 18).

Call me crazy, but I think the mail culprit is GLITTER. It's like a gateway drug that leads into the harder stuff (mascara, etc)!

[warrens]

55. Hahaha, gateway drug

My daughter is 14 and wears a BIT of makeup from time to time. Mainly sparkly stuff and some pancake when she has a zit. And sometimes lipstick.

She had a classmate who used to come to school in full makeup, leather miniskirts, high heels, the whole bit. At 9.

[gollygee]

7. I don't see the problem with the sweater and french-braided hair

or is that freedom-braided? LOL

Anyway, kids clothes basically look like adult clothes. I don't like kids wearing sexy clothes, but a high-neck sweater doesn't seem particularly sexy. And French braids don't seem adult either.

I agree about the makeup though. I don't understand why kids that young, with perfect beautiful skin, would wear makeup- particularly foundation - anyway. I have a friend with a 13-year-old daughter who wears a ton of makeup. She has perfect 13-year-old skin. I don't get it. If I had skin like that, no makeup would ever touch me - I would want to show off my radiant skin!

10 is so young. I guess I can see a little play makeup for dress-up, but not for everyday use and not real makeup like that.

[Mist]

8. 12 or 13 for VERY light makeup

a -touch- of blusher and _pale_ lip gloss.

[Catch22Dem]

9. I give my 10 year old girl, JUUUUUST enough to feel a little independent

The only make-up she wears is for play. She might wear some of that colored lipbalm out of the house, but she just looks like a little girl playing with lipstick. As far as clothes, the most "grown-up" attire she has comes from Limited Too.

ON EDIT: By the way, I agree with gollygee on the hair and sweater. Certainly nothing wrong (sexy) with a high-neck sweater, and French braided hair.

[nini]

10. it was 16 for us

and that was just a bit of lipgloss and blush.

I can see 14 these days, but 10 is ridiculous.

[bobthedrummer]

23. 14 or fight!

:yourock:

[madaboutharry]

11. It is very regrettable

and somewhat horrifying to me when I see young girls being pushed like this. I think it has a lot to do with a vicarious need for some women to turn back time through their daughters. If you really think about it, it is kind of sick. As a parent, I just shake my head in disbelieve at the way some girls in Middle School are encouraged to dress. The point of sexy clothing and make-up is to attract attention in a sexual way. Why would a parent want someone looking at their 11 or 12-year old that way?

[esvhicl]

12. High school?

I say attendance at high school would be a good marker for allowing your daughter to wear makeup. But make sure that she uses natural products and throws away mascara after six weeks. And I'm not too sure that fingernail polish is healthy for anyone at any age. I get a numbness after using it. I say if you can't drink it, don't put it on your body! Nail buffing is just as nice!

I live in LA and the style that is most "provocative" is the low slung jeans with all the "belly-baring". And some of these girls have huge stomachs! But I've come around to thinking how healthy it is in a way that the young girls don't seem to have a hang-up about their bodies and aren't anorexic or bulimic or something.

Have you seen those millenia old goddess figurines with the HUGE bellies? Now I just call it the "re-emergence of the goddess", when I see pouchy teen. LOL.

[Florida_Geek]

13. Ok I am male and not a father so flame me

but IMHO it should be up to the child not the adult as in the Ramsey case. And this goes for boys as well as girls. Kids should be ABLE to dress like their peers if they want to Boys should be able to have their hair any way they want. (ex military brat in me's opinion).

IMHO most 10 yo will dress like a 10 yo.

(off putting on my Flame proof cloths)........ :evilgrin:

[sariku]

34. I just don't agree

and no flames neccesary. :)

For one thing, at ten, there is a LOT of pressure to be "grown up". I see a lot more of what can be termed "wordly influence" on ten year olds nowadays as compared to when my oldest was that age. It's really shocking.

Secondly, I've seen the result of "let them make all the decisions themselves!" My ex has used that theory. With sad results. For example, he felt that our oldest should be able to make her own decisions, because if she doesn't learn it now, she'll never learn it (His words). The result was that she oftentimes didn't do her homework and instead learned that she could be "sweet" and convince her teachers to cut her a break on late assignments. Great lesson, eh? She also chose to oftentimes go out on school nights - sometimes driving as far away as Seattle (3 hrs) for a concert.

The thing is, kids don't magically learn how to make decisions. It's a process. My ex's attitude is akin to believing that the way to teach a kid to swim is by dumping them into the water.

[jmowreader]

37. This wasn't a "dress like your peers" look

Ten-year-olds seem to like real bright, sparkly makeup, which this wasn't.

After my wife got done screaming about the kind of parents who would let their kid out of the house dressed like this, she commented that this looks like something her mom put on her. It was WAY too precise to have been done by a 10-year-old hand.

[Florida_Geek]

39. more mother paid for a Glamor Photo with makeup in a

mall.

[Book Lover]

14. Are you sure she wasn't made up for the photo shoot?

That's my first thought; frankly I can't see a 10-year-old sitting still for long enough to have that kind of face work done on a regular basis.

All that said, however, as a mom my opinion is that nobody needs foundation, especially someone with 10-year-old skin! And no 10-year-old needs to have full eye and lip work done. I guess I see makeup as a concealer and so I'm more puzzled than outraged. But there's a bit of outrage too; the parents didn't have to give in to her whining (I'm guessing here) that she wanted to wear makeup like a grownup. Full disclosure: I wear it rarely to never myself.

[CO Liberal]

29. My Daughter Had Her Picture in the Local paper at Age Ten

With absolutely no makeup.

[jmowreader]

38. This looked like a "grab shot" taken at a holiday fair

Holiday fair=event where Christmas ornaments, mulled cider, small gift items, etc., are sold by the people who made them.

It didn't look like a "photo shoot" setup. With caveat that a good photo shoot setup doesn't look like they did it on purpose, I don't think the kid was made up just in case someone took a picture of her for the paper.

[sariku]

15. Eew!

Heh, I have THREE daughters. Life has been an adventure. I LOVE having girls. Never a dull moment. Hell, I could write a book solely on the asinine things they argue about (not putting them down, I usually find it somewhat amusing - 30 minutes to argue over a one inch ball. Between a 9 yr old and a 15 yr old).

Our rule on makeup has always been that when you enter high school, you can wear makeup. It gives the girls a definite time-line, so they can just say no to bugging me about it. They know that if I see something I don't like, I will say something about it. And in the long run, it's better to put on your own makeup than have mum put it on for you. They really hate that! But seriously, they know that I will respect their choices with makeup unless they go around the bend. Because they know me and my likes and dislikes, they have a good idea of when is too far. My girls really aren't into lipstick, it's always been about the eyes.

On clothes, we occasionally have some issues. Here is one thing that happened recently. Our rule on skirts is: must be longer than your fingertips. I know, I know, such a cliched rule - but hey, it works. First, my kids do not have a natural grace in short skirts. So really short ones just won't work. Secondly, they are the same rules for school. And what's the point of having a skirt that you can't wear to school? So last weekend my 15 yr old was with her dad. They'd gone shopping and she had used her own money to buy two skirts. One long, one short. When my ex brought her home, he told me that he thought the skirt was too short. I said "Then why did you allow her to buy it?" "Because it's her money." Yeah, well, this is my house, and there are rules. Which he knows - but hey, if you can push the enforcement of those rules off on someone else, it's all good, because he's all about being the "Good Guy".

Long story short, I had her try on the skirt and it wasn't too short. I was fine with it. She asked me what would have happened if it was too short. I asked her if she still had the receipt. She wasn't happy, and said "But I bought it with my own money!" I just told her, look, I'm happy that you're willing to spend your own money on your clothes, but you know what the rules are. Do you think rules go out the window because you can buy it yourself?

With jeans, I'm ok if the belly is showing as long as they aren't going to school - because I am definitely not leaving work to go to school to pick them up because they aren't following dress code. If I see a) your ass, or b) your underwear, then your jeans are TOO LOW.

[Political_Junkie]

18. So glad I have a son.

I grew up in a family of girls, so I know first hand what you are talking about. I agree completely with your rules for your daughters, wish my mom had set rules for us girls. It would have made things much less complicated, but instead she seemed to grow more lax with each girl down the line.

[cindyw]

20. Agree with completely except that I remember eyeliner and mascara

being all the rage on Junior High. That and some lip balm.

Also, I love the ass and underwear rule, I feel the same way in public. If I can see crack then you cannot wear those pants. The underwear out of the pants thing only looks right in a strip club.

[sariku]

32. LOL!

<i>The underwear out of the pants thing only looks right in a strip club.</i>

OMG so true, but so funny. My oldest daughter turned 18 this month. She graduated from high school last year. She is extremely liberal, and extremely outspoken. She has some scathing words for the fashion tendencies of her fellow high school students.

[cindyw]

43. Seriously the height of your pants must directly correlate to the size

of your ass. Almost no one has a body for low pants.

[L84TEA]

17. Here is the problem,

My daughter would dress like that if I let her.
She is 10. Here is the answer, she is not allowed. LMAo.
I am her Mother and I do believe little girls like to experiment and slowly learn girlie things. Yet, in our home is one thing, dressing that way in public NO frickin way!
I believe childhood goes to fast the way it is, if these little girls are going to be prancing around like women they are more vulnerable to stereo types and scary perverted men. (who may use this behavior as an excuse to harm a child)

[cindyw]

19. 10 year olds should only wear make-up for performances

like dance and drama.. If this girl knew she would be posing for some picture or something it is really okay. Maybe she was in a beauty pagent at some mall and the photographer was taking pictures of the girls. On all other occassions girls should look their age. Mostly for the sake of not getting hit on by older men.

Once a girl hits high 8th grade she should learn the difference between night make-up and day make-up. Heavier make-up for certain occassions is okay. If a 16 year old wants to dress a little older and wear more make-up it is fine if she is going to be around 16 year olds. Now a 16 year old looking 18 around older men is dangerous since most 16 year olds don't have the sense to leave the older men alone and tend to lie about their ages. I know I did.

[SarahB]

21. No makeup for 10 year olds.

My daughter is almost 13 (and taller than me). We share clothes too at times (but not all). She has been wearing a little makeup since she started middle school last year. We don't have specific rules, but she also knows her father and I have veto power if anything is inappropriate. I believe in being honest with children. I explain to her that dressing in certain ways conveys an image of sexual maturity and since that's not where she's at, she shouldn't dress in certain ways. She can pass for 16 or 17 (and I can still pass for mid 20's so we do look more like sisters when we go places) and she's most definitely not ready for certain male reactions and she knows it. High school boys sometimes (not knowing her age) will hit on her. She's a tough cookie though and yells, "I'm only 12 you moron." Gotta love that girl. :D

[hippiechick]

22. 17, probably

Although I'm 38 and never wear full makeup.
I hate that 'fake' look. :)

HippieKid is 13 and she uses lip gloss, but that's all.


:hippie:

[yellowdogintexas]

24. At 10, my daughter was still a jeans and sweats kind of gal

climbing trees, jumping fences, building forts in the alley and getting her into a dress for Sunday morning was a real trip.

and boy did she hate the makeup for her dance recital.

I feel very lucky in that regard. That was just her interest at that time. Her best friend was quite the tomboy and that worked out fine.

she's 20 now and wears what she wears and looks pretty good most of the time. Of course she is a tattoo artist and piercer, but she dresses fairly professionally as she says she gets much more respect and better tips! learned that on her own.

Makeup did not really interest her much until she was about 15. (Except for Halloween!


age 10



Halloween 2003

age 16 with cousin (cousin has red hair, my daughter is on the right)

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

25. YIKES!

10????? Um, no. My reasoning is this: we have the rest of our lives to be adults, but the time that we are children are fleeting. Why rush things?

[Phentex]

26. well no offense but

I'm just amazed at your description! My husband wouldn't know to use the words foundation (face stuff) blusher (red stuff on cheeks) lined lips (WTF?) mauve (reddish color) much less notice a manicure in a picture. Damn, you're good!

But yes, I agree it's all over the top for a ten year old. Ick!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

27. I was pretty amazed too!

LOL! My husband would have just called it "makeup."

[jmowreader]

48. Your husband is not me

I used to volunteer in the community theatre in Berlin, doing mostly sound and carpentry. On one show we did, I was painting some scenery with real fine lines freehand...the woman who ran the makeup room saw me doing that and asked if I'd like to learn makeup because the show had forty people in it, half of whom couldn't do their own makeup, and she was recruiting everyone who could hold a brush. So I learned makeup; why not?

When I got back to the states I set up a little deal doing glamour photos of people I knew; one of them introduced me to her sister who I later married. (We still are.)

Before we got married we were living in her sister's house; on the morning of our wedding my then-fiancee went to the bathroom to do her hair and makeup and we found out that her sister's boyfriend had left so much shit strewn all over the vanity, the toilet tank top, the bathtub rim and all of the shelves that there wasn't a flat spot to put anything. So she storms downstairs in a huff, sticks her makeup case and her hair products in my hands, and says "here, you do this." I did. No problem.

After we moved down here, my first job was working as a photographer at Glamour Shots, where there were several occasions when the place was backed up enough that the head makeup artist or the manager would tell me to forget about the camera room and open up a makeup station instead. I do NOT like the Glamour Shots system; it is all based on time-motion studies and there is a time limit for everything. You get 30 minutes for makeup, 15 for hair, 15 to choose outfits, 15 to take 16 photos in four different outfits (four poses per outfit) and 15 minutes to sell the photos. I was working on this one woman with some pretty severe port-wine stains on her face. It's possible to cover them up, given the time, and based on a quick evaluation (Prada shoes, expensive handbag and a Mercedes-Benz key on her keychain) I figured that taking the time would prove lucrative. And we were fairly quiet anyway; there wasn't a big line out the door. So I spent about two hours getting her looking as perfect as I possibly could, and wound up with about a $1000 portrait order, she was so happy. My reward for getting us a thousand dollar sale was a write-up for taking longer than the standard allowed. So the heck with that.

I've been tasked to do Little Miss Whatever contestants before. I did two and refuse to do it any more. These kids are serious little prima donnas; they will criticize everything you do and everything you don't do. The first one I did I chose all the shades, did the work and got my ass chewed by an 8-year-old because "I don't like this. You're a bad man." Then I got a look at the other contestants; they all looked about the same and my little pain-in-the-ass won the thing. The second one I had pick the shades I used. I put it all on her. "I don't like this. I don't like the colors. Do it again." So I cleaned it all off her, had her pick different shades and she didn't like them either. The third time I picked the shades, put them on her...she liked them but "why didn't you let me pick the colors?" Well, maybe because you picked them twice and hated them both times once they were on your face. This kid's mom called me about a month later..."Can you do my daughter for the Miss Crab Louse pageant?" No, I'm going to be busy that day...and I was too, drinking beer, watching a race and not getting my ass chewed by a kid who's younger than some of my cats.

The only makeup I've done recently has been for advertising shoots, and around here they like it pretty light. I did a job for Merck--the pharmaceutical company. We were printing posters showing the various uniforms worn in the production areas at Merck plants, and the customer had one big request: make sure no one looks like they're wearing makeup, because you can't wear it in the production area. The obvious way to deal with this problem is to not use any, but that's not an option--not if you don't want them looking pasty white. It's doable, and it takes almost no time at all. I've also done some t-shirt ads for collegiate magazines, and that is fun.

The only problem with doing makeup around here is that the only steady gigs that pay money are commissioned sales jobs at the department stores, and Jim doesn't do commission on that product in this town because he can't afford to gamble that heavily. In Raleigh I'd do it in a second--commissioned cosmetics salespeople in the Triangle make excellent money. In Fayetteville, the only people who stay with it for very long are married to high-ranking Army officers and don't really need the money.

I like doing makeup, I'm good at it and if I could find a makeup job that paid enough to live on, I wouldn't be selling wood for a living. But...in this town there isn't one. So...want some wood?

(Oh, and since you were asking about lined lips: you use a lipliner pencil to outline your lips then fill them in with brushed-on lipcolor. It is mainly there to keep the lipcolor from bleeding past the edge of your lips, but a side benefit is a nice sharp edge to your lipstick. It looks good, but once again it's not something you'd expect to see on a 10-year-old.)

[Left Is Write]

28. 35.

No, just kidding!

I don't think little girls should be treated or dressed like mini-adults. They are NOT adults. Period.

Of course, most little girls enjoy playing dress up and pretending to be grown up. That's normal. I just don't like the idea of "playing dress up" spilling over into the child's daily life and becoming her norm.

At ten? If she wanted it, I'd allow something like Bonne Bell lipgloss or the little pots of lip gloss that come with toys like Strawberry Shortcake. There is no way my 10-year-old daughter would be wearing full makeup, especially foundation and eyemakeup, unless she was about to take the stage for some kind of theatrical performance.

14 or 15 is soon enough for full makeup. I still don't like it when young girls are overdone, though. Less is more, especially when you're young.

I wish kids could just be kids for as long as possible. Maybe I'm a crotchety old so-and-so, but it just seems like every year kids get more and more sophisticated at younger and younger ages.

[SoCalDem]

30. As soon as you are comfortable with her being ogled by adult men

and being hit on by them :(

[BoX o BooX]

31. A Brief Interlude:

Blessings and kudos to those women who don't pluck, shave, paint and/or curl. You're the real beauties. I mean this. You are setting the best example for future generations.

We (society) demand that women infantilize themselves by plucking and shaving body hairs, then we demand that they paint and curl anything remaining.

This is all bullshit.

Soap, water and shampoo are all anyone needs to have healthy skin and hair. Toothpaste and floss for the teeth. A pleasing, understated scent is not inappropriate.

That is all.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

42. Wow

that's a truly refreshing thing to hear.

I do pluck and shave and I get my hair colored every six to eight weeks, but I only wear minimal makeup (and only to work) and beyond that, I don't much bother.

It was nice to read your words. What a breath of fresh air.

[BoX o BooX]

44. It was my pleasure.

Feel free to decline to respond, but: why DO you pluck and shave? Is this a natural impulse? Or were you conditioned?

I'm just asking.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

45. Conditioning, totally.

Last summer I toyed with the idea of no longer shaving the pits. And I think I still might. No one cares, really. And I'm really not a hairy person (lot of Native American blood).

And just for the record, in the winter, the legs RARELY ever see a razor. No one sees my legs in the winter anyway!

The plucking is for the eyebrows, or I would look like I had a giant unibrow.

Definitely conditioning. I grew up in Dallas in the 70s and 80s as the daughter of a former beauty pageant queen. I didn't stand a chance!!!!

But, I definitely do far less than my mother ever did and I can see my daughter getting away from it even more. After all, my mother didn't leave the house without makeup on and set her hair in rollers all the time. She wore LIQUID eyeliner and false lashes, two things I've never done. And I only wear light makeup to work. The rest of the time? Screw it, I can't be bothered. So generationally, it's getting better, LOL!

[BoX o BooX]

50. And this is the behavior I wished to encourage.

We did not become a decadent society overnight; we shall not become a holy society in a day.

Now excuse me while I drink a Bud, smoke a Marlboro, and check my AOL, MSN, Yahoo! and G-Mail.

[Runcible Spoon]

46. hmmm..add conditioner to the list and that's about my routine...

I got the biggest compliment of my life when I was a bridesmaid at my sister's wedding last fall...I was freaking out, thinking I have to wear this formal dress (actually not that bad, very tasteful) and I have to put on full-whore makeup for the photos and get my hair yanked up and sprayed up stiff! Well, the cosmetician told me "wow you've got such naturally vibrant features, we don't have to put much at all on you", thereby affirming my belief that I look like a $10 hooker with a lot of makeup. So I got by with just a touch of eyeshadow and lipstick. I'm 24, and I've never had foundation on before, wouldn't know what to do with it. Now it's just lipstick and eyeshadow for formal occasions, though I do ahve a scent that I like, in subtle amounts.

[Left Is Write]

47. Well....

But we also get mixed messages.

Today, there is a message from you about not plucking, shaving, painting or curling.

The other day, in one of the "celebrities you're not attracted to" threads, someone made the comment that Brooke Shields is not attractive and wondered if Brooke thought ANY man liked "those brows."

So - you say to go natural. Clearly this other person thinks Brooke ought to do something about her brows.

I pluck. I have thick, Brooke Shields-like eyebrows. They will also be a unibrow if I don't keep after them. I don't WANT a unibrow. I WANT to have two distinct eyebrows, so I pluck.

I also wear makeup. Soap and water alone aren't going to cut it when one is plagued by scarred skin.

I will never be one of the "real beauties" you speak of, but I'm very real anyway, despite my use of tweezers and cosmetics.

[xultar]

33. 18

[Turn CO Blue]

35. I'd say 15 (in high school)

Not before that, though. Too young.

At 15 in high school (with all the oil and hormones leading to teen acne) why would someone want to compound the acne potential with foundation? However, I can understand wanting to touch-up a zit with a little concealer if it is a really bad one!

I have shown my daughter that the best makeup techniques are very light, well-blended and enhance natural features, and make it hard to even tell you have makeup on.

Anyway, my parenting style is to choose my battles wisely. I did not freak out when she wanted to put some pink streaks in her hair (in fact, I helped her), or when she wears her Happy Bunny shirts (shirts with very sarcastic statements on them), or she wanted to get her ears double-pierced. Her clothing style is "goth meets runway model". Young adults need to be able to express themselves and show lots of individualism in their clothes and accessories. She doesn't choose to show lots of skin, because that's not what she is about - so I don't have to fight her on it. We openly discuss the insecurities and different focus that some girls must have to dress so provocatively.

Now if she wanted to go to a Rave, or stay out past eleven, I will limit that - and I am able to with little argument because she knows she has freedoms in other areas.

Now, if she wanted to read an Ann Coulter book, I would probably pitch a hissy fit! (sort of kidding)

[jmowreader]

49. So you're saying that given the choice...

of heavy eye makeup or Ann Coulter, you'd probably choose the former.

I kinda agree. After all, you can wash makeup off, but Ann Coulter on an impressionable young mind could prove permanently damaging.

[Turn CO Blue]

53. Exactly. Heavy eye makeup is just a phase

(we all know how lazy we all get about makeup, after say, 25 years old) but getting out of the clutches of the ReBiblicans is akin to the struggle in a seven-book fantasy quest.

I keep wondering how I made the switch...it was like I was unplugged from the Matrix or something.

[Scrooge]

40. when zits happen

Then I think its fine for girls to wear makeup. I started at 14 or so, but not whorish looking. Im 22 now, and dont wear much more makeup than I did at 14.

[ogradda]

41. no way in hell would my 10 year old be wearing make up

15 for full make-up and dress up. and she got a deal i was 16 before i was allowed to.

[teach1st]

51. I'm a teacher of ten-year-olds...

...and a single father of two girls (now grown). I had authority with my daughters and they could do the dress-up thing in the house at ten and eleven, complete with make-up, but had to wait a bit before I let them go anywhere. They grew up in hippie environs and even though they always maintained as youngsters a healthy dislike for that lifesyle, they were always conservative with makeup.

I have no authority in class to forbid makeup. It used to be that a teacher or principal could say something about makeup in elementary school, but in my school, at least, there's nothing in the dress code about it. Still, I get away with asking the girls who do come in with noticeable makeup on to wash it off, simply by making sure right away the kids trust me and then by assuring each made-up girl that she is fine as is. It helps to talk about self-image (especially female self-image at that age) in relation to mass-media image throughout the year, and I do.

[SmokingJacket]

54. When she moves out.

But I have sons, so I don't have to be flexible (I don't think...)

[CornField]

56. I let my daughter start wearing make-up out of the house at 12

We probably started playing with it when she was 10 or so. My rule is the same as my mother's rule... when you are responsible enough to wash your face and take care of your belongings, then I will believe you to be responsible enough to wear make-up and have input as to the selection of your own clothing.

[JVS]

57. 22