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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:29 AM
Original message
The Republicans are now Masters of America
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 07:47 AM by Q
THE WESTERN MAIL & SOUTH WALES NEWS, June 5th 1933   

GERMANY UNDER THE RULE OF HITLER

DEATH BLOW TO DEMOCRACY

By GARETH JONES 

----- Excerpts:

The Brown Shirts are now masters of Germany.  Every day in Berlin they march through streets bedecked with red, black, and white Nazi flags to the sound of those military marches which are rousing young Germany to a passionate militant love of their Fatherland. "...I have for my leader;” said one leading Nazi to me, “a love which is as deep as my love for my country, and I have in him a faith than which no faith, even faith in religion, could be deeper.  Hitler can never be wrong, and his orders I shall carry out to the death.” 

"...The Brown Shirts in three months have been able to gain power and dig themselves well in without the ravages of a civil war and without the delay of several years, which elapsed in Italy before Mussolini took over full power. What have the Brown Shirts done since Hitler became Chancellor on January 30? They have dealt a deathblow to democracy in Germany, and have made Parliament into a despised relic of the past. 

--- "...The Nazis (pronounced Natsi-s) have put themselves into the position of leaders in the universities, in all committees, in factories, on boards of directors, in schools, in public offices. 

--- Most positions of trust are now held by members of the party.  "...Distinguished scholars and great men, whom we in Britain would be honoured to consider as our citizens, are not allowed to enrich German scholarship or law courts or hospitals.

--- They have swept away the liberty of the press, and they come down with a heavy hand upon any editor who dares criticise the leader or his policy. 

--- They have created a secret police, which will make still more nebulous any freedom of expression which may remain. 

--- They have attempted a moral cleansing of life in the big towns and have courageously attacked social evils. 

--- They have re-organised education on lines of narrow nationalism and intolerance. 

Such have been the main lines of the national revolution.  The Nazis’ actions combine a powerful idealism with a mediæval intolerance and unselfish devotion to an aim and a leader with a brutal disregard of justice and fairplay to the individual..."

-----

http://colley.co.uk/garethjones/german_articles/under_hitler_1.htm
 
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. scary ..an african american caller on WJ just said "i was a democrat but
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 08:06 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
i switched to the republican party because in the pledge of alligence it says, 'and to the 'Republic' for which it stands' and our founding fathers wanted only a republican party"...omfg this is too fucking scary...the ignorance of our citizenry...i need/have to get away.....God help save america?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. We will survive, how I have no idea
but one thing that will be needed is EDUCATION REFORM that works
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. How can you have 'reform' when there's an ongoing 'purge'...
...of 'liberal' professors as funding is cut and diverted to corporations and the military?
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. God would want America to help itself...
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 08:10 AM by Q
- Notice the similarities? The Nationalism? The placement of 'brownshirts' in positions of power on every level of government...and even in education? Notice that the 'liberty of the press' has been swept away? How 'editors' critical of the government or policy become an enemy of the state?

-

"The Nazis’ actions combine a powerful idealism with a mediæval intolerance and unselfish devotion to an aim and a leader with a brutal disregard of justice and fairplay to the individual..."
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. "Notice that the 'liberty of the press' has been swept away? " thanks to
the deregulation sweep of the Reagan Administration
during the 1980s, the Commission dissolved the fairness doctrine...

they said they would destroy america from within ...without a single bullet being fired"...infiltrate our gov't, schools and every level of your society....nazi's have succeeded :scared:
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. Way back and I am going to say 25 years ago this was....
being said and written about. Maybe it was after Roe but I am not sure as it sounded sort of silly to me. The Christian right in the South and any place else were telling their people to get on the school boards as they were making a grass root plan to change things and books in school were where they were going to start.I am sure their is some writing on this some place. I will say I am a white person but I find it scary in this country that I see so many white people running this country. Look at congress or DOD or any place with power and it is the white people. Watch C-span. This is not a white mans country yet not much power has left their hands. Some thing is really wrong.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
56. I remember that...the 'Religious Right' and later part of the "Republican
..Revolution" was to put 'Christian Republicans' in every level of local,state and federal government. They knew that in order to control all aspects of government...they must BECOME government.

- And once they became government...nothing could hold them back in their lifelong dream of transforming America into a theocracy and totalitarian state.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. I heard that and he would most likely think this.......
Land mass counts on the red/blue map. More land red we are a republican country. Do not ask As I am sure that party is for the feelings of the people and not for logic. I guess when their cities are filled with the homeless they will say it is in the Bible and Gods will.
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nice post...wanna bet Ed Gillespie loads it up on the GOP website?
...right next to the MoveOn.org 'Morph-Hitler' ad...as evidence of the Democrat's 'hatred' of Bush.

You are thinking impure thoughts!

:eyes:
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Okay...how about this?
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 07:52 AM by Q
--- "...The Republicans have put themselves into the position of leaders in the universities, in all committees, in factories, on boards of directors, in schools, in public offices. 

--- Most positions of trust are now held by members of the Republican party.  "...Distinguished scholars and great men, whom we in Britain would be honoured to consider as our citizens, are not allowed to enrich American scholarship or law courts or hospitals.

--- They have swept away the liberty of the press, and they come down with a heavy hand upon any editor who dares criticise the leader or his policy. 

--- They have created a secret police, which will make still more nebulous any freedom of expression which may remain. 

--- They have attempted a moral cleansing of life in the big towns and have courageously attacked social evils. 

--- They have re-organised education on lines of narrow nationalism and intolerance. 

- What part of this isn't true? Which part isn't becoming true?
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Now you're on to something!
eom
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. Well some of that was the civil rights reasoning
You put a small child in school with other races and they just grew up liking each other. This is the same type stuff. It is like the colleges as most are filled with upper income people. They will become more so.What we need in a new GI bill like after WW2. That really made the classes fit what they could do more than family handing down power, as we are going back to. You sure lose a great gene pool when you take just the upper income people.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. Our version of Kristallnacht is coming...
pretty soon, we will all be wearing yellow stars with 'Liberal' printed on them.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Nah...it will never come to that...
- Republicans don't need to follow in the hobnail footsteps of the Nazis. They can and will atttain the same type of power...using nationalism and propaganda spread by the formerly free press.

- That's the mistake many make when they attempt to find similarities between the 'Radical Right' and the Nazis. The Right Wing of the Republican party doesn't have to use the SAME tactics as the Nazis in this modern world of mass communications and 'superpower' status.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. I hope that you are right...
though from the information given me by my parents (refugees from former Axis nation), the signs are all there. It is probable that my suspicions arise from the stories with which I grew up. I do know that the political progression in Nazi Germany was as insidious as it seems to be here.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. This is only my opinion...
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 09:06 AM by Q
...and I admit that I have no way of knowing what will happen. The danger is that many Americans have been 'brainwashed' into believing that it could never happen here. That we have too many 'protections' and 'freedoms' that will prevent it from going too far.

- But meanwhile...we have a government that has adopted the despot's doctrine of preemptive war against countries which have resources we need to remain a superpower.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. You nailed the problem...
right on the nose. Complacency is the greatest enemy of any society. It is as cleaer as it can be; as long as we can go down the street and purchase anything we want, there cannot possible be a problem with the society. The 'nothing to see here, move on, its no big deal' ethic is going to be our downfall. I don't know what the answer is either. I only hope that it will not come down to the same type of conflict that enveloped the world in 1939-45.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. But this necessarily will always go in cycles
If we have a downturn into authoritarianism, there will be a backlash. If there is a long and sustained downturn, then not only will we all be miserable for a very long period of time, but the backlash will be violent and might destroy our old system of government. I prefer the gentler cycles, myself. However we need to patch up the system to prevent folks like Bush from ever getting away with this crap in the first place.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. I don't disagree with what you say...
but would ask how we go about making the changes in a gentler way. I am not opposed to the idea, but with the incredible ignorance I see and hear every day, I have grown more and more concerned about the possible avenues to positive change. As far as being miserable for a long time, I guess my take on that is that I have been there before, and survived. I had to make adjustments in order to do so, and some of those changes were related to my basic approach. I do what I do because I feel, deeply, that we could be so much better than we are, and while I cannot make an immediate difference in our societal direction, perhaps my students will represent a new trend. One can always hope!
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Well, this would be a misery I'd hope no one here has experienced
Take a look at the New Deal era for relatively gentle reform, or the Civil Rights movement for reform that took both some serious fighting on the streets and some serious political wrangling. But even if we descend wholly into totalitarianism, we will eventually break out of it--unfortunately it will probably take a bloody war (either civil or otherwise) or a devastating economic disaster to turn things around.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. They can put it on my shroud.
I'm not going down without a fight. With luck, a second civil war will not be necessary.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
52. Here's your gold star for that great idea
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #52
59. Whew...it makes one wonder...
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 08:09 AM by Q
...if America could become like Germany under Hitler.

- Take a closer look at our government. Anti-Constitution legislation voted on in the dead of night by voice vote...many legislators not having bothered to read it before voting. The opposition intimidated, threatened and bullied into rubber stamping laws in the name of 'national security'.

- Will Liberals one day be forced to wear a 'star'? I doubt it. But liberals and others on the left have already been labeled as anti-American for opposing Bush* and his policies. And that's a good start for the neocons and neonazis.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. Who's Skeletor? None of our guys have the pecs for He-Man
We're still in the infant stage of any real tragedies--so far the "mockery of justice" imprisonments and kangaroo courts are par for our own history's course--it could get a lot worse, if 2004 goes the wrong way.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Corect
our chance to correct this mess is the election in November of 2004

If George should get a second term I fear a World War... and we are not in the side of light this time around
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. I hope that you're not depending on elections alone...
...to get rid of Bush* in 2004? Haven't we learned anything from the 2000 election and the dirty politics of the Right?
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Infant stages?
- Perhaps...but look at the short list again in the original post. Tell me which of those things the "GOP" hasn't already accomplished?

- Here's the deal: many who joined the nazi party never thought they were doing anything wrong. They 'loved' their leader and country.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. This is *relatively* normal, in terms of our country's history
We've had all sorts of witch-hunts and secret police nonsense in this country, and we certainly have had our fair share of moral initiatives. Definitely we have thrown our Constitution away more than a few times when it suited us.

Again, we're on that downward swing, let's hope we get out of it like we did before, and in the most painless manner possible. 86-ing Bush would help a lot. :)
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Relatively normal?
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 08:15 AM by Q
- Perhaps you could tell us about a time in America when the press has so completely been behind a 'leader'? Or when our Constitution has been so completely disregarded?

- And never before have we had these kinds of 'moral initiatives' where the government directly funds the church and corporate criminals go free as bong-makers are put in prison.

- Never before has the 'state' been able to spy on you or search your home without a warrant or probable cause.

- I submit there has never been anything like this in America's history.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Sure I can give you examples
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 08:21 AM by jpgray
During the cold war, all the hyping of the Soviets and the fear that led to massive defense spending--couldn't be done without willing media help. Our Constitution has been disregarded many times, such as the suspension of habeas corpus in instances such as the civil war, world war I & II, the use of alien and sedition acts in similar situations, there are plenty of examples.

Sure there have been moral initiatives. Prohibition, anyone? The giants of industry have *always* gotten away with criminal acts in this country, with only a few exceptions.

edit: extra letter in there
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The Soviets didn't 'attack us'...
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 08:28 AM by Q
...and at least the media back then was willing to report negative/investigative stories about the government. Today...you won't find ANY mainstream media willing to oppose Bush* or his policies.

- You have to go back to the civil war to find examples of our Constitution being disregarded? This supports the idea that the Constitution can be suspended during a 'time of war'.

- One has only to look at the words of Justice Jackson and others to see that the Constitution and rule of law were still considered even during a time of war and in the prosecution of war criminals.

- Prohibition was a Constitutional amendment...and can't be compared to the Bush* administrations complete circumvention of the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

- The 'giants of industry' are now running our government...not simply receiving favors from it.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Read my post, please :-)
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 08:36 AM by jpgray
The Soviets didn't attack us, but neither did Iraq.

Remember Japanese internment? Where was the rule of law there?

The Soviet Union was broke, and couldn't keep pace with us in any "arms race". Yet we still spent billions on defense under this false fear. Why? Because it lined the pockets of defense contractors. The media investigated this? Ah, no. They did not. Hey, you ever hear about Saddam gassing his people during the Reagan years? We supported him staunchly after that incident--media didn't touch it.

Look--when money is there to be made, the press has a way of being able to shut up about any wrongdoing. It's human nature--it's happened since the dawn of time I'm sure.

You asked me for a moral initiative--prohibition fits the bill. You want another? How about adding God to the pledge? That work for you? Back in the fifties, I believe that was.

Come on Q, this is a unique situation, but it isn't exactly *new*--we've been carrying on more or less this way for a long time.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I read your posts with great anticipation!
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 08:45 AM by Q
- You're right! Iraq didn't attack us. Hmm...then what the hell are we doing there killing all those Iraqis?

- What you don't seem to comprehend is that the Bushies have FINALLY found a way to use all the old fears...and some new ones...to take control of our country.

- This is indeed a 'unique' situation in that a small group of men have used terror and fear to take control in the form of an autocracy.

- You're asking me to believe things like adding God to the pledge compares to having a religious zealot as Attorney General? That the press has ever before covered for the crimes and malfeasance of the executive branch while calling him the most popular wartime president in US history? Never before has an election been stolen in broad daylight without repercussions to the thieves. And never before has the Supreme Court perfomed the illegal act of stopping a recount in order to install one of their own as 'supreme leader'.

- Perhaps you can't see it yet. What will it take? Another four years of Bush*?
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. This is a very bad presidency. But we've seen all its parts before
We've had crazies as cabinet members before. Hell, most of this cabinet is a transplant from Nixon's administration. We even have some convicted criminals on staff, I believe. Pre-Watergate Nixon years and all of the Reagan years, the press did ignore crimes and malfeasance and sing the president's praises.

As for what's allowing them to do this, it isn't just fear and terror. There's profit to be had.

We're now way way out from what you originally described as unprecedented, but still most of it has a precedent. What is unprecedented is probably the stolen election--there has been tampering before, but nothing quite this obviously corrupt.

I see how terrible this administration is, but I recognize parts of its corruption in history--this sort of thing isn't totally new, we've been through it before. Let's stop it before it goes any further.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. A 'bad' presidency?
- I understand your position...but you seem to be going out of your way to make a point that Bush* is 'bad'...but hasn't done anything of a criminal nature.

- The way Bush* came to power was criminal. He runs this country like a dicatorship without regard to the coequal branches of government or civil rights. He remains 'untouchable' by the laws of the land because his secretive government doesn't think the laws apply to them.

- I submit that this government is 'totally' new. Name another president that was installed by the Supreme Court? You can't because it's never happened before. This is where your theory that this has 'happened before' falls apart. Why? Because a president installed by fraud can never claim a mandate or legitimacy.

- You're leaving out many factors that have happened over the last three years that clearly show that our Democratic Republic has become a Banana Republic that disregards the Constitution, oversight and the rule of law.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Take my words for what they mean, don't over-interpret :-)
Sure he's done things of a criminal nature. Sure he doesn't give a crap about checks and balances. Sure no other president has been selected.

But there are *many* familiar things about this phenomenally corrupt administration. It is not all new by any means. We have disregarded the Constitution, oversight and the rule of law at many times throughout our history. I said this was unique, but it isn't totally new, and that's exactly what I meant.

Is it all over for our way of life? Are we doomed to be under a dictator forever? We'll see. It's not over yet. After 2004, if he's still around, all bets are off.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Our 'way of life' is already gone...but I would never predict 'doom'...
- But let's not make the mistake of underestimating those who have 'taken' control of our government. What makes them unique in American history is their power over the media. Americans are conditioned to get the 'news' and information about their government from a media that no longer even pretends to be independent of the government.

- Read the linked article and examine the similarities. That's all I ask.
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. The Third Reich lasted 12 years
but it did not end without outside help.
I don't believe we are anywhere near to having something similar happen here yet.

But the US IS being misled by people with dangerous statist tendencies - what scares me is the combination of conservative Christian ideology and national leadership.
There are other things that I worry about as well.

Its one thing to want to to what one believes is right, but to reduce issues to black and white - in order to carry them out. - is something in commom with Nazis as well as any other ideologue.

As far as the pledge goes, I have taken to ommitting "under God" from my recitation.
And what do republics and Republicans have in common? I suppose it all depends.

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. and sadly this Fourth Reich will also need outside intervention to stop it
americans are blind to it...as were the German people
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Please tell us which things...
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 08:19 AM by Q
...on the abbreviated list isn't 'anywhere near' similar?

- Aren't most 'positions of trust' now in Republican hands? (Supreme Court, Governorships, Judges, etc) Haven't "Distinguished scholars" been denounced as enemies of the state? Hasn't the liberty of the press been swept away? What about the Homeland Security secret police? Ashcroft's 'moral cleansing'? Nationalism and intolerance encouraged in schools?

- Most outside of the United States can see what's happening to us.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. inside the US too...
people like WF Buckley, Grover Norquist, David Horowitz and even Bob Barr for example are not happy with bush, who is more commie then khruschev (a veteran of the immense suffering of the 2nd world war etc) and basic law still hamstrings the 'neonazis' unless the victims are voiceless 'aliens'.... the US remains a heavily armed society and BUSHINC is terrified of it (the american people). It would take only one insider saying 'we wanted 911 to occur, so much we made darn sure it did to our specifications!' to trigger impeachment etc...and the bush crooks know it!
My point is, they (busheviks) live in a grinding terror of truth, and not one of them, or the 'conga line of suckholes' mediawhores who enable the successes they've enjoyed thus far, are free of constant, implacable and soul destroying fear and self-loathing...
hahaha!
:-) :-) ;) ;) :) :) :) :)

911 had one unrecognised affect: It put the men in the media industry who abetted bushinc's seizure of power in a position where they are forced to support bushinc or else they face justice along side the bushco traitors. Reading, watching news where outright lies (which themselves are premised on other even more grevious lies!) one knows the mediawhores are aware that they are lying, and it becomes more obvious every day. As grotesque as the american people sometimes act, anyone who's spent time in US knows they are overwhelmingly fine people (even if overly suseptible to being conned) the very idea that they are 'victims' of a con is starting to truly annoy alot of people!
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Buckley, Barr and the rest can be just as easily dismissed...
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 09:19 AM by Q
...as anyone else. It's those who have been strategically placed in positions of power who call the shots and determine what is 'best' for the country.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. unfortunately true...
but hey, it's a booful morning here on planet earth :)
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. RE: "what do republics and Republicans have in common?"
Republican (mis)leaders and Republican Guards have far more in common! They both blindly and in lockstep support and enable a despotic and deceitful Regime!
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. We have been here before. It will not last.
n/t
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Have 'we' really been here before?
- Looking back into history...I can't see where the Bush* government compares to any other...except perhaps in Germany and Russia.
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jonoboy Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
43. and don't forget who funded them : PRESCOTT BUSH
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JesusNoRepublican Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
45. Would Hitler or Bush succeed without the endorsement of the churches?
The Germany of the 1930's was a very Christian nation, roughly 40% Lutheran and 40% Catholic. The U.S. today is roughtly 50% Protestant and 25% Catholic. Hitler knew, as does Bush, that they masses would not follow them if the Churches OPPOSED them. http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/about/concordat-1933.html shows how Hitler turned prior opposition from the Catholic Church to support, and how crucial that support was to his becoming the dictator of the Third Reich.

This site argues that the battle to deny Bush the support of the churches is CRUCIAL. See also http://www.JesusNoRepublican.Org/
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
46. republicans do socialism a great favour
by destroying the credibility of american corporatism and hegemony. Perhaps more than the democrats, republicans are friends to socialism in the strategic sense. odd, ain't it.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Odd and unintentional...
- But the point is it will take decades (if ever) to reverse the damage now being done to our Democratic institutions, environment and 'way of life'.

- Maybe many Americans aren't pissed at what's going on because they don't understand it in the context of the Constitution/Bill of Rights and their relative loss of freedom?
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. America is permanently trashed
Its not recoverable. The people with noble spirit will survive elsewhere or in enclaves of "enlightenment"... The freedom to change channels on their cable TV is the only one anyone cares about anymore.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
48. The American Media has portrayed Bush* as a great leader...
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 01:23 PM by Q
- Here's an interesting 'article' from MWO...that shows how the media can used to create myths and illusions around a failed and dangerous leadership:

"...And in the atrocity of the year, The New York Times answers Mr. Blumenthal's question clearly, in this November editorial:

The Democrats need to find ways to attack Mr. Bush's stewardship without attacking his character; most Americans remember the president's firm resolve after 9/11 with admiration and do not want those memories challenged. Mr. Bush has what may be the trickier task. He undoubtedly regards maintaining control of the White House for a second term as critical to winning the war on terror. Yet in order to maintain credibility while he runs for re-election, he must convince people that the decisions he makes are not just based on political self-preservation. On that front, so far, he has come up short.

"Most Americans remember" something erroneously, prefer to remain in denial regardless of the truth, and therefore the memories (created by relentless propaganda and lies by the mainstream media) mustn't be challenged?! Yes, that's precisely the sort of outrageous assertion that now appears regularly and with little notice in your state-run media.

Presumably, the NYT also believes the Democrats must not question whether the Iraq war was necessary in eliminating terrorism, or capturing Saddam Hussein has made America safer - for the American people "feel" safer and "feel" Saddam was responsible for 9/11 attacks.  We Democrats mustn't disturb those fond memories of a triumphant and fruitful victory.

Never mind that those beliefs are based on lies, as is the notion that an illegitimate fraud ramming through a right-wing agenda by exploiting the murder of thousands of Americans is a person of "character."

The New York Times remains a craven and shameful tool.

http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/index2.htm
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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
49. What about the invasions????
Hitler proceeded to invade his neighboring countries. We have now invaded 2, have taken them over, and more are on the list. If this administration gets 4 more years can anyone say, "Iran, here we come; Syria, here we come; Lybia,here we come!" The parallels are eerie.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #49
57. It's called 'aggressive war' and the whole world scorned Hitler...
...for attacking/invading countries that posed no threat to his nation's security. History shows that Hitler used many of the same 'excuses' to attack Poland and other countries that Bush* used to attack Iraq.

- It's difficult for most Americans to wrap their minds around these concepts of war for the sake of war. That's why the Bushies needed a 'Pearl Harbor' type event to bring back the cold war feelings of constant danger.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
50. Here is a telling quote, Q
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 01:41 PM by tom_paine
"I have for my leader,” said one leading Nazi to me, “a love which is as deep as my love for my country."

Not only does it describe a substantial portion of Bushevik supporters but it is precisely that type of attitude the Founding Fathers rebelled aginst.

The Leader is not the repository of all Country, the PEOPLE ARE.
(or, at least were, in Imperial Amerika)
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. OMG! An AMAZINGLY telling quote!
Even when Germany enjoyed a period of sham prosperity on borrowed money, from 1925 to 1929, there were a steady million or two out of work, but when the cloud of depression broke over the world the figure sprang upwards with a speed which terrified politician and workman alike, and reached six millions.

Scary. Perhaps I was wrong about it Being Germany 1936. More like Germany 1928...
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #50
58. Listening to CSPAN's 'Washington Journal' every morning...
...I hear numerous callers with this type of 'love' for Bush*. They're ready and willing to follow Bush* no matter what he says or does because they really do seem to believe that he's the greatest president this country has ever seen.

- How can they be so disconnected from reality? How can they not see the truth? The same could be said for the millions of German citizens who joined the Nazi party because to them...Hitler WAS their country. Sound familiar?

- Today...Republicans equate disagreeing with Bush* or his policies with hate of Country.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
53. Here's Another Scary Excerpt from That Article
Even when Germany enjoyed a period of sham prosperity on borrowed money, from 1925 to 1929, there were a steady million or two out of work,

Sound Familiar? There's More:


but when the cloud of depression broke over the world the figure sprang upwards with a speed which terrified politician and workman alike, and reached six millions. Many families had not enough bread, and the fathers and mothers blamed the system under which their children went hungry. Revolutionaries grew in number until most of Germany became revolutionary. At one time the future seemed like a race. Which would win-Bolshevism or Fascism?

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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Bush* supporters are scary people...the type of person you would expect...
...to follow Bush* no matter what he says or does. And in fact...that's exactly the type of personality that followed Hitler into oblivion.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
60. Using mass communications to deprive people of independent thought...
"Hitler grasped as none before him what could be done with a combination of propaganda and terrorism. For the complement to the attractive power of the great spectacles was the compulsive power of the Gestapo, the SS, and the concentration camp, heightened once again by skillful propaganda. Hitler was helped in this not only by his own perception of the sources of power in a modern urbanized mass-society, but also by possession of the technical means to manipulate them. This was a point well made by Albert Speer, Hitler's highly intelligent Minister for Armaments and War Production, in the final speech he made at his trial after the war.

Hitler's dictatorship differed in one fundamental point from all its predecessors in history. His was the first dictatorship in the present period of modern technical development, a dictatorship which made complete use of all technical means for the domination of its own country. Through technical devices like the radio and the loud-speaker, eighty million people were deprived of independent thought. It was thereby possible to subject them to the will of one man....

Earlier dictators needed highly qualified assistants, even at the lowest level, men who could think and act independently. The totalitarian system in the period of modern technical development can dispense with them; the means of communication alone make it possible to mechanize the lower leadership. As a result of this there arises the new type of the uncritical recipient of orders. . . . Another result was the far-reaching supervision of the citizens of the State and the maintenance of a high degree of secrecy for criminal acts.

The nightmare of many a man that one day nations could be dominated by technical means was all but realized in Hitler's totalitarian system.

In making use of the formidable power which was thus placed in his hands Hitler had one supreme, and fortunately rare, advantage: he had neither scruples nor inhibition. He was a man without roots, with neither home nor family; who admitted no loyalties, was bound by no traditions, and felt respect neither for God nor man. Throughout his career Hitler showed himself prepared to seize any advantage that was to be gained by lying, cunning, treachery, and unscrupulousness. He demanded the sacrifice of millions of German lives for the sacred cause of Germany, but in the last year of the war was ready to destroy Germany rather than surrender his power or admit defeat.

Source: Alan Bullock, Hitler, A Study in Tyranny (Harper & Row, 1962)

http://mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/hitler/lectures/dictator.html
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