Serious question....Do the majority of Americans "deserve" their freedoms?

[Sperk]

Seems to me that most take them for granted....play lip service to those who fought for them, but are unwilling to perserve them...any thoughts?

[emanymton]

1. Bush League Question ...

what freedoms are you talking about?

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ...

Is it too late to secede?

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. In any revolution or resisntance

it is only a few who take the initiative...

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, but most, not only Ameircans, sleep walk through history. Most who lived through Watergate did not know just how serious it was until the hearings started... then it dawned on them, just how serious it was.

The same is occurring right now... people, for the most part, have no clue how serious this is... once this is over they will realize it

Once this is over, I intend to write a hsitory of this... and god damned it get it published, hence I am collecting news paper articles like a good pack rack... need to start burning them on CD, and right now I think I am up to three CDs worth of articles

[Sperk]

4. good luck with your book!

One thing you can say about Smirky...he sure give you LOTS to write about.

[bryant69]

16. I'd advise against waiting

until "This is over." It's unlikely to end any time in the near future, even if we do get President Bush out this year.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[tom_paine]

17. 100% agreement -- this may never end

Like the War on Terrorism, the War to Put the American People Under Control wil also be waged into the foreseeable future.

Just the existance of such a multi-billion dollar edifice as the Party-Loyal Bushevik Sub-Media and all it's tendrils shot through the stabbed and bleeding Formerly Free Press, which continues to inch closer to being completely Corporate TV Pravda, insures it will continue.

But the situation is worse, I think, and even in the unlikely event that the Emperor* would allow himself to be dethroned in 2004, the Imperial House and Imperial Senate are soley Bushevik and through the most creative and targeted gerrymandering in National History are ikely to stay that way.

It incldues those the last of the True Republicans who aren't owned by the Imperial Family.

[lfairban]

3. Most of them, no.

Look at what a small percentage are members of the ACLU!

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. I am not sure that most American voters want freedom

There seems to be a definite move toward a preference for an authoritarian, patriarchal kind of government, and not just government, you can see it even on the internet, on this and other message boards and online communities.

I know of several boards who have, for example, forbidden any posts either poster's opinion or news stories, that the administrators interpret as "not supporting the troops" or "casting the troops in a bad light," and on this board, people can't seem to get enough of rules and restrictions on what they can say - the more complicated and intricate the better!

In schools, zero tolerance policies expel 5 year olds who brandish chicken fingers and say "bang! bang!," little girls are sent home for giving each other aspirin, and the employee handbook writing industry never had it so good.

[Columbia]

6. I think few care...

or even understand what freedom truly is.

"Those who give up liberty for the sake of security deserve neither liberty nor security."

- Ben Franklin

[RandomKoolzip]

7. How about some specifics.

Otherwise to me, this question sounds like somethin' a republican would throw at us.

Which freedoms, how specifically are we to "preserve" them, who exactly "fought" for our "freedoms" and how, etc.? I hate vague questions....

[Columbia]

8. I'd start with the...

Bill of Rights and go from there.

[paulthompson]

10. poll?

I remember seeing a poll from about a year ago where 50% of Americans said they would agree to a suspension of the Bill of Rights if it could help in the "war on terror." I don't remember the exact wording or source, but I was very shocked, and still am.

What's the quote from Ben Franklin?

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security."

Poor Ben must be rolling in his grave right now.

On the other hand, I think many Americans wouldn't be so quick to throw away their freedoms if the mainstream media hadn't deceived them and scared the shit out of them all these years.

Another quote, from Katherine Graham, owner of the Washington Post and thirty other US newspapers until her death a few years back:

"We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things the general public does not need to know, and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows."

[RandomKoolzip]

11. Well, I think humanity in general, no matter what country

a human claims as his/her own, is entitled to as much freedom to do whatever the fuck he/she wants, as long as it does not entail others to be harmed or severely inconvenienced....... Okay, so...Taking that as a given, I'd say, yes we all here deserve our freedoms.

The thing we've done to deserve them? Breathe.

I don't tkae my ability to do what I want for granted; that's why I'm here and not watching football right now.


On a seperate note:

What a lot of people have mislabelled as "apathy" is really a problem of "too much work." Most people in America are too damned busy working two jobs to pay their bills to "fight" for their right to be "free." Is wage slavery freedom? It certainly seems to be the current definition....


I know a lot of people who are not politically active because it simply interferes with their ability to make enough money to eat. Concepts like "fighting for freedoms" mean little to them. Concepts like "16-hour day" and "minimum wage" carry more resonance. We can debate all we want about the Bill of Rights, but what is currently called "freedom" looks an awful lot like sharecropping to me.

[DivinBreuvage]

20. You offer good insight into the question of why so few Americans

seem to be as outraged as some DU folks thing they should be.

This type of thread (Is the Republic dead? Do Americans deserve freedom? Are the American people sheep?) pops up frequently here. It's certainly understandable, because it's natural for a person who believes strongly in something to be angered, saddened, or puzzled by the failure of others to respond with equal enthusiasm to that belief; particularly when one has a significant moral and emotional investment in that belief, as most of us here do with love of country or the right (by "right" I mean justice, fairness, and human decency, not conservatism).

Simply consider that the right-wing equivalent of DU also features numerous posts condemning the American people for their apathy and indifference. There are posters in both places who love to refer to their countryfolk as "sheeple". This alone should suggest that some of us here might be well advised to think a little more seriously about this topic before flinging out cheap rhetoric.

Yes, the majority of Americans do put a higher priority on other issues than national politics, often for significant reasons, as RandomKoolzip has pointed out. But a familiarity with history will show that this has always been true. The majority of Americans didn't support the Revolution; it was incited, fought, and won by a minority. The majority of Americans didn't support the abolition of slavery; it was incited, fought for, and won by a minority. The majority of Americans didn't pick up guns and shed blood in the streets during the Depression, nor, for a long time, did they see any particular reason why the US should fight the Nazis; yet the New Deal reforms and V-E day came notwithstanding. In our own time the triumph of the right wing has been carried out by an organized and passionately committed minority.

Contrary to popular belief, the Russian and Nazi revolutions were both carried out by minorities. Lenin, for one, understood full well that only a minority would be willing to work for it but that a minority could in fact get the job done.

It is fruitless to blame the American people for the current state of affairs. Nor is it fair to expect them to be more committed, organized, and aggressive than the political and intellectual leadership of the Democratic Party! If we ourselves as a committed minority cannot get the job done, then the fault is in the stars or in ourselves, not in our countrymen.

(edited for spelling)

[SOteric]

9. I guess that depends on your criteria for 'deserved.'

Personally, I think all people deserve freedom simply because they're alive.

I don't believe, in the best case scenario, we should have to struggle for freedom. But as we do, why should some have greater right to it than others? Who can say the nature of one librarian's brave struggle or a single soldier's personal cowardice but for God?

[Dookus]

12. exactly right, SOteric....

one of the finest ideals of the Enlightenment was that our mere existence pre-supposed that we had rights.

It was a fine idea then, and it's a fine idea now.

[classics]

13. Who are they earning them from?

You?

[Indiana Democrat]

14. Rights are God given...

There is no "Deserving" about it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. You must be referring to the GOP Chickenhawks.

[LMacNeill]

18. Deserving of "freedoms."

First of all, let's define what you mean by "freedoms." It appears to me that what you are talking about are "rights," not "freedoms." There can be no such thing as "freedomS" (plural, emphasis on the "S") because freedom is an absolute -- you are either free or you are not free...

Within that freedom, you have certain God-given unalienable rights... This is what most people are talking about when they refer to "freedoms."

So, I say yes the American people deserve their unalienable rights -- simply because they are alive, conscious human beings created by God (or whatever higher power in which you believe)...

Do I think that everyone should be aware of their rights and not take them for granted -- abolutely, but it's not gonna happen in this imperfect world... It will always be a small (but hopefully vocal) minority that speaks up for the protection of our rights...

Another respondent to this thread mentioned that most people are too busy working to think about their rights -- that's absolutely the truth! However, it's my opinion that the reason WHY most people are too busy working is because they have to pay WAAAY to much in taxes and the hidden costs of government over-regulation (like the minimum wage, to name one)... We are NOT free when we are taxed and regulated to death... Free us from THIS oppression and then more people would have the time to make themsevles aware of the ridiculous manner in which ALL of our rights are being infringed -- then real, positive changes could be made to re-assert our rights. Our government was supposedly created to PROTECT those unalienable rights, not to usurp them! (Read the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Federalist Papers... It's in there, I swear -- although you wouldn't know it looking at most of today's policiticians...)

Laurence MacNeill
Atlanta, GA

[OldEurope]

19. I don´t think, that anybody has to deserve freedom.

Freedom is not sort of a reward for anything. Freedom is a human right, that any person has just because he/she (it?) is a person.
Doesn´t matter at all if she/he is active in politics or intelligent or rich or challenged or what ever. Doesn´t even matter if they are Americans. ;-)