Are there atheists in foxholes?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

[ott]

1. Atheists In Foxholes Monument

Lake Hypatia, Alabama.

http://www.ffrf.org/foxholes

[unblock]

2. christians welcome death.

or so says our beloved and revered justice antonin scalia. christians know that when they die they'll move on to a better place. scalia uses this as a rationalization as to why christians don't think the death penalty is such a horrible thing, forgetting, among other things, that the people they are executing supposedly will NOT be moving on to that better place....

anyway, if scalia is right and christians welcome death, or at least a just death, then if you can imagine anyone being afraid in a foxhole, then you can imagine an atheist in a foxhole.

well, there's a flaw in my "logic", which is that all the fearful soldiers could be non-christians and non-atheists, e.g., believing jews or such. but hey, whaddya 'spect from a smartass like me?

[chaska]

3. Of course there are no atheists in foxholes....

What atheist would be dumb enough to be in the military?

[sir_captain]

6. I don't see how that follows

either you are saying that people with faith are dumb, or you are saying that everyone in the military is dumb. either one of those possibilities is ignorant, and, well, dumb.

[corporatewhore]

12. being killed/killing for oil aint exactly smart

[WillyBrandt]

14. Um, you know there were some wars that weren't about oil...

[corporatewhore]

18. i thought orginal poster was talking about atheists in present dayfoxholes

[sir_captain]

15. yeah, i'm sure that's why

most soldiers signed up. give me a break. most people join the military for assistance in, oh, i don't know, college tuition payments and job skills.

[chaska]

22. Well I can certainly see other possibilities...

Those are the ones you thought up.

I'm not (or wasn't) saying that people of faith or military people are dumb. I'm saying that atheists are (generally speaking) too smart to invite the possibility of death in a foxhole.

Listen, almost every statement contains some degree of truth or falsity depending on how fine a point you put on it. The fact is that the ranks of the military and the religious are filled with the lesser educated. Not exclusively, but predominantly. I don't mean to be cruel, but them's the facts, and I was just making a joke after all.

[sir_captain]

25. Yeah, I know you were

I just didn't think it was that funny

I also don't believe that education and intelligence have a particularly high degree of correlation, you know? Particularly considering how many of those soldiers are soldiers precisely in order to become better educated.

[TXlib]

4. Why do you ask?

What do you think?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. I think

there are atheists in foxholes.


http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_foxholes.htm


http://www.maaf.info/


Why do I ask? No particular reason, I thought of the expression and thought it would make a good poll.

[TXlib]

27. Good link!

I've used that one before... check out some of my atheism threads in the MR.

[Snoggera]

5. Are there foxes in atheist holes?

I'm not sure what I meant, but it sounded interesting to me.

[TXlib]

11. NO SEX THREADS!

And there damned well better not be any in THIS atheist's hole.

Damned foxes... charm the pants off you every time, if you're not vigilant (and sober...)

[HEyHEY]

7. the Irish were rotten indian fighters!

[BringEmOn]

8. In Iraq, there appears to be some a**holes in foxholes.

[TXlib]

13. Place the blame where it is due.

I don't blame the soldiers... I blame the politicians who sent them there.

[HawkerHurricane]

9. I don't know about foxholes, but

there were athiests on warships.

[WillyBrandt]

10. Very few. As an atheist, I suspect I'd be finding religion real quick if

I were in a foxhole. Maybe some others are made of sterner stuff.

ON EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure. I just don't know.

[MattBaggins]

21. As an atheist who was in a "foxhole"...

There are atheists there, and there is little time for finding religion when the shit is hitting the fan. As a matter of fact, had any of my brothers dropped to his knees and started crying/praying in the middle of a battle, he would have promptly found the butt of my M16 upside his head with me screaming at him to get his shit together and concentrate on getting out of said situation.

[ArkDem]

33. Believe me, when you are absolutely sure you are about to

die your thinking changes to a different level. I don't think anyone knows how they would react unless they have been there. It was certainly an eye opener for me.

[Az]

35. And everyone is unique

We each are the result of our own particular path. Our concerns and worries are ours alone. What one person finds of great import is an annoyance to another. Wouldn't it be better to just let each person tell you who they are rather than trying to predefine them on a minimal of information from one or two labels?

[ArkDem]

37. No.

.

[sir_captain]

16. Personally, I think

that I would be willing to pray to anything to get me out of the foxhole. I'm not sure if I believe in a God or not, but I'd be sure as hell ready to change my mind pretty damn quick!

[murielm99]

17. Didn't think we had foxholes any more.

[Mattforclark]

19. Yes

Many times non-atheists become atheists after their experiences in foxholes.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/philip_paulson/foxhole.html

I Was an Atheist in a Foxhole (1989)
Philip K. Paulson
(All rights to reproduce in electronic text the following article that appeared in the September/October 1989 issue of THE HUMANIST magazine are unconditionally granted.)

Belief in life after death was a dangerous indulgence in Vietnam

Watching the Vietnam War during the mid-1960s on the nightly news inspired me to perform my patriotic duty and join the Army. There, I was trained as a light weapons infantryman and a paratrooper. I was ordered to the front lines of battle in South Vietnam in September 1966 and fought until January 1968. I extended my tour of duty for the special privilege of an early honorable discharge.

My Vietnam War experiences began in the fall of 1966 fighting the South Vietnamese communists -- the Viet Cong. After my first month in Vietnam, I became an atheist. My former religion was Lutheran, due to my Swedish ancestry which traditionally dictates that progeny be so baptized. I could understand only a primitive concept of God. I rebelled. No compassionate God, I thought, would permit all this killing to happen. After witnessing the dead and wounded during my first "firefight," I looked up and said, "You sadistic God! You're not worthy of my worship!"

[moof]

20. There is another line to the refrain

" There's no athiests in the foxholes,
but there are plenty in the P.O.W. camps."

This was more popular in the Pacific Theatre of WWII anyway that is how it was heard here at the moof hut.

[Endangered Specie]

23. I can tell you one thing....

there ain't too many rich conservative fundie evangelical's in foxholes EITHER.

[arwalden]

26. absolutely

[Az]

28. Please explain to me what a Christian is doing in a foxhole

First off let me say that this question is a rather rude insult to atheists. I know far to many atheist vets to shrug this insult off.

That being said, what are Christians who have a commandment Thou Shall NOT KILL that they are supposed to obey doing in a foxhole. I don't see a list of exceptions associated with that statement. Not and Kill seem pretty definitive.

The entire basis of this argument is to insinuate that atheists don't really lack a belief in god. It suggests that they are just fronting. Putting on airs. It would be akin to us saying a Christian only believes in god while in church.

[johnnie]

29. Another question would be

Are there any atheists on death row? Seems that most inmates I have seen in documentaries and such have found a god. Just wondering.

[HawkerHurricane]

30. That's an easy answer.

There are no self proclaimed athiests on death row because review boards like people who say 'I've found God' and are more likely to grant clemency.
Same with parole boards.
It's easy to proclaim yourself a Christian; and the claim is enough for some.

I could also make a comment about 'Athiest don't commit crimes' or some such, but it would be a cheap shot.

[Az]

31. Statistics would back that up

Prison statistics show that atheists make up less then 1% of the prison population. Now this is indicitive of a couple of possible factors. Other statistics show that atheists tend to be more educated than average therefor they may be less likely to be pressured into a crime by economic need. It could be that being god fearing pulls some perks in prison so they line up for the extra priveliges. Or it could be the connections within the Evil Atheist Conspiracy that enable us to get away with more crimes.

[johnnie]

32. But then

Wouldn't the mere acknowledgment of a god to "save their asses" or their own salvation of their life be a confession that the Atheist believes in some sort of power that they can use to convince a parole board?

[Az]

34. Um no

Its an acknowledgement that if they want to be free they have to lie. Its an acknowledgement of the power the parole board has over them and their own particular prejudices. Its an acknowledgement of the oppression within the system that sees atheism as synonomous with evil. A criminal is doing everything they can to appear good in the way the system wants them to appear. Some aspects are real changes. Some are masks.

[johnnie]

36. To be honest...

I don't know much about atheism. I'm not judging or condemning because I really have no concern if people believe in higher powers or not.
My post here was more toward the prisoners on death row, and I don't know how many of them go to the parole board.

[HawkerHurricane]

40. As I said...

the committees that make recomendations to Governors about clemency show more sympathy for self proclaimed Christians than any other religion or non religion. If you don't want to be executed, you've got to convince them (to convince the Governor) that you are 'worthy'... and claiming you 'found Jesus' helps.

(Note: maybe they actually have 'found God' and have turned thier life around... but it's a easy thing to fake.)

[TrogL]

38. Last time I was in a foxhole

and things started blowing up around me, I seem to remember invoking scatology and sexuality, not any diety.

[TXlib]

39. Dropped a few F-bombs?