This flies in the face of the "homosexuality is genetic" argument, but...

[UdoKier]

Isn't it odd how many right-wing folks have gay or lesbian kids compared to left-wing kids?

Let's say that a certain percentage off homosexuality is caused by environmental factors - could it be the right-wingers' insistence on the superficial always being "perfect" (while behind closed doors everything is hell), as well as their oppressively puritanical values regarding sex be a factor in this?

All these rightwingers have Gay children;

Dick Cheney
Newt Gingrich
Anita Bryant
Lucianne Goldberg
B-1 Bob Dornan
(I know there are a lot more - this is just off the top of my head)

And it seems that a great many of the gay people I've known have come from VERY conservative/religious homes. Relatively few from very liberal homes.

Is this a silly theory?

[MattG]

1. hmmmm

I've noticed it too. I heard Jenna Bush did some stuff with some girls one time, but she was probably drunk.

[krkaufman]

2. Or maybe extreme right-wingers....

... are so extreme because they're people who can't accept their own genetic wiring, and so become unhinged -- emotionally and rationally. :)

[bushisanidiot]

9. Yep. It's the homophobes who rant the loudest who are closeted gays

so it is genetic, IMHO.

[johnnie]

3. I've noticed that also

I've never really looked into it, but I have noticed the same thing.

[DebJ]

4. I think it is simply more memorable when they come from RW

homes.

[Bunny]

10. I think that's the correct answer.

I think we notice it more when these people have gay children, because their hypocrisy then becomes that much more glaring.

[Misunderestimator]

30. Thanks... That's what I was gonna say.

[KurtNYC]

5. I dont think that contradicts genetics

There is a truism from Greek times which says: The oppressed oppress.

Another says "All things hidden from the light decay."

You put those together and you have some strange politics.

[nickinSTL]

6. I don't think homosexuality is genetic, exactly

It's a matter of a number of prenatal factors.

Genetics might play a part, but it's not the only factor.

The most recent stuff I've seen (which could be a bit dated now) suggests that prenatal hormones may play a large role.

[trof]

27. Have you read "Brain Sex"?

Goes into (and supports) the hormonal theory.

[nickinSTL]

36. No, just journal articles

n/t

[Liberal Veteran]

7. Actually, it SUPPORTS the "homosexuality is genetic"....

...argument more than anything.

It's most likely not a genetic trait that is passed directly down like hair color or skin color, but more of a trait such as left handed people being born to right handed parents.

The fact that it seems to occur as often in right wing "traditional" upbringings as "godless left-wing valueless" upbringings says there is something much greater at work than nurture.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

8. I still think a person is either

hetero, homo or bi.

I just don't buy that there are necessarily environmental factors. Those of us who are hetero DO get that reinforced by our hetero-oriented society, but that just argues even more that there really shouldn't be any homosexuals if it is just environmental.

The reason I think it is genetic is because you can't just MAKE yourself have a different sexual orientation. Oh sure if you really wanted to you could FORCE yourself to have sex with someone of a gender you aren't normally attracted to, but could you fall in love with them?

That's the kicker.

[gratuitous]

17. There are two types of people in the world

Those that divide people into two types, and those that don't. I belong to the latter.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

24. ROFL!

[tjwash]

34. There are three types of people in this world...

...those that can count and those that can't.

[kick-ass-bob]

11. I think everyone has some homosexuality in them.

Just in differing amounts...

[Worst Username Ever]

14. You look very attractive with that upside down american flag.

I mean.. um.. nevermind.

[kick-ass-bob]

19. I am a sexy mutha.

[ogradda]

12. i have a question

what difference does it make why anyone is homosexual? i mean, other than a certain scientific curiosity? other than that, DOES it matter?

[bushisanidiot]

15. Sorry, I misread your post

delete, delete, delete. ;)

[UdoKier]

18. Well, it strikes me as funny that...

Their very anti-gay values and rhetoric may actually be subtly pushing their own offspring towards homosexual identification.

( I agree that you can't change a "gay " kid or a "straight" kid, but a huge number are bi, and such societal facotrs may have more influence on which way they end up leaning.


For instance, if you were Mary Cheney, and you grew up with DICK as your male role model, wouldn't that alone put you off men somewhat?

[ogradda]

23. yurk!

now i feel sorry for her lynn and dick cheney as parents would be awful :(

[salvorhardin]

I think you're missing the most obvious explanation

GLBT children of well known right-wingers are either outed or just plain covered in the mass media more frequently than GLBT children of not-so-well-known right wingers because our culture is sick. I mean, let's face it, our culture gets off on the titliation of the "deviant behavior" of children of famous people as a rule.

Most likely, the children of well known right-wingers are GLBT in the same porportion as the rest of the population. It just gets promoted into the public consciousness more.

[UdoKier]

20. But it seems very common with my acquaintances too.

90% or more say "my parents were furious when I came out" or "they cut me off" or "they took it really hard".

Not many people say "Oh yeah, my parents were totally cool with it."

Is it just that 90% of parents have these values about sex (even though they may otherwise be democrats)? Is America THAT conservative? My parents didn't raise me to look down on other races or gays, and they're Texans, for pete's sake.

[Worst Username Ever]

13. Homosexuality is only partially genetic, if it is at all.

Otherwise identical twins (who share the EXACT same genes) would either both be gay or both be straight, but there are numerous instances when they differ.

Personally, I think it is a combination of genetics and societal factors that influence everything about who we are, including our sexual preference.

[ismnotwasm]

16. Maybe they stand out

Because they come from such conservative families, but not necessarily from it--as in some sort of reactionary sexuality. In other words, we hear about it more when Gay People come from such backgrounds. It seems to me the Gay People I know come from mixed backgrounds, but I wouldn't know the actual statistical breakdown. One thing for sure, coming out to one's family is often so intensely painful, so incredibly personal that it must affect the entire rest of your life. So family reaction counts for much.

[nofurylike]

21. ha ha! saying rt wing, neocon, fundie ARE genetic? ha ha! n/t

born that way
made that way
born
made

is it a culture
or a disease?


:)

spoke by dis radical dyke


peace!


*edit peace :)

[UdoKier]

22. There are also a lot of kids coming from same-sex parents now...

..and they don't seem any more likely to be gay than the society at large...

[lightbulb]

25. The idea of a hereditary "gay gene" is silly

From an evolutionary perspective. Natural selection chooses for traits which promote species survival through successful reproduction. Attraction to one's own gender doesn't exactly promote reproduction, so any sort of "gay lineage" would quickly be selected against and disappear from the gene pool. So the science behind being gay is more complex than it being a simple inherited genetic trait.

[Courtesy Flush]

28. I disagree (sort of)

You may be right, but I disagree with your logic.

Human society has always pressured people to fit the mold, and to have children. For this reason, a homosexual gene (if there is one) would have been passed on over time. I've known a few gay men who have married and had children, only to come out of the closet later. Years ago, they just stayed in the closet.

If there is a homosexual gene, it is only now becoming endangered, since gays are now free to be themselves (for the most part. We're not there 100% yet). They are now less likely to have biological children then at any point in history.

Again, I'm not saying there's a gay gene, but if there is, the above applies. I don't feel that homosexuality is a choice. I've known homosexuals who truly did not want to be. Gays really are gay. It's not something they can be talked out of, or cured from. Heaven help us if they find a gay gene and start screening for it. We'd all lose.

As for conservatives having gay kids... that's not genes. That's karma.

[nofurylike]

29. the missing piece in that:

natural selection promotes continuity of species, not individuals.

non-reproducing individuals promote that continuity. that is why same-sex in all mammalian species.

anthropologists starting to look for role of those non-reproducing members of species.

eg, protecting mothers, children...

consider that gays and lesbians throughout much recorded time have fulfilled the need for dedicated professionals.

the 'parents' of societies, cultures, tribes, villages, communities, and so on.



peace

[hunter]

31. The idea of a "gay gene" is NOT silly

Let's say the "gay" gene is recessive. (It's more complicated than that, but let's just do this for example.) Most genes control a multitude of things, not just one trait like eye color, or anything obvious like that.

There is some evidence that a hypothetical "gay" gene increases human fertility. Thus people who have one (hypothetical) recessive "gay" gene are not gay, but they may have many more children than people who do not have the "gay" gene. Thus the "gay" gene is maintained in the population.

Even if that's not the case, in some societies it may increase a child's odds of surviving if he or she has a homosexual or bisexual relative.

I myself think these genetic arguments are interesting, but useless as a foundation for our legal system. If people simply decide to be homosexuals (which is clearly not the case for most people) our legal system must still protect their rights, including their right to marry another person of the same sex.

[lightbulb]

33. OK, perhaps the word 'silly' is totally inappropriate

And I do apologize for using it. I also understand and agree with your point that gene's are usually not 1-bit circuits that work like a light switch.

I'm just suggesting that the idea of a gay gene becoming dominant in any given extended family is a really strange one. Some people seem to be suggesting this by postulating that these conservatives have gay kids because they are closet gays themselves.

To be clear, I'm not of the "homosexuality is a choice" school at all; I believe there are genetic factors involved. I also happen to be bisexual. ;)

[nofurylike]

35. that is very interesting. have to think more on that aspect. thank you. n/

[MaineYooper]

37. behavior is a complex trait

as you say, many genes control (affect is probably a better term) many different features. Similarly, almost no traits, especially something as complex as a behavior, are controlled by a single gene. Such traits, commonly referred to as "complex traits," are affected by an interacting network of many genes.

I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice, by the way. I just think it's rather unlikely that we'll find one gene controlling it. It's more likely that it's a combination of the interactions of multiple factors along with environmental and developmental conditions.

[trof]

26. Even on a personal level.

Know three couples with gay kids.
Each couple has one gay child, one straight.
All parents support Bush.
Go figure.
BTW, the gay kids are a lot more interesting and fun to discuss politics with.

[tjwash]

32. The people on that list...

...are all big time in the closet. How else can you explain why they all think it's a choice? They are fighting their true feelings each and every day, so for them it IS a choice.

[terrya]

38. That list only points to the hypocrisy of these people.

Homosexuality is genetic. It transcends race, ethincity, economic class, religion...and political thinking.

Dick Gephardt's daughter, Chrissy, is lesbian. And that's a liberal home.

On you orginal list...you can also add Phyllis Schafly, who's son, John, is gay.