Why is the Dem party letting the RW define the terms of the debate AGAIN?

[maggrwaggr]

on this whole moveon.org "controversy" that they've manufactured.

Where are our "leaders" to defend free speech and to point out the OBVIOUS that the right-wing practically invented hate speech in this country?

Where are our "leaders" to define the terms of the argument and turn it around onto the right-wing assholes that are doing the attacking?

Where are our pundits?

This is the biggest problem with our party today is we have no leadership, no organization, and nobody fighting the fight on the front lines of the propaganda war.

Because it IS a propaganda war and we are getting our ASSES KICKED big time!

[Cleita]

1. As long as our media spreads the propaganda, all we

can do is fight back the best we can. It is an uphill battle pushing a boulder though.

[maggrwaggr]

4. We GOTTA get our own people on the air

I am so sick of the right-wing defining the terms of these "debates".

I am so sick of our party letting them do it.

[Terwilliger]

5. well, the best we can isn't good enough

but, please, blame Nader again...THAT'll help!

[KG]

15. heh.

[bobbieinok]

6. couldn't we get a group of good dem debaters

and FORCE them on TV???

isn't that what the republicans do????? the same ones all the time

[maggrwaggr]

9. we need to recruit them and hire them

that is what the GOP does.

You think Ann Cunter makes her living off her books? Okay, well maybe, but that's not how she got started.

And who's that other sackOshit, that bitch who complains about the "elites" (a group of which she is definitely a member).

We need to recruit these people, give them book deals, and get them on the fucking television sets

[cthrumatrix]

17. agreed...whoever controls the media ...controls the content

as we have grown to find out the hard way the past several years

[waylon]

2. Agreed

We need to take over the debate....(inspired another post)

[bobbieinok]

3. remember the spin on the Wellstone memorial

took something that was great and made it look like 'evil, immoral democrats kill US'

[maggrwaggr]

7. If the Dumb party was a football team, all coaches would be FIRED

heads would roll.

And deservedly so.

Where are the rolling heads?

[Cleita]

8. Yes, that was when we realized just how

low they would stoop to demonize us.

[maggrwaggr]

12. there is no limit to how low they'll go. It's bottomless

These people have absolutely no shame whatsoever.

They act with utter hypocritical impunity and laugh all the way to the elections.

They've taken the adage "no one ever underestimated the stupidity of the American people" and taken it to the political BANK.

[worldgonekrazy]

25. I was there, and TO THIS DAY I am very bitter

I just could not believe it.

I could not believe that people would stoop so low as to take a memorial celebrating the life of a public servant and turn it into political propaganda.

I don't know what to say to sum up the feeling I had during the news coverage of the event afterward. I wanted to do SOMETHING. I don't know what. Maybe throw my TV out the window. But it was probably more along the lines of strangling each and every individual involved in that.

[tom_paine]

10. Some answers

Where are our "leaders" to defend free speech and to point out the OBVIOUS that the right-wing practically invented hate speech in this country?

They are afraid the guns of the Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media will be turned on THEM.

Where are our "leaders" to define the terms of the argument and turn it around onto the right-wing assholes that are doing the attacking?

I think most of them still believe they live in the Old American Republic with a Free Press. But they DON'T and as they continue to predicate their decisions on the lies that the Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media feeds them, then they will always look gutless and confused. Some, like Dean, Clark, and Bernie Sanders, are slowly waking to the Imperial Pravda situation...only about 20 years too late.

Where are our pundits?

The only Democratic Pundits allowed to speak are usually the weakest. Also, they themselves are trapped inside the Fantasy Bubble consisting of Corproate TV Pravda and the Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media. Even worse than the politicians, they are trapped in the lies and the "conventional wisdom" which in Imperial Amerika has become increasingly Sovet-Orwellian.

Pundits that speak the truth from the Left are held to an absurdly seperate standard than the Busheviks, who may lie with impunity and suffer no recriminations.

In conclusion, I think that, as with the vast majority of Imperial Amerikan Subjects, our problem is one of obliviousness. Nobody is fighting on the front lies because nobody can grasp the full extent of the situation.

[rumguy]

11. Good questions

I don't know why someone isn't stating the blatantly obvious that this "controversy" is all twisted smoke-and-mirrors.

I don't have cable, is it still being talked about?

[Cleita]

13. About the only show you still get some truth blurted out

is when Carville or Begala go on a rant on Crossfire, which is on for a brief half hour in the middle of the afternoon and many cannot watch it. Now that Bill Press and Phil Donohue have been effectively silenced, two more liberal voices have been shut out of the media. Instead we still have "liberals" Judy Woodruff and Margaret Carlson speaking for all of us left wingers.

[grasswire]

14. "our own"...

....person WAS on TV today. Terry McAuliffe. And when the head of the RNC and Novak asked him if he condemned moveon.org and the ads, he said absolutely, heartily.

I can think of half a dozen other answers he could have given that would have had strategic merit.

But no.

[Cleita]

18. I saw that. I want the DNC to replace him yesterday

with a real Democrat.

[worldgonekrazy]

26. Bill Maher's show on HBO is good

I don't particularly care for Maher's personality (I find him too abrassive) or his politics (too libertarian), but he will let anyone say anything on his show and I for one REALLY respect that.

[cosmicdot]

16. what's the role of the Dem's Steering and Coordination Committe Chair?

In the Senate Democratic Party leadership, the Steering and Coordination Committee Chair is Hillary.

Does she help decide who will speak for Democrats?

or, Barbara Boxer? She's Chief Deputy for Strategic Outreach

or, are we soley at the mercy of Faux and CNN's choosing?

I know a heck of a lot of people have been asking for better representation in the Media for 3 years.


http://democrats.senate.gov/leadership.html

Democratic Steering & Coordination Committee (Steering Committee)

The Steering Committee, chaired by Senator Hillary Clinton (NY), works with Senate Democrats to develop and maintain relationships with leaders and organizations off of Capitol Hill. In its capacity as liaison between the Democratic Caucus and elected officials, constituency groups, and community organizations across the country, the Steering Committee keeps individuals and groups apprised of the positions, proposals, and activities of Senate Democrats, while reaching out to build relationships with communities and groups across the United States.

Leadership

Tom Daschle Democratic Leader
Conference Chairman
Robert C. Byrd President Pro Tempore Emeritus
Harry Reid Assistant Democratic Leader
Barbara Mikulski Secretary of Conference
John B. Breaux Chief Deputy Whip
Byron L. Dorgan Policy Committee Chairman
Hillary Clinton Steering and Coordination
Committee Chair
Dick Durbin Assistant Floor Leader
Jon Corzine Campaign Committee Chairman
Debbie Stabenow Campaign Committee Vice Chair
Barbara Boxer Chief Deputy for Strategic Outreach
John Breaux Chief Deputy Whip

[salinen]

19. The "media" is gone.

We can bitch and moan forever, but the corpowhores stole it and are not going to return it to us. What can we do? Dunno.

[maggrwaggr]

29. well let's vote 'em the hell out of there. They're worthless!

It is time for them to go.

We need a coach, goddamnit. We need a leader.

[H2O Man]

20. I miss Abbie Hoffman!

The guy was a genius at theater. Wouldn't it be great if there were some young people today who could use the conservative mass media such as the Fox News shows, and make the nation laugh at this administration? One of the things Abbie knew was that the inflexibilty of the media could be used to the left's advantage. Yesterday I urged people to read FDR's speeches. Today I think that young people should read a few of Abbie's books.

[zeemike]

22. I have said this before

And I don’t think it was understood.
But perhaps the young should learn the tactics of the “Freak Out”
And modified for their generation, perhaps they could get some attention.

[Mike Niendorff]

21. Agreed.

This is a *fantastic* opportunity to draw attention to the *massive* day-in/day-out smear-campaigns that the Republican Party and its operatives engage in.

For example :

-----

Rep:

"I am outraged that MoveOn.org put up two videos comparing Bush to Hitler! I demand that you repudiate them immediately and go sit in the corner!"

Dem:

"Well, it's about damn time you started being outraged by this sort of thing! Your party and its operatives have spent the last *12 years* using this kind of assinine rhetoric against virtually every Democrat you ever encounter! Your own internet supporters -- on freerepublic.com, lucianne.com and hundreds of other right-wing hate-sites -- your supporters routinely refer to Hillary Clinton as "Hitlerly" Clinton. They post slanderous remarks alleging that she's secretly a lesbian. They stage rallies outside her book-signings blasting "The Bitch is Back" through loudspeakers. One of your right-wing spokesmodels -- the infamous Ann Coulter -- has publically stated that she wishes that Timothy McVeigh had committed a terrorist bombing against the New York Times. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

"For the record: this isn't just two posters to an internet contest we're talking about here. This is an entire right-wing subculture, supported by a cast of hundreds of right-wing hate-columnists and TV personalities like yourself. And it's been going on for decades! Before the "Hitlery" era, you and your goons branded us all "communists" and "socialists". You equated us with Josef Stalin and Pol Pot, and you did it across the board, with not a shred of shame or decency and without a hint of an apology. Hell, fifty years after the McCarthy hearings you're *still* defending even *that* fanatical smear artist and witch-hunter.

"You want an apology? Put your money where your mouth is, asshole. Disavow freerepublic.com. Disavow lucianne.com. Apologize to every progressive, every Green, every Democrat in America for your decades of smearing and character assassination, and for your party's disgraceful promotion of bile and vitriol. Apologize for twenty years of hate-radio. Apologize for fifty years of red-baiting and blacklists. Apologize for forty years of FBI abuses against your opponents. Apologize for the beating and gassing of fair trade demonstraters in Miami. Apologize for the theft of the 2000 election. Then get down on your miserable little knees in front of the families of every serviceman and woman killed because of the lies you told to drag them into a war with Iraq, and you beg their forgiveness for your cravenness, your shamelessness, your corruption and the blood of their sons and daughters that drips from your hands.

You do all of that, and then -- and only then -- will I start worrying about whether or not I should apologize to you because two posters on an internet contest offended your tender little sensibilities.

But until then, you and the rest of your fellow Republican media spinners can kiss my proud progressive ass.

-----



MDN

[Nay]

24. If we had democrats who went on the offensive like this every time

the Repubs started in on us, we'd be on top. This is what the DLC should be doing -- hiring people who can rant right back at them, give 'em hell, and what do we get?? Talking heads that AGREE with the damn Republicans!! It's enough to make me rent my clothing and pour ashes on my head. This is not rocket science. Somebody do something, for God's sake, before we lose another fucking election to these rapists!!

[lovedems]

27. That was great reading! n/t

[The White Rose]

32. Well, that made ME feel better.

Thanks.

[truth2power]

23. You are so right, Magg.

Please note htuttle's post, here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=990534

Here's part of what he said, and I think it's important enough to repeat because WE'VE GOT TO STOP LETTING THEM DEFINE THE TERMS OF THE DEBATE. Offense...offense...offense.

"It doesn't matter what the left does or doesn't do. The right will still make something up to attack us.

People will judge the validity of an accusation based upon OUR REACTION TO IT. If we shrink away and act guilty, people will assume we did something wrong, even if they don't quite understand what it was! Man, basic freaking psychology -- okay, maybe 'street psychology', but still basic. If you learn nothing else from watching the Bush Mob, at least learn this one.

The only way to respond to this sort of smear is to stand up to it, not folding to it like Alan Colmes!"

Think about it.

edit: typo

[maggrwaggr]

28. Yes! Never apologize!

that is the secret to success of many a ruthless business executive.

Never apologize.

The moguls in the film business (the business with which I am most familiar) live this.

Never apologize.

[mindless]

30. Apologize? For what? Not having a message? Hate shrub wont win

I am so sick of each and every canidate offering zippo on truely forward messages for the U.S. They all say repealing tax cuts and that will pay for this or that. I dont see a single one offering positive ideas of how they will make other real changes.

It is a sad thing that none have a chance if all they preach, and thats what they are all doing, is hate for Bush or the other canidates.

I see GOP for a long time and that is sad. I am not impressed by a single canidate and they need to go for ideas instead of hate. Hate will not win.

I hope i dont get banned but if I do thats fine. I am goin to bed now. Sleep well yu'all and I hope I am wrong.

[truth2power]

31. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Please read htuttle's post again. There is a difference between "hating" Bush and allowing the RW thugs to define every issue for us. I think magg and htuttle are exactly right.

BTW, welcome to DU. :hi:

[Serenity-NOW]

33. Because WE the People

have a terribly hard time sinking to or comperhending the depths of depravity that consume the conservative mind.

Disclaimer= the conservative mind of today. Once upon a time they might have stood for something worth fighting for; but not today. Frankly as a business owner and employer I consider myself conservative in terms of economics and the environment and once upon a time I voted conservative but that has gotten so skewed I'm now considered liberal. Go figure.

Vote the bastards out Right and Left. No time to waste our childrens futures- including their lives. Better poor than dead so somebody else gets rich.