saying ma'am is it regional?

[angee_is_mad]

I would be curious what my fellow DUers have to say. I am working on a paper about whether the word ma'am has negative(racial) connotations or is it just a regional sign of respect.
OK, let me hear it!

[WestHoustonDem]

1. Having lived in NY and TX, I'd say it's regional

[teach1st]

2. Sign of respect in urban Florida

I have never heard or considered that the term has negative racial connotations.

[angee_is_mad]

10. some blacks

feel that it is making yourself subservient which dates back to slavery.
Being a southern black woman I never shared this viewpoint and always viewed it as showing respect, particularly to my elders.
But, I was in the drugstore this week and an elderly black man was there getting his prescription filled and he addressed the young white woman as ma'am. I have to say for some reason it rubbed me the wrong way and I wondered if she had been black if he would have address her the same way.

[Sannum]

3. I don't see it as a negative at all...

Maybe it is just my upbringing or my experience with meeting VIP's. I see it as a mark of respect that doubles as a lifeline if you forget a name!

When I met Caroline Kennedy earlier this fall, I called her Ma'am after a split second panic about wether to call her Mrs. Kennedy, Mrs Schlossburg or Mrs. Kennedy Schlossberg!

[PinkTiger]

4. How could it be a racial thing??

I grew up in the mid-South, and here in Southern Missouri we say Ma'am as a note of respect. How could it be negative or racial??? or maybe I'm too much a southerner to know the difference.

The only time I got into trouble saying Ma'am was in the Army, addressing a Sergeant.

[qnr]

5. I've lived all over the country and have heard it used everywhere.

I'd guess that 90% of time I've heard it, it has been meant either as a sign of respect, or facetiously/humorously.

[angee_is_mad]

12. more often in the South?

I discuss this with some of my classmates and most of the northerners said that they never use it until they came down here. Some of them said that they refuse to use it, because it is not a sign of respect, but of putting someone above yourself.
I attend a HBCU btw so the views that I hear maybe outside the mainstream.
Support your HBCU.

[qnr]

23. Probably more in the south, but it is quite common in the

northern states as well. Putting someone above yourself? Hmmm has nothing to do with that, as far as I am concerned. I can call a doctor "Doctor" in recognition of his/her accomplishments without "putting them above me." I mostly use it as a sign of respect (and it really has nothing to do with age to me, I've given a "Thank you ma'am." to sixteen year olds when they've earned it. Of course, I also use it to annoy people on occasion, the ones that think you are calling them old :)

[angee_is_mad]

27. Some blacks

that I have spoken to refer to it as a "yes massah" type of thing. Those same blacks tend to be from the north also.
So, I think that it might be more regional.

[qnr]

31. Yeah, well, everyone is an individual. I grew up in the ghettos of

New York City, and heard that side of it often enough, but I heard the respectful side much more, even there.

[angee_is_mad]

34. thank you

I was starting to wonder if I was the only one on here who have heard about the racial connotations.
Please share some of things that you have heard.

[qnr]

36. Well, I don't know if I would be the best person to ask.

I grew up in the sixties and early seventies, which were sort of atypical. Basically, a lot of the people in the neighborhoods I grew up in (especially the young adults) did not want to defer to anyone, for any reason. They wouldn't use "ma'am" because it was linked to the memories of slavery experience in their families. It had taken on the connotation that your classmates mention. I distinctly remember many times though, when their mothers would catch them misbehaving, give them the what for, and they'd meekly respond with a "yes ma'am".

Now, "yes'm" (yezzum) was a different matter. Nobody used that pronunciation - that was the one that was widely considered to be offensive -- at least when I was growing up.

[angee_is_mad]

41. I'm a continuing student

and did not know whether it was a generational thing or not, since most of my classmates are young enough to be my child.

One of my professors said that her husband felt that it did have a racial connotation and refuses to use ma'am or sir. He is in his late 40s and was raised in the south. She also said that she disagreed with him,so go figure!

[masshole]

6. I use it at work often

when speaking with women, be they superiors or subordinates, white, black, or purple.

To me it is simply a matter of respect.

I'm a white guy in my 40's from New England, btw.

[nutsnberries]

21. hahahahahaha

i'm a masshole too- born and raised.

I don't like being called ma'am. Like Cadence below, it makes me feel old!

[asjr]

7. I was taught that it is a sign of respect especially

to your elders. Now that I am an elder I do appreciate it.

[CAcyclist]

8. It's not regional

I am in California, and I was on the horse and livestock judging teams in college. One part of the judging contest is giving a 2 minute set of reasons for why you selected the animals the way you did. We were taught to start out saying either ma'am or sir.

Otherwise, I never use ma'am or sir in casual conversation, but it is obviously a formal use.

[Cadence]

9. I get called Ma'am ALL the time

and I hate it because it makes me feel old. I'm in Colorado, I'm 31 and I'm white. So at least here I don't think it has racial connotations, for me it's ageist! LOL. I think it's supposed to be a sign of respect.

[JanLip]

15. First sign of getting old...

is when a youngster calls you Ma'am...It's only the beginning..Take it from me..I know I'm 55! :crazy:

[AngryAmish]

37. First sign of getting old as a woman is when

a kid says "Hey Lady!"

Not being female, I have heard this complaint often tho.

[KarenS]

17. I agree !!!

It makes me feel old too!!

but at 55 I guess the young'ns think I AM old

:shrug:

[Cadence]

24. well....welll....if they're doing it to you both

at 55.......why are they doing it to me at 31!! HEY!

[fleabert]

11. having lived in TX, OK, KA, NY, OH, KY, and CA

yes, I think it's regional. I was taught (in TX) to use ma'am when adressing any woman I didn't know. Older, younger, whatever. Sir the same way.


BTW- People in NY do not like to be called Sir or Ma'am! I had to apologize a lot. "I'm sorry, I'm from Texas, it's a habit."

[angee_is_mad]

13. Why is that

you think? Did they give you a reason?

[fleabert]

43. Everyone who got offended said they thought it implied they were old. n/t

[Mabus]

49. Yep. I remember the first time I got "ma'am'ed"

It was the Taco Bell on 6th street. My younger sisters were with me, they were 15 (twins). The guy looked at us and asked what we wanted. One of my sisters ordered. Then he looked at us. My 15 year old sister was "miss" when he looked at me he said "ma'am." I should have jumped over that counter, stuck the sour cream gun up his nose and let him have it. Instead, I quietly accepted this rite of passage and never went there again.

Oh yeah, I was 26 at the time. What pisses me off to this day is that up until a couple of years ago I was still getting carded at the liquor store and for cigarettes. I'm in my 40's.

[Hog lover]

14. Okay, y'all, as a Southerner, I can explain how it is in the South.

My Mama is from Georgia and my Daddy is from Mississippi, and we were taught from the time we could talk that you ALWAYS addressed any elder "Ma'am" and "Sir." "Yes, Ma'am", "No, Sir", etc. This applied to any person in the generation older than you in your family and to any person in the general public who appeared to be an adult or who was a person in authority. We would get our little asses spanked if we failed to show proper respect in this way. It is the same as saying "please" and "thank you."

I am white, but I know that the black children were taught the same thing. The race of the person did not matter.

On edit: I noticed that it seemed that Yankees (anyone north of the Mason-Dixon line) didn't seem to follow the same rules. Of course, we weren't really allowed to associate with Yankees.

[Phentex]

53. same here

I'm in Georgia and that's how it was when I was growing up.

We don't make our kids say it though. But plenty of people still do.

[Left Is Write]

16. It's short for madam and refers to a married woman.

How could that be racial?

[angee_is_mad]

26. single women

are called ma'am also. I was taught to use it as a sign of respect and never put negative connotations to it until I heard a debate on a local urban station here. I always knew that some northerners never used it, but I never put racial connotations to the word.

As I said before,when I heard the elderly black man who appeared to be at least in his 70s address a white woman in twenties as ma'am it did rub me the wrong way.

Oh, btw I will probably continue to use the word.

[Left Is Write]

28. Yes, I know they are....

but the original meaning of the word was for a married woman. Usage over the years has changed that. I just meant that I was wondering how the racial connotation figured into it.

[realisticphish]

18. i hear it once in a while

but i think of it more as an age-relative thing


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Nicole]

19. I never heard of it being an insult

or a form of respect.

It is a safe way of addressing a woman when you don't know if she is a Miss, Ms, or Mrs.

[Frogtutor]

20. No, ma'am! I've only heard it used as a sign of respect...

I'm in Texas and Caucasian, and many kids are raised to ALWAYS respond to their elders with Ma'am and Sir. In fact, it's kind of a joke about getting old; most women in their 20's are somewhat insulted when called ma'am!

Frogtutor

[NashVegas]

22. The Word is Not, But the Intent Is

In NY, it's either an insult (you're getting above yourself) or a sign of age (which to some is an insult).


In the South, it's a term of respect. I freaked when I moved down here and people started calling me that, but got used to it fast enough.

[qnr]

33. That's strange. I grew up in NYC, and while I agree with the two

interpretations you give, I also knew many that used it as a term of respect (this was the 1960's and 1970's).

[NashVegas]

52. Yes But

did you hear it being used as a term of respect towards women under the age of, say 25?

[bobbieinok]

25. first heard it when teaching mid 60s at the U of FL

then teaching in OK from students from the south-eastern US

grew up in OK, college in TX.....don't remember ever hearing/saying it then

[angee_is_mad]

30. do you say it?

to show respect

[aquaman]

29. I live in the south...........

and say ma'am to those younger and older. It is just the polite thing to do.

[gmoney]

32. I'd heard it's regional...

That in NYC the bank tellers call all women "Miss", regardless of age... in Ohio, it's "Ma'am" to all women, regardless of age.

[Rabrrrrrr]

35. I'm a Wisconsin boy born and raised, and I use "sir" and "ma'am"

use it all the time. USed when I was a child, when I worked in the restaurant, in the grocery store, etc.

Also used it all the time in NYC. Not sure why others in this thread feel that NYers think it's insulting - I never found anyone who found it insulting. They either didn't react, or had a positive reaction - most of the time, with a bit of surprise in a feel-good kind of way, that I - an educated white guy - would call them "sir" or "ma'am" whether they be Arab cabbie, hispanic janitor at the office, the hispanic and Jamaican grocery clerks, my peers (of whatever race), children, or the guy who attended the men's bathroom at Del Friscos.

I think it's a sign of respect, and very civil and proper and appropriate way to address other people. I wish people would use it more.

[foreigncorrespondent]

38. Nope!

I'm in Australia, and in my field of work when I talk to a customer I always address that customer as ma'am or sir.

I think it is being more polite that way.

[AngryAmish]

39. One more perspective

I'm from Chicago. My folks taught me to say it as a kid. But I was kinda an exception where I grew up. I stopped doing it about age 14 - rebellious thing. Then when I moved away to college I noticed how rude everyone was and I started doing it again. People started to be nicer to me in public.

I think it is a reflection of manners which always benifits the person who has manners. So, be polite, it gets one places.

[yellowdogintexas]

40. My daddy came down on me like a ton of bricks if I did not

say "ma'am" or "sir" to anyone who was my elder. I never thought of it as racial in any way...everybody used those terms to an older person.

I do think the elderly black gentleman saying it to the much younger woman may have been indicative of the times in which he was raised, however I tend to see it as more of a mark of respect to her as a woman and a lady than anything else. I would have said "Thank you sir" to him.

And unless specifically instructed to do so by that person, we always addressed an older lady that we knew well as "Miss Elizabeth" or whatever (whether she was married or not) or a gentleman as "Mr. John" etc.

I remember speaking about a lady in our town who is maybe 15 years older than I and calling her by her first name. Daddy came unglued, and I said "Look, she ASKED me to just call her Annette" (I was about 16 at the time)

I even recall that he reminded me to say "Ma'am" to elderly black ladies, which was pretty unusual for the times (1950's Kentucky). Age was something you respected very highly, apparantly.

Those sweet old ladies are all gone now and my mother's friends are now the ones we call "Miss....." . I rather like it, it has a sort of genteel quality about it.

However at 56, I do cringe when anyone older than 25 says it to me! But I do respect their parents for teaching them those manners.

[angee_is_mad]

42. But, if she had been black

I wonder if he would have said the same thing. Normally I would not have questioned it, but since working on this project, I believe I have a heightened sensitivity to the word.

I was raise in the south and I live in the south and I was raised to say yes ma'am, no ma'am.

When I was discussing this with my classmates, I asked them how could a word have racial connotations to it when white people use it with each other? One young lady replied, white people use the words bitch and whore in reference to women and those are anti-woman remarks.

[yellowdogintexas]

50. did you read my whole post?

[TexasSissy]

44. Why would it have racial connotations? I don't get it.

I'm from south Louisiana. Live in Texas now, and have for some time. Not so much here in the big city, but in south La., yes, "ma'am" is fairly common. If you recall, Elvis Presley always said "ma'am" to older women.

And if you're REALLY southern or country, you drop the "a." Yes'm. Means yes, ma'am.

My repairmen, like the plumber who was here the other day, usu. call me "ma'am." I ask if he thinks he'll be able to finish the job that day. He says, "yes, ma'am."

Where do you live that "ma'am" is not said?

[Turn CO Blue]

45. Born and raised in Texas, and

in school, it was absolutely expected of us respond to any question with "No, Ma'am" or "No, Sir" (or "Yes, Ma'am" or "Yes, Sir").

It was a sign of respect. The habit carries on throughout the rest of one's life.

It is/was also expected that one would use Ma'am or Sir even as an adult when addressing elder family or stangers of any race and authority figures. Still is.

Race never entered into it, in my personal experience.

(I'm a white female.)

I would say that it is similar to the Japanese way of using "san" after someone's name, as a sign of respect.

[wickerwoman]

46. I'd say it's definitely a southern thing.

It reminds me of a Ricki Lake episode where a black southern man justified hitting his kid with a belt because "the kid knows to say 'sir' and 'ma'am' to his elders." I felt like throwing up.

I'm not sure about negative racial connotations. I think if the situation already have negative racial connotations the word would exacerbate them but in and of itself I don't associate it with racism. More with southernness.

[Timebound]

47. It's all you hear in NC.

[Liberal Mommy]

48. Raised in the south

Grew up in Eastern Tennessee and we said "ma'am" all the time. I'd say "ma'am" & "bless your heart" are the two I remember saying the most.

[angee_is_mad]

51. and sweetie

we say that alot down here.

[CRK7376]

54. As a Son of North Carolina

I was raised to use the term, Ma'am as a sign of respect. Regardless of color, women receive a ma'am from me whether it is a question, response, greeting, trying to get by somebody standing in an aisle, form of thanks. Second nature response....

[Sabriel]

55. When I was teaching

No said Ma'am except kids raised in the South or by parents from the South. Now that I'm back in the Midwest, I've never ever heard it.