Am I being a prude?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

Skinner, I hope you don't consider this a sex thread. This really happened to me today, and it is really a matter of respect for employees, I think.

My boss didn't come to work today because one of his children was sick, and his wife couldn't take off work. I thought it was good that he took the responsibility of taking care of the child. About noon, I went by his house because the mail for the business goes to his home. This is something I do at the same time every day. When I went inside, he came out to see me in his pajama bottoms and nothing else. I called out, so he knew who it was and he also knew why I was there. I got the mail and left as fast as I could-but of course he had to ask me questions about how things were going at work.

Frankly, his appearance made me ill. No, he didn't come on to me, I think he was just being a slob. Since my husband has lost his job, I'm the sole support of my family, so I can't quit, and I'm not exactly sure what to do.

Any ideas? Should I just forget it?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Unless your boss has been inappropriate with you in the past

It sounds like he wasn't thinking. Heck..my boss treats me like one of the family..if he came out with no shirt on at his home..I'd point at his belly and we'd both get a good laugh out of it.

[Somawas]

13. Fuhgeddaboudit!

[tk2kewl]

2. he absolutely should have at least put on shirt

i would probably give him a pass though

[Left Is Write]

9. Yeah - I think so too.

He probably didn't really give it a second thought. I know when I'm home caring for a sick child, my appearance is the last thing on my mind. If it were me, I might have forgotten I was in just my pajamas!

[Guy Fawkes]

3. Since he was wearing pants...

I'd have to say that he was just lounging around. Plently of men like to lounge around the house in their PJs. Personaly, I have a pair of "pajama pants" that I only wear for lounging. Sure, the sight of your bosses stomach (gut?) might not be so nice, but plenty of pasty white guys mow their lawns in less...

[MichaelHarris]

4. I wouldn't worry unless

he had came out in leather chaps screaming "hi yooo silver". He was just in his comfort zone and wasn't thinking.

[slutticus]

5. So he was just shirt-less?

Were his pajama bottoms revealing or something?

Did you see any more than you would if he were in a swimming suit?

I'm just trying to get a mental picture. But it seems harmless to me.

Maybe he didn't know it made you uncomfortable for him to be without his shirt. I walk around like a slob at my home all the time...but then again...I do put on a shirt if someone comes in.

[VelmaD]

6. Woohoo...

half-nekkid slutticus. ;)

[salin]

7. I agree with post #1 and #2

probably not thinking and being slovenly... don't know of your relationship - but if there is an appropriate time to "crack a joke" about it later, one that makes the point of how uncomfortable it was for you- I would do so. If nothing else, just to make sure you wake him up to the (let's assume unintended) "ick" factor. Or if the situation were to ever happen again... as he started asking questions... perhaps you could tell him that you have enough time for him to get out of his jammies before finishing the business (conversation).

[Goldmund]

8. Yup. You're being a prude.

[Pithlet]

12. I don't think it's prudishness

I'm not offended by nudity, but if my boss had done something like that, it would have been very weird. I can't even imagine it. If you know one of your employees is stopping by the house, it isn't all that hard to put a shirt on. It's a matter of respect, really. Unexpected visits are one thing. But if I knew that my boss was expecting me, and didn't bother to put on a shirt, that would make me feel funny.

[Goldmund]

17. Well, it's like this...

In some countries (Afghanistan) the exact same feelings would be caused by a woman answering her door without wearing a burqa, or a head scarf (Iran). In some others (Holland), even asking a question like was asked in this thread would be considered bizarre.

So in other words, there is nothing intrinsically strange about what the boss did -- he (may have) merely broke a cultural constant, a conformist tradition.

To me, the very definition of conformism, or prudishness, is treating cultural laws as if they were natural laws, intrinsic to the world, axiomatic and self-explanatory.

Now, just like nobody has the right to demand you break the conventions of your culture, nobody has the right to demand you follow them. Whether or not you get offended is up to you, and nobody has the right to malign your cultural sensitivities; but analogously, you have no right to demand anybody else conform to the same cultural box you have chosen to conform to. The freedom of culture is of the same species, and is equally important, as the freedom of and from religion.

Imagine what the world would be like if cultural traditionalists have been given the right to impose their sensibilities on everybody else since the beginning of civilization. Cultural progress -- as is with any other kind of progress -- is implemented by those who refuse to conform with cultural traditions.

[Pithlet]

22. Well

Conformism and prudishness aren't the same things, your personal definition not withstanding.

I don't think many would argue that what the boss did, or the poster s's reaction to it is on anywhere near the same level as FORCING a woman to wear a burqua in public. I'm simply amazed that this is the second time in a week I've had to defend people from being placed in the same category as the taliban here on DU. Burquas were brought up then, too. It's insane.

I'll tell you something. The abuse that women face around the world, and the little societal peccadilloes that we all face in western society aren't even on the same planet. Or, in the same universe. And responding with examples of such and equating people who are made uncomfortable with their half naked boss with those who oppress in such a manor only really serve to belittle what happens to people who actually face true oppression

There is nothing wrong with being such a free spirit who is completely unconcerned with any of society's mores about nudity and sexuality. I applaud that, in fact, and think it would make for a more civilized society if everyone had that attitude. But, in the real world, I simply would not greet a co-worker I was expecting at the door half naked, and, if I did, I would not be so arrogant as to think that it is THEIR problem if they're uncomfortable with it. It isn't just a matter of conformity. It's a matter of respect. It wouldn't be the site of my half naked boss that would trouble me.

I didn't want to see my boss naked when I worked. That does not make me a prude, and it certainly doesn't put me on the same level as the taliban forcing women to wear burquas. Again, that's insane.

[Goldmund]

26. You misundestand

It's called hyperbole.

I wasn't equating the two by any means. I only cited extreme examples of cultural traditions taken as if they were divine comandments.

Have you ever heard of Ceriades' paradox? It concerns occurences of analogous phenomena that are different only in level, but not in fundamental nature -- and yet viewed as separate phenomena. For example, the question "How many hairs do you have to lose before you're bald?"; or, "how many grains of sand does a pile of sand make?". If you plucked your hairs, one by one, you would eventually be "bald"; but is it possible to determine the exact quantity of hairs you'd have to lose before you're considered "bald", and is it possible to determine the exact moment in your plucking ritual at which you became "bald"? No.

We as a society often implement an artificial resolution of this paradox. For example, nobody believes that at 17 years 364 days old, you're too immature to vote; and then suddenly the clock strikes midnight, and voila! -- an educated voter emerges. Similarly, nobody believes that all 17 year olds are too immature to vote and all 19 year olds mature enough. But we make a compromise and say "OK. We have to draw the line somewhere, so let's draw it here.". While we have to do that legally, and practically, it's foolish to think that this line carries quasi-divine moral implications. While the law has to exist, for example, to make it illegal for a 22 year old to sleep with a 17 year old, I've always been turned off by the knee-jerk moral outrage to such an act.

You see where I'm going, don't you? A similar example of Ceriades' paradox exists in this issue. No, of course I'm not saying those who are cultural conformists in some way are automatically Taliban; just like a racist is not automatically a Klansman and an anti-semite is not automatically a Nazi.

Also, let's dissasociate other forms of oppression, such as the ban from education or employment, from the cultural oppression of requiring burqas. A few hundred years from now, our ban on women being topless in public, for example, will be considered pure cultural oppression. And those women who chose to be "arrogant" and disobey this convention will be considered the Rosa Parks-es of a cultural war.

Now, in any "Ceriades" issue, the line drawn -- cultural or legal -- is merely a compromise. In cultural cases, it is, in terms of any inherent or moral issues, arbitrary. Only a 100 years ago answering the door without a tie would have been considered "strange"; what the boss did in this case hovers around where our culture presently draws the line, and hence people seem to be divided on the issue. The position of this line is constantly being changed in the tug of war between cultural conformism and cultural liberalism.

Rather than acting like it's "arrogant" to challenge the position of the line, I think it's arrogant to demand other people stay on whatever your sensibilities tell you is the correct side of the correct position of the line. Its position shifts through both time and space, but the scale upon which it lives on is not divine, not natural, and has been a platform of cultural oppression ever since the beginning of civilization. So I hope you don't consider me "arrogant" for rejecting the scale in its entirety, no matter where you think the line should be drawn.

[salvorhardin]

10. Well, this gives new meaning

to business casual. :-)


Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Nikepallas]

11. Not to make your feelings any less important

Perhaps your boss didn't find anything wrong with his dress. He was at home (and if it was my husband I know he would at least put on a robe a robe before approaching anyone but that was how he was raised.) Some men do find nothing wrong with wearing only pajama bottoms. My grandfather often walked around his house (and when he lived with us.)like that.


Maybe just put that day out of your mind and if next time you go over there and he is at home give a quick call. It could be that he was busy with his child and not thinking.


I can sympathize with the discomfort you felt. Everyone has been in that position at one time or another. I work with physically and mentally handicap individuals. Sometimes I need to bath them and well, human (male)nature will sometime happens. It does make me uncomfortable but I know my clients cannot help that happening so I try and make the situation work. Including turning a blind eye in a sense.

Please understand I am not trying make your feelings any less important just hopefully giving another point of view.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. i dont think you are being prudish

had i a female done this to you,,,many here would have said that was highly inappropriate....and i think it was.

[Goldmund]

19. Many would have, but not I

What you're basically saying is that gender equality warrants for the implementation of the lowest common denominator for both sexes.

I'd rather implement that equality in a way that is more liberating for both sexes, rather than less.

[m_welby]

15. its not that uncommon, but...

If it makes you uncomfortable and if its likely to happen often I would mention it in as non hostile way as possible,Just to let him know how it makes you feel. I expect he just wasn't thinking about it being an issue. A decent boss (person) will show some decorum and respect your professional relationship. On the other hand, if it's a one time occurrance I'd just forget about it.

[DrWeird]

16. Pff. Yes, you are.

Are you telling me you haven't spent any days off work taking care of sick kids?

[WildClarySage]

18. It's possible that with a sick kid

he may have not wanted to present YET ANOTHER clean shirt to be puked/coughed/snotted/slobbered/diarrhea'd on. Yeah, he probably should have put a shirt on, but I can think of reasons why he might not have, not the least of which is sheer up-with-a-sick-child-not-thinking-straight, which I've done lots of times. Though, not without my clothes. Usually.

[Toucano]

20. The answer to the prude question is always the same:

If you have to ask, you are. ;)

[miss_kitty]

21. I think there's nothing unhealthy in being taken aback

Some people are not as comfy with various stages of undress.

You are right, it was great for him to take time off to take care of the kid. This may be a treasured memory for the kid, the day daddy stayed at home and gave the care and did one on one attention.

I think you are someone who is really sensitive about that dress thing, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I think he was not thinking so much about you as much as he was of his kid and work. And what a good job you are doing in his absence.

[nini]

23. You went inside THEN called out?

you're lucky he had pants on then. :evilgrin:

But, I don't think you need to worry but only you know the kind of relationship you have with him and what his behaviour is under different circumstances.

It wouldn't have bothered me if I had never been bothered by him before.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. No, I put the sentence in the wrong place

I shook the door, called out, and went in.

[nini]

25. but, you didn't wait until he answered the door?

Maybe he would have thrown a shirt on if you had waited? Again, you know him the best and would know the situation. Maybe if it ever happens again have a male employee go get it.

Honestly, I don't think you should worry about this. You'll make yourself more uncomfortable than is necessary... good luck

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

27. He never answers a door

And it was noon. I've never seen him except fully dressed, even at home. He's always been very polite, and moves out of the office to the garage to tuck in his shirt so as not to do it in front of me. His kids have been sick before, and he didn't look like this. I guess this is why it grossed me out-it wasn't in character.