need info to send conservative brother

[godhelpus]

I would like to send my ultra conservative brother some solid, mainstream-media info that contains proof that Bush used the WMD argument above all others to convince the country to go to war. I know, you're thinking, who doesn't already accept this? Well, xmas dinner begat a long debate where he basically stated that he thinks the media is taking the WMD thing out of context; that Bush gave a long list of reasons to go to war and the media has decided to focus on this one. I told him I thought I could refute that, but I need some help.

I also need a mainstream source to show him that the 1990 Kuwait incubator story was a PR fraud instigated by hill and knowlton. I have seen the info on PR watch, but would prefer to use a more "acceptable" source.

OF course, no matter what I show him, he will just chalk it up to the "liberal media." ick.

Thanks in advance to anyone that can provide some good links.

Mary

[trotsky]

1. Some links

Babies in incubators
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p25s02-cogn.html
(Even a right-winger should be able to accept the Christian Science Monitor.)

Justification for war
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/125046_wmded.html
(This short article has a direct quote from Bush*.)

Feel free to do a Google search on "Iraq war justification" and you'll find lots more.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Tell your brother

To prove his assertion that WMD was not the number one reason for going to war. We are way too polite with the loons. Someone is always asking for advice how to disprove a freepers claim. INSIST THEY PROVE THEIR ASSERTIONS. You have to be a mindless drone who "looks" at the radio all day as limbaugh tells you how to think to not believe the fact that WMD was the number one stated reason.

Piss him off real good. Tell him bush used WMD as the reason to go to war because the american people would not accept the truth. The truth being bush obeyed cheney's energy task force order to secure the oil fields by force for halliburton. Then look him in the eye and tell him to prove otherwise. While you are at it ask him why bush got away with deserting his military unit and committing corporate crime at harken. If he objects, tell him to PROVE otherwise.

[beyurslf]

9. Thank you. That is the most sensible thing.

I have a friend who is a neocon Bush lover. He insists WMD have been found and that I have to "prove" otherwise. The absence of news media reporting that WMD have been found is not "proof" because the "liberal" media is hiding it from us. He is an idiot. I think a few shots to the head with a 2 by 4 might wake him up.

[SheilaT]

3. You might want to get him to read

the U.S. Constitution and the U.N. Charter. Bush violated any number of provisions of both those documents.

A simple google search will do good also.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ima_sinnic]

13. special links for this very special visitor to DU

The Thirty-Year Itch

Blood Money

knowledge is power; ignorance is bliss

this is also a good place to bring back one of my very favorite Ward Sutton cartoons:

[Bandit]

18. I know you won't respond because you can't and save face but....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=291653

All you need to do is educate yourself to the truth instead of propaganda. Read the link above. It is quite current as it was page one news yesterday.

[many a good man]

19. Spoiling the Spoiler

FACT: Bush lied to Congress, the American people, and the United Nations to gain support for the invasion. He presented intelligence of WMD as "conclusive" when he knew it was not.

Fact - Sadaam admittedly had weapons of mass destruction

Admitted when? Early, mid, or late '90s? In 2002 Saddam told the UN he destroyed his WMD and allowed inspections to resume to prove it.

Fact - Sadaam never proved that he got rid of the weapons of mass destruction

That's true. It was a grave miscalculation on his part. He needed to keep his people and other nations wondering so he could show strength. Otherwise he figured he would be open to insurrection or foreign invasion. UN inspections would have eventually proven he had actually destroyed them all like he said all along.

Fact - Sadaam kicked out the weapons inspectors
Not true. Clinton ordered inspectors out in 98 in preparation for Operation Desert Fox. Saddam refused to readmit them afterwards.

War for Oil: I agree this is a simplistic construct. However the fact remains that Bush* would probably not have undertaken a dangerous mission like this for purely "humanitarian" reasons unless vital US interests were seen to be at stake. What vital interest do we have in Iraq? Oil, plain and simple.

Foreign policy by deception: The administration may have had legitimate geopolitical strategic reasons for invading. But they used WMD to "sell" the war. They used WMD to invoke a fearful emotional response that would be more effective in persuading people than realpolitik.

The fact remains Bush* knowingly lied about WMD to sell the war. Any other reason would have failed the litmus test for a justifiable preemptive war because the danger would not have been imminent or grave enough.

Note: The devil keeps a special section in hell reserved for leaders who provoke unjustified wars that kill thousands of people.

[ima_sinnic]

23. tombstoned!

gee, I wonder why? :shrug: :crazy:

[godhelpus]

26. I'm a little disappointed I didn't check back in time

to read the deleted responses. Woulda been fun, I think.

[Nlighten1]

5. Here you go...

http://www.praesentia.us/archives/dishonestdubya.html

http://www.praesentia.us/archives/remindus.swf

[many a good man]

7. Get this documentary...

Its called "Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War."

This documentary exposes the Administration's misuse of intelligence to justify the invasion by interviewing highly credible experts in the CIA, State Dept, Pentagon and other agencies. It shows numerous video clips of W, Dick, Rummy and Condi repeating over and over again the "grave" threat posed by Saddam's WMD and the "smoking gun in the form of mushroom cloud." There is analysis of how the nuclear threat was decisive in gaining political support.

While this film doesn't really address the other reasons against Saddam, it makes a thoroughly compelling case. You can purchase it through a donation to moveon.org, ACT, buzzflash or some other liberal websites, or you can get direct from the producers for $15 at http://www.truthuncovered.com/

Check it out!

[G_j]

22. This is particularly good for someone who doesn't like to read a whole lot

I believe it's already opened some minds. It's worth the price, DVD or video.

[G_j]

8. You can try this

I know a few folks have sent it to their Republican friends. Of course, some people don't want to be confused with facts. :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=965485

[SpoilingTheFun]

12. Where's the beef?

From this link, you are provided another link that is a compilation of quotes from stories in the NYTimes, LATimes, CBS News, and many other liberal media sources. There are some rather innocuous quotes from more conservative and non-partisan sources; the main thrust, however, is in what the liberal sources are speculating.

Where's the beef?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

15. 'Liberal' Media Sources?

You would prefer they use the lies on free republic or some other fascist rag?

[ima_sinnic]

16. see his post above to find the answer to your question

--pretty obvious

[Kathy in Cambridge]

17. Yikes!

Should we start making bets on how long this one will last?

;-)

[HootieMcBoob]

10. This should settle it

How about this gem?

On May 28, in a Vanity Fair interview, deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfowitz, a key architect of the Iraqi war, told of the administration plotting to sell the war to the American public.

"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue -- weapons of mass destruction because it was one reason everyone could agree on."

Here's an article by Helen Thomas that uses Bush's own words. You can't get any more mainstream than Helen.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/154440_thomas30.html

[Oilwellian]

11. Frontline did an excellent expose'

If your brother has a computer, he can see it online here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/truth/view/

[WoodrowFan]

14. useful links, Bush's own words

Bush August speech making the WMD claims

The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons.
We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas.
We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2309049.stm



March 2003 Blix report.
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/documents/6mar.pdf

Iraq probably destroyed its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in the early 1990s, the former United Nations chief weapons inspector Hans Blix has said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3323633.stm


and finally, Bush’s ultimatum to Saddam just beore the war started. the first reason given, and in fact the ONLY reason given..

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.

….

The danger is clear: using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfil their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country or any other.

[many a good man]

21. Excellent response, Woodie

You nailed it!

[never cry wolf]

20. Here's a couple:

The links themselves are not mainstream but they use shrubbie's and his admin's own words.

http://www.presentdanger.org/papers/iraqspresp.html

http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html

[salin]

24. Back somewhere between late August and early October of 2002

60 minutes ran a segment that fits the bill you are looking for. The story was about the long history of adminstrations having to use a PR campaign to sell a war. Goes back 100 years. Finally it moves to the documented farce of the babies in incubators to sell the first Gulf War. They made the point that even after the invasion into KuWait, the public was NOT behind going to war over it. It wasn't until this story that stirred horrendous outrage that they got the public support needed to proceed with the war.

Then (this is before the congressional vote)... the move to the current public sentiment about the presidents push for the war in Iraq... and they point out that nothing was taking hold - until the speculation around nuclear weapons of mass destruction - was brought into the conversation. Then they demonstrated how some of the stories then being pushed to make that picture were already debunked (eg the aluminum tubing.) If you can find and buy this segment, and show it to him, and supplement it with various news items from the preceding weeks (to remind him of the context... it is pre congressional votes - public sentiment was about split on a war - IF done with the UN - and against (under 30% supported it) when asked if they would support a war without UN participation. If one can find polling data from the time that breaks down the support when asked a) go to war (with UN) AND b) go to war without UN - it is pretty convincing that the public wasn't behind this.

[LunaC]

25. Quotes, rebuttals, and links, oh my!

The following is an excerpt from "The Stealth Coup", a 20-page. fully-referenced piece that documents the neocon's takeover of our Administration and country. It includes tidbits on BBV, Cheney's energy task force, 911 MIHOP, shadow intelligence agencies, U.S. use of WMD's, policy sleight-of-hand maneuverings, psychological brainwashing of the general public and the characteristics of fascism (and we're experiencing ALL of them!) It connects all the dots and dirty dealings of BushCo for those who are unwilling or unable to put the pieces together for themselves. Contact [e-mail] for the full text and feel free to pass it along!

Meanwhile, let's enlighten your dear bro.....


"911, Al-Qaeda and Iraq"

Donald Rumsfeld (Secretary of Defense) "If you're asking, are there al Qaeda in Iraq, the answer is yes, there are. It's a fact, yes."

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/Iraqpolitics020926.html

Vince Cannistraro (Former head of the CIA's counterterrorism office): "Is there any confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism? No."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59403-2002Sep9¬Found=true

Brent Scowcroft (Foreign Policy Advisor): “There is scant evidence to tie Saddam to terrorist organizations, and even less to the Sept. 11
attacks. Indeed Saddam's goals have little in common with the terrorists who threaten us."

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110002133

=========
George W. Bush"You can't distinguish between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein when you talk about the war on terror....The regime has
long-standing and continuing ties to terrorist organizations and there are al-Qaeda terrorists inside Iraq."

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/11/01/bushiraq021101

Ivan Eland (Director of Defense Studies at the Cato Institute): "The CIA is skeptical of ties between Al-Qaeda and Iraq -- justifiably so. The
CIA run around trying to corroborate this stuff, and it hasn't had too much luck. And the ties that they have claimed seem very thin
and on closer inspection don't seem to go anywhere.”

http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2002/10/29102002161249.asp

==================

"Saddam is Evil"

Colin Powell (Secretary of State): "This despotic regime .....gassed its own people.....".

http://www.house.gov/international_relations/107/81814.pdf

"Both Iran and Iraq used chemical weapons against each other during their war. At the termination of the Iran-Iraq war, professors
Stephen Pelletiere and Leif Rosenberger, and Lt Colonel Douglas Johnson of the US Army War College (USAWC) undertook a study of
the use of chemical weapons by Iran and Iraq in order to better understand battlefield chemical warfare. They concluded that it was
Iran and not Iraq that killed the Kurds."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=22569589

=================

"Weapons of Mass Destruction"

George W. Bush:

- "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program."

- “Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past.”

- Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich
uranium for nuclear weapons.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

Mohammed ElBaradei (International Atomic Energy Agency Director): "We have to date found no evidence that Iraq has revived its nuclear weapon program since the elimination of the program in the 1990s.”

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/iraq_01-27-03.html

Mohammed ElBaradei (International Atomic Energy Agency Director): “First, we have been inspected all of those buildings and facilities that were identified through satellite imagery as having been modified or constructed over the past four years. The IAEA inspectors have been able to gain ready access and to clarify the nature of the activities currently being conducted in these facilities. No prohibited nuclear activities have been identified during these inspections.”

http://www.usembassy.it/file2003_01/alia/a3012703.htm

Mohammed ElBaradei (International Atomic Energy Agency Director“A particular issue of focus has been the attempted procurement by Iraq of high-strength aluminum tubes, and the question of whether these tubes, if acquired, could be used for the manufacture of nuclear centrifuge. Iraqi authorities have indicated that their unsuccessful attempts to procure the aluminum tubes related to a program to reverse-engineer conventional rockets. To verify this information, the IAEA inspectors have inspected the relevant rocket production and storage sites, taken tube samples, interviewed relevant Iraqi personnel, and reviewed procurement contracts and related documents. From our analysis to date, it appears that the aluminum tubes would be consistent with the purposes stated by Iraq and, unless modified, would not be suitable for manufacturing centrifuges.”

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/iraq/elbaradei_report.html

========

And let's not forget the infamous "16 words" the State of the Union address where the dangers of Saddam as the ultimate evil of terrorists was hammered even further into the nation's psyche. Conspicuously missing from the national speech was any mention that the joint congressional investigation of 911 had been completed and there really wasn't any evidence linking Saddam to the attacks or Al-Qaeda.

"The administration sold the connection (between Iraq and al-Qaida) to scare the pants
off the American people and justify the war....What you've seen here is the manipulation
of intelligence for political ends."

"The reason this report was delayed for so long -- deliberately opposed at first, then
slow-walked after it was created -- is that the administration wanted to get the war in
Iraq in and over ... before (it) came out.

"Had this report come out in January like it should have done, we would have known
these things before the war in Iraq, which would not have suited the administration

Former Sen. Max Cleland who helped produce the 911 report

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030723-064812-9491r

[godhelpus]

27. Thanks to all

[ElsewheresDaughter]

28. send him Michael Moore's book "Dude, Where's My Country"

and "All The Shahs Men' by Kinsley
and vidio "Uncovered" by MoveOn.org