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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:37 PM
Original message
Another trek movie, says Michael Dorn?
http://www.trektoday.com/news/220803_03.shtml


According to Dorn, the key to reviving big screen Trek is simple: "All they have to do is go back and do another film like Star Trek: First Contact and everything would be fine. That was just a perfect Star Trek movie."

:eyes:

Another travesty like "First Contact" indeed, which sacrificed drama and tension for cheap comedy and a time travel plot not worth the drivel it was based on... Picard being the antithesis of himself and killing everyone he sees when it's likely it's the same crew that saved his worthless ass when HE was borgified didn't help either... Sorry, "First Contact" turned all the characters into cheap exploitable trash, exploiting some Voyager actors for good measure too...

Dorn doesn't get it, but not for the reasons I've mentioned:

Hey Dorn, try this instead: Get rid of Berman and co. and bring in a NEW production team for pity's sake!!! It's been 15+ years with Berman. If the Kirk era had Fred Freiberger and Gene Coon instead of Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer, would it have survived? (nothing against the TOS TV producers, I love their work)

Trek needs a FRESH FACE. Not another greedy soulless rehash made by the same greedy soulless team.

Jeez, John Nathan-Turner produced 44 Dr. Who stories over 9 years and people hated him by that time. We've had Berman for 15 years and something like 500 episodes, a lot of which are rehashes and rewrites of the same material! :eyes: ven JNT can't take credit for reusing the same plot 75 times over (though two 7th Doctor stories are rather similar...)
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'll bet you
dress up and go to conventions too hmmmm?

Klingon? Romulan? Ferengi?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dorn gets it....
The most successful Trek movies have been the ones with space battles. They make the most money. That is the bottom line.

If the Trek honchos gave a rats ass what die hard trekkies thought, they'd make movies just for that small group. Forunately they have a broader audience in mind.

What Dorn, though, is doing is floating a rumor to see what kind of interest is gets.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Space battles
are just shoot-em-ups in space.

Galactic war movies..or cop shows with less scenery.

NOT what most people watch sci-fi for.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. But the record shows those are the most successful trek movies...
...and the fav episodes.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Who with??
Everybody trashes the movies...and only hardcore 'trekkies' not 'trekkers' go to see them in the first place.

I loved Star Trek for years, but never attend the movies.

Teenage boy drek is what they are. Comic book stuff...not Sci-fi
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. With the movie going public...
Edited on Wed Aug-27-03 09:07 PM by wyldwolf
Wrath of Kahn, The Undiscovered Country, and First Contact (and The Voyage Home) were box office hits and got rave critical reviews.

So, everyone didn't trash the movies. Hate to break it to you.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/search/movie.php?search=Trek&searchby=movies
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The movie going public
doesn't go to star trek movies...only trekkies do

And on many trek sites...even they trash the movies.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Now you're rationalizing...
Edited on Wed Aug-27-03 09:24 PM by wyldwolf
Everybody trashes the movies...and only hardcore 'trekkies' not 'trekkers' go to see them in the first place.

I showed you that, without question, everyone DOES NOT trash them. Now, show me where everyone does?

You also show a lack of understanding of the terms "trekkies" and "trekkers."

The movie going public doesn't go to star trek movies...only trekkies do

What a silly statement. Trekkies don't make up 70 - 100 million dollars in box office take.




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NekoChris Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. HELLA
Edited on Wed Aug-27-03 08:54 PM by NekoChris
Star Trek Movie + Tons of Space Fights = I WILL GO SEE

I foam at the mouth for a good starship battle in any setting.

On Edit: .. I um, like, shoot-em-ups in Space? ^^

That's not ALL I like, but, um yeah.

*makes X-Wing noises*
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. LOL well then Star Wars
is more your type of movie...it's a western in space.

Even to the black and white clothing types, and the funny sidekicks.
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PeakOil2008 Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. If the Trek honchos really gave a rats ass what die hard trekkies thought
They would've let Marina Sirtis (Counselor Troi) pose in her Betazoid Birthday Suit for Playboy back during her most nubile years. B-) Actually, Sirtis really did consider posing naked for the fans, but TPTB threatened to write her out of TNG if she did. What a loss, eh?

On a more serious note, I agree with the original post: If ever there is to be any improvement in the Star Trek franchise, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga absolutely must go. Fire them! And I say let a couple of die-hard, Roddenberry-revering fans take over. They should start by time-warping/alternate universing out (a la DC Comics Earth II/Earth I) the damage done since the end of TNG's Season 4/beginning of Season 5, including DS9 and Voyager. Begin anew with a brand-new crew approximately 50 years after TNG -- the "next-next generation" -- onboard the NCC 1701-F. You can still have occasional guest appearances from Riker, Worf, Geordi and Co. Heck, even bring in Data and Captain Kirk for a cameo. Remember, in an alternate, non-Berman timeline, they are both still very much alive.
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Oh how far we have come.
Perhaps she should talk to the gall who playes TaPal on Enterprise. I will hand her one thing, she can fall on her boobs on cue better than I could.

I am not so hard on Rick. My additued is, give him a nice watch and retire him. TS is becoming to formulaic of late. With absolutly no crativity. Half the seans may as well flash the words "The CEO's thought you might pay money to see this" over the screen.

I don't mean to brag, but I play in the Star Trek role play comunity, and they have a hell of a lot more crativity than the in house folks have.

What if the next movie was something a little closer to home. To give us an idea of what life on Earth is like. Maybe a political drama in Parie? (Paris is sapose to be the capital of the Federation. I think.)
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I think the capital of the Federation is San Francisco...
...or is that just Starfleet?

Anyway - what would YOU do to revitalize the franchise?
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Oh you will regret asking me that. ( ^-^)

Oh yay. As a writer, AND a fan of Star Trek, I do indeed have ideas to take to the floor running, if given a chance. Three in fact.

USS Mystery
A Grissom class starship thought lost with all hands as the ship just disappeared on a routine exploration mission. But 15 years later, turns up in tact in Federation space. Given a refit, and a new crew, the Mystery sets out again on a new mission, only to lean that its old one is far from finished. The new crew discovers that the last crew may be alive, but in desperate need of rescue. They also discover a dimensional portal logged in the hanger bay that could whisk the crew to places unknown, or fling the whole ship to whole new Galaxies. As all focus on one goal, find the original crew, and return them home. While for ever being leery that a similar fate may await them.

I have a special affinity for Mystery for it was a real ship. Real being relative that is any way. It was launched by Soul Fleet as a platform for role play. And as its third in command, I have a great deal of influence over how it evolved. It had all of the makings for a great platform, but the higher ups despised it and saw to it that the platform died a slow lingering death.

What would set it apart however, would be the central mission. Such themes are a staple for anime, and we have seen it also used with the X-Files. While we still have stand alone episodes, a few episodes will advance the over all story closer to their goal.

The Screaming Rebel
This is more of a ship and crew sort of thing. But both are civilian, opening up the possibilities to both crew and mission that you couldn't take with a Starfleet ship. The crew that I have includes an Animal Slave Woman, a midget New Yorker with that classic New York chip on his shoulder, a young "terminally cute" Japanese girl right out of vocational school (a bow to anima) and a yeoman who is in fact a refugee from a pre-industrial world, who is only trying to get home. (Something start fleet will not allow, because she now has knowledge that could change her own world.)

All though this is a civilian ship, it still follows a relatively standard model. But it would set some distance from Starfleet, allowing the exploration of character relations we saw on DS9 who are not exactly chummy.

Destiny
A busty young girl who is becomes stuck with a powerful non-corporeal being that for his own reasons, sees to it that she is far more powerful that she looks. Together, the two are compelled to travel the galaxy, being good Samaritans, and to right the wrongs perpetrated by Kull, an arisen Witch from Klingon mythology who has sworn to slay all of Kayless's followers.

You can almost smell Zena all over this one. And it's not by accident. If I had my say on this, there would be a large cast of guest characters, with each one being unique, larger than life, and unforgettable. Just simply exploring the known worlds that we know of, and some new ones. Earth, Vulcan, Kronos, Romulus, wherever.

But…. It ain't the platforms. And it ain't the ideas.
Okay, so now that I got all of that self promotion out of the way. We can now get to some of the REAL problems facing Star Trek. It isn’t the new ideas, but the absolute aversion to new ideas. Heck, Paramount seems to have an aversion to decent writers on the Star Trek staff. For some strange reason, they seem to think that X soap opera writers right good Star trek. What they right, is lost of two Characters talking to each other about the alien's feelings. And they KNOW they are in trouble because they are deliberately trying to throw out the tired old sex-bomb.

Now I have nothing against attractive, buxom, female characters in skin suites. But I haven't drooled over a chick falling on her boobs senses I was 18. And sticking a fake nipple on a guys writs AIN'T SEXY. It's stupid. But that is what the CORPORATION thinks people want to see. Some CEO with a chip on his shoulder came bouncing into the story board room and said "lets stick a nipple on tucker's wrist," then brakes his arm patting himself on the back for his genius. And woe is the writer that dares challenge the guy. I have read Rick himself complain about the manipulation from the top. And the manipulation is less about the stuff you see on TV, but the stuff you will never see because it doesn’t match with the advertiser's sensibilities. The floor is littered with victims of censorship.

The gay community has been pushing for YEARS to have an openly gay character. I am no fan of the gay cause, but they DO have a point. Star Trek took the chance with Nichel Nickels in the 60's. We may find that camp today, but Rodembary got DEATH THREATS from the Klan for that to put it in perspective. The racial tension was also so bad that Nicekls herself was thinking of leaving the show until Marten Luther King Jr. talked her out of it. This was a gutsy move. But Paramount's guts must now be full of beer because they have nixed the character over and over and over again. He was nixed for DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. So that should give you some idea of the board room mentality taking place.

One of the oldest rules of tensile town is "scandal sells." But you still have to have the guts to take the risk. And just like the rest of corporate America, Paramount is risk averse.

PS: I looked it up. According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, Paris France, Earth is listed as the location of the office of the President of the Federation Council. Which was established with STVI: The Undiscovered Country. Another little tidbit, there is an outdoor cafe in view of the President's office that Jean-Luc once broke a date at. TNG: We'll Always Have Paris.

San Francisco, ironically, doesn’t have an entry. But Starfleet Academy is listed at being at San Francisco.
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BigMcLargehuge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Riddle me this Code_Name_D
Is the D in your code name "David" as a last name?...

You sound like someone in the Trek universe whose work I've read.
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Nope
My nick is actualy inspired from Anima. Project Ako, which fethures the advantures of Superman and Superwoman's secrit love child that they hide out in Graviton City Japan. (Must be one hell of a comute. Still wondering where the red hair came from. Me thinks old Clark Kent didn't have as much to do with this as one might think.)

Any way, one of the names of the charicters on the show is "Agent 234517423134236833, code name D." Or just D for short.

And unfortuanly, I haven't managed to publish any thing. So any simularities between me and David is purly coincdental. (Or so the Judge told me. :evilfrown: Ah well.)
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I thought Harry Kim might bat for the other team.
To borrow some slang from the other side of the Pond. Notice he NEVER gets any, and I find it hard to believe it's because he's nerdy.

My preference for a Trek movie would be a return to a 1960's look and feel. Maybe there's an unused script laying around in Majel Roddenberry's attic somewhere. Original characters, new actors, original Enterprise. Smooth-pated Klingons, green women, and a plucky female yeoman with a crush on Mr. Spock.

Can we capture lightning in a bottle one more time? Hey! That sounds like a kewl tag line!
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PeakOil2008 Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Starfleet is based in San Fran...
...While the Capital of Earth is Paris :)

You know, the French always did want to rule the world!
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I always wondered what New York would look like...
...in the Star Trek universe. The UFP still needs a financial hub.
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. The Federations dosn't have economics.
Or so they claim. But economic princapules are just as imutiabel as economic ones. As far as I know, little creative work has been done on the topic. And so long as we contiue to focuse on starfleet, little work will be done.
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BigMcLargehuge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. I can't blame Dorn... I'd want to make another one too...
especially after he was essentially left out of Nemesis, a film that had so much potential, but just fell apart into really dumb scenes. Nemesis was at its best when Shinzon and Picard were away from the rest of the crew, the writing really worked, the dialogue was great,k but they just had to fall into the whole Data/B-4 subplot that just stank on ice, and the Troi/Riker sub-sub plot that sucked so badly it nearly swallowed the screen like a black hole. And what the hell was up with Riker fighting with Shinzon's emmisary? That SHOULD have been Worf, he's a freakin Klingon for crying out loud!!!

Dorn was lucky enough to be in the best of the next generation franchises, DS9, that really showed how well character driven stories worked. I admit that about 50% of DS9 was rehash city, but the original stuff, the ethical stuff, was great.

As for the whole slate of ST Films, I like all of the Classic Trek films, even 5, and none of the Next Generation films.

It's time for Berman to go where no man has gone before... to some other show. Okay, other men have gone there... but none needed to go as much as Berman.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. What would be better for Trek than even firing Berman...
...would be a long rest for the franchise. Dust if off again the next time sci-fi gets REAL popular. (I know it is always popular among fans - but it does come in waves for the general public.)

As for Dorn - I'd give him a recurring role in Enterprise. Dorn played Worf's great grandfather in "Undiscovered Country" so it wouldn't be unusual.
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