Urgent--I need legal advice about a divorce

[AlienGirl]

I need advice about a divorce in WA State. Can anyone help me?

Tucker

[bahrbearian]

1. Yes so do I, I'll be lurking.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. No but

here is a url: http://www.divorcesource.com/WA/index.shtml

check out the section called: "Information About Washington Divorce"

[supernova]

3. Get a good lawyer

They are worth the money.

[unblock]

5. not necessarily

it depends on how much wealth/income there is to split. it makes no sense to give lawyers 40% of your estate, which could happen if you have very modest net worth.

[supernova]

9. What are you talking about?

it makes no sense to give lawyers 40% of your estate

Where are you getting this 40% of your estate from? This doesn't sound like a reputable lawyer to me to have ripped you off like this.

Lawyers usually have standard fees for things like divorce papers, wills, and setting up trusts and estates. It's all very routine. And if you are not well off, arrangements can be made.

I think I paid about $1100 total for my divorce papers, between the separation agreement and the final divorce papers and associated court costs. And that came to less than 1/2 of 1 percent of my worth.

[unblock]

16. 40% was just a random number, but

lawyers won't work for free, especially on open-ended contested divorces. if you have nothing of consequence to split up, you should do it on the cheap, either pro se or with a cheap mediator.

my ex insisted on a getting herself an expensive by-the-hour divorce lawyer, so i had little choice but to do the same. both lawyers were plenty reputable and mine, at least, agreed that we were wasting our on them. unfortunately, emotions run high in divorce cases.

my ex wanted an "equitable" split of whatever was left after the lawyers took their share. i even proposed a 40-60 split (her getting the 60) if we'd bag the lawyers. she refused on the grounds that she wouldn't know if it was, in fact, a 40-60 split unless an expensive lawyer told her it was.

grrrr....

[AlienGirl]

7. I have no money, at all

[Bake]

28. Ah, but does HE -- your soon-to-be EX?

That's the question!

Seriously, if there is any property (a HOUSE, e.g., or a car or two), or more importantly, if there are CHILDREN, you need a lawyer. Doesn't have to be an expensive one; just a lawyer who regularly handles divorces. I, for instance, am a lawyer but I don't do divorces (I handled one fresh out of law school -- hated it), so I wouldn't hire me!

Bake, Esq.

[unblock]

4. other than having been through a texas divorce, i can't say much

but for anyone who is able to help, you should probably tell more of the story:

-got any kids? what age(s)?
-have any large shared property, e.g., house? mortgage? debts?
-got any independent wealth/debt? e.g., inheritences, or PREMARITAL wealth or student loans?
-does your soon-to-be-ex seem to want a cooperative, lawyer-free settlement, or is violence (legal or otherwise) possible?

it all makes a difference in how you want to approach it.

[AlienGirl]

11. The situation:

I can PM anyone who wants to know the situation; I don't trust him to not be lurking here. There is not a lot of money involved; there are two kids--he has custody because when he left, I was extremely weak and sick from radiation. There's a lot of debt. The question involves whether I can get alimony (which he offered, way back when) and whether he can get child support. He makes more than twice what I make (I'm a low-end retail worker and he's a network admin).

Tucker

[Renew Deal]

6. I know a guy that can help.

His name is Mike. Tell him you know Harry the computer guy.

Check him out at www.divorcefilers.com

[AlienGirl]

8. It isnt gonna be uncontested...that's the problem

[H2O Man]

12. Contact an attorney.

Don't waste your time reading public information sites or simply talking to people who are not able to (1) represent you in court, or (2) direct you to the best attorney possible. No divorce attorney takes 40% of any estate, any more than they take your first born child. Remember: in a "contested" divorce, every day that you put off the effort to get an attorney, the "other side" enjoys a distinct advantage. Quit wasting time, and do that which you need to do.

[AlienGirl]

14. I have no money!!

The attorneys want at least $1500 retainer. I don't have that. I don't make that in a month...

Tucker

[supernova]

15. What about Legal Aid?

in your county/town?

It would be a place to start.

[AlienGirl]

17. Their caseload is full

They can direct me to a "family law clinic," but they can't actually represent me, or give me legal advice.

<sigh> I'm starting to think I should just apologize, kiss my ex's ass, and see if he'll pretty-please let me agree to no alimony/no child support.

Tucker

[geniph]

22. You probably won't get spousal support in this state anyway

unless you gave up a profitable career strictly to rear your child. Even then, you would probably only get it while the child is very young and in your custody.

Alimony doesn't get awarded much in Washington.

[cap]

24. attach your bank account and you will have enough

to pay for a real attorney. He owes you half of what's in there.

[geniph]

10. What kind of question, Tucker?

If you have agreed on the division of assets, there's no ambiguity about divorce in Washington, since it's a no-fault state. The only time most people need an attorney here is if there's likely to be contested custody or contested division of assets. My divorce cost me $110. My (current) husband's divorce from his ex-wife, though, cost him $1500, and who knows what it cost her, even though they'd already divided assets, because they couldn't come to an agreement on custody.

What is it that's being contested - assets, debts, what? The divorce itself can't be contested in this state.

[AlienGirl]

13. Debts and assets

The original agreement:
He would take all the marital debt except my student loans and pay me $1000/month in alimony, without asking for child support.

What he wants me to join to:
I don't get any alimony and he won't seek child support.

What he says will happen unless I join to it:
He will put limitations on my visits with the kids, seek child support, and stick me with half the marital debt. He says I will end up owing him a lot of money and he won't let me see the kids as often.

What can I do?

Tucker

[supernova]

18. Think about what you want him to do

and make a counter offer.

What is it you want from him? There's no right or wrong answer here, just what you want/expect.

*Do you want to enforce the original agreement?

*Do you want to keep seeing your kids or see more of them?

*Is there something you'd be willing to let go of to keep the previous two?


You have to think along these lines.

[AlienGirl]

20. I'd like...

I'd like him to pay me enough money that I can go back to college, instead of working a low-paying, high-stress retail job to scrape by.

Tucker

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[regnaD kciN]

27. Hint...

You might want to learn a bit more about the situation before passing judgement.

Those of us who have known Tucker for a long time know full well that she's not disregarding her children. In my opinion, her soon-to-be-ex took them away, if not illegally, at least unethically (think Gingrich and his first wife), and has also reneged on promised support payments during the separation period.

Next time, maybe you should listen more and talk less.

:grr:

[geniph]

21. Unfortunately, you're going to need a family law attorney

HOWEVER, this state almost never awards alimony. Occasionally, there are cases where spousal support is ordered, but it's rare. If you make anywhere near the same amount of money, you're unlikely to get spousal support.

Child custody and support is all based on tables of equitable distribution in this state, unless the two parties come to an agreement. If you cannot agree, then you will both have to abide by the court's decision, and the court will make the decision of custody and support based on what they feel is best for the child. The non-custodial parent will virtually always be required to pay some support.

If you cannot afford an attorney, contact Columbia Legal Services. They provide a lot of low-cost legal assistance for this kind of case. Look here for resources:
http://lib.law.washington.edu/ref/freecost.html

[cap]

23. you should be able to get joint custody...

you are interested in raising your child, I take it. This is assuming that your health is good enough to permit you to do this. Ergo... he doesn't get child support... in fact, he should pay you child support since you're income is less than his. That's the purpose of child support and alimony. The kids don't go to the bread winner automatically. There's a lot of support for giving the kids to the mother regardless of her financial situation.

Limitations on the kids won't work. The worst is you'll get every other weekend -- which you may want if your health isn't good. Think very carefully about what you can do physically. Maybe the right thing is to let him have the kids. Maybe its not. Only you know.

If your health isn't good, you wont have the extra to pay child support. That will be going towards your medical debts -- which is probably a good fraction of the familial debt. He may have to pay your medical bills while you are separated -- wouldnt that be a nice surprise for him -- you're still his wife till the divorce papers come through. Oh yeah, he should still carry you on the medical insurance untill the divorce is finalized.

Oh yeah, and how about the retirement -- 401K, pension, IRA, etc.... You get half.

Oh yeah, and if you've separated (I mean, filed separation papers) you get half the current bank account, immediately. That should cool his jets. Your attorney should get the for you NOW.

When you file for separation, half the bank account is yours. So you will have enough money in the bank to pay for a lawyer. If there's no money in the bank, he's blowing smoke and is being stupid and wanting to go into bankruptcy (see below).

Probably, half the marital debt is yours. So the two of you should see someone dispassionate to help you work out a reasonable financial plan to paying this off. Maybe if you are lucky, the judge will rule that you only owe a percentage of marital debt relative to your share of income in the family.


He's blowing smoke, trying to intimidate you. Really, the better thing to do is to find somebody who can work as an intermediary and work out the finances. If the two of you go at each other big time and run up more debt, you will end up in bankruptcy -- both of you. The glory days of the computer industry are over -- he can't leave his job and make more money easily. The two of you are stuck financially. If he's smart, he'll cool down once he starts to see the numbers.

You need to go to school and get a profession so you can live on your own.

Once, again, you guys, both of you, are not in the position for a knock down drag out fight. You both are risking bankruptcy. Chill out. Settle down. Spin the numbers.

There are state guidelines as to what is usually done. Look at the guidelines and go for the middle -- maybe stake a bargaining position slightly advantageous to your side but surrender that position relatively quickly. Put the other party on the defensive as to why things should be different.

If he's smart, he'll realize that shooting for the middle is the best thing.

But you guys just don't sound like you can afford to do a knock down drag out fight.

Apply to college anyhow -- you may luck out and get heaps of financial aid because your income is so low.

[radwriter0555]

26. he didn't know that alimony wasn't tax deductable, then he consulted

his tax person, who advised him thusly. Now he knows, and understandably has rescinded the original offer.

There is no money that can compensate for time with your kids in this situation. I say rather than hassle with the drama and negotiation, his offer is just fine, so long as he takes on the marital debt.

Then you are both free to move on, be friends and do your best by the kids without any more impediments.

Keep it simple.

[unblock]

19. first things first, get paid

during the divorce process, he can't hide income and wealth from you. well, he physically can, but not legally. if you can't afford the retainer, tell the lawyer that your soon-to-be-ex has a greater income than you do and that he should be paying you a maintenance allowance. your lawyer can get a court order to make your husband cough up enough for the retainer.