Woody Allen - Brilliant or Overrated?

[St. Jarvitude]

I saw Woody's musical Everyone Says I Love You the other night. I thought it was incredible - both heartwarming as a musical, and wickedly brilliant as musical satire.

I was familiar with his works prior to seeing Everyone, and I thought he was "pretty good". But now, it's sealed. He's one of the most brilliant (and shunned) directors of the second half of the 20th century.

So I ask you:

Woody Allen

[the Princess]

1. How about

PIG MAN - CHILD MOLESTER???????????????

JEEZ! I hate him.

[St. Jarvitude]

2. OK - I didn't ask about that.

As a person, he's pretty disgusting.

But as a director, he's brilliant.

Separate the two.

[the Princess]

4. Can't

He did what he did and he is what he is.

*shrug*

He married a child that was his adopted daughter? HUH?

[malatesta1137]

3. child molester?

do you have proof of this outrageous, stupid charge?

[the Princess]

6. YUP

He was having sex with his daughter when shew as a minor and then married her? What do youc all that?

I call it child molestation.

[malatesta1137]

9. she was not a minor

get your facts correct, and stop trashing people you know nothing about.

[CO Liberal]

17. Her Facts ARE Correct.

Soon Yi was seventeen, which made her a minor. That may have been past the age of consent in New York State, but she was still a minor in the eyes of the law.

Please make sure you are defending people deserving of such a defense. Woody Allen is a perverted scumbag, and the facts bear that out.

What do YOU call a man who helps raise a girl from childhood, and then when she's 127 decides to have sex with her??? What would you call ME if I slept with MY daughter???

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm????? :shrug:

[malatesta1137]

32. she was NOT his daughter

and beyond the age of consent, get over it.

[CO Liberal]

42. He and Mia Farrow Were in a Common Law Realtionship

For all intents and purposes, he molested his daughter.

You are defending a worthless scumbag. Deal with it.

[malatesta1137]

46. stop quoting lies from The National Enquirer

and go read something more substantial.

[CO Liberal]

51. Here Are Some FACTS For You

From sources far more substantial than the National Enquirer:

* * * * *

From Wikipedia, the online encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Allen):

In 1992, his personal life became very public, when he left his long-term partner Mia Farrow after she discovered his secret affair with her adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn. Farrow accused him of being a pedophile (Previn is 35 years his junior) and of abusing their seven-year-old daughter Dylan. These events eerily echoed the plotline of his film released at the time, Husbands and Wives. In that film, Woody and Mia play a couple whose decade-long relationship is falling apart, with Woody's character becoming attracted to one of his 20-year-old students. Mia discusses the events in What Falls Away: A Memoir, ISBN 0385471874.

* * * * *

From a story on www.ivillage.co.uk, entitled "Hollywood's Oddest Couples" (http://www.ivillage.co.uk/newspol/celeb/cfeat/articles/0,10233,528719_533011-3,00.html):

Their story: One of most publicised and controversial pairings in recent history, Woody and Soon-Yi have had an uphill battle convincing both the public and Soon-Yi's mother (who was, at the time, Woody's lover) that their relationship was, well, normal. A brief recap:

1. Soon-Yi was adopted at age eight by Mia Farrow and Andre Previn during a trip to Korea.

2. Two years later, Woody and Mia began a relationship that lasted more than a decade.

3. Farrow found nude pictures of 21-year-old Previn in Allen's apartment in 1991.

4. Media chaos ensued. But, it seemed like Woody's affection for his long-time lover's daughter was more than fatherly. Five years after their affair (reportedly) began, Woody popped the question.

In other words, Woody knew Soon Yi from Age ten, and knew her biblically from age 17.

* * * * *

And finally, from a www.newyorkmetro.com article on "Crimes and Scandals" (http://www.newyorkmetro.com/news/articles/03/03/35th/crazedcity/crimes/26.htm):

Woody and Mia

When: August 17, 1992

The facts: Woody Allen's affair with Soon-Yi Previn, the 21-year-old adopted daugter of his longtime partner Mia Farrow, is batted around in the headlines. Allen's not-fictional-enough Husbands and Wives starring Mia and Woody hits the theaters a month later. Mia would accuse Woody of child abuse and sever all ties with her daughter Soon-Yi.

The dirt: "Rarely had a celebrated relationship ended with such acrimonious fanfare...The toxic battle between the reclusive director and his off- and onscreen star of thirteen years has been played out on the covers of Time and Newsweek (upstaging the Republican Convention), in the tabloids, on the New York Times editorial page, on Entertainment Tonight and Larry King Live.... It was an X-rated version of Peyton Place (the soap on which Mia got her start), and each day's episode ended with the same repellent new revelation. Woody was in love with Soon-Yi, Farrow's 21-year-old adopted daughter. Sources close to Mia accused Woody of child abuse, and she had taped their 7-year-old daughter Dylan's description of the alleged incident. Woody accused Mia of being an unfit mother and said she had beaten Soon-Yi. Mia was reportedly threatening suicide. Woody had taken nude Polaroids of his new love." - from Phoebe Hoban's "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Woody and Mia" in the September 21, 1992 issue of New York Magazine.

Happily ever after? Allen would later marry Soon-Yi.

* * * * *

Face it - the facts show Woody Allen, while he may be talented, is a worthless scumbag.

[malatesta1137]

67. a woman dumped for a younger one

will make up all kinds of LIES AND GARBAGE about her former husband. I am surprised she didn't accuse him of having sex with parrots.

[CatWoman]

68. maybe she was actually trying to protect her child

he was already fucking one of them.

[CO Liberal]

69. And a "Man"...

...who would have sex with his girlfriend's underage adopted daughter deserved to be castrated.

Why are you people defending this human piece of shit?

[the Princess]

43. So what you're saying is.............

If a man raises a child that is adopted by him and his partner as his own child - when she is an adult it is OK for him to have sex with her? Is that what you are saying??

That's sick!

[Dookus]

48. except he didn't raise her

he NEVER lived in the house with her, and as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the two never even met until she was in her teens.

[CO Liberal]

52. WRONG!!!!

Woody Allen and Mia Farrow became involved when Soon Yi was ten, three years before her teens.

[CatWoman]

56. you rely too much on disinformation

[CatWoman]

20. the affair was DISCOVERED when she was 21

it's obvious he had been screwing her for some time.

the pig bastard.

[CO Liberal]

53. And Had Been Going On For At Least Five Years

Meaning it started when Soon Yi was 17.

[helnwhls]

37. what about the business with his son dylan?

[Dookus]

26. She was neither a child

nor his daughter.

[CatWoman]

30. regardless

he was with her mother for over 10 years.

even tho she wasn't a child when the relationship was DISCOVERED, it's obvious it had been going on for some time.

so, at best, he was sleeping with both mother and daughter at one time or the other.

also, he was an obvious father figure to the family of adopted children.

when taken to court over the Dylan question, he didn't even know the child's birthday. or her doctor's name. or her friends names.

he's the one who sued for custody.

In 1991, the situation exploded when Farrow found nude photographs of her teenage daughter, Soon-Yi, in Allen's apartment. She sent soon-Yi off to school, but, amazingly, continued to work with Allen on their latest film, "Husbands and Wives." Her hopes of a reconciliation were shattered when she found out that Allen and Soon-Yi were still in communication and planning a future together. In the huge scandal and legal battle that followed, Allen lost custody of two adopted children and the biological son he shared with Farrow. Allen and Soon-Yi married, and eventually adopted two daughters of their own.

http://wv.essortment.com/miafarrowbiogr_rxox.htm

[Dookus]

33. well you can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true

Soon-Yi had a father figure - her father, Andre Previn. Woody NEVER lived in the household.

There was never any indication that the relationship started while Soon-Yi was legally underage.

Is the whole thing sleazy? Yeah. But throwing out lies that he's a "child molester" or was "her father" are silly.

[the Princess]

45. I have a 29 year old Step-son

He was 16 when I met him. We have never lived in the same house. Is he my son? To me he is. Is it ok for me to have a sexual relationship with him? NO It's still incest.

Now what would you call me if I did have sex with my step-son??

[Dookus]

49. I wouldn't call you anything without

knowing all the circumstances. You and others, however, feel free to call Woody Allen a child molester, a perpetrator of incest and a sicko without knowing the circumstances, either.

[CO Liberal]

54. The "Circumstances" of Woody and Soon Yi Are Well-Known

Admit it - you're defending a worthless, scumbag pervert. And ever worse, you're condoning that scumbag's behavior. Having sex with a minor 35 years your junior is indefensable - it's SICK!!!

[Dookus]

59. Well that's your opinion

And I'm not defending him against behaving badly - I'm defending him against ungrounded charges of incest and pedophilia.

I also don't know what I "condoned". I have said repeatedly it was sleazy. But it was not unheard of, and it wasn't illegal.

If you want to condemn for falling in love with is girlfriend's daughter, go ahead - that's a fair condemnation. But to call him a child molester or to say he was Soon Yi's father is just plain wrong.

[CO Liberal]

61. The Only Thing Wrong Here is Woody Allen Himself

And people who don't have all the facts coming to his defense.

The molestation arose out of acts involving another of Mia Farrow's adopted children - seven-year-old Dylan. Try to defend THAT!!!

[Dookus]

62. Do you believe

every accusation made by a scorned woman in a custody battle?

There was NO evidence the accusation was true.

I don't understand why you're so emotional about this. It involves people you've never met and it happened a long time ago - the supposed "victim", Soon Yi, has been happily married to Allen for a long time now. She's now 34 years old.

[CO Liberal]

64. Well Then, Using That Line of "Logic".....

...I shouldn't worry about the Holocaust victims. After all, it involved people I never met, and it happened a long time ago.

Right>

[CO Liberal]

58. Soon Yi Called Him "Papa Woody"

Sounds like a father figure to me....

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dogmudgeon]

38. Not content with ONE thread about Woody Allen? Here's #2

And it mainly seems to be for people who hate Woody Allen for despoiling sweet little Soon-Yi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2001431

27 is well past the age of consent, folks. That's when she became Mrs. Woody Allen. (And I guess it means he because Mr. Soon-Yi Previn.)

Marriage hardly figures in the minds of molesters.

--bkl

[CO Liberal]

73. That's Right

And since he started having sex with her when she was 17, her age when they married is immaterial.

Woody Allen is a sick bastard - plain and simple.

[CO Liberal]

71. It's Hard to Have An Intelleligent Conversation.....

....when people ignore facts.

And the fact is that Woody Allen is a perverted scumbag.

[the Princess]

44. OMG

I find it astounding that anyone could say "She wasn't his daughter" when he raised her!!!

HE RAISED HER as his daughter. That makes her HIS Daughter!

[Dogmudgeon]

47. He didn't raise her

She was born in 1970 and adopted by Mia Farrow and Andre Previn around 1978 or 1979.

Custody was shared with her adoptive father, who was Andre Previn, NOT Woody Allen.

Woody Allen did NOT raise Soon-Yi Previn.

Woody started keeping company with Mia Farrow around 1983. He never moved in with her or the kids.

Woody and Soon-Yi got married in 1997.

Do the math.

Woody Allen's "crimes" never existed except in the minds of the easily scandalized.

--bkl

[CO Liberal]

55. Then Why Did Soon Yi Call Him "Papa Woody"

Hmmmmmmmmmmm????

Woody Allen was a father figure, and he abused that relationship to have sex with her. The pervert.

[Dogmudgeon]

65. Ask Papa John Creech, Papa John Phillips, and Mama Leone

Hmmmmmmmmmmm????

He wasn't a "father figure", not in her mid-teens. Andre Previn -- and perhaps her birth father in South Korea -- were her father figures. Calling people by parent-names -- "Papa", "Daddy", and "Mama" -- is common outside the parent-child bond, as anyone who has listened to the radio for more than 15 minutes can tell you.

As for under-18 relationships, they've only been considered "perverted" in the last few decades. Compare with Heloise and Abelard. Soon-Yi Previn-Allen does not seem to consider herself a victim of anything more than a press with a rabid imagination. It seems as if she and Woody are happy, in spite of their 30-odd-year age difference.

It's legal for anyone to have sex at age 18, let alone age 21 (when the photos were taken) and 27 (when the pair married). Imagining that Woody was raping her as a pre-teen is strictly morbid fantasizing. If you want to feel sorry and outraged for someone, there are many many kids out there who really are abused, and at ages far younger than 18.

But if you enjoy demonizing Woody Allen, well, whatever floats your boat.

--bkl

[CO Liberal]

66. For The Life Of Me....

...I cannot understand how you or anyone else on this thread can come to the defense of that bastard. To me, Woody Allen is lower than whale shit, and whale shit sinks to the bottom of the ocean.

I'm not imagining anything. You're the ones who are imagining that because Woody Allen is some sort of fucking "genius", anything he does in his private life can be excused.

[Dogmudgeon]

74. Another "bastard"

Roscoe C. Arbuckle. Also known as "Fatty" Arbuckle, although he hated that name.

"Everybody knows" he raped Virginia Rappe with a soda bottle; she subsequently bled to death internally.

The reality was that he did no such thing. What he actually did was to call the police, who then tipped off the press when the realized who made the call.

The studio heads, who took umbrage to Arbuckle's habit of working independently, saw this as their golden opportunity to get rid of him, so they promoted the lie and had no trouble forcing him out of the still-young movie industry. All the big moral mouthpieces of their day weighed in against him, and his first trial for the crime was corrupted by graft and pay-offs to the judge, the prosecution, and the defense alike. It took several years for Arbuckle to clear his name in the eyes of the law; but to the public, he was lower than whale shit, if you recall the metaphor.

Arbuckle died 12 years later, broken, unable to convince anyone that he had been framed and made the target of public scandal. But for years, "everybody knew" that Arbuckle was a "fat pervert".

Woody and Soon-Yi are by all accounts a happy and devoted couple; yet the gossip-simple continue to loudly condemn him, even going as far as to accost her. The ranters can not, will not believe that anyone is ever innocent once accused of a sexual crime, no matter how bogus the charges, and even if the alleged victim obviously isn't the victim at all.

Who, then, are the real perverts?

--bkl

[CO Liberal]

78. The Real Pervert is Woody Allen

End of story.

[Dogmudgeon]

81. End of Story

So is the noose at the end of the drop.

Leo Frank found out the hard way, too.

--bkl

[CO Liberal]

84. Why Are You Bringing Other People Into this Argument???

Fatty Arbuckle and Leo Frank were both innocent - Woody Allen is guilty of being a worthless, perverted, child-molesting SCUMBAG.

Deal with it.

[CatWoman]

72. man, the contortions you are makingTRYING to defute LOGIC and

the obvious!!!! your back must be a real wreck!!!

[Dogmudgeon]

75. No, not at all

It takes no contortion of logic to ignore recreational moral outrage, especially when the hate object is innocent of the crime.

I guess I just don't like the whole lynch mob mentality.

--bkl

[Placebo]

5. Brilliant!

And don't even try to suggest that he isn't.

[Marlie]

7. Brilliant

Especially his earlier works - Annie Hall, Manhattan, etc. He's
still great but earlier in his career he simply was the best.

[CO Liberal]

77. Funny That You Would Post a Pic of Abraham Lincoln in This Thread

Linclon was a bigot who thought that blacks were subhuman. His plan (had he lived) was to send them all back to Africa.

[Astrochimp]

8. Both. Mostly does crap, but his good stuff is Brilliant!

I thougth him so/so untill I saw What's Up, Tiger Lily? last summer.

[Gothic Sponge]

10. Brilliant

[htuttle]

11. Both

His early stuff was brilliant. Then his movies starting being all about Woody, and to be honest, he's not that interesting.

[Dogmudgeon]

15. Sweet and Lowdown wasn't autobiographical

It was one of his best, too.

--bkl

[htuttle]

19. Haven't seen that one

Maybe I'll give it a try.

I guess I just preferred the more slapstick/visual humor of Sleeper, Bananas, etc...

I still laugh my ass off at the Leader's Nose bit in Sleeper, and I've seen it about half a dozen times. The gun made out of soap and bootblack that starts lathering in "Take the Money and Run"? Hilarious.

Call me lowbrow.

:)

[Crunchy Frog]

29. Yes, I love his early stuff.

I've never had much use for anything that he's done since he stopped working with Diane Keaton.

I agree he's really fucked up, but that's alot of what gives his work its brilliance. I've been a fan (of his earlier work) since I was nine.

[Fenris]

12. Brilliant, without a doubt.

[CO Liberal]

13. Scumbag With Glasses

Regardless of what he has done artistically, the minute he started having sexual relations with his underaged daughter (a girl he help raise from an infant), that cancelled out anything positive about the man in my mind. For all intents and purposes, he committed incest.

Just as Charleton Heston's work with the NRA cancels out his marching alongside Martin Luthur King.

[Dogmudgeon]

22. That's nonsense

Soon-Yi Previn was adopted by Mia Farrow and Andre Previn when she was almost nine years old; she was born in 1970. Woody Allen didn't even meet her until she was in her mid-teens. The relationship didn't start until she was well into her adulthood.

The scandalous photos Mia Farrow found? Soon-Yi was then 21 years old.

The stories of incest came out of Mia Farrow's understandable emotional turmoil after the break-up. There isn't a shred of truth to them, and even Mia Farrow no longer tells them.

Woody married Soon-Yi when she was in her late 20s.

Are we really so "hungry for stink" that we'll make up stories about people we don't know? I guess we are.

--bkl

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dogmudgeon]

23. That's nonsense

Soon-Yi Previn was adopted by Mia Farrow and Andre Previn when she was almost nine years old; she was born in 1970. Woody Allen didn't even meet her until she was in her mid-teens. The relationship didn't start until she was well into her adulthood.

The scandalous photos Mia Farrow found? Soon-Yi was then 21 years old.

The stories of incest came out of Mia Farrow's understandable emotional turmoil after the break-up. There isn't a shred of truth to them, and even Mia Farrow no longer tells them.

Woody married Soon-Yi when she was in her late 20s.

Are we really so "hungry for stink" that we'll make up stories about people we don't know? I guess we are.

--bkl

[CO Liberal]

14. Scumbag With Glasses

Regardless of what he has done artistically, the minute he started having sexual relations with his underaged daughter (a girl he help raise from an infant), that cancelled out anything positive about the man in my mind. For all intents and purposes, he committed incest.

Just as Charleton Heston's work with the NRA cancels out his marching alongside Martin Luthur King.

[Mojambo]

16. I think I can separate the work from the man

And the work is undoubtably brilliant.

[CO Liberal]

18. I Can't

And the work is the work of a scumbag.

[Mojambo]

24. Well, that 's fine.

I guess the point is that scumbags can write brilliant screenplays.

On edit- Bill Clinton was an adulterer and a liar = He was a terrible president. Sound familiar?

[CO Liberal]

41. There's a Difference

BIll Clinton admitted his mistake - Woddy Allen married his mistake.

[CO Liberal]

60. And Another Difference

Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky were both consenting adults. Woody Allen was 35 years older than Soon Yi, and in a position of authority. That lands people behind bars in many states.

[Mojambo]

76. That doesn't address the central point

Both are men who excelled at their chosen profession and failed in their personal life.

I have no problem that you choose to forgive one and not the other. That's your business.

[CO Liberal]

79. I Just Don't Understand All these People Heaping Praise on Woody Allen

He's scum - plain and simple.

[Mojambo]

80. It's easier to understand

when you realize that they are not heaping praise on the man, but rather on his artistic contribution.

It's no big thing, there are certain actors and writers that I just can't stand either. But I try to judge them on the basis of their work and not issues related to their personal life. That enables me to say, "Yeah, Woody Allen might be a bad guy, but no that doesn't make him untalented."

[CO Liberal]

82. But He's Still a Scumbag

And I can't set that aside. After the Soon Yi incident I can never watch a Woody Allen movie without thinking of that - the same way I can never look at a movie with OJ Simpson in the same light as befotre he killed his ex-wife and her friend.

What's next for you people - a thread proclaiming Roman Polanski as a nice guy???? Give me a break!!!!

[Mojambo]

85. I agree. You can't set that aside.

Which means you have no business offering an opinion on his work. IMHO.

[CO Liberal]

86. And Because You CAN Set That Aside as If It Doesn't Matter....

...then YOU have no business offering an opinion on his work IMHO.

You can't separate the scumbag's work from the scumbag. They're one and the same.

[Mojambo]

87. Clearly I disagree.

That I could be considered not able to render an opinion on his work because I choose only to examine the merits of the ACTUAL work is an interesting position.

I can offer an opinion on his personal life if you wish.
He's a douchebag.

If you can show me where in his work this fact is displayed then we could pursue your premise.

It's not like the guy makes movies about molesting children for chrissakes. If he did, then you might be on to something.

Your position isn't rational, but you are certainly entitled to it.

I enjoyed discussing it in any event.

-M

[CO Liberal]

88. And The Priase for His Work In This Thread.....

...is equally irrational.

I consider everyone on this thread who defended Woody Allen to be totally irrational. He's a pedophilic, child-molesting scumbag. Deal with it.

[Mojambo]

89. He's a brilliant screenwriter.

Deal with it.
The truth is there is nothing that says he can't be both.

And by the way, feel free to consider me irrational by your standards.

[CO Liberal]

90. He's an Asshole Scumbag CHILD MOLESTER!!!!!!

That trumps everything else in his life.

Deal with THAT!!!!!!!!!

[Mojambo]

91. It's obvious you're becoming a bit worked up.

I'll leave you be.

[CO Liberal]

93. Only Because YOU WON'T LISTEN.

I'm done, too. I'm sure the mods are ready to lock this thread anyway.

Do me a favor - next time you compliment someone, make sure they're worthy. Scumbag Woody isn't.

[Mojambo]

94. I prefer a more broad minded approach

But good luck with that whole narrow minded thing!
;)

[Mist]

21. Brilliant, but fucked up human being

I've loved Allen's movies for years. His damage as a human being isn't going to change that. I was never really upset at his affair with the Korean step-daughter. She was of age, she's not his daughter, and since he never lived with Mia and her brood, she didn't view him as a parent. Tacky, but not heinous. HOWEVER, he has been found guilty of innappropriate behavior with his natural daughter, Dylan, I think her name is. He can't visit her without another another adult being present. SO, wonderful, funny film-maker, and fucked-up, damaged human being.

[St. Jarvitude]

25. I'm fairly sure he was only accused of "inappropriate behavior" with Dylan

But yeah... what he did to Mia Farrow is very, very slimy.

Can't say it impacted how I feel about his movies.

[Dookus]

27. He was never found guilty of any such thing...

It was merely an accusation made by Mia Farrow - and many innocent people are accused of such things during ugly break-ups.

[CO Liberal]

70. About Your "Accusation"...

From The Forensic Panel web site (http://echo.forensicpanel.com/1997/1/1/tabooromance.html):

* * * * *

In June, 1993, a court awarded custody of Moses, Dylan and Satchel to their mother, Mia Farrow, denying custody to their father, Woody Allen. Moses, who was then 15 years old, and unwilling to visit with his father, was not required to do so. Supervised visitation was ordered for Satchel, who was then five, for two hours, three times per week. Visitation between Mr. Allen and his daughter, Dylan, then seven, was to commence within six months, unless it interfered with therapeutic treatment or was "inconsistent with her welfare."

With the consent of both parties, a psychiatrist, Dr. Donna Moreau, was engaged as a neutral evaluator to make recommendations with respect to visitation. In her report of August 16, 1994, she concluded that Mr. Allen's severance of his sexual relationship with Ms. Farrow's daughter, Soon-Yi Previn, was an "absolute precondition for even beginning to think of the possibility of contact" between him and Dylan. She asserted that Mr. Allen was blind to the effect his affair had on Dylan.

In November, 1995, Mr. Allen moved to modify the order of visitation, requesting, inter alia, unsupervised visits with Satchel and phased-in visits with Dylan. In response, Dr. Hector Bird, who treated Dylan from 1993 to 1995, advised against forced visitation with Dylan, claiming that it would "at the very least generate an emotional upheaval to which ...should not be subjected and which may set her back in the gains she has made." He stated that Dylan remains adamant in her negative feelings toward Mr. Allen and in her desire not to see him, and that it stemmed from her perception of her father having, as she referred to it, a "boyfriend-girlfriend" relationship with her sister. Dr. Bird expressed concern that Mr. Allen had failed to acknowledge or consider this "critical factor" in her development. Mr. Allen then retained Dr. Paula Kernberg to assess the situation and recommend a visitation arrangement.

In a December, 1995 letter, Dr. Leonard Diamond, who has been Satchel's treating therapist since March, 1995, reported that Satchel dreaded visitation with his father, and was suffering from nightmares and stomach aches in anticipation. The doctor believed that Satchel's unwillingness to visit with Mr. Allen stemmed from anger toward him for disrupting his family (because of his relationship with Soon-Yi) and for memories of abusive behavior toward him by Mr. Allen. He concluded that Mr. Allen's physical absence didn't seem to be having any ill effect on Satchel's development while his presence did. In January, 1996, Satchel's teacher expressed concern over his mood and its effect on his ability to focus on his work. Dr. Diamond and Dr. Kernberg both agreed that Satchel's visits with Mr. Allen should be temporarily suspended.

Dr. Kemberg, in her May, 1996 report, concluded that the absence of Soon-Yi in Mr. Allen's home "in the structuring of visits is deceitful and causes more problems than it solves." She stated that both children are healthy enough to resume visits with Mr. Allen immediately, and without supervision.

Mr. Allen's request for a hearing was granted; it commenced on May 23, 1996. Dr. Kernberg's testimony was consistent with her report. Dr. Diamond's testimony reaffirmed his December 1995 conclusions. At the hearing, Mr. Allen suggested that with no more than one month of preparation, Satchel and Dylan, together, should visit him on alternate weekends without supervision and in the presence of Soon-Yi.
Held: Visitation with Satchel is to be resumed, in the presence of Dr. Diamond, in his Connecticut office, once per week, for one hour, for four consecutive weeks. The Court concluded that "he is resilient enough to resume visitation and articulate enough to express some of the reasons for his discomfort." But the Court denied Mr. Allen's request for visitation with Dylan. Said the Court, "Her therapeutic situation is still too fragile and unsettled to enable me to determine if or how contact with Mr. Allen should be initiated." In reaching his decision, Judge Wilk stressed the fact that Mr. Allen's suggestion of Soon-Yi being present during visitation "confirms that Mr. Allen still has little understanding or empathy with respect to the emotional well-being of his children." Said the Court, he "continues in his inability to acknowledge his role" in contributing to his children's suffering.

* * * * *

In other words, Woody Allen is a perverted scumbag, who refused to realize what a perverted scumbag he is, and refused to acknowledge the effect his preverted scumbaggedness has on others.

[Dogmudgeon]

28. The stuff with Dylan

Dylan was also adopted, and Woody was cleared of all charges. Mia Farrow also tried to make the case that he molested Satchel, his son, but that charge didn't even hold up in the discovery phase of the case (in other words, Farrow dropped it).

The stipulation of supervised visits for men (and men only) is very common and is a relic of the idea that all men are beasts unfit to care for children.

Mia Farrow was in shock and pain when her relationship with Woody Allen came to an end -- which is understandable. But believing wild (and untrue) tales of abuse is just a prettified way of getting some vicarious thrills.

--bkl

[CatWoman]

31. about Satchel, aka Seamus

# Her son Seamus was enrolled at Simon's Rock College at 11 years of age. He has not spoken to or seen his father since he was 7, and is said to have a phobia of him. He reportedly does not see him as his father, just as a man who had an affair with his sister. Seamus Farrow graduated from Bard College in 2004.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Farrow

[Dogmudgeon]

35. Not surprising

But if you're trying to imply it's because Woody commited a foul crime against the boy, you'll have to make a better case -- lots of kids turn against the non-custodial parent, whether the custodial parent initiates it or not.

Divorce, even when the marriage hasn't been sanctified by church and state, can be devastating for children, even in the best circumstances. I'm happy to hear that Seamus/Satchel's getting on well in life, at least enough to complete college.

Simon's Rock, eh? I know a couple of "Simon's Rockers". A little older than Seamus/Satchel, but they graduated between 1983 and 1990. A lot of messed-up kids go there and become non-messed-up. It seems to be a good place.

--bkl

[Dukakis88]

34. I can't figure out his hairline.

He was balding in his youth, and has maintained the same hairline ever since. It hasn't gone any further since then. He must have signed a pact with the devil at some point.

[American Tragedy]

40. He should have made a vanity pact a hell of a lot sooner

cause as far as I'm concerned the damage is done.

[American Tragedy]

39. There was this one sequence in Annie Hall that I loved

When Woody Allen is standing in front of the pretentious guy who is loudly expounding on Marshall McLuhan and Allen finally gets sick of it and tells him to shut up. The man replies that he is an expert in the subject, and Allen turns and grabs Marshall McLuhan himself, who just happens to be standing about ten feet away. McLuhan tells the guy that he clearly doesn't know anything about his work. Woody Allen looks straight into the camera and says, "Don't you wish real life was like this?"

[Dogmudgeon]

50. A re-make would really require Jacques Derrida

Unfortunately, Derrida died recently. Quel dommage!

--bkl

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

63. Smart Child Molester

Never got arrested.

[Deja Q]

83. Once brilliant, but any post-'Annie Hall' movie is more psycho than funny.

His pre-Hall era was deliciously subvert in a less-than-permissive society; he'd make sexual innuendos as outrageous yet as timid as they could be at the same time.

Yes, he was brilliant.

And "Annie Hall" was his final great work.

Subsequent movies, whether they had a lot of comedy in them or not, just became weirder and weirder.

His only early-era flop was "Everything you always wanted to know about sex", where none of the 7 vignettes was funny. It might have been in 1973, but unlike his other movies that still leave me laughing uproariously, "Everything" has truly dated badly.

[warrens]

92. Frankly, he was a better stand-up comedian

His first four or five movies were pretty great. I've stopped even watching anything he makes. There's only so much material available in examining the lives of angst-ridden upper East Side Jewish intellectuals. He burned it out a long time ago.