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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 12:41 AM
Original message
Latest Black Box Investigative Report
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 01:17 AM by BevHarris
Well gee, the book is done, so I have launched a new phase, funded by contributions, called "Black Box Investigative Reports."

Various researchers work with me. People have criticized me for pairing up with democratic candidate for secretary of state Andy Stephenson, saying it mixes the BBV movement and his campaign too much, but the fact is, I'll work with anyone who wants to do credible investigative work, and Andy is fantastic to work with. Today, he brought a videographer to capture the whole thing on tape.

Some of our "investigative reports" may be less than thrilling, because they are day to day grunt work that will yield the ammunition we need to know just how to agitate the system to help it become more responsive to our needs. We won't always get the answers we expect.

Today, we made a total of five visits. They were pretty interesting (to us, anyway). The following report represents just one of our five visits. It provides a rare look into the innards of the still-common punch card systems, plus details on the chain of custody and attack points for absentee ballots. At the bottom of this report you'll see the preview of our next report.

More information can be found at http://www.blackboxvoting.org.

BLACK BOX INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS — Monday Jan. 5, 2004


Citizen Audit: Thurston County, WA
by Bev Harris, Andy Stephenson, with videographer Kathy Walker

We are launching a citizen audit project to identify risk areas for upcoming elections. Today, we did a citizen audit of Thurston County (Washington) election procedures. We encourage you to pair up and visit county election offices to ask questions. This meeting was videotaped by the wonderful volunteer, Kathy Walker, and the notes below are rough and not a transcript.

Q: What voting system do you use?

A: Punch cards. Will be switching to optical scan system to comply with HAVA Thurston County has not yet selected the vendor for the optical scan purchase, and just put out its R.F.P. documents to solicit bids.

Q: Who prints your punch cards?

A: Sequoia Voting Systems. This is because the punch card ballot order goes to Intab (sp?) out of North Carolina, and this firm uses Sequoia.

Q: Can you tell us about the life of an absentee vote, from start to finish?

A: The punch cards are received from Sequoia. They come in a deck. (She showed us the punch card sample deck and how its parts can be used in auditing procedures.)

The voters complete the punch card and mail it back in. After the post office receives it, two members of the Thurston County elections office go pick up the trays of absentee envelopes from the post office.

(Stephenson): Do you have citizen observers, or a Democrat and a Republican, observing chain of custody when the two people pick up the ballots from the post office?

A: No. But we would love to do that. There hasn't been much interest.

(Stephenson): Do you know if the Post Office has done a criminal background check on the people with access to incoming absentee ballots? And do you do criminal background checks on election division employees, like those who go pick up the incoming absentee ballots?

A: No. But on the application we ask if they have ever been convicted of a crime. They could lie, I suppose.

(Harris) How many ballots fit in a tray, and what is the maximum number of ballots that would arrive in a day -- and by the way, how many absentee ballots does Thurston County typically receive?

A: About 250 ballots per tray, and the most we would ever receive in a day is about 20,000, and Thurston County gets about 85,000 absentee ballots in

(Harris) Is there any sorting that happens at the Post Office?

A: We have four post office boxes. We color code the ballots too. So there is a very rough presort into four groups, usually based on where the ballots come from.

(Harris) Does the Post Office log the incoming ballots in and give you a receipt with the number received, which you match up to the number that arrive at the elections office?

A: No -- well, not sure about that. Maybe. They probably could.

(Harris) Since the ballots are roughly presorted, the simplest attack point would be for someone to disappear some of them before they get to the elections office. A simple and cheap deterrent might be to require an incoming count report from the Post Office and compare it with the number that arrive.

A: Agreed.

(Stephenson) After the ballots come back to the elections division, are they outsourced for sorting?

A: Not in Thurston County. We do send them to another facility, which is part of the Elections Division. It is in Tumwater.

(Stephenson) Can you tell us about the security procedures at that facility?

A: They have extensive security features. A key code to get in, everyone in and out is logged in, no one is ever there alone, at night the ballots are put in bins and locked individually.

(Harris) When you say multiple people are there, how many?

A: It varies.

(Harris) What is the fewest?

A: Oh, two.

(Harris) So an attack point could be when one of the two go to the bathroom, or when one looks away, correct?

A: Oh no, I don't think so.

When the ballots are processed, we use a bar code on the outside of the envelope to call up the computer screen with that voter's signature and we compare every signature.

(Harris) I'm sure you'll tell me this, but what if I attack the system by discarding a whole lot of "unmatched" signatures in key precincts?

A: You can't just discard them. They have to go through several levels of review after the first person fails them, and only the canvassing board can make the final decision.

(Harris) Good answer. OK, continue...

A: After matching the signatures, and getting precise counts, we separate the ballot from the envelope. After this point, all we have is blank envelopes containing anonymous voted ballots, and we do keep all the signature/ID envelopes until after the election, just as a precaution.

(Harris) I know you'll have a good answer for this, also. After the ballots are separated from their identifier envelopes, let's suppose we have a conspiracy of two: someone at the ballot printing facility and someone who has access to this absentee ballot facility from the elections office. What would prevent substitution of a batch of ballots? I ask this because we have now discovered that at one point an embezzler, and currently a convicted cocaine trafficker have been printing Diebold punch cards, so that makes me think maybe a ballot printer might be someone who could be compromised.

A: No, it couldn't happen because our people are never alone with the ballots.

(Harris) But at some point one of them might go to the bathroom, and when you are busy looking at signatures or sorting ballots, you are looking at the ballot, not watching what the other person is doing.

A: But we have other measures we do. For example, we do a very careful analysis of the results of each precinct after the election, and we look for anomalies, and any trends that seem discrepant.

(Harris) Oh, that reminds me, what is your comment on the Thurston County results for Maria Cantwell in the 2000 election, that was an anomaly that literally jumped off the spreadsheet at me, especially since Thurston trends Republican and Democrat Cantwell was running neck and neck with Republican Gorton, even in Democratic areas.

(Both Kim Wyman, the Thurston County Auditor, and her assistant, Barb, answered very quickly and with some agitation). "Oh Thurston County always goes very heavily for women who run Democrat."

(Harris) Really? I thought it was a pretty big skew, though, and Cantwell only won the state, including heavily Democratic areas, by half a percent, less than a thousand votes. Didn't she pick up about 20,000 votes in Thurston County?

A: (they immediately ordered the printouts). Cantwell won Thurston County by 8 percent, about 8,000 votes, that's not unusual at all. Gore won by 11,000 votes.

Thurston always goes for the Democrats who are women.

(Stephenson) Back to absentee votes, what happens when you actually count them?

A: Well we have 2-3 computers and a server, none are hooked up anywhere except to each other, and we can see all the wires. We have a program we use for the punch card counter.

Also, we let someone come in and try to hack into the system, someone who was convinced there might be wireless, they were insisting there could be a problem with wifi, and they couldn't get anywhere. That's because it isn't hooked up to anything.

(Harris) Kim, I think you are my hero. You invited someone to try and hack it?

A: Yes. And they didn't get anywhere.

Now, after the computer totals what's in the card reader, we take a disk out of the computer and run it over to a different system, not hooked up, and use that to display results to the press and so forth.

(Harris) Tell me who programs the system. Punch cards don't have a NASED number, or certification like the optical scans or touch-screens, do they?

A: Well the system was certified a long time ago but no, not like the new systems. We have someone who works for us who programs the computer.

(Harris) What sort of auditing do you do to compare the punch cards with the computer tally? I mean, I ask this because King County had Jeffrey Dean programming for them, and he turned out to be a convicted embezzler who specialized in abusing positions of trust to engage in computer fraud. So I know you trust your guy, but what safeguards are there in terms of auditing?

A: Oh no. We trust him. And there are two-three people who would see the computer program, not just him.

(Harris) But if we don't audit the cards, at least some kind of spot check, we all have to just trust him, right?

A: We have logic and accuracy tests.

(Harris) I think L&A tests are good, but they won't catch fraud.

A: But they are very good if there is a mistake or an error in the program.

(Harris) Yes, I think they are important for that reason. They should be able to catch random error or an accidental programming error pretty often, but someone who want to commit fraud can work around them by manipulating date and time or by putting in a triggered event.

A: But we trust our programmers, and the sheriff is just across the street. I'll see that anyone who tries anything is arrested and prosecuted. Also, we do a lot of analysis for anomalies.

(Harris) What kinds of anomalies do you look for?

A: Oh, for example an area with a lot of overvotes could be an indicator of fraud. Or an area where most of the races trend differently than they should.

(Harris) So, that is actually a good answer also for the idea that someone could just replace a batch of absentee votes after they are separated from the ID envelopes, because they'd have to have a darn good idea of the trends in all the races or it might really stick out.

A: Yes.

(Stephenson) I see the Post Office as being one attack point for incoming absentee ballots. I'd like to see more of a chain of custody there. And the pickup by two employees has some risk areas. I'd like to see some criminal background checks. And even that won't prevent a zealot from doing something.

(Harris) Yes, and then I see one of the biggest attack points remains the idea that a programmer has access to the vote-counting program and we don't have auditing in place to deter that, so we are left just having to trust.

A: I absolutely trust our programmers.

NEXT BLACK BOX INVESTIGATIVE REPORT: What happened when we tried to report the use of uncertified election software to the state attorney general's office. (And the guy running out of the room was almost as good as Floridian Clay Roberts bolting upon being questioned about the felons purge.)
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. thanks for the update...
...I appreciate it!
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yer welcome.
Glad someone is still interested here at DU. We're definitely in the "grunt-work" stage, which is not as exciting but darned important.

Cheers,

Bev
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Please keep up the good work! Thank you so much for what you are doing
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I find it very exciting...
as well as important! Thanks Bev and Andy!!
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. Bev ???? ...
Is ANY two bit conman SAFE while your not writing books ??? ...

We adore you ..........

I went to a Clark meetup (16 minutes late) in Springfield, MO ... and the first thing I heard was about how important Rush Holt's bill is .....

Then another, older man mentioned how critical it was for EVERYONE to contact the county clerk and demand that NO unauditable systems be installed in Greene County ....

I just moved here .... and you can imagine how pleased I was to see such a laser-focus on these issues ...

"YEAH ! ..... ", I thought ...

"Rush Holt .... Yeah ! .. " ...

Hell: .... no one had even mentioned Clark yet ...

Chuckles .... of course, I plugged your book and your website ...

Thanks to the BBV team: I actually sounded as if I knew what I was talking about .... Those present understood (and until then didnt know) that some voting systems could be spoofed through clandestine wireless communications ....

The word is getting out there .... Even in the semi rural Ozarks ...

You are all heroes .... every one of ya's ....

I offer my heartfelt thanks ...
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Great news, Trajan,
And considering that I keep getting told this issue isn't getting any press, it is amazing now how many people I introduce myself to who say "I've heard of your work."

We're getting there. People are starting to define themselves quickly when we visit -- "come right on in, hey, make a pot of coffee for them," or "I know who you are. (grimace)(squirm)(looks at watch)

We noticed a big difference when we brought a cameraperson. Some of the same individuals who were rude, dismissive and refused to answer questions suddenly became cooperative, though they still appeared to be clenching their teeth.

As for you, Trajan, keep up the good work. One of the most important things we can do is TALK. People are starting to get it, thanks to citizens like you.

Bev
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. Keep Moving
If your lever is long enough with enough time one can move the world.

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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. And that about sums up...
our first county audit in the state of Washington...I bet the phone lines were buzzing after our visit. Now...I am exhausted and off to bed.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. Intab, Inc in North Carolina - you heard it right
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
10. Nice interview, Bev
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. Hope you'll have enough energy to carry you through the election, Bev.
You're providing something valuable to us through your writings here.

Throwing in a video camera certainly adds a new dimension, a greater intensity. A good way to make them take it all completely seriously. Wonderful.

Best luck to you, and to Andy. The story about the man following Andy was actually scarey. Glad to hear Andy was so aware of the guy, that he knew what was going on at all times. A lot of us would miss it altogether.

Stay safe.

Your work is so important.

Thanks.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
12. interesting read...
now get back up there! :kick:
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks for all your work!
So this is what Andy was telling me about Sunday....
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Almost...but not quite.
More to come...stay tuned
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. This is the groundwork that will add to the evidence
Way to go Bev and Andy.

Did you happen to note if Thurston uses the Datavote punch card system, or the "other" kind?

I think one of the items on the agenda, will be educating people, not to just get out the vote, but to get involved in the process itself.

It seems almost self-fulling to just harp on going to vote, without also working to get people involved. The complaint is lack of bodies and interest, but you'll note darn little is done to bring people to the process. Therefore, hey, systems must be structured to have as little human involvement as possible.

If all the states had a civics education that emphasized not just voting, but becoming a citizen activist for voting and democracy, working to insure the process, then not only might more people become involved, but people would come back to "owning" the process, and therefore, democracy.

I mean, look at all the vendors spend on hype. Surely the states and counties could spend a fraction of that for a campaign to increase citizen involvement in the PROCESS, and not just getting them to vote.

Disenfranchisement from everything causes lack of participation.

Besides, I don't believe that voters don't care because voting isn't easy or they don't vote on the newest, high tech gizmo.

They quit voting because they don't perceive a difference in the candidates worthy of bothering to vote. There was a great study on this and I wish I had it archived- probably have a copy under stacks of paper. If a system is incrementally rigged, say, then after a period of time, it will skew towards candidates who are pretty much alike, if that is the goal, right? Just thinking out loud here.

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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thurston uses the hanging-chad type punch system
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 12:06 PM by BevHarris
The other, Datavote, is a much better system. Here's the difference: With traditional punch cards, they come "scored" and you punch through them. This allows for some punches not to go through, and as we have noted earlier, it is also possible to selectively score the punch cards.

The Datavote system actually does the punch when you enter the vote -- I haven't seen one, but it would be like pushing on a hole punch device will punch a hole out of a piece of paper. This would have much less opportunity for accidental mis-voting, and for tampering during the ballot production stage.

I was surprised, though, at the total lack of oversight on the programming phase. They have computers read and tally punch cards, and they apparently don't even certify those systems, nor do they audit using the physical ballot. This means -- crooked programmer = cooked votes.

Now, I wish I had been more thorough in asking whether they get a basic program from ES&S or whatever to read the punch cards. Sometimes when county officials refer to their people "programming" what they really mean is configuring the ballots. What I wanted to know is who writes the source code for the card reader and tabulator.

Either way, the computer programming part of the punch card system is the Wild West, apparently with little or no oversight.

RedEagle is correct: They love to tell us that no one is interested in participating in the voting process, but we now know, partly from Democratic Underground, that this simply isn't true. There is little or no effort from elections offices to get citizens involved so we can have "many eyes" on our voting system from start to finish.

Bev
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Thurston County Uses ES&S Punchcard
http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/votingsystems.aspx

Thurston uses ES&S

The other predominate punch card system used in Washington State is Webb

Franklin and Yakima counties use the Datavote- but list Sequoia Pacific as the vendor.

Datavote is 'supposed' to be the good one, but did you know that it's Sequoia or, more likely, a company that made it that was purchased by Sequoia?

So, the punchcard may be more reliable, but again, there's that computer program tabulating the votes.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kick.
:dem:
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. GREAT JOB Bev & Andy!!!
:loveya:So glad to be getting the latest info! :loveya:

We owe SO much to you guys, and the other BBV Patriots who are helping us win back our Democracy...

Saturday I went to a newly opened private bookstore in the quiet little N.C. town I live in...a cool little book store w/ coffee, tables, sofas, etc. Sandwiched between the local movie theatre and the COUNTY REPUBLICAN HEADQUARTERS OFFICE :wtf::shrug:.

Anyway, I spoke w/ the woman who owns the place as she made my Cafe Mocha, and asked her if she had read the John Edwards book displayed in the window. She said she hadn't read it yet, but that many people who came in thought that Edwards might make a good VP. Then she said it would sure be nice to have someone in office who wasn't stupid!

YES!!!!



So we chatted a while longer, and I told her about BBV, and asked her to order the book for me...and that it should be available after Wednesday. She was very interested, and said she'd order a few copies for the store.

I plan on buying several copies of BBV, but I felt like if I asked her to order it for me, it would get the book into her store. I keep thinking that if we order one copy each from several different stores, we'll be introducing some bookstores to the book as we do so, and helping them sell it at the same time--by our own purchase.

Thank you guys SOOOO much for everything you're doing! Please keep us posted (here on DU, not just blackboxvoting.org/.com) about the progress....there are a lot of people who visit DU to lurk, and they just might get informed!

O8)Blessings of safety and success to all of you!O8)


:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. Kick for the newly arrived Dittoheads
:kick:
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Bev...Call ME I have a HUGE piece of the puzzle we need
Holy cow!!!!!!!!!

Keep this kicked
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. kick
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Back up
Kick!
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yep, again.
Everyone has got to know.

Kick!
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