I'm not going to my sister's for xmas

[Rumba]

We were raised without religion, never seemed to hurt us. Family stopped going to a lutheran church when I was like 3 or something. My sister wasn't an atheist after some point but religion was never a big deal in our house, or any of my aunts & uncles. And I always had the impression my sister was pretty liberal, though not as liberal as am I.

My sister married a conservative catholic a few years agon, and oh how times have changed. My dad tells me when he visited during the last few months her husband would ineveitably goad him with som pro-bush remark. He apparently freaked them out by telling them that he thinks Bush is a very bad president.

My sister has a pro-Bush .sig, and seems to be completely buying the rhetoric hook, line and sinker. My dad tells me the only newspapers they get are catholic publications, and I'm sure they are Faux News lovers.

They have two sons, ages 1 and 3, who I've never seen, and my sister invited me to join my dad and stepmom at their place for xmas this year. I told my dad, that if I went I predict a very bad scene is very likely, because if my sister or brother-in-law make any political comments (as they are apparently likely to do) I would not hold my tongue and it would get ugly. My dad completely understood.

I'm kind of bummed not to be able to see my sister and nephews, but I really don't want to end up in this kind of argument.

Oh, I live in the bay area in CA, my dad lives in IL, and my sister in PA. So I also don't have to put up with a Pittsburg winter, which is kind of a perq.

[AlCzervik]

1. Do you think she's doing all of that to make her husband happy?

he sounds overbearing you know? I'll be moving to Pacifica in the next 6 months, next year you're welcome at my house.

[Rumba]

3. He's definitely a control freak

My dad's type-A, and I'm a curious mix of type A and B, but my brother in law is so fucking anal he could shit diamonds if he eats coal. My dad has mentioned this before.

There are a whole lot of things in my sister's past that I think might make her "compromise", yeah I think that's definitely going on.

Pacifica's pretty foggy at night sometimes, but I'll bring food and a bottle of wine!

[AlCzervik]

4. yup, very foggy but very laid back

we'll leave the light on for you.

[Spinzonner]

2. I've never really understood the need to argue

If people don't agree with me and are not open to rational discussion, I just smile, politely decline to argue, and then proceed to ignore the subject.

Even the most stubborn will tend to get the message eventually.

And if you are confident and comfortable in your beliefs, I see no need to get worked up by people advocating theirs, no matter how much you disagree or how strenuous they are. You are capable and responsible for your own reactions. Why can't you hold your tongue, even if they don't.

Focus on the kids and ignore the adults - assuming the kids haven't quite been programmed yet.

Why create family problems over things like this.

[Rumba]

5. Well,

I'd look at it as avoiding a family problem.

I haven't been to their place since they got married, so not going this year isn't a bug devialtion from tradition. I'm just not in any mood right now to have an argument with family that won't change any minds and I'm not in any mood to sit there and think "what maroons!". So it's just better all around if I decline.

[Spinzonner]

12. Well, perhaps it's easy for me to say

because I have no siblings or in-laws.

But I can still decline to get into such discussions and arguments with my friends and other relatives.

Disagreeing (within ones mind) is inherent, arguing is optional.

If they never change their opinions and you never change yours on such matters, then will you deal with it by avoidance forever ? What will you be losing by that approach to the problem ?

Perhaps you could try this time by, the first time it arises, clearly stating that you recognize there are differing views between you, a discussion seems unlikely to be productive, and that you wish to instead spend the time you have there enjoying your family, not arguing with them - so you will ignore the subject whenever it comes up.

If for some reason that doesn't work you can tell them in the future that you wont be visiting because it wasn't possible to have a happy time because they couldn't seem to avoid subjects that were disruptive.

[Yupster]

6. Agree Spin

When your brother-in-law launches into a speech and you smile politely and say "now which Dr Seuss books do you have so far?" most everyone will quickly get the idea that you don't want to talk politics.

Why punish yourself from seeing your kin. Most families can work these problems out with truces.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. I've already asked my fundie sister to remove my e-mail address from her

address book. I'm prepared to tell her at Christmas time that she better enjoy the time we have together while my parents are alive, because once their time is up on this earth, I'll have no desire to see her or her children again.

[AlCzervik]

9. Wow, my husband did the same thing with his brother

he went fundie after his divorce and then didn't want us in his life because we "Weren't right with God". so 5 years later he's lonely i guess because he alienated all of us including his own son and he calls my husband who promptly told him to "Fuck off Robert, i dont want you around my kid."

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. The problem is, I'm lonelier when I'm around her.

Thank goodness I have other siblings who are sane and remember their roots.

[AlCzervik]

11. Good, i'm glad you have other family

we live 3000 miles away from ours....for a reason.

[CTyankee]

8. Excuse me, but

I am just sick and tired of being "nice" to regressive, in denial, cowardly, relatives who proclaim being "pro-choice" when they are no such thing, and being sarcastic about our progressivity. Fuck them. They need to know we no longer accept their bullshit. We no longer accept them as the "social liberals" they like to think they are.

Screw them!

[NuttyFluffers]

13. why leave paradise for a war zone?

go enjoy tibetan vegetarian thanksgiving. :D i know i will have a latin/asian/Southern style thanksgiving myself. mmm, tasty food and no freezing weather. ahh, paradise...

[bliss_eternal]

14. Rumba-- I understand your choice.

Dh and I stopped spending time with people that don't accept us exactly as we are. It's a huge pain in the ass and detrimental to self esteem to spend time with people whose only goal seems to be to convert you to their way of thinking, lifestyle choices, etc. Not going to do it anymore. There are enough times in life when one has to deal with unpleasant people. Why do so in your leisure time when you have a choice?

Just because people are related to us doesn't mean we are obligated to spend time with them. Those holiday Hallmark card commercials are bullshit, commercial propaganda. I don't know any families that look like that or act like that. But I know a lot more people that come together because they want to and most aren't related. I choose to spend time with my family of choice. I always have a good time and feel good because they accept me, enjoy my company and I enjoy theirs.

Life's too short to choose to spend time with whacked out assholes, imo.

Hope you have some other people that you can spend your holiday with in peace. :)

[elfin]

15. Tell her your absence is a gift to her

A day free of political and religious strife for both of you. Send some treats or flowers and something for the kids to keep the door open for the inevitable day when she comes around enough to continue a face to face relationship.

[hunter]

16. Right Wing Catholics are insane...

Bush's obvious fondness for executing people is always an interesting subject to bring up... you might start slow and innocent, talking about the Pope, and then later bring Bush into it.

Inside the Church it's almost like Star Wars... there is a "dark" side of the force...

Yikes, here comes Darth Mel (Gibson) on his skycycle! Gotta run...

[Skittles]

17. Rumba, you need to set aside politics and go see your nephews

do not give neocon conservatives the power to drive you away from your family. Besides, those boys need your influence in their lives.

[Rumba]

18. Not practicable

They live on the other side of the continent. I have to wait until they have email.

[Skittles]

20. my nephews live in England

I know how it goes :(

[Rumba]

19. Oh, and not to start a pity party

but I'll be spending t'giving and xmas by myself. Not the first time. And I suppose that sounds sad to some. I'm a loner, always was, even as a kid. Sometimes it's lonely, 98% of the time it's just solitude. Doesn't really bother me, I like my downtime. I'll go ballroom dancing, and talk to friends and family on the phone, and chill.

[2Design]

21. I go to where there is xmas lights and fun - and just blend in

I have learned to have a wonderful time by myself - my fantasy - I use Disney as my escapism for now - I love christmas lights and the magical thinking - I dislike the reality of presents - and people not remembering - had a counselor who told me to buy presents for myself and have them wrapped under the tree -

so now I give myself something special or something I want for the holidays -

yes there is a sadness to not having my 'expectations' by I can't control others - so I do my best to entertain myself -

I love watching christmas parades too
universal in orlando has the macy parade - so I am going to do that too - it does have memories of childhood and White Plains NY and going to the macy parade there on the friday after thanksgiving - my mom always took us -

There are always lots of christmas specials and yes they are fantasy but it is like reading a book that isn't true

It has taken me a long time to help make holidays just another day in the year - and take the power out of them for sadness -

I allow the little kid in me to light up with the lights

so I am sure calif disney and universal do something special - go before the crowds -