Pastor Said He Doesn't Believe In God - Lands In Court

[matcom]

<snip>

A PASTOR in Denmark's state Lutheran Protestant Church who caused a stir last year by saying he did not believe in God will face an ecclesiastic court to explain himself, the Justice Ministry said.

The court, consisting of one judge and two theologists, will decide whether pastor Thorkild Grosboell's declarations were incompatible with his position as pastor.

Elsinore Bishop Lise-Lotte Rebel has accused Grosboell of sowing "deep confusion within the Church" with his comments, which were first published in a newspaper interview in May 2003 and which he has continued to express since then.

In the interview he was quoted as saying that he did not believe in God, resurrection or eternal life.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10124354%255E13762,00.html

[demnan]

1. I'm sure he's not the only one

I've always gotten the impression that plenty of the clergy don't believe in God any more than I do but they like the cushy job and the benefits, including a nice rent-free house.

It's really a very easy job for all that. You just have to be kind to people and spout off some bullshit once a week or so inbetween hymns.

[arwalden]

2. You're Probably Correct... I'll Bet That The Percentage Is Higher With...

... TELEVANGELISTS!! I'd be willing to bet that a MAJORITY of televangelists are atheists and are just actors who are in it for the money. -- But then again, I have very little regard for any of them so my comments may be a little biased.

-- Allen

[Beware the Beast Man]

3. I can see that happening

But I have to disagree with you on the cushy job with benefits angle, demnan. I'm sure a lot of these guys are expected to handle multiple crises at the same time, often putting their own personal concerns behind those of their parishioners. It's sort of the same principle that drives therapists and psychologists to mental illness. It's enough to make anyone lose their faith.


EDIT: To clean up my point, I just wanted to add: they're expected to be the pillar of strength for dozens (or hundreds, or thousands) of others. That's pretty strssful, if you don't have what it takes to do the job.

[demnan]

5. Well, you're talking about the good ones

and I'm sure they exist. I've seen a few but not many empathetic ministers. The ones I've seen aren't much good in a crisis.

[Beware the Beast Man]

7. Point taken

Sounds like this guy in particular, if the tone of the article is honest, was just along for the ride.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. As a preacher's kid, I agree that it's NOT a cushy job

If you're in a small parish, there's a constant struggle to keep things going financially, and you're administering a bunch of charitable and educational programs with perhaps only part-time clerical help. You are the person of first resort if a parishioner is in any kind of trouble, everything from bereavement to arrest. People with no connection with the church come to you for help off the streets, and you have to figure out what you can do for them or where to send them for help. You are fully responsible for preaching every Sunday. (Do you want to give a 20-minute speech every week 52 weeks a year plus holidays?) Whatever you do, it is guaranteed that a segment of the congregation will hate your guts and try to drive you out. You're lucky if you make as much as a public schoolteacher.

If you're in a large parish, you get paid more, but you have correspondingly more responsibilities.

Besides, the free housing is a thing of the past, and even when it existed, it wasn't such a great deal, because it was like having a slum lord. We lived in parsonages when I was growing up, and we had to petition the church council to get repairs made. If they wren't emergencies, we could wait a good long time. My parents lived in one parsonage for 18 years, and it wasn't repainted until the 15th year, when the parishioners across the street complained to the church council that the place was becoming an eyesore.

When my brothers and I were children, the money rarely lasted to the end of the month. On the last few days, we typically ate canned soup and Bisquick pancakes.

Denmark and the other European countries that have state churches are a different matter. For all I know, they may be paid very well.

However, neither my brothers nor I had any interest at all in entering the clergy.

[bloodyjack]

4. where do you find this stuff?

i think i might owe you the rest of my adult life.

[truthspeaker]

6. This is actually an interesting church-state case

Denmark has an established national religion (Lutheran), so Lutheran pastors are government employees.

Danish law forbids firing a state employee because of their religious beliefs.

[Az]

9. A lot of clergy start off truebelievers but

Hardline exposure to the contradictions can cause many to lose their faith. They still feel a connection to their congregation and fully understand their need for belief and thus they serve them as best they can.

During my debating days a large number of atheist debaters came from the ranks of fallen clergy or aspirants of the clergy. Close reading of the doctrine combined with other factors would shatter their fervant belief. After that a reexamination of the belief led to their further removal of belief.

A loss of belief in god does not necissarily lead to a rejection of the community that has formed around that belief. A member of the clergy is a leader to these people. They often will see the import of that community as taking priority over their own personal beliefs and serve the position rather than pursuing a pyric victory by championing hte absolute truth.