My Fundie Mom's Forwarded E-Mails, part II

[Paragon]

Today's e-mail:

DID YOU KNOW?
As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the US Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view...it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW?
As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors
have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

DID YOU KNOW?
As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall,
right above where the Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW?
There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, DC

DID YOU KNOW?
James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement:
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

DID YOU KNOW?
Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

DID YOU KNOW?
Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher,
whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

DID YOU KNOW?
Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members
of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

DID YOU KNOW?
Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law...an oligarchy...the rule of few over many.

DID YOU KNOW?
The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said:
"Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."


How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything
we have done for 220 years in this country is now
suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

Please forward this to everyone you can. Lets put it around the world
and let the world see and remember what this great country was built on.

Thank you!!

[neuvocat]

1. My Reply

"How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything
we have done for 220 years in this country is now
suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?"

How can anyone ask a question like that when the Constitution calls for separation of church and state?

[King Of Paperboys]

2. Hey, Fundie-Mom!

Snopes is your friend!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

Good luck, Paragon.

[Jade Fox]

3. Do you know how many people in the legal system are Jewish?

Did Jews do nothing to build this great country? Do you know how many
people came to the USA to get away from the faith-based governments
of their old country?

Good luck, Paragon.

[undergroundpanther]

4. I didn't know

And It makes me sick.
Fundies are bullies to people who are not like them.They declared a culture war on everyone else. In my observation of them it seems cannot think straight because their thoughts are circular and everything they think out must either be authority OKed or bible rationalized.If it fits neither criteria it is rejected as a illegitimate thought,even if by all observation it makes sense to most other kinds of people.Fundamentalists are ruled by fear,they can't hear other points of view when they are too fearful of hearing what they fear what might contradict their belief system.Their egos are that fragile and the bible is their only hope because they do not trust themself..They redefine words and invert the meanings. Fundamentalist Rapture freaks have no business leading countries and shaping foreign policy to suit their religion plan.

The founders of America were running away from religious persecution.
Fundamentalists are the persecutors in all types of religion.
Because the founding fathers had not recovered from bigotry,trauma and mental illness they persecuted Indians,they had white male only power structures,they were very back wards.But it was their desire to let go of the rigid authoritarianism of fundamentalism in favor of freedom than made this country different from a country with a king that sanctioned persecutions.

There has always been a tension between personalities in societies...On one side there are those personalities who prefer get along with others and do not see it as a hindrance,who have an inner locus of control,and do not bow to authorities without asking "why"..The people who play fair because they have empathy and can see beyond themselves or people like themselves,those who enjoy pluralism and diversity and are not threatened by people's inherent differences in appearance, preference, thought or orientations ..People who do not think only in terms of rewards or punishments.or in black or whit.People who can handle complexity. People who do or don't do things based in forethought and careful evaluation knowing full well the power of their choices.

and there is the other side of society where people are seeking simplicity,who would rather not risk stepping outside their favorite ways off thinking,bullies,narcissists,authoritarians,and people who do not want to have an inner locus of control,manipulative conduct disordered people and enablers, demanding others be like they are or at least keep up the appearances they are not different(conformity).People who seek to control others and dominate,people who excuse abuses or rationalize it,people who see things as black and white,enemy or allies,people who do as they are told.People stuck in a paradigm of reward and punishment,in a top down hierarchy.People who do things because they can.

In between these two poles are infinite mixes of combinations of people,each shift one way or the other depending on many factors.

The clash is cultural..

A culture clash between two very different personalities and ego orientations in people.

[lagniappe]

5. I've always found these fundie claims to be amusing.

If our founding fathers were such strong Christians, why didn't they specifically state that the U.S. was a Christian nation in the Constitution. I'm not a historian, but I'll wager the issue had to come up when they were debating it.

Do you think if the founding fathers had the same fanatical beliefs as today's fundies they would omit any reference to Christianity in the Constitution?

I guess the next time the Supreme Court needs to find precedent for law in this country the first place they should look is on any oak doors in our federal buildings.

[King Of Paperboys]

6. Well, I AM a historian...

And I'm listening to David McCullough's "John Adams" right now.

This DID come up, MANY times... the idea of the United States as a "Christian nation" was SOUNDLY rejected by the Founders over and over and over again. The Founders went out of their way to make sure that NO RELIGION would hold sway over this nation. And they were absolutely correct to do so. Had they done otherwise, the US as we know it would have factionalized and ceased to exist LONG ago.

[Paragon]

7. Actually, it wasn't put in just to protect the state from religion...

...it was put in to keep religion protected from the state -- they were tired of English kings telling them who and how they could worship.

Now it's come full circle again under the Bush Regime, with them sticking their noses into "faith-based initiatives" and "abstinence programs" and the like.