Why don't we open our arms to "illegal" immigrants, not close our minds.

[Phatfish]

After reading a previous post about the Paul Revere Society's top 10 list, I can't understand why someone lacks so much compassion for a fellow human being. I live in south Florida where the immigrant question is so vital to the people who live here. I see how immigrants, legal and illegal, are treated not as second class citizens but as second or third class human beings. It breaks my heart to see people living in so much poverty in a land that affords people of privilege so much opportunity and luxury.

Proponents of tougher immigration laws say these people do not deserve to be her, but what why should I be allowed to be here; becasue I was born. Many immigrants traveled through deserts or across oceans just to be able to provide a better life for them and their families. Yet, some of us feel we have the right to tell them that they aren't welcomed and don't have the right to live here in this country. I would love to hear their answer if someone asked them "what would happen if someone who lived here told your parents/grandparents/etc. that they didn't deserve to be here when they settled on this land?"

Critics say illegal immigrants use our resources and services and pay no taxes, therefore are leeches of true Americans. If we opened our hearts and let immigrants come forward without fear of deportation, I believe at least 90%+ would come forward and apply for citizenship. That is the reason that they came here in the first place. Then they could become part of the American dream and lift this country up.


I'm sorry for the sloppy rant I just went through. I just thought I had to say something. What do you all think? I'd love to hear what you bright people have to say. I have got to run, Im taking the family out to dinner.

[blondeatlast]

1. In AZ, we see this kind of schist all the time.

Right now, my terrific city councilwoman is fighting a vicious recall (though it is apt to fail). The reason? She helped bring an employment center to north Phoenix; a modest building cooled with ceiling fans, a place to sit down, and with drinking water. The immigrants used to hang out on streetcorners waiting for day labor; now they have a decent place to go; the employers have a place to find them, and the businesses these guys hung out at are delighted.

I've no illusions; these guys are working illegally, but in Arizona (as I'm sure in FLA as well), you cannot get the natives to work construction, landscaping, etc. in the summer. I doubt there has been a single job LOST to an immigrant, if anything, they have created jobs. They are integral to the construction industry out here. Yes they are being exploited by the employers, but in the end, it works out for almost everyone.

Arizona's economy grows on the blood, sweat, and tears of these guys. The construction, hotel/tourist, and agriculture know this.

[Clete]

2. I agree with you.

But most people would rather not see the injustices heaped on these people. Regardless of what conservative racists would like to tell you, these immigrants, both legal and illegal, are necessary for our economy. Without those people who do the menial work, our crops would not be planted, nor harvested without large losses. Those who benefit most from the service industries, like restuarants, and those who need domestic help would have to raise their own children and clean their own toilets.

I have brought up a suggestion with my congressional representatives about instigating a guest worker program. If an employer cannot find a legal resident to work for him, he should be free to recruit from south of the border. This also would protect the immigrant worker from abuse and exploitation. Many details would have to be worked out but I think the results would be more humane and efficient than the system we have now.

[DarbyUSMC]

3. I don't know how bright I am, but I did a web page today

that talks about this subject. This is the link. :)

<http://santacatalina.homestead.com/imagine.html>

[newyawker99]

16. Hi DarbyUSMC!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[JohnKleeb]

4. agreed

I am open to immigration for a number of reasons but heres the main reason I think of my own ancestors would they want to be treated fairly so in affect I respect and welcome immigrants.

[Dirk39]

5. Thanx for this post...

I live in Germany and I feel and think the same way. I always feel ashamed, when people offend illegal immigrants. Most of the time, it tells a lot more about the offenders than about the immigrants.
Most of the times, people will answer within a second "what happens if we take them all?", "we can't take them all" etc.
I know a lot of immigrants here in Germany, some of them are illegal.
Some of them are working for about 5€ an hour, they are living here for years, have never ever done anything criminal, apart from being here. And they live every day, every hour with the fear to be caught by the police. Just think about what this means for a human being.
"Nobody is illegal!",
Dirk

[conservdem]

6. Would you have any limits on imigration?

I would like to see the boarders tightended and the illegal immigrants sent home. IMO immigration should be tightly regulated.

[blondeatlast]

13. Why?

nm

[Mountainman]

7. Immigrants pay taxes

They pay sales taxes on their purchases. The pay gasoline tax, telephone tax, you name it they pay it just like we all do. And if they work for an honest employer they have income tax deducted from their paychecks along with social security, SSI and Medicare taxes.

The charge that immigrants don't pay taxes is ludicrous.

Here in the central valley of California there are many agriculture workers. I don't know the percentage that are illegal but the draw that brings them here is the jobs that most of us don't want to take. They help keep food prices low because the cost of mechanization is greater than the cost of hand labor.

Also it is my opinion that each succeeding generation of immigrants have a better life style than their parents. They are well educated, speak more languages than most of us and are very family oriented. Immigrants have all the character traits that we say all of us should have. They are hard working. They save their money. They support their parents. on and on.

I think that if you are opposed to immigration because of the diversity it brings to this country you are like a salmon swimming up river.

Immigrants are here and will continue to come here as long as they feel they can make a better life for themselves and their families.
Being angry at immigrants only hurts you not them. You are wasting precious moments of your life you could be enjoying if you would lose the anger.

[Hanuman]

8. Here's what has to happen...

for America to "get it right" with regards to immigration. First of all, America has always been the country with the most open policy towards immigrants and should always be that way. We've gotten stronger and more well-rounded because of immigration.

However, immigrants MUST be documented. Crossing the border to work should be legal, safe and easy. But on crossing, the immigrant is documented, photographed, given an ID and a Social Security number. He is then allowed to work temporarily in the U.S. and is also allowed to apply for citizenship. While working, he pays any and all income taxes that are due. He must get re-documented from time to time in order to keep working.

Immigrants that participate in this program are entitled to any and all benefits due an American citizen. Immigrants who do not participate are entitled to NO BENEFITS whatsoever. And non-participants are subject to immediate deportation.

That's the way it has to be in order to be fair.

[sandnsea]

9. I just disagree

All this does is allows businesses to pay illegal immigrants less and provide them with less workers' protections. It drives the labor standards down for everybody. I worked in a potato packing plant that thought they would never be able to get legal workers after the last tightening of immigration laws. They did. And I live in a tourist town and there is no problem getting local high school and college kids to clean toilets or do any other menial job. Oh, but the pay here is $7.50 an hour. Nobody recruits foreign workers here either. Alot of this "I can only find immigrants to do the work" is cheap labor propaganda that Dems ought to know better than to buy into.

[amazona]

10. immigrants contribute a lot financially but...

I am opposed to further immigration. The nation is already badly overpopulated. There is virtually no old-growth forest at all left in my state. Every day, there is another stand of trees clear cut and another bit of habitat destroyed. At some point, you have to make a choice. You cannot both have freedom and the crowd. America used to stand for a dream, and that dream was the frontier, open spaces, wildlife, beauty. Now it is a strip mall. I think the thing we need to be doing is working to create an American Union and to lift the Mexicans, Guatemalans, etc. up to a standard of living where they can live good lives in their own nations. I don't believe we can or should be giving out any more citizenships, except to people who are born here. I would even support an amendment to the constitution so that women who come and give birth on shopping trips (as some South Koreans do) do not receive American citizenships for their children. It sounds cruel to say this, but the boat is full, and it is also cruel to mow down the entire country and replace it with housing tracts and agricultural desert. The species we destroy will not be created again, and when the entire continental United States is an ugly desert of soybean and ticky tacky, we will not get back our wildlife or our natural heritage. It has to stop sometime. Fortunately, I think the intelligent immigrant is probably going to start going elsewhere, as our social services suck and there are so many better options like Canada or Ireland.

Everything can't be about money. I realize immigrants do contribute a great deal to the GNP but there comes a point where we need less GNP and more wildlife. I am sick of not having any private quiet beautiful place that isn't instantly discovered and chopped down by some developer. Are we to be left with nothing but pavement and skyscrapers?

[Phatfish]

15. thanks for all the replies

I just wanted to vent and I wasn't expecting any responses. However, this whole world is overpopulated. It is a huge problem that needs to be addressed within the next 20 years or there will be no turning back. I agree with your point about lifting the standard of living up around the world and hope there are more people who feel the same, but sating that "the boat is full, go somewhere else" is a shame to what America was founded on and isn't what we need as a solution. It is similar to the people who want change in there area but scream N.I.M.B.Y. (Not In My BackYard) when it tries to occur. Also, as of 2001, there were only around 5 million undocumented immigrants in the US (about 2%). This is not a small number but it is by no means an epidemic to the W.A.S.P.s in our country and our way of life.




by the way, my cat, "killer" says hi to you all

[swinney]

11. Illegal is still illegal

If our laws kept them out why not ask them to leave?

Remember that Bush promised Mexico's Presidente Fox he would pardon all illegal immigrants and give them amnesty.

Fox opposed war. Zap. No amnesty. Another of Bush 191 Lies.

What would have happend had he done it. Go back to Reagan giving amnesty all illegals in 1985.

Immigration was 400,000 per year. Five years later when they became citizens immigrantion grew to 1,500,000. Because they could bring entire family to America.

1,500,000 would be a small number five years hence had Bush followed through.

Do not forget GWH Bush. He increased immigration quotas by 40%.

I reside in an Historic district which is now known as Little Mexico.

I hzve no problem. I like Hispanics. It is the revolt which may follow when they take over city government.

[GBD4]

12. Tom Tancredo is the problem

To reiterate a post from a few days ago . . .

You can turn CSPAN on at 11 p.m. Eastern time and there Tancredo will be, with enormous posters mounted on easels, whining about some bad experience a family had in CA, AZ, NM, or TX. The only person he's talking to is the CSPAN camera, it's not like 434 other Congressmen have bothered to stay for his rant.

As said, illegals do pay taxes including federal income taxes (as written up about in the New York Times this past March or April) and so they cannot be draining any services when they are contributing to the pot of money that funds these government services. They're going to be here anyway, so we might as well let them be as productive as possible and let them test for a driver's license and ultimately gain citizenship. If Cubans who manage to get here can stay, then so should people who have trekked from Guatemala, Nicaragua, or have come on boat by Haiti. It's time for consistent immigration policy. (And so I feel compelled to add) Bob Graham has routinely stood up for Haitian immigrants and has argued for such a consistent policy. These immigrants risk their lives to get here and are thrilled to be here, so we ought to say thank you for appreciating what America has to offer and what America values and for loving America -- we are glad to have you be a part of this nation, welcome.

[bicentennial_baby]

14. LOL

Yes! Tom Tancredo = Obsessed with illegal immigrants!

I have to laugh every late-night that he's on...preachin to a nonexistent choir!

[newyawker99]

17. Hi GBD4!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[nannygoat]

18. Our whole immigration policy is schizoid...

On one hand we have this huge bureacracy dedicated to locating and deporting undocumented people (the INS or whatever it's called now) and on the other hand there are thousands of employers (lots of them flag-waving repukes) who hire undocumented people willingly (and knowingly) to make sure they have a guaranteed (and cheap) labor force available to them.

These employers violate the law (there are severe employer sanctions in place for people who knowingly violate the law regarding the employment of undocumented people) but they will never be caught because they are usually well-connected and there are not enough inspectors available for enforcement of the laws.

Besides the way workers are abused, what I hate most is that undocumented people are used as "union busters". I had high hopes after the IRCA (Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986) that finally farmers and other employers, because there was a limited number of newly legalized workers, would have to pay workers more. However, another part of IRCA was the expansion of the H-2A program, a guestworker program which allows farmers to "import" workers by claiming that there are labor shortages in their areas.

Even though farmers had to comply with the H-2A program regulations and provide "better" wages and working conditions than most domestic farmworkers received, farmers knew that in the end the H-2A regulations would not be enforced in the same way that the existing laws regarding farmworkers were not enforced. And, yes, there may have been labor shortages in rural areas due to people not being willing to work for paltry wages in terrible conditions any longer when they could get a job in construction or a poultry plant. But, this shortage should have caused wages to rise and working conditions to improve and instead the H-2A program served as a safety valve and resulted in decreased wages and increased unemployment for domestic farmworkers (African Americans and newly legalized Latino workers). In addition, one aspect of the H-2A program was that a farmworker who was brought in under the program, worked at the discretion of the farmer, meaning that if they were a rabble-rouser, the farmer could fire them practically at will and exerted tremendous control over these workers. If the farmer fired the worker, then the worker had to go back to Mexico and would be out the money that he or his family had raised to send him to the US. Sometimes workers would leave their contracts and then they would become "undocumented"; thereby increasing illegal immigration, something this program was supposed to stop…

I worked for 11 years with migrant farmworkers in NC and part of my job involved visiting churches to talk about farmworker conditions. Sometimes when I would go to churches, people would ask me, "How many of the workers are illegal?" I would just reply something like, "There are lots of people who are undocumented. But Jesus wouldn't really be concerned with borders. These people are up here working extremely hard, in terrible conditions, to do work that most Americans would not want to do. They also send lots of money back home to their families. This is money that actually goes to the people who need it, unlike our government sending money to their government which probably gets ripped off at the highest levels." That usually stopped that line of questioning.