So, isn't this insulting to men? Another thread

[cally]

I've been thinking about this thread for a few days. A few suggested that 17 or 18 year old males only think about sex and that a teen girl is not safe with any male. Teens may be obsessed with sex, but where does that lead? Men (and women) think about sex but that does not mean that most will do anything that is inappropriate to have sex.

I know, I know. Some do. Date rape is prevalent. Family members rape. Too many women have been sexually abused or raped. But, I just can't accept the idea that all males, or most, don't know the difference. I think we are making a huge mistake to even imply that men/boys can't control their sexual impulses. It allows the deviants to think their rapes are normal.

oops: The thread that got me thinking: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=1413914#1414137

[slinkerwink]

1. men definitely CAN control themselves...they have a brain, after all

stupid idiots who try to excuse their crimes by using "hormones"....ugh.

[rock]

8. Yes, trotting out "hormones" is as sickening as

(dare I say it) PMS.

[LastKnight]

2. offensive, yes.

but then again. all generalities are. and thats what that thread is full of pretty much. and the sad fact is, the generality is completely wrong, most guys my age (im an 18 y.o. male, btw if anyone didnt know) wouldnt take advantage of a 15 year old, its just the few that would/do that give us all that reputation.

so... yea its offensive. but i know it doesnt apply to me. so i dont really care.

-LK

[cally]

11. Thanks

It doesn't apply to you or most men. A few, yes, but it is a few. Thanks for responding.

[Bunny]

3. You are right.

Most men and boys would not ever rape or otherwise sexually assault a woman or girl. They just wouldn't, because it is not in their moral fiber.

And perpetuating the myth that males simply cannot control themselves only excuses the bad behavior of the minority. And leads to Taliban-like societies where woman are made to cover themselves lest they use their demonic wiles to tempt the men.

[NewJeffCT]

20. I knew it - women are demons!

Please, protect me from my 95 pound wife! she's using her demonic feminine wiles to brainwash me!

All kidding aside, I agree with you. It is not in the fiber of most men. I had an opportunity in college where an attractive girl that I really liked was drunk and had just pulled up her shirt to show me her breasts, and I did not take advantage of her because she was drunk. (she was too quick and I was kind of stunned when she pulled up her shirt, though, as in, "she's not really going to do it")

[Susang]

4. I agree wholeheartedly

It implies that men are no more than the sum of their biological urges. If I were a man and heard those opinions being spewed about my gender, I'd be mightily pissed off.

[Blue-Jay]

5. I don't get pissed off.

I've heard that sort of crap for so long, it doesn't phase me anymore. I just immediately discount them as being too stupid to deserve an audience.

[Susang]

6. A healthy attitude to take

Unfortunately, I've noticed a lot of people here recently who buy into that theory, and it was rather disturbing to me. :scared:

[rene moon]

7. Sadly, even some men buy into that

It is evident on DU--like last week's gender wars.

[Solly Mack]

9. You can't judge all of any "group" by the actions of some within a "group"

It's a disservice to both men and women.

I'm not going to raise my daughter that "all" men are predators. I'm certainly not going to raise a son around such thinking. There are bad people in the world...bad...PEOPLE.


Certainly men can control sexual impulses. Women can as well. But we battle against those who don't understand rape isn't about sex...it's about violence, power, and control...sex is the weapon used. So some people perpetuate the all too sexist notion of "boys will be boys" by saying men can't control themselves and attempt to keep the crime of rape framed in sexual terms. Rape is a crime of violence and control..it's got nada to do with the over-active hormones of a teenager..of either gender.

Raging hormones don't cause anyone to rape. The need to control and dominate does. Date rape is about control...child molestation..control...prison rape..control...teachers screwing their students...control ....sex is the method to gain the control..to dominate...to hurt.

It's unfair to all the decent men in the world to suggest all men are predators or that all men are potential rapists...when these men don't have the remotest desire to rape anyone. It's unfair to women as well. There is an enemy out there...but it's a mutual enemy. One that brings harm to men and women alike.

[cally]

10. Yep

We all do a insult men when we imply that they cannot control their desire for sex. I completely agree with your post.

[Marvelous_Smarty]

12. Men can't control their sexual urges

anymore than women can keep themselves from spending our money.

[slinkerwink]

13. total bullshit

I don't spend any man's money. I spend my own money and I'm on a tight budget. How dare you buy into the stereotype that women are huge spenders?

[Marvelous_Smarty]

15. To harp on another cliche...

What is the matter? That time of the month? :) Apparently you missed the facetiousness and sarcasm of my post. I was just posting it as an example of how silly these cliches are no matter from which side.


I am kidding about the time of the month thing, also.

[slinkerwink]

16. it's not the time of the month thing...

[JVS]

17. Stop it.

[Marvelous_Smarty]

19. Okay,

My attempt at ironic humor fell flat. I'll just apologize to the thread in general and Slinkerwink specifically. Sorry, Slinker.

[comsymp]

23. FWIW, Some of us got your humor

... and got a chuckle out of it. Humor, as you've just been reminded, is pretty subjective here- pretty much like everywhere else.

[cally]

22. Thanks, JVS

My sentiments exactly

[comsymp]

24. Ummm, you should probably reread his post...

Unless you actually believe the first half about men not being able to control urges, you and he are on the same page.

[JVS]

14. I agree with you

[HuckleB]

18. Good point.

I could surmise why such suggestions are made, but that would be mere supposition, though supposition via experience. Nonetheless, most 17 and 18 year old boys/men can control themselves, do control themselves, and are nervous as shit about what to do if they are with someone who wants to do something, so let's let a little reality into the picture. Thanks for doing just that.

[realisticphish]

21. I'm an 18 yo male

and hell yeah, we think about sex all the freakin time. any guy that says otherwise is lying. But neither I nor all but a very few guys I know would take advantage of a girl (drunk, or just forced) to get sex. Like the poster said, it happens. But the majority of guys don't think like that; we do care about how women feel, we listen, we have conversations. don't take the standard sitcom idea of a husband or boyfriend as a real example.

edit: Not that anyone here was, I was just stating it generally


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. I don't think it's necessarily offensive to men, just being realistic

about teenage boys and girls.

The combination of hormones and impulsiveness can be, as SoCalDem said, a matter of "gasoline, meet match." Teens can be extraordinarly unable to consider the consequences of their actions, and with their lack of life experience, they also tend to think, "Nothing bad can happen to me."

Maybe he's an unusually mature and responsible 18-year-old male and she's an unusually mature and responsible 15-year-old female, and maybe they're intellectual and emotional soul mates who will love each other till the end of time, but the odds are against it.

Given both their boiling hormones and the typical romantic fantasies of a 15-year-old, they shouldn't be alone in a house. If they mind having a parent around, especially if HE objects to having a parent around, the parents should be suspicious.

Having reread the thread above, I want to emphasize that I DON'T think that the 18-year-old will rape the 15-year-old. But they might both get carried away and have unprotected sex.

[EstimatedProphet]

26. Well put

It's simply not true that men "can't help themselves" because they're men. That's absurd. It's also an attempt at shirking responsibility in both male and female cases that use the argument-male because then men get an automatic free pass to do whatever they want: "It's my hormones baby! I'm a man!", and women because it's a blanket condemnation that allows prejudice: "Men are pigs, so why even bother to trust them?"

It amazes me that in the 21st century people would believe such things.

[Nikia]

27. It is but I admit that I tend to think this way too

There are men who I don't consider probable rapists, but I tend to assume that they are potential rapists until I know them well enough to know otherwise. I don't know the exact statistics but something like 1 in 3 women has been or will be raped in her life, most by a man who she knows. Many of these rapists are repeat offenders, but I would not say that it is rare for a man to be a rapist. It is even less rare for an older teenager boy to say a bunch of lies to encourage a younger teenage girl to sleep with him and then dump her shortly afterwards.
I see what you are saying about that way of thinking encourages us to think of rapes as normal, but the fact is that rape is common. I don't think that being cautious is a bad thing.

[cally]

28. Too many women are raped

but most men abhor rape. There was a time in my life where I hated all men when I had read all the statistics on rape and why it happens. I was wrong and I think all of us who say that all men are potential rapists are completely wrong. It is not true and it dismisses all of our humanity. Most men I know think rape is abhorrent. Pressuring women for sex is OK but there is a line.

I don't think caution is a bad thing. It's necessary.