The death of the American Dream and the re-emergence of the caste system

[prolesunited]

While Americans have been sleeping. we have been moving once again to a society in which no amount of work will raise people out of the socioeconomic status into which they were born while the rich continue make to amass even greater wealth.

As evidence of the trend, Congressional budget office figures indicate that between 1973 and 2000 the average real income of the bottom 90 percent of American taxpayers FELL by 7 percent. In the same time period, the rich enjoyed huge increases in wealth, with the income of the top 1 percent rising by 148 percent, the income of the top 0.1 percent growing by 343 percent and the income of the top 0.01 enjoying 599 percent windfall.

Perhaps this could be made more palatable if more Americans had entry into the upper echelons through hard work and perseverance, but that is hardly the case. Over the past generation, upward mobility has fallen dramatically, with few from the lower classes even making it into the middle class. Only 10 percent of adult males whose fathers were in the bottom 25 percent of the population as ranked by social and economic status made it into the top 25 percent. A landmark 1978 survey had pegged that figure at 23 percent.

Instead of moving society forward, we are retreating to the gross inequalities of the early 1900s. We are undoing ALL of the gains that have been mad in closing the income gaps following WWII through strong unions; taxes on inherited wealth, corporate profits and high incomes; close public scrutiny of corporate management.

Now, the GOP is using its control to roll back any of the progress that was made as part of the New Deal, codifying the advantages the haves wield against the have-nots.
Some actions they have taken toward this end:
• Get rid of the estate tax, so that large fortunes can be passed on to the next generation.
• Reduce tax rates both on corporate profits and on unearned income such as dividends and capital gains, so that those with large accumulated or inherited wealth could more easily accumulate even more.
• Create tax shelters mainly useful for the rich.
• Reduce tax rates on people with high incomes, shifting the burden to the payroll tax and other revenue sources that bear most heavily on people with lower incomes.
• Cut back on healthcare for the poor, on the quality of public education and on state aid for higher education, making it more difficult for people with low incomes to climb out of their difficulties and acquire the education essential to upward mobility in the modern economy.
• Do everything possible to break the power of unions, and you'd privatize government functions so that well-paid civil servants could be replaced with poorly paid private employees.

* This post is based on The Death of Horatio Alger by Paul Krugman, which appeared in The Nation magazine. Full text available only to subscribers.


Some possible questions for discussion:
• How has the GOP been able to sustain the myth of the American Dream in light of these developments?
• Why has the class warfare argument been so successful?
• How can we best shatter people's illusions with the truth?
• Can true democracy thrive in such an economic climate?
• What steps can Democrats take to reverse these trends?
• Is it really necessary to have a more egalitarian society or is social Darwinism acceptable?

Feel free to add any other comments that you may have.

[KG]

1. sound about right.

now, go back to watching 'american idol' and 'joe millionaire' comrade, and you will soon forget such ridiculous notions....

[robcon]

2. I don't buy the "caste system" story.

More than 80% of millionaires are not from non-millionaire families. My cousin, who is a millionaire, is the son of a NY fireman, for example.

[PVnRT]

3. The rich get richer, the poor poorer

That is a fact, and if you look at any numbers, you will see that. The only reason that "more than 80% of millionaires are not from non-millionaire families" is because of the day-trading boom, that a scant few managed to get rich off of (assuming that your number is even right, I find it hard to believe without some kind of source).

The fact is, it is harder than ever for the working poor to break out of their situation - they make less now than they did in the mid-1970's, they have to drive further to get to jobs that they make barely enough to survive at. They're lucky if they can find affordable housing.

But, no, there's no caste system here. Nope, nothing to see, please disperse.

[prolesunited]

5. Actually, the CBO figures cited in this post

to show the growing inequity in wealth distribution exclude capital gains, so they're not an artifact of the stock-market bubble. As stated in Krugman's piece, "The distribution of income in the United States has gone right back to Gilded Age levels of inequality."

[prolesunited]

4. Do you have a citation for that?

Also, I never stated that millionaires NEVER arise from the ranks of the lower or middle classes. What I am contending and what the statistics bear out is that it is becoming increasingly harder to do and that laws are being created that shut more and more people out from sharing in the nation's wealth.

You cannot logically claim that one example proves a rule. He just happens to be one of the 10 percent that exceeded the status of his father. Does it bother you that the percentage of people able to do this has shrunk from 23 to 10?

Would you care to address any of the other points that were made? Since your cousin made it, do you think that no changes are necessary?

[zizzer]

33. millionaires ...?

You must be kidding!

A millionaire! That's chump change!

Yopu want to start talking about family holdings of 10's or hundreds of millions in CASH not a mortgage on a million dollar home and we can talk.

Your cousin is deluded if he thinks he's anywhere near "rich".

[tom_paine]

38. Oh, I'm afraid that I am going to have to see corroboration for that stat

Please do share it with us...

[prolesunited]

42. Me, too

I asked and I've been waiting all day but he never came back. :shrug:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

43. So it is with noobs and others....

*sigh*

[NashVegas]

46. No Child Left Behind

As a result of all the standardized testing, schools that do better than average see the local property taxes and real estate values shoot through the roof. NY Times reported that a month or two ago.

The failed schools will be turned over to Edison-type privatization. Think of it as training to create tomorrow's Epsilons.

A lower-income family with bright children will be forced to use vouchers or beg for hand-outs to get their kids into a better school on the other side of town.

This is how we get the system in place.

[DuctapeFatwa]

6. Here you go. Sorry I can't be more optimistic

How has the GOP been able to sustain the myth of the American Dream in light of these developments?

People want to believe pretty myths, and an alarming % of people will believe that their left big toe is a monkey's butt if they are told it is often enough by people they consider to be authorities.

Why has the class warfare argument been so successful?

For the same reason the "conspiracy theory argument" has been so successful. Dismissives such as "class warfare" or "conspiracy theorist" are social engineering techniques used to indicate that nothing the opponent says or might say has or can possibly have merit. This serves as a smokescreen to hide the reality that the dismissers have no, or weak arguments. Neither will work unless the audience, those listening to the two debaters, are poorly informed and intimidated by the dismisser, which is usually the case.

How can we best shatter people's illusions with the truth?

I'm not sure you can, since the people with the illusions tend to be people for whom "truth" only comes from those they perceive as being "on their side," even when the entities in question are obviously NOT on their side. Look at all the people on here who refuse to believe news stories unless they are confirmed by "western sources."

Can true democracy thrive in such an economic climate?

Of course not, but if most of the people believe it is democracy, and believe they are middle class even though they can't afford medical care, that is irrelevant.

What steps can Democrats take to reverse these trends?

Even if "Democrats" wanted to reverse these trends, which is far from a given, the situation has passed the point where a political solution is realistic. It is hard to find an instance of a feudal society in which the lords voluntarily relinquished power to the serfs.


Is it really necessary to have a more egalitarian society or is social Darwinism acceptable?

Feudalism is not even true social Darwinism, the "American Dream" myth has more in common with social Darwinism - those who work hard will receive the reward, etc. In a feudalist or caste society, how hard you work does not matter. Whether either is desirable or necessary depends on the goal, and on whom you ask. Feudalism is unarguably more profitable for the lord than a more egalitarian society, and the more egalitarian society is unarguably a better deal for the serf.

[hatrack]

14. DuctTape Fatwa, I'll Drink To That!

People don't WANT their illusions shattered, and will only abandon them when the repo man is at the door.

I was trying to understand George W. Bush, and looking for insights into how and why he views the world as he does. A friend suggested that I couldn't understand Bush until I understood Texas, and that I couldn't understand Texas until I understood Texas high school football. He suggested the book "Friday Night Lights", and man, was he ever on target. It's not really about football. It's really about illusions and just how far people will go to feed them, and what they will sacrifice to keep them alive.

Note to Lone Star DUers: this isn't intended as a slam on them "ignernt Texans". In light of folks like Ann Richards, Jim Hightower and Molly Ivins, such a slam is not only offensive but logically indefensible. It's really about a pathology that exists throughout the US, but which may be somewhat stronger in your part of the world than elsewhere.

[DuctapeFatwa]

26. High school football - and US politics

have this in common

"illusions and just how far people will go to feed them, and what they will sacrifice to keep them alive"

[Selwynn]

32. Exactly right, Ductapefatwa!

[Malva Zebrina]

39. bravo to that post

I agree--we all know people or perhaps may even BE those people who have "worked hard" all of our/their life. We are now in the dregs-fearful of how we will end up-no health care and no income and no means to avail ourselves of presecription medication. It is indeed a myth and--those of us who have worked hard all of our lives, mostlikely come from roots and family that has also "worked hard" all of it's life.

Working hard has nothing to do with it.

So? We worked hard--and I suppose what we are told to do is "count our blessings"--after all, we could be homeless

I sometimes think if I had it to do over, I would raise my children to be Ayn Randian followers--at least if they did accumulate some millions of dollars I would not have to worry about them.

It may be every man for himself. you know.

[tom_paine]

40. Damn, that was well said, ductape fatwa

And I am afraid I agree totally.

However, on the odd chance I am wrong, I am intending to pretend that the 2004 "election" is clean and thus work hard for the Dem candidate.

But this line of your is so descriptive of the Imperial Family it is incredibly chilling:

It is hard to find an instance of a feudal society in which the lords voluntarily relinquished power to the serfs.

Very hard indeed. 2000 was a watershed year in some many ways. Totalitarianism came out of the closet and made itself a ham sandwich. In a realted turn of events, treatments that used to be reserved for foreigners, such as Coup D'Etats, election rigging, press control, are now practiced on the Imperial Subjects of Amerika with abandon.

In other words, your average Imperial Subject is equal in the eyes of the Busheviks to your average Venezuelan, Guatemalan, Chilean, or Nicaraguan and it shows in how the Busheviks treat them (us).

And you know what happened in most of those nations if the Serfs got uppity and started threateneing the Power Struggle...

[Brewman_Jax]

7. 8 of the 15 richest Americans in 2002

got their money the old-fashioned way--inheritance. The table doesn't say if any inheritance assisted the others.

You make a good point.

8. I agree that inequality is becoming entrenched

Strictly speaking, however, it is not a rebirth of a caste system. Caste is where your race, skin color etc. unequivocally bars you from moving to another level. That is why even one example of someone changing levels disproves the theory of a caste system.

Call it what it really is -- an entrenchment of a class system. Caste is a way a class system manifests, but not the only way. So it is possible for there to be an entrenchment of a class system without there being an entrenchment of a caste system.

That is what is happening now, I think.

[prolesunited]

9. The use of the term "caste"

emerged from the article itself and was used interchangeably with class system.

As defined by Webster's, caste can be used to describe "rigid class distinction based on birth, wealth, etc." So, I certainly think it is correct in its usage as the definition is more expansive than Hindu system of segregated social classes.

13. if you put it that way, I agree

I do think that using the term caste allows people to come up with exceptions and then say that this disproves the idea. Notice someone did almost immediately in response to you earlier. So, I prefer to try to undercut that critique by referring to class right from the start.
I realize that talking about a class system in America is not very palatable and runs the risk of being accused of promoting class warfare.
Terminology is quite tricky since any of these terms set off alarms in people's heads because of their various associations.

[prolesunited]

16. As Krugman states:

"Our political leaders are doing everything they can to fortify class inequality, while denouncing anyone who complains--or even points out what is happening--as a practitioner of "class warfare."

Here's an excellent deconstruction of the term that traces its roots and development in the GOP lexicon:

A proxy for policy
Apparently confident that "class warfare" is a powerful tool in their rhetorical arsenal, Republicans have been using the phrase frequently during the current debate. But Democrats seem well aware of how powerful the term has become and are launching a major effort to reclaim the term they thrust into the political vocabulary, turning it back against Republicans. Regardless of who wins the current debate, what's most notable about the rise of the term "class warfare" is how one phrase has become so central to economic debate in American politics, simplifying complex issues concerning tax and spending priorities into a back-and-forth over the meaning of just two words.
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030115.html

[sweetheart]

10. Yet the oligarchy is democrats too

The capitalist class is both parties... and you are preaching heresay in the church of the democrats, comrade. :)

I find even more distressing the intense attacks on the middle class and the increase by millions of the poor since the 2000 coup. Yet the problem i see is that Television has woo'ed this middle class in to thinking its identity lies with the capitalist oligarchy that seeks to break them, rather than with the proletariat who is their true ally.

And this i see on this site with the true class warriors the rightful people who should be ascendent in a democratic party standing for social justice.

The problem is propaganda and mass brainwashing.

In reading "the iron heel" the author predicts in 1906 everything that is happening today. And in the division between the DLC oligarch's and the mass majority of ameirican proles, is the marxist class tension held only in check by mass hypnosis. Otherwise, there would be today open revolution, as they have gone too far, and the iron heel digs deep scars in the faces of all americans who wonder what of that constitution that was burned 3 years ago.

[pmbryant]

11. Can we avoid a Great Depression this time around?

How has the GOP been able to sustain the myth of the American Dream in light of these developments?

I think part of the answer lies in this statement of yours: "As evidence of the trend, Congressional budget office figures indicate that between 1973 and 2000 the average real income of the bottom 90 percent of American taxpayers FELL by 7 percent."

7 percent over 27 years is too small to notice, so we are all like the frogs in the pot. The heat is being turned up slowly enough that we don't realize we are being boiled to death until it is too late.

Also, the worst excesses have occurred only in the last few years, and myths die hard.

Why has the class warfare argument been so successful?

I really have little clue about this; it has always baffled me. But here are some of my best guesses.

I think a large part of the reason may be that people equate money with success, and so like to think they are richer than they really are. Back in the 2000 campaign, Gore was criticizing Bush a lot due to Bush's tax plan giving so many breaks to the "top 1%". Seemed like a good way to make the argument to me, but then I saw a poll that indicated that 19%(!!) of people considered themselves in the "top 1%".

Add that to the fact that the poor and even the lower middle classes are so busy trying to make ends meet that they have no attention left to sort out the truth from the lies in politics, and thus often don't bother to even vote in the numbers they should, and the success of the "class warfare" argument becomes less strange.

How can we best shatter people's illusions with the truth?

Well, to counter things like the "top 1%" trap Gore fell into in 2000, it might be best to make our points in terms of actual dollar amounts and not in terms of percentages. 19% of people may think they are in the top 1%, but I highly doubt 19% of people think they make over $300K per year (or whatever the actual number is for the top 1% in income).

That's just a start, obviously. I'll have to think more about this one.

Unfortuantely, the last time we had a society like this (the 1920s, I think), it took a massive, crippling, prolonged economic depression to wake people up. I sure hope it doesn't come to that this time.

:scared:

Can true democracy thrive in such an economic climate?

I think we can all agree that the answer to this is a clear 'no'. Money distorts politics enough as it is, but when the interests of the monied class (the super-rich) become so radically divergent from the interests of the vast majority of the public, democracy is doomed.

What steps can Democrats take to reverse these trends?

First, it is necessary to regain power. Can't do anything stuck in a minority in the executive, legislative, and judicial branches.

Once back in power, making sure the estate tax doesn't expire should be a top priority to make sure this situation doesn't get even worse after 2011.

Reversing the trend will be much more difficult, but returning to taxing unearned income (dividends, capital gains) at the same rate as earned income (salary, wages) will be a necessary step, I think.

Is it really necessary to have a more egalitarian society or is social Darwinism acceptable?

I would hope we wouldn't even need to ask this question. Social Darwinism should only be acceptable for the most selfish members of society.

--Peter

[PVnRT]

12. We are going down the same road

In the 1920's, lots of people were getting rich off of the stock market, regulation was on the decline, and the sitting president (Coolidge) was far more interested in just not doing anything rather than making sure people weren't screwing everyone else over.

Case in point: Bush has repeatedly refuse to fund the SEC (note: not talking about ROLL TIDE here) to levels that the guy he put in charge of it has requested again and again. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[sweetheart]

15. It'll be worse than the great depressionn

As times have moved on in the world at large.

Poverty will be much greater given absolute numbers and the increased population.

The bankrupt national government will create a greater autonomy in this with states, likely. The BFEE would not countenance a great society, leaving it to states to make the difference.

I think the result could very well be a massive lashback of states independence and antagonism with the bankrupt federal.

The national example is india and china. That is the future they're shooting at in my seeing... massive dirt poor poverty and a divine acceptance that it is the will of god... like in the olde caste system.

Prolesunited use of that word "caste" is, IMO, quite appropriate.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

24. it's going to be bloody too

look at 1880 - 1920. Union men vs. Pinkertons, both sides armed with Gatlin guns. It's going to get ugly if it gets worse.

[prolesunited]

34. Excellent, well-reasoned answers

as always, Peter.

I like the boiling pot analogy. So many areas of social, legal and environmental policy are undergoing seismic shifts right now but the results haven't visibly cracked the surface yet so many people have not noticed. To mix it up even more, we are definitely the canaries in the mine shaft. ;-)

I remember hearing about that study as well. And if people don't self-identify as being a member of a better income bracket, they certainly think they will be so don't want to stir the pot so they can't keep their millions once they hit the "big time."

I think the cultural climate in this country, fueled by the media and the entertainment industry, are trumpeting selfishness as a virtue rather than a vice. Although you certainly can't legislate a mindset, it certainly would be nice to have our "leaders" encourage us to build caring communities rather than shop when faced with a crisis.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

17. because Dems are too chicken to attack rich people

oh, no, that wouldn't be nice, some of them are so friendly, I'm sure they mean well. Cowards.

[tabasco]

19. Check out Clark's tax plan.

Seems like he's in attack mode.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. I did, it's a good start

but it's awfully late for a good start

[baldguy]

18. Millionaires are not our enemy.

Having a million dollars in assets may have been an unimaginable level of wealth 50 years ago, but today a two-income family earning $100,000 a year gets $1 million in ten years. Not unimaginable.

The GOP media has these people believing that they are rich. How many MIDDLE CLASS people did they get to care passionately about the "Death Tax"? How many did they get to believe would be helped a great deal by Bush's trillion dollar tax cut? Something like 40% of people surveyed think they are in the top 10% of income earners. The GOP media has them thinking that the Dems want to take away their "riches".

The huge tax cut doesn't help them. The elimination of the Estate Tax doesn't help them. If they're lucky, they might get a couple hundred bucks from the cut in Capital Gains Taxes - just enough for one months' payment on their personal debt.

Millionaires have the same concerns and worries as any other middle class workers - health care, education for their children, and being able to raise their family in a safe environment.

[pmbryant]

20. Tenmillionaires

today a two-income family earning $100,000 a year gets $1 million in ten years.

Only if you ignore taxes and assume a savings rate of 100%. ;-)

Yes, a million dollars is assets is no longer unimaginable wealth. But it is still quite wealthy.

I agree though, that the main problem is the excessive greed shown the class of super-wealthy people, those with tens of millions of dollars in assets. Ideally, these people would not be our enemy either. But by their political actions, they have essentially declared war on the rest of society.

These are the people who have purchased the GOP and twisted its conservative agenda into a purely pro-corporate/pro-super-rich agenda that threatens to wreck our entire economy if allowed to continue.

--Peter

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

21. they can go to the back of the bus

Sure, a nice house in California and a high salary and you're a millionaire, not a billionaire. We welcome you in the party, but you DO NOT get to run the show here. We have more pressing concerns than those of rich white yuppies.

[DuctapeFatwa]

25. People with a place to live and food to eat and a dime left over

are the enemy for those who do not have those things, and that would include millionaires.

[prolesunited]

27. They may have the same concerns

"Millionaires have the same concerns and worries as any other middle class workers - health care, education for their children, and being able to raise their family in a safe environment."

HOWEVER, the certainly don't share the same struggles. I work in a community overwhelmed by people living in poverty, so this blanket statement doesn't cut it with me.

Health care? For them, it means self-diagnosis and seeing what they can get over the counter. It's not until they end up in the ER that they receive care. If they receive state aid, they have faced dramatic cuts and still have great difficulty buying prescription meds.

Because of family environments and continuing cycles of poverty and low education levels, coupled with language barriers, these kids are entering school VERY ill-equipped to learn and the public schools certainly are NOT meeting the challenges. Private schools and tutors are not even an option.

I have co-workers who live here that are no strangers to nightly gunfire in their communities. Imagine strategically placing furniture so that no one gets inadvertently hit if bullets come through your window.

People living in true poverty have multiple and extended family members living under the same roof. Food pantries ensure that they don't starve. Water, electricity and telephone service is routinely cut off and many can't scrape us the large deposits to get services restored.

If families are lucky enough to have a car, it is shared, with an emphasis on getting whoever has a job to and from work. And they don't drive their car, usually 7 to 10 years old, to work and park it. They are dropped off so it is available for others.

So, tell me again why I should feel sorry for millionaires? When we have THESE people's needs met, then I'll start thinking about their concerns.

BTW, why did you chose to further the class warfare meme by describing millionaires as the enemy? We shouldn't be playing into the RW's distortion of language.

[pmbryant]

28. Very eloquently stated

And great point about the use of the term 'enemy'. We must not fall into the RW language trap. It is by these methods that the RW can transform the estate tax into the 'death tax' and thus fool millions of people into thinking it will apply to them.

The only 'enemy' here are those seeking to loot the general wealth and labor of this country, of the poor and the middle class, of the present and the future, for their own personal benefit. And those people are named Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.

--Peter

[BiggJawn]

51. "Death Tax"...funny you should mention that....

Coupla ditto-heads I know were going on one morning about how Chimp was "gonna repeal the DEATH tax! Hooray!"

I asked them if they were certain that either one was in line to inherit over 500 kilobucks.

"No, Why?" was the answer...

"Because," I said, "That 'Death Tax' doesn't kick in until the value of the inheritance exceeds half a million. My dad's worth over a million, but the way he's gonna spread it around, *I* don't have to worry about no stinking 'Death Tax'...That's just another Rush-ism to make you think the Democrats want to screw you."

Of course, who they gonna believe, Me? Or some dope fiend that feeds their "Cargo Cult" mentality...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

29. Very well-stated, prolesunited

I really fear we are heading back into a Dickensian nightmare.

[tom_paine]

41. Yes, the rpeated playing of "A Christams Carol" has taken on Orwellian

overtones.

It makes me laugh, when one considers that an ever-increasing number of Imperial Subjects now side with Scrooge, though he is written as such a caricature of a villain no one would ever ADMIT to being like them.

Many Busheviks to whom, "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?...my taxes pay for those institutions and that is sufficient," is an accurate staement of their personal philosophy cannot countenance being like Scrooge "because he hated Christmas".

Being a One-Eyed Man in the Empire of the Blind is no damned fun at all. Plus, eventually Totalitarian Societeis of the Blind, as Imperial Amerika is rapidly becoming, eventually come after the One-Eyed Men so they cannot relate what they've seen...

30. remember that Fitzgerald & Hemingway quote? seems apropos

F. Scott Fitzgerald said in the Great Gatsby
-"The rich are different from you and me."
Ernest Hemingway supposedly responded, "Yes, they have more money."

& money is a big difference

[camero]

23. I agree. We're back to a caste system.

Not only in terms of income, but also in who we hang out with socially. The poor, disabled and other minorities have been re-segregated and are basically untouchables in our society now.

The loneliness and isolation sends people into therapy where they are given instruction on how to conform to this new reality. And drugged up.

[BiggJawn]

52. My GF and I were talking about this tonight.

We're in an odd group, educated Poor. Not enough money to hang with the educated well-off, and neither of us like WWE or NASCAR. Really feel isolated. She feels out of step with the other members of her garden club, most of whom are well-off retirees or some doctor's "trophy", and Me, I used to be active in Ham Radio, until the service started beating off over Tom Ridge's picture and getting ready for "The NEXT One" in between critques of the Oxy Boy's latest mouthings...

If we didn't have each other, I'm afraid we'd each truly be alone.

Were' educated poor, and we're Liberals who vote Democrat. Can't get more "untouchable" than that...

Who was it said "Most men lead lives of Quiet Desperation"?

[camero]

53. Tell me about it.

That's what I like about DU. We can at least be a community even if not physically.

Edit: the quote is David Thoreau.

[Capn Sunshine]

31. Read Grover Norquist for the cues

Norquist, arguably the philosophical godfather of the * cabal, has become emboldened of late because he feels his plan is unstoppable, so now has assumed the hubris to share it with others.

His favorite period of American history? The McKinley administration. Where the ultimate arbiter of law was the corporation, who had as much influence on the populace as the government.Often, the corporations had their own police force , many builttheir own towns for workerbees. The gilded age. No income tax. Robber Barrons. A period of excess, raw Imperialism abroad and exploitation that ended much too soon for Norquist, who aspires to undo all the social progress of the 20th century, which was had at the expense of the corporations. He homestly , as do most of the neocons ,wants to return America to the lost greatness of this age.

Read up , everyone, you'll be fascinated what they just leave lying around.

By the way, Norquist views this upcoming election as crucial and is very dismayed that populism, in the form of the Howard Dean campaign , threatens to undo all he has worked for.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

35. kick

:kick:

[Woodstock]

36. The full article you got this from is from The Nation - here

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040105&s=krugman

I posted this article a few days ago, thought it was a super link to pass along...

From The Nation:

Put it this way: Suppose that you actually liked a caste society, and you were seeking ways to use your control of the government to further entrench the advantages of the haves against the have-nots. What would you do?

One thing you would definitely do is get rid of the estate tax, so that large fortunes can be passed on to the next generation. More broadly, you would seek to reduce tax rates both on corporate profits and on unearned income such as dividends and capital gains, so that those with large accumulated or inherited wealth could more easily accumulate even more. You'd also try to create tax shelters mainly useful for the rich. And more broadly still, you'd try to reduce tax rates on people with high incomes, shifting the burden to the payroll tax and other revenue sources that bear most heavily on people with lower incomes.

Meanwhile, on the spending side, you'd cut back on healthcare for the poor, on the quality of public education and on state aid for higher education. This would make it more difficult for people with low incomes to climb out of their difficulties and acquire the education essential to upward mobility in the modern economy.

And just to close off as many routes to upward mobility as possible, you'd do everything possible to break the power of unions, and you'd privatize government functions so that well-paid civil servants could be replaced with poorly paid private employees.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

37. Of Ragged Dicks and Bushes...

They are the silent.
Reticent cogs, silent mules,
tacit army-

Docile drawing force that dreams
of sex and pick-up trucks.
Of paying next month's rent.
Of six packs in the dust.

strong backs, long backs
arms and legs and hands,
they facilitate facility
denying lust that calls...

"Hallelujah, hallelujah,"
calling through
the hallowed halls,

We're only half past
destitute.
They have us by the balls!

The workers of America
struggle to survive
as they manufacture widgets
never working nine to five

like the bankers and the lawyers
insurance folk and brokers
who turn a tidy profit
juggling money, choking smokers.

The reality of life for these,
the masses building life
for those, consumptuous bleeding
breeding grogs who love the mighty widget’s

lure is fucking in the moonlight
hidden by the Chevy's dash
while dreaming soporific dreams
of bringing home the cash.

End

(copyright 1989, R.D. Stottle, used by permission)


In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Horatio Alger wrote of Ragged Dick and others promoting the American dream that is embraced by so many Libertarians and Neocons today: That with hard work and drive, any boy could rise from selling apples on the corner to become the next Vanderbilt or other master of industry.

He didn't extrapolate any spiritual ideals as they were only gained with wealth. That's beside the point.

The attitude of that day was much more realistic and supported by so many more than do today. Anti monopoly laws were put into effect, Unions gained power, authors such as Steinbeck wrote books like The Grapes of Wrath that were received by an American public that believed that Ragged Dick could realize his dreams as long as the field was fair.

That was then, this is now.

The social programs that grew after the Great Depression into 60's have been nibbled at by the greedy. The laws against monopolies laid asunder by "deregulation," monopoly, like the game will eventually see a winner. Then the game is over.

Bush and so many like him (his family) has been building on a paradigm of acquiring wealth without social conscious or spiritual thought since the 20's. The idea of acquiring wealth has now been pitched and sold as being not only an honorable and respected endeavor, but an endeavor approved by God.

This has to stop.

The rationalizations for the acquisition of power and wealth have now crossed the line of "preemptive" strikes and control of a sovereign nation's natural resources for national security (and incidentally major profits for associated Corporations and Friends).

I doubt that Ragged Dick would have left his Friends and co patriots out in the cold. Ragged Dick still had a conscious.

[Astarho]

44. Illusion

I think Illusion is the key to it. The concept that Indians call Maya

• How has the GOP been able to sustain the myth of the American Dream in light of these developments?

Many people can maintain the "illusion of affluence". They have a nice house (renting), two cars (used), a DVD player and other nice things, and live in a nice part of town. Of course they are one paycheck away from not making next month's rent, then having to sell all those things like the DVD player, but they want to believe that they are in that "top 1%"

• Why has the class warfare argument been so successful?

Because peoiple are afraid to fight it. How many times have we seen a pundit on TV say something to an interviewee like "you're not suggesting class warfare are you?" or "That sounds like class warfare to me" and watch the interviewee stammer, stumble and backtrack to try to disavow it. Plus class warfare can easily be equated with Communism, which Americans are programmed from birth to hate and fear.

• How can we best shatter people's illusions with the truth?

In the Matrix, Morpheus says to Neo most people are not ready to be unplugged, he was more right then you know. People will fight for their Illusion, no matter how bad they are, since the alternative is the complete destruction of their worldview, and to an extant, their identity. When they miss that rent check, and lose the nice house and all the stuff and have to live in one of those used cars, then they'll realize that they are not in the "top 1%"

• Can true democracy thrive in such an economic climate?

Of course not, but it is one of the Illusions mentioned above, one of which is that Democracy is real and their vote does count (and is counted) even though those with the money have already lobbied to have laws written to benefit them.

• What steps can Democrats take to reverse these trends?

I have yet to see any evidence that any Democrats (outside of a few brave loners like Kucinich, who they call "unelectable" anyway) have the desire to reverse these trends.

• Is it really necessary to have a more egalitarian society or is social Darwinism acceptable?

For most people, a little Social Darwinism is acceptable until they are on the recieving end. People are not used to having an egalitarian society, and while many will point out that no society can be truely egalitarian, we can make things a little better for the poor people. But it comes back to illusions, people think "if you work hard you can achieve" but while they're working for the moneyed interests, those same moneyed interests are making it harder for anyone to break out of poverty.

One of the greatest weapons of the gods was to promise people whatever they would ask for and then give them the illusion they have it already.

[pmbryant]

45. Democrats and reversing these trends

I have yet to see any evidence that any Democrats (outside of a few brave loners like Kucinich, who they call "unelectable" anyway) have the desire to reverse these trends.

What would DK do to reverse these trends that the other Dem candidates would not?

I think essentially all the candidates have proposed repealing the vast majority of the Bush tax giveaways (and all of the Bush tax giveaways to the super-wealthy). That right there would go a long way to helping reverse these trends.

--Peter

[Astarho]

47. I may not have been clear

I like what many of the candidates are saying, (DK just came to mind first) like cutting the defenee budget. My anger is against the Dem leadership who do not seem to fight for much, or at least not loudly enough the same one who voted for the PATRIOT ACT without voting for it.

These trends started before Bush got in, but his disatrous policy have sped them up. It goes back years, to Clinton's Welfare reform, NAFTA and so forth. There are constantly new Bankruptcy Reform bills going through congress, making it harder for people to get out of debt.

The reversal of the tax giveaways would be a step in the right direction, but I would like to see them stand up for more, living wage and so forth.

[camero]

48. Goes back farther actually

Interstate banking was done in the 80s along with corporations being given the power to replace striking workers.

I'd state a few more but I'm not thinking too good right now.

[BiggJawn]

49. I wish I WAS in the "status I was born into"

I was born a middle-class child. Mom stayed at home, we had a house in a small town, a camper that we used almost every weekend, Dad had a new Cadillac every 2-3 years, and we had colour TV in 1964.

Nothing I have today compares to that. I have a 2-y-o pick-up truck that I bought in a fit of disgust over being 40-something and NEVER having driven a new vehicle like my dad, having driven clapped-out shit all my life with the exception of the Electra-Glide I had before I got married for the first time. I can barely afford it. Insurance costs me $2 a day, the truck itself cost $14 a day.

I had a house that cost me almost $700 a month. I relocated, and wound up losing it 2 years later because it wouldn't sell.

I was on a BUNCH of meds that cost me $130 a month AFTER my insurance paid it's share.

I bring home a little under 2 kilobucks a month. Transportation, shelter, and health care gobble over 1/2 of it. Food takes a 1/5.

I don't live anywhere NEAR as good as my dad did when he was my age. Hell, he's been retired for almost 20 years and lives better than me.

I consider myself "Working Poor", just like i was under ronnie Ray-Guns.

[proud patriot]

50. Great thread....A class war is being waged on Americans

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

54. kick

:kick: