What should be the Democrats' stance on Bush's immigration policy?

[kentuck]

In my opinion, they should come out for it. Except they should challenge Bush on the time schedule for it. If we can get the unemployment rate back down to 4%, then it would make more sense. As it is, it appears that he could care less about the 9 million still looking for employment. His employment numbers are not as rosy as he seems to think.

[cthrumatrix]

1. they should...becuase for shrub it's just for votes and the corp.

they can't pass anything on thier own anyway.

[DuctapeFatwa]

2. My thoughts can best be expressed in a monologue from

ME!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=992994&mesg_id=992994

[Zuni]

3. should go against it

Democrats can pick up a lot of votes opposing this. This will also hurt jobs and keep more Americans out of work, and those can be the grounds to oppose it on.

[Zuni]

4. you know how many votes Dems can pick up over this?

by opposing this, we can take a steal an issue from the conservatives

[Cleita]

5. Bush has a habit of moving to the center when election

times roll around. Then when re-elected, he snaps back to the hard right. He did so in Texas and this is what he is doing now. When campaigning in 2000 he pushed the no 'child left behind' education issue and called himself a 'compassionate conservative'. We all know this is window dressing, lace curtains, to hide the death and devastation he is leaving with his real agenda and actions.

[Cannikin]

6. I dont get it. They have to know how risky this is.

Why would they do this now? Is there another issue that this is supposed to distract from?

[kentuck]

7. It's a political gamble...

The Democrats need to call his bluff... He knows the Congress will not pass it but he wants to appear for it anyway, because he thinks it will gather votes in the Hispanic community...

[Cleita]

11. Workers from other countries can't vote unless they

are citizens. I think it's the corporate backing, the employers, they are after. You know the agri-businesses and fast food business that utilize these workers. They not only want their votes but their political contributions. Not only that he looks like a compromiser on issues getting the swing vote.

I think we should applaud him and call it what it is, a progressive idea. We should praise him for finally becoming a liberal. We should make this backfire on him and see how fast he retreats.

[kentuck]

13. Cleita...now you're thinking like a strategician.....

:) Is that a word?

[lovedems]

8. I think the only reason his unemployment numbers are improving

is because they didn't continue with the federal unemployment extension. I know there are hundreds of unemployed (let's do the basic math. 3 million have lost jobs under *. 800,000 have found work. That still leaves over 2 million unemployed) By not continuing the federal extension thousands of people just dropped from the radar. Isn't that how they track unemployment, by the numbers collecting? OK, I realize this may be very simplified but what an ingenious move on the part of the republicans! They can claim unemployment numbers are down when on paper they look to be, but the reality of the situation is you have more people totally screwed because now they don't have jobs OR unemployment compensation. They get their cake and get to eat it to!

I think the dems should show this plan for exactly what it is. Exploiting the cheap labor, illegal immigrant for yet more corporate greed. The only compassion this policy shows is the compassion they feel for corporate profiteering.

[GainesT1958]

9. Our folks in Congres should support it, BUT...

Offer ammendments allowing:
1) Amnesty for undocumented aliens without criminal records who wish to participate in the program;

2) The chance for those aliens who so desire to start the naturalization process--and become U.S. citizens!:D

Let's see the Repubs from, say, California, Florida and Texas scream about THAT!:eyes:

B-)

[Sugarbleus]

10. I hate the policy...

I was watching C-SPAN this morning when all the talk of the immigration policy was touted as being something akin to heaven on earth. I AM FUMING. The only thing Bushco is interested in is giving businesses a break in terms of wages so they can get all their services performed without having to pay "American" wages or keep the people forever.

I could NOT believe my ears as the talking head on C-SPAN ( I cannot remember the guys name but the WH press secretary was saying the same thing in his briefing also)stated that the jobs these immigrants would take are those that Americans wouldn't take???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Such as, construction..EXCUSE ME? Retail, agriculture, meat packing/slaughter houses, etc?????!!!!!

I just wanted to throw something at my TV when those mealy mouthed neocons glibly talked this crap!! I, for one, come from a long line of labourers. We are the "people who make stuff". We haven't magically gone away just because the nation is forcing us into a 'Info/high tech' economy. In the first place, some of those jobs are perfect for teenagers getting their first job and elderly who are subsidizing thier incomes, students working through college, and those like me who are not in the "professional class". These greedy, unethical,employers just don't want to hire anyone who will need to make a living wage and require benefits.

I'm sitting in front of the tube listening to these people talk as if they are from some other planet; I wonder if these talking heads ever get out in the REAL WORLD!! The planet I'm on has a zillion workers out of jobs who would gladly take the work Bush wants to give away to illegals!
This is an outrage and I'm up to here with all the bullshit.
:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[lovedems]

14. It must be getting to expensive to move your company overseas

so they will just see to it that they can have cheap labor here at home.

[Malva Zebrina]

22. Me too

:toast"

I just wanted to throw something at my TV when those mealy mouthed neocons glibly talked this crap!! I, for one, come from a long line of labourers. We are the "people who make stuff".

I sometimes wonder if Ayn Rand wasn't right. We do not have to accept that we "make stuff" and are on that rung of the ladder. Do we?

It does not seem to matter what the intellectual capacity. If one does not make over fifty thousand and nears one hundred thousand dollars, one is a "people who makes stuff"

If I had it to do over again, knowing what I know now, I would have forced my kids to go to college under penalty of death. As it happened, it just was not affordable

And can anyone tell me why an education is not affordable for the kids of the parents who "make the stuff"?

[stinkeefresh]

12. our response:

he has absolutely NO intention of actually enacting this. Just like NCLBehind, it is a play for votes, not a genuine policy initiative.

[lovedems]

16. Yes but,

when is somebody going to grow a pair and call this SOB on his "say one thing in public and do something else behind closed doors". This is such a TYPICAL pattern of this administration. The No Child Left Behind, under funded so it doesn't work. Aides in Africa, under funded. I am sick of the bullshit from this administration and more than that, I am sick of the sheeple who keep believing it! When will the madness end? When will the villian be exposed?

[denverbill]

15. I part company with most Democrats on this issue.

The Democratic Party should be more worried about American jobs and American workers than corporate profits and illegal Mexican workers.

Years ago, Mexican workers performed jobs that few Americans wanted, poor paying migrant labor jobs, e.g. Now, they staff fast food restaurants, work construction and landscaping, and do a myriad of other jobs that Americans would be more than willing to do, assuming they were paid decently. Corporations have found out that they can ditch American workers and boost their profits by hiring illegals. America didn't become the wealthiest nation in the world by allowing a flood of foreign labor in. We have always had controlled, limited migration to protect American workers.

We are looking at a race to the bottom: will American labor be driven down to the wages of the cheapest Chinese laborer or will we protect American jobs by restricting imports and restricting illegal immigration?

IMO, if a Democratic candidate actually opposed Bush on this policy, they'd get a HUGE boost from blue-collar Republicans.

[Cleita]

18. Hey, capitalism as it's nastiest with social Darwinism

and laissez faire economics thrown in and guess what, we have a booming third world country economy with a few fat corporate maharajas benefitting the most at the expense of many.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

17. Denounce it and send it back to hell.

Here's why I think so.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=993089#993336

[BeatleBoot]

19. Let it ride

And watch Bush's base implode!

[Selwynn]

20. Am I the only one honest enough to say:

I don't understand all the issues surrounding the subject of fair immigration laws and standards so I can't really give any authoritative opinion on the issue right now?

What I'd like to do instead, is be directed to some good reading. I don't want America to take an extreme right wing approach to immigration, taking an us against the "foreigners" attitude. This country is a nation of immigrants, land of opportunity, and I believe in those ideals. At the same time, I'm not stupid. I also realize that there has to be some kind of regulation to the inflow of immigrants in order to sustain it, and there has to be some way to deal with the problem of illegal immigrants, etc.

But mostly, I'm just willing to admit I'm not well educated on this issue, so you won't here me making declarative all or nothing statements either way on this subject. I care about it... but I need to learn more before I speak much.

[Cat Atomic]

21. It should be a pro labor argument. It cuts through party politics.

Democratic politicians should explain what these policies do to the labor market. They should shout about how the Republican leadership consistently promotes cheap-labor policies.

Republicans will call it class warfare, as usual. Agree with them. That's exactly what it is, and they should be damned ashamed of it.

[JasonDeter]

23. What bush* is proposing the same as 'work visas' program

Isn't it? Why should the one we already have in place be replaced? JUST FOLLOW THE STINKING LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS!!

Stupid* doesn't have an origional thought in his head.
Like, "hey America! Lets go to the moon!"

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. yes........ democrats are for it ...should be anyway

[Cocoa]

25. they should call it the b.s. it is

Call him racist for thinking hispanics are stupid enough to fall for it, list all the phony proposals he's made so far, and ask him why he deported the grieving father of this dead soldier:

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=48350

Dearly Deported

Just months after Zeferino Colunga Sr. lost his GI son in Iraq, the government arrested him and sent him back to Mexico.

By Eric Boehlert

Dec. 11, 2003 (Salon) U.S. Army soldier Zeferino Colunga Jr. died four months ago from a mysterious illness he contracted while serving in Iraq and was buried with full honors in a Texas cemetery. Last week, with the family still in mourning, the soldier's father was deported to Mexico as an illegal immigrant. Now family members wonder if the deportation of Zeferino Colunga Sr. was connected to their public demand for an independent investigation into the young soldier's death.

The son's passing, and now the father's deportation, have shocked and saddened many in the small Texas community of Bellville, 60 miles west of Houston, where the Colungas have lived for nearly 20 years. But the U.S. Department of Homeland Security insists the death and the deportation were completely unrelated. And a review of the facts suggests the family may simply be suffering from a cruel twist of fate. But even the Austin County, Texas, sheriff who handled the case doesn't think it's fair that the still-grieving father was deported so soon after his son was buried.

"Sometimes I see things that I don't totally agree with even though I'm a lawman doing my job, and this is one of those times," says Sheriff DeWayne Burger. "Maybe my patriotism gets the best of me, but the man gave up his only son to serve the United States, and now we're deporting him?"

<snip>


Three months later, the elder Colunga, a mechanic and truck driver, was picked up on an outstanding warrant for having entered the country illegally in 1999. He was deported Dec. 5. He had been deported once before, in 1993, after pleading guilty to an aggravated felony charge of marijuana possession in 1987. "He was removed in '93 as an aggravated felon. After he was deported he came back, but he can't reenter the United States if he's an aggravated felon," says Louisa Aquino, spokeswoman for the Houston office of the Department of Homeland Security, which now oversees deportations.

"Tragic as his son's death may be, it's irrelevant to this case," Aquino says. "Based on the laws on the books, we don't have any recourse but to remove illegal reentries. This case does not qualify for any hardship."

more...

[LiberalEconomist]

26. The Democratic Presidential candidates should completely

reject it. That will confuse the fascist base and keep their voters home. It will also serve to bolster our Labor support. However, we may alienate some Latino voters. This could be problematic because in the Southwest and California the Latino vote is extremely important to tip the balance. It is a gamble, but may be well worth it. The last thing we need is for the Democratic candidates to embrace it and have the Lefties go off about there being "no difference between the Democrats and Republicans." This is also known as the Nader meme. The real harm from 2000 is not that potential Dem voters went Green, but that many stayed home. We don't need any excuses for our people not to go to the polls.