Two part question on love and marriage

[SarahB]

Okay, sorry folks. I would have asked my marriage counselor, but apparently she blabs everything I say during the private sessions so it makes things worse. I ask friends and it's either "he's a jerk" or "you can work it out". Never anything concrete. I'm just very confused right now and I had a couple drinks and I hardly drink, so I'm even more confused.

Part One:
Can you actually love someone again after years of gradually letting go until you feel almost nothing and are afraid you will lose yourself again if you do? What if it would make life a whole lot easier if you did love them again? Can it be done?

Part two:
If yes, should I give up DU to do so? I'd have to say being here has really allowed me to look at myself in new ways (which is good), but in talking with someone here about certain issues, lead to all the marital problems being thrown into the forefront because I just couldn't deny it all anymore. I don't know if giving up DU would save things or just throw me back into denial mode. Generally I'm on when he's working so it doesn't take up a lot of time away if that means anything.

I don't know if I should write this, but I don't care really. I want to be a good person and do the right thing in life, but I don't know what that is anymore and I no one seems to know. Especially would be helpful are those who are old enough to be married or in long term relationships for some time who know what I mean here.

spell edit

[unblock]

1. well for starters, get a new marriage counselor

marriage counselor (actually, any therapist) goal number one is to create a safe environment for exploring feelings. violating privacy is a cardinal sin. malpractice, in my book.

as for du, it sounds like it's making you grow and confront some feelings and issues that you need to confront. you may wish to moderate your usage to make things more manageable, but i would advise against turning your back on something that ultimately sounds like a positive influence for you.

not that i'm a licensed marriage counselor or anything, for that matter...

[phoebe]

2. hey - don't worry so much.

Forgiveness is a wonderful thing. Forgive yourself, forgive him and
open up the door to what life has to offer.

Give up DU? Can't let you do that I'm afraid - we'd miss you! ;-)

[Kadie]

3. You are going to have to look into your own heart for the answers

I'm sure you can love someone again after letting go. But, is it a healthy love? What do you mean by it would make life easier if you did love them again? You say it will be easier, but yet you seem to be struggling with some issues.

If you want to give up DU to spend time with someone you love, then do so. If you are only on when he is gone, then what does it matter.

If you feel you need to give it up because of the influence of the people here, that they are, if I am reading your post correctly, helping you grow in a way, then you would be leaving for the wrong reasons.

Peace to you.

[Taverner]

4. Not sure if my advice will be all that helpful

For obvious reasons...but

As for part one: I like to think that you can love someone after the relationship becomes dead. Like anything, one would have to start at page one all over. Go on first dates with that person, and start the relationship repeating what went right, and avoiding what went wrong.

Part two: Looking at things in new ways is never a bad thing. One of my college professors once said "Disillusionment is the greatest thing that can happen to a person - as they cease to harbor illusions and see things for how they are." I wouldn't quite DU unless you really felt uncomfortable here - or you feel that it might be too much of a distraction.

I hope that helps - and I wish you the best in trying to rekindle that love. :hug:

[VelmaD]

5. Loving someone because it would be easier...

doesn't sound like love to me...it sounds like settling.

Anything worth having in life isn't easy.

Be strong. Keep moving forward no matter how easy it would be to stop.

[SOteric]

6. I know it's possible to love someone again after years

but the circumstances in which I did were of course quite, quite different. I can honestly say the second connection, was better, deeper...more incredibly intense.

I think the bigger question is, 'is that something you're both truly wanting and ready for?' It takes both individuals in a couple to want to repair their damage and reconnect. -Hearts don't like being dragged along kicking and screaming and they make remarkably poor prisoners. It's too easy for people who let themselves feel pushed or forced into a reconciliation to find ways to sabotage themselves and the relationship too.

No one can decide for you whether you should give up DU. But I would again say that this sounds like an element that could cause some resentment and some sabotage down the road. If you're giving up a good many things you find reward in for the sake of a relationship you're not sure you want, - long term, how happy can you be?

I guess my best recommendation for finding your way in confusion is to listen to your self-talk. Listen to the inner dialogue in your head. Are you trying to talk yourself out of something? Or are you trying to talk yourself into something.

If you're trying to talk yourself out of eating fudge, it helps a great deal to just acknowledge that you really want to eat fudge even though it may not be in your best interest. And vice versa if you're trying to talk yourself into eating fudge, just to be social and go along with the group when you're really full and don't want it. Ultimately, you have to face yourself and understand your wants and motivations. They aren't a decision, they're the things you base your decisions on.

Reconciliations are possible, but they're not as easy as pushing a button.

:hug: Hang in there.

[LastKnight]

7. i cant tell ya much about part one...but...

as for part 2... youve got alot alot of friends here...and im sure everyone will understand if you decide you need to give it up, but we would all prefer you stay :D

anyway, youve been somewhat of a big sister to me on some level, your always right there to join in my pityparties and at the same time tell me it will all work out. (thanks for that btw)

whichever way you go... best of luck.

-LK

[Kenneth ken]

8. My $.02

( for you, free! such a bargain! )

"Can you actually love someone again after years of gradually letting go...yes, but it takes both parties being willing to work at it until you feel almost nothing and are afraid you will lose yourself again if you do? if you are afraid of losing yourself again, you probably won't be able to love that person again. It would undermine your ability to trust.What if it would make life a whole lot easier if you did love them again? that isn't love, it's surrender.Can it be done?

"If yes, should I give up DU to do so? I'd have to say being here has really allowed me to look at myself in new ways (which is good), but in talking with someone here about certain issues, lead to all the marital problems being thrown into the forefront because I just couldn't deny it all anymore. I don't know if giving up DU would save things or just throw me back into denial mode. Generally I'm on when he's working so it doesn't take up a lot of time away if that means anything. No, you shouldn't give up DU. It isn't interfering with the time you spend with him, so it isn't a problem. It may be that he is threatened by the growth and change, and blames DU, that's an excuse to avoid admitting he is afraid of the changing you. You say it has helped you see yourself in new ways - that's growth; humans should strive to always grow. That's why it's called living. It's an ongoing, continual process.

sometimes people who get married young grow in different ways than their partner expected, or perhaps even differently than they expected. There aren't any real rules in life, so the only "right thing" really, is what's right for you. Whether a marriage can survive the growth of either of the people in it depends, not on how either person grows, but how well the partner accepts that growth. Neither partner should try to prevent the other from growing, but rather be supportive of the growth process, and celebrate the successes, comfort the travails. That's what's implied in the "for better or worse" part of the vows. If your partner stifles or tries to discourage your growth, they're not living up to their end of the vow.

You have to be who you are, you can't be happy being who someone else wants you to be.

[Fleshdancer]

9. Interesting......

You've said quite a bit so I'll break it up part one and two the way you did. But before I do, I want to repeat what others have said about getting a new marriage counselor because you should never be forced to have your deepest inner thoughts vocalized until YOU are ready. This counselor should know this. And I've had a few cocktails myself so now we're on equal footing. ;)

Part One: You asked if you could actually love someone again after years of gradually letting go until you feel almost nothing and are afraid you will lose yourself again if you do?

Would it shock you if I told you that YOU can love and be loved by this person if you choose to? (the real you...the one you're afraid of losing if you continue) Here's the thing, you fell in love and gave up a lot of who you are in order to do it, right? Or perhaps you fell early in your development and have grown since? Time passed, you've analyzed what you wanted and who you are and then your relationship strained? If I'm completely wrong, let me know.

Here's the thing. People don't stay the same through
out there entire lives. Hell, many of us are completely different people every 5-10 years! Goddess knows I change dramatically every 2-3 years. What kind of relationship do YOU want? I didn't read your previous posts so I don't know what other problems exist, but if this person loves you, he/she will grow WITH you, not without you. That is a choice we all make. We think what we feel.

If you are very reluctant to break away from this person (*unless emotional, mental, or physical abuse is present!!!!!*) then there must be a reason why. The fact that you're seeing a marriage counselor tells me that a part of you wants to make this work. So what do YOU want?? What do YOU need? Think of this as a business contract. Take out all the emotion and flat out say what it is you need and expect...and then expect it. But don't forget...relationships are a two way street so what does your "other" need and/or want?

Part Two:

You've already answered this. Being on DU doesn't take away from your relationship time and you've learned more about who you are while spending time here. The answer is no. Why? Because you have to be comfortable with who you are in ANY personal relationship...personal, friendship, whatever. The only way DU could negatively affect your relationship is when you're spending more time with us than with your SO. Don't give up your interests for a person unless that person is literally waiting for you to stop!

I'm long winded. I've had a few cocktails and I don't know the entire situation but I want to take the time to say that if your relationship involves ANY abuse, whether it's physical, mental, or emotional then my ONLY recommendation is to LEAVE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!

[seventhson]

10. It depends

First, there is not enough information here for a fair answer. But I would suggest you ask yourself the following questions:

1. You can't force yopurself to love love him. Either you do or you don't. Do you love him enough to rekindle that into a passionate flame or contentment (someone to grow old with and to hold on to until the last)?

2. Same is true for him. Does he (I assume it is a he, but I would say this applies to all persons) love you enough and does he want to save the relationship? If you are in counselling then you must be at least TRYING to do that. But does HE really want to? Do You?

3. As for the counsellor -- these are fair questions that SHOULD be addressed in the counselling and if the counsellor sucks you should consider changing. BUT she seems to be addressing the coree issues you are afraid to face with him. Even though that seems like a betrayal she is addressing the issues YOU need to face WITH him ultimately if you are to succeed. Do you TRUST her enough to tell her what YOUR problem with her pushing this with him is? You have to tell her this. It sounds like you are not ready to even discuss the fact that one of your options is leaving.

4. Do you deep down WANT to leave him? Because you ask the important question: can I rekindle the love if I stay after deadening my feelings for so long? it seems to me that you really WANT (at least part of you) to stay and make it work. IF that is what you want the next question is: Is HE willing to work on it to rekindle the love?

5. Sounds like he needs to answer this for you in session or straight up. Go for a long walk in a park somewhere - away from the therapist and tell him your feelings and ask whether HE wants to try.

6. It is okay to have mixed feelings. It is okay for him to also. You have to decide what is acceptable and not in the relationship and if HE is willing to do it and whether YOU are willing to do what he wants as well.

The impression I get is that if DU is enough of a problem - as it is encouraging you to think for yourself or get reinforcement for your "side" of the relationship - then you fear thinking honestly and objectively in an environment where everything you say will be, generally, viewed in your favor. Obviously that will reinforce your negative thoughts about your mate (in the same way that the copunsellor and some friends seem to be taking sides).

You have to be equals with him and choose DU or not for yourself - but it should not be a crutch to reinforce an idea that may be bad for you when BOTH of you need to face the need for change.

Most adults do not change much. He may not be willing to change much. So ultimately are you willing to live with THAT?

You have to ask him that question: Do you love me enough to TRY to change for me (at least meet you half way)? Then you have to express what that is and see what his response is.

I would think his response will tell you whether it is time to stay or time to go.

Stagnation is not good. But loyalty and commitment have their benefits. If you tell him you WANT to try to make it work if only he is willing to work at it - but will not stay if he is not (not in an ultimatum but in a sincere expression of your true feelings - that you MIGHT be willing to try to make it work if he honestly works at it too, but otherwise no, so that he KNOWS that this is serious and that you may well ultimately leave) THEN you may get his sincere response.

He will be angry and threatened at your expression of independence if he truly is attached to you. That is normal. He will also maybe begin to understand what he needs to do (but you need to tell him).

SOMETIMES a day or weekend apart in a nonthreatening way - no going out drinking at a singles bar but curl up with a good book or walks on the beach alone somewhere - will do a world of good (especially if you reassure him that it is just a chance for you to clear your head and for him to have a moment alone as well and not an experiment in being single). Couples DO take breaks from each other.


Are there KIDS? Family ties?

I think honesty helps a lot.

Sometimes the feeling of being trapped in a relationship (especially if you are married) is the WORST thing for the relationship. Understand that you are NOT trapped. That you CAN make choices. And decide WHAT choices are best for you and your life.

Also know that those benefits of the relationship have value and should NOT be dumped due to frustration and helplessness which you CAN change within the relationship if both are willing.

Ultimately the choice is yours (that is why no one can really tell you the best thing to do). You can stay or you can go. You can stay longer and work on it or you can cut and run. But ultimately you must live with the consequences of your choices as do those you care about.

I think the feeling of panic is thew worst part of it: the feeling that you need to decide RGHT NOW! BUT you do NOT have to. You can take your time and make choices wisely.

Keep doing what you enjoy doing - otherwise you will be resentful. If you need a break from DU take it. We will be here. We probably all should at times.

The REALITY id that life is what YOU make it. You make it with the ones you CHOOSE to. If you CHOOSE to be with him then your love can grow again if he makes this choice too.


I would recommend the movie "Happy accidents" . We are all, after all, only human and imperfect in a very fucked up world. If we find someone to love and have fun with and keep company with, then it has real value and rewards. But if that person is not willing to make it work with you and vice versa then it is wise to KNOW that and make your plans accordingly.

Good luck.

I am NOT a psychologist but I did get my BA in psych and did graduate work too and spent years as a counsellor (mostly for teens and parents with SERIOUS problems).

One last thing: the alcohol will loosen you inhibitions about talking about this stuff, which is okay, but you need to be really clear when you make your decisions. Maybe you need a romantic weekend away with the guy and say to hell with the therapist for a week or two.

Therapy dredges up a lot of shit and often makes things worse - but if it faciliates communication between the two of you then TAKE that and work with it.

You need to tell him the truth. If he can hear it then you will get your answers. But remind him that time is on both of your sides and that whatever you do you should take your time and work through it with love and respect for each other.

ghood luck and let me know how it turns out.

[seventhson]

11. So what did you think of all the advice you got, SarahBelle?

Did it help?

[SarahB]

12. Hmmm...Did it help?

My reality is children. My reality is bills and Little League games. My reality is my educational goals I'm still pursuing. My reality is wanting things I can't have anymore. My reality IS settling and making due in order to do the right thing for others. I tend to think passion, love, and fulfillment are dreams when we're too young to know any better and understand what reality is anyway.

Supposedly I'm a pretty, smart, and nice person, but where has it gotten me? Nowhere. There are no right answers. That's the problem. In the end, I will not have what I want or have any real closure on this problem, so I must put my feelings aside for everyone else once again- for the needs of someone here to forget me because it's easier for them and for the needs of my children. Any feelings that spring up within me are generally proved pointless and silly anyway.

That being said, I appreciate what people said and taking the time to write some very thoughtful answers. Whether I stay or go has less to do with my husband and more with me. For now on DU, I'm here, but perhaps to a lesser extent. Same is true of everything is life.

Somewhere, somehow, life will be better. I am a strong person because I have no other choice. Letting my guard down has proved dangerous.

[Exultant Democracy]

15. Hey you,

I can't give you any advice, but I will give you a hug :hug: Life is far to complicated for yes and no answers, but I hope you can find a shade of gray that you can live with and be happy with.



(and the little devil in me says that if you do end up single you can look me up anytime, you are a cutie;) )

[seventhson]

20. Your sig line says it all

But, the fact is that we ALL have this very same reality: we are wage slaves, bound to protect and serve our children and mates, yearning for more and for our dreams to come true, and frustrated.

Buddha said it is desire which makes us unhappy. Attachment to the impermanent instead of being at one with what is. Contentment is a virtue and brings peace.

Your life may seem mundane, but last week one of my closest friends from childhood lost her ten year old daughter to a vicious killer. The girl was my son's oldest and one of his cloisest friends (my son is nine).

Count your blessings. And be happy that you are not in Mari333's shoes or worse: you could be a mother in Fallujah.

Ifg you feel like a slave to your husband and your kids, then you need to try to undo that feeling and at the same time try to make your life less a burden and chore than a fulfillment of honest and joyfull commitment to duty (which we all have).

Hey, you can run from it all if you are really miserable.. But I think knowing that you CAN run if you need to often makes it easier to deal with.

[foreigncorrespondent]

13. Yes it is possible...

...to fall back in love with someone again. Especially if that person is your true soul mate.

Leaving DU, well that is up to you, hon, no one else can tell you to stay, or to go. With this, you need to decide that for yourself.

[SarahB]

14. I don't know if I believe in soul mates

It's a nice concept, but I don't think this will ever exactly be my life. I've had times where I thought "maybe", but those things are probably more for other people besides me. I'm not trying to whine. Life could be worse. I have healthy, smart children and a decent future myself career-wise. I don't know why I post these questions at times.

[foreigncorrespondent]

17. By you saying...

...you don't know if you believe in soul mates, tells me, you haven't met yours yet. Trust me, hon, you will know without any doubt, when the person you are meant to be with (your soul mate) walks into your life. :)

[seventhson]

21. You were a little buzzed and reflective. It was cool.

Reflecting on your life - eou wanted some feedback. Are you nuts. Are you normal. Is what you are going through strange or just the nature of human relationships?

I'm glad you asked.

It made me reflect on how I've made my relationship work and how much I appreciate my honey and kids. But we also had a great tragedy this week involving the horrific murder of two children in our close circle of friends. It makes one appreciate the little things: the smiles and appreciation of your kids, even their smart=ass responses that they learned from you and forced on them by their gurgling hormones.

Also, imagine how sad and frustrated your husband must be knowing you are unhappy and want to maybe bolt. Is he worth the trouble? Or is your whole life worth saving as it is?

It is a very real and honest question which we all have to answer every day.

[camero]

16. I'll try

On the first part, you can't really force yourself to love someone you don't love. Then again, the love you give is the love you get so to speak. It could be either way.

On the second part, maybe a break from DU might do you some good. Not forever just enough time to get your thoughts in order. There are pros and cons in everything and the amount of opinions you get here could confuse you more. I have to do it myself sometimes.

And I agree with most everyone here that you should pitch the marriage counselor. It's her job to listen to you and assess the situation, not to give herself an ego boost.

[Misinformed01]

18. Turn DU off; and get a new marriage counselor

A political website should not be affecting your marriage, good or bad-

Your marriage counselor sounds like a drip---fire her, file a complaint, and get a new one. Counseling is not open for gossip.

As far as being on DU only when your husband is gone...sounds innocent, except that it sounds like you have developed an online relationship with someone. If you can't tell anyone about this person, if it has to be a "secret," then you have a problem that needs to be dealt with.

[SarahB]

22. Clarification

Actually, I had some clarification on the marriage counselor. My husband's anger had more to do with what he perceives as my mixed messages than her blabbing (and my ambiguity is valid and irritating I'm sure), so I was mistaken.

Also, to some extent, there was an online relationship, but there's nothing secret about it anymore with my husband and it's over (but I don't need to embarrass anyone else more that I probably already am by saying this), nor was it the cause of my inherent problems. I thought this person was gone and would remain gone for some time, but it's not the case. No one is bothering me or anything, but I have difficulty coming to terms with feelings I have within myself regarding this person. Nothing I planned on or pursued and it's not like I'm the kind of woman who could only attract someone online anyway. Now, we both just pretend like there was nothing because mutual circumstances made it all impossible anyway, it was pointless to have any feelings to begin with, and there will never be the closure I need (not to mention we're both ethical people who want to do the right thing).

Two nights ago, I spouted off too much personal business and that was my mistake as it is now. Perhaps it would be best for me to leave for awhile. As with everything else in life, it's me that has to give up the things I like for others. Why should this be any different? It seems like no matter what men do or say, it's the woman that gets to be a bad guy and has to make all the sacrifices. Par for the course though.

[Jim__]

19. If you don't really care ...

Then, maybe the problem is not with your marriage. Your marriage should be the central thing in your life. If you don't care about that, then, it sounds like you don't care about your own life.

Is there anything in your life that is really interesting and exciting? If not, I don't think any relationship will work out in the long term. You have to be interested.

Is your marraige counselor a licensed psychologist? It sounds to me like you could be depressed; but, I would expect a psychologist to spot that.

I don't think anyone on a message board can give you advice about your marriage. I do think you should be looking for something positive. The right thing in life is to find happiness. If you're not happy, then your marriage is not going to be happy. I think you have to know what you're looking for; then go for that. When you know what you want, you'll know whether or not your marriage is part it.

[SarahB]

23. Actually

When my marriage was my central thing, I was far less happy. I'd do what I thought was best for him and my personal needs be damned (probably he'd say the same thing).
As for interesting and exciting. Interesting, yes. Something for personal fulfillment for myself- yes. Exciting, no, but grown-ups have more important things than excitement. I'm not depressed and happy overall with myself and many things within my life.

You're very right. No one on a message board can give me advice. It's too personal and too complex and it's ridiculous for me to have wrote this to begin with. As for the shrink, see #22.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. I don't have any advice

But in spite of all the issues that you posted, you are a very sweet person and I hope all your troubles work out.