Parents: White Teacher Should Not Teach Black History

[bluestateguy]

I think this is political correctness gone mad. It would be like saying that a non-white teacher should not be allowed to teach European history.

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2360897/detail.html

OBERLIN, Ohio, Updated 1:33 p.m. EDT July 28, 2003 -- A group of parents said they will fight a possible decision to allow a white teacher to lead classes in black history at Oberlin High School.

Using a white teacher at Oberlin High School would send the wrong message to black students, said A.G. Miller, an associate professor of American and African religious history at Oberlin College.


"The message is that we are not concerned about the importance of your historical background ... that that is less important than a schedule conflict," said Miller, whose three children graduated from Oberlin High School.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I will be very dramatic here

DOWN WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS... there is a reason for that.

There are many subjects taht cannot be tahght any more
because of it... (The Red Badge of Courage and Huck
Finn are not allowed in school as well as Aesop because of
it)... we need a return to Classical Education which means...
it and the efforts of the right to police History must be
scrapped.

Sorry I do feel very strongly about it and blame partly
our problems right now on it, since the kids are NOT learning
how to think critically.

[Mairead]

33. There's a difference here

History is not merely --or shouldn't be, at least-- a recital of dry facts divorced from context. Would you trust a rabid right-winger to teach civics? I wouldn't!

Now, do I think that no non-Black person can teach Black history? No, but I think the burden should be on the administration or the teacher to prove that s/he can be accepted as legitimate.

[okieinpain]

57. there you go, my kid had a teacher who told her that the egytians

where not black, they were egyptians. now I understand the concept that whites want to teach that egyptians are not africans, but it's hard for a 5th grader to understand that a black person in egypt is not the same as a black person in southern africa. they might have dark skin, but they are not the same (according to whites, and arabs).

this is where blacks mistrust of whites comes from in america. one drop of black blood and your black. in africa, one drop of white blood and your white.

[Mairead]

63. "one drop of x blood and you're x"

Amazing, isn't it.

[WoodrowFan]

70. he was half right

Upper (which is to say southern) Egyptians were black, lower (ie northern) Egyptians were not, they were "Arabic" (to use a modern term). Some Egyptians were black, some were not Cleopatria was most definately NOT, she was of Greek descent. But then, she wasn't that notable a ruler, there were far better Pharohs and I am sure some were black.

[Bandit]

2. This is one case in which we agree

A teacher is a teacher no matter their color. IMHO If they are knowlegable in the subject matter it should not matter.

[pnb]

3. What a ridicululous group of parents?

Why is no one calling these people racist?

[ShaneGR]

4. Hmmmm.....

Didn't realize there were many blacks in Oberlin. In fact, I'm from Ohio, where the hell is Oberlin at again?

[TheBigGuy]

15. Oberlin...near Lorain and Elyria

and very unlike those rustbelt citys as its a very liberal college town.

[ShaneGR]

27. Hmmmm.... Cleveland is rustbelt, Cleveland is liberal

Seriously, Dems run the show up here man. Couldn't remember where Oberlin was, now I do. Not exactly a hot-bed of african american involvement.

[Drifter]

5. I'm not Black ....

but there's a whole lotta times I wish I wasn't white - Frank Zappa

Cheers
Drifter

[FlashHarry]

13. Trouble Every Day.

How true.

[bearfartinthewoods]

6. this is freakin nuts.........n/t

[IDUDOYOU]

7. As Confucius said

"There is no discrimination in teaching."

[Generic Other]

8. The parents should be invited to participate in the class

An excellent opportunity for community building.

[BiggJawn]

9. Given that (ir)rationale...

French could only be taught by a native of France, History couldn't be taught at all because where are yoiu gonna find a teach who had the Black Death "experience" in order to teach the Middle Ages, "Today, Students, we were going to learn how to make a Seafood Etouffe, but the BoE's PC watcher has informed me that since I'm not a Coon Ass, we can't play with Cajun cooking..."


And the beat goes on.....

"Is our Chidren Learning?"

Fuck, No.....

Oh, the last line was RICH!!!

"How do you work through that when the person teaching it is the same type of person who did the enslaving?"

Ummmm.....The way I learned it (from a White Guy, so it may be Wrong.) was that Africans who lived near the port cities would go into the interior on raiding parties, then sell the people they took to the white slave ship captains. I seem to recall that Tripoli was a big slave port, and the market was run by Lybians.

[greenwow]

10. Sigh

> French could only be taught by a native of France,...

If you can find one qualified locally, then yes French should always be taught by a native. The children will get a much better education. My French teacher was from Paris, and that made our class much more interesting and worthwhile.

> The way I learned it...

Nice whitey revisionist history: blaming blacks for slavery. How about actually studing history before spouting-off racist comments like that?

If this teacher isn't qualified to teach this subject, why in the hell does the school want her to teach it? Bunch of idiots in the school administration.

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. Bunch of idiots

But it's the parents who say whites can't teach black history. And no, being a native does not necessarily qualify you MORE to teach French than a non-native. Each has a different perspective that could be valuable.

[Karenina]

18. OBVIOUSLY

A comment from a mono-lingual. :eyes:

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. Language

I encounterred someone who tried to teach Spanish, but couldn't speak English well enough to communicate. Both English AND American idiom are necessary for an effective language class.

[Karenina]

25. My comment stands.

n/t

[Character Assassin]

26. As a multi-lingual, I can't see that as particularly accurate

Or actually even relevant to teaching.

Perhaps an available native speaker has poor English skills.
Perhaps they have never taught anything at all.
Perhaps they have taught something, but are unfamiliar with teaching language.
Perhaps they are not particularly adept in the 'high' form of their native language.

[Yupster]

56. And of course, the native speaker

could just be a real crappy teacher.

And by the way, since when has a school board ever insisted that any teacher be qualified in the subject they were teaching.

I taught for nine years in the local public school system, and for the whole time at least half of my history department didn't have a %$#%^ clue what they were talking about. Between the fotball coaches (and not all were worthless, but honestly most were), and the teachers who were reassigned because they couldn't teach english or math, we usually had more than 50 % of our teachers who really were unqualified to teach the history classes they were teaching.

Their color was the least of the problems that the parents should have been worrying about.

[Muddleoftheroad]

58. Amen

Well said.

[Blue_Chill]

62. Excuse me?

I speak English and Spanish and allow me to assure you that the single most important factor is a teachers ability to reach the students. Birth place has nothing to do with that at all.

[cap]

71. no language teaching needs two skills:

fluency in the language and teaching ability.

You won't get the accent or the ear for the language without the native speaker. I had heaps of trouble in France trying to communicate with the native French at the beginning of my stay there. I understood my American teacher just fine in my high school class: she spoke French with an American accent and spoke slowly.

Very few people really ever get rid of their accent -- most of the people who do learned their second language in country as a child.

A good non-native teacher will get you through the grammar and the vocabulary up to a certain level but no further.

Someone who is a native speaker but not a good teacher will not get the lesson across to you. You can train a native speaker to be a teacher easier than training a non-native teacher to be completely fluent (accentless, up on current idioms and slang).

[Blue_Chill]

73. No your teacher will not rid you of your american accent

I am hispanic, I know what Americans sound like when they speak Spanish. I don't care who teaches them.

[WoodrowFan]

72. He's right

Africans DID particpate in the slave trade in Africa. That doesn't excuse the white salemen in the ports, or the white shipowners, or the white customers back in this hemisphere. Whites, blacks, Arabs, Jews, Christians, non-of-the-above, they ALL participated to some degree.

[Yupster]

55. Medievel history

should only be taught by Middle Aged people.

[tom_paine]

11. A grain of truth for the Busheviks to wrap their filthy lies around

:puke: :puke:

Of course, like any battered wife (which is what the 2/3rds of this nation who aren't Busheviks really are, metaphorically speaking, we know that Drunken Brownshirt Husband is going to belt us no matter what we do.

The ONLY answer is...FIGHT BACK.

[jiacinto]

14. I disagree with this

nt

[FlashHarry]

16. What's next? Only English can teach English Literature?

That's the logical next step. Now, let's see of only Arabs can teach algebra...

[Character Assassin]

17. Make that Indians, actually

As that's where the Arabs learned it....

[FlashHarry]

28. True.

I guess I was referring to its etymological roots. :)

[bpilgrim]

19. i would prefer to learn indian history from an indian...

but i suppose in a public school it is all supposed to be standarized and could to be taught by a robot or video even :shrug:

each 1 teach 1

peace

[whoYaCallinAlib]

21. What's next . . . will Spanish teachers have to be Spanish?

This PC shit is getting out of hand. Let's use good common sense. I'm more concerned about the QUALITY of the teacher than I am about ethnicity. I don't care what the subject is. Find a GOOD teacher to teach black history.

[Dob Bole]

22. More job losses for Historians....

Between Bush's rantings about the evils of revisionist historians and these parents who don't want me to teach African history, there is a higher likelihood that I won't have a job when I get out of school.

[oldcoot]

44. This debate is nothing new

The debate over whether or not Anglo Americans can teach Latino, African American, Native American, or Asian American history is not new. Some universities will not hire whites to teach certain classes. They also will not hire men to teach women's history. If you are white and your advisor suggested that you specialize in African or African American history, you need a new advisor.

I have to admit that I have mixed feelings on this subject. I do not feel that belonging to a certain race, ethnic group, or sex qualifies one to teach a course on that subject nor does it guarantee that individual will be sympathetic to the subject matter. For example, imagine taking a women's history course from Ann Coulter or Phyllis Schlafly.

Yet I also am concerned about the lack of diversity in the history field. Go to almost any history conference in the United States and you will notice that almost everyone in the room is white. Many of these same individuals also came from upper-class and upper-middle class backgrounds. Universities and colleges need to attract more students from diverse ethnic backgrounds and from different social classes to the field of history.

[BonjourUSA]

23. A question : Why Black History exists ?

It is not the USA History ? Simply ?

[Character Assassin]

24. It's a legitimate subset of the greater whole

[BonjourUSA]

29. "Legitimate subset", ok… but

Isn't the organization of your "social life" in communities a danger for the cohesion of your country? Above all, if these communities claim more and more power, and if they claim the rights to be more and more different.

[Mairead]

31. The problem is that, even yet, history as it is taught

in the US is the history only of privileged White males. Women, Black people, aboriginal people...all were (and still are) left out. That is why Prof. Zinn's People's History of the United States is considered so radical--it actually talks about historical events from the perspective of working people.

[TheBigGuy]

34. Zinn has a bit of a socialist bias..but...you are correct...

US history has alot going on in it. The storys of the various ethnic, racial, and religous communitys, as well as economic institutions, are often negleted, except when you get to the level of state and urban history, where these storys play a very big role.

The discovery of these peoples historys, the history of everyday life, has been one of the big explorations of US historiography of the past 30 years.

[bpilgrim]

36. finally

;-)

peace

[Character Assassin]

37. "A bit"? It's a little stronger than that.

[bpilgrim]

40. a bias for the people is certainly refreshing, interesting and informative

you must admit

:hi:

peace

[Character Assassin]

43. I found his work interesting, although the subject was already familar

However, refreshing is not how I would label it.

Bias is bias, however wrapped up in itself it might be.

[bpilgrim]

48. of course it was...

bias is unavoidable, at least i have noticed it in everything i have read.

maybe you could make a recommendation :hi:

peace

[Character Assassin]

50. No general history books, per se, but....

I'd recommend:

Modern Times and A History of the American People, both by Paul Johnson.

The Company: A Short History of a Revolutionary Idea, John Micklethwait, Adrian Wooldridge

American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, September 11, 1857
by Sally Denton

Families of Fortune: Life in the Gilded Age
by Alexis Gregory & John Kenneth Galbraith

Victorian America : Transformations in Everyday Life, 1876-1915
by Thomas J. Schlereth

And that's just for starters....

[sexybomber]

66. everything is biased. you can't get around that. (n't)

[sexybomber]

65. My high school used "People's History"

and my history teacher (who was white) made it a point to give us a perspective of history that included women, blacks, native americans, etc., etc., so that proves the original argument wrong...

[TheBigGuy]

32. well..not really.

What you are describing hasnt really been a problem. There is interaction withing communitys of various sorts, and between communitys too.

There are geographically distinct ethnolinguistic communitys like the French speaking "cajuns" in LA, and the traditional Spanish speaking populations in New Mexico. There also used to be a widespread German speaking (biligual, actually) community in the USA during the 19th and early 20th century...the last remnants of this are the old order Amish subcommunity.

Yet all these communitys did exist within the larger framework of the USA and also did indentify as Americans as well as members of their respective communitys. This type of diversity and how it is managed through poltiical, economic, and social actions has been one of the underlying themes of US history

[Tansy_Gold]

35. subsets vs communities

a couple of comments, and I preface them with the admission that I'm not sure I understand some of the previous short posts.

1. Communities are much more fluid than even a generation ago. School, work, church, politics, even internet communities allow us to move into and out of various subsets multiple times a day.

2. Minority experience -- minority meaning "not in power" -- often tends to generate defensiveness and possessiveness. I'm not saying it's correct, but it happens.

3. Members of minority/ "not in power" groups can be worst bigots of all and worst possible teachers. Imagine an African American teacher of African American history who argues against affirmative action, against the civil rights struggle, and encourages only assimilation, assimilation, assimilation. Or Mexican American teacher who castigates students who still speak Spanish or speak English with an accent. Or a Jewish teacher who insists everyone exchange Christmas gifts.

4. Not everyone of the appropriate minority is a good teacher of that subject. One of my professors of Spanish was from Puerto Rico and spoke almost no English. Her dialect was to Spanish as really strong Brooklynese (no offense to Brooklyners!) or Cockney is to English. Those of us in the class who were more fluent usually had to translate, not into English but into intelligible Spanish.

I had a women's studies professor who was so pro-woman and anti-male she embarrassed a lot of us. And at the same time, I had a male sociology professor who was more feminist than many of his female colleagues.

I can understand members of a non-power group wanting one of their own to teach "their" subject; but I also think a really good teacher of any group can teach, well, anything.

[bpilgrim]

30. their story was left untold till then

besides it is quite different than white history aka american history

peace

[NashVegas]

38. I Was Wondering that, Myself

Why not have an African history course, instead? I never had a White History class in HS, but I did have US history and European history.

[bpilgrim]

42. i appreciate the focus

myself

peace

[greenwow]

45. You have...

> I never had a White History class in HS, but I did have US history and European history.

If you've had US and/or European history, then you have had a white history class. That's all US schools teach is white history.

[NashVegas]

53. You Miss 1/2 the Point

Or did your US history classes not go into slavery, the Underground Railroad, the Civil war, Montgomery, 1954, King, et al?

By not teaching African history, our schools give the impression that continent is not nor never has been relevent to the US. Africa forever remains 'the dark continent.' A semester - or at least a month as part of a broader course - is not untoward.

BTW - I'm curious: how many high schools have Womens' history classes that cover a whole semester, or full school year, even?

I went to an extremely white High School, and also noticed that our only study of the Asian continent was how it pertained to white history and (mostly) the 20th century; the Boxer rebellion, Mao, Ghandi, etc. Meanwhile, our Euro history class went all the way back to Magna Carta.

This ignoring of pre-20th century non-white historical culture only reinforces the notion of white supremacy. Or am I totally mistaken, and somewhere out there in San Francisco, a teacher is planning a curriculum that includes the Qin dynasty?

[noiretextatique]

39. nice editing...did anyone read the goddamn article?

it mentions the black teacher had been teaching the subject for seven years...it didn't mention a thing about the other teacher, or his/her qualifications. seems like bait, to me.

[bpilgrim]

41. If two teachers are equally qualified, Williams gives the edge to the blac

<snip>

Michael Williams, interim director of Cleveland State University's black studies program, said schools should choose a black teacher if that person is most qualified, not just because the teacher happens to be black.

If two teachers are equally qualified, Williams gives the edge to the black teacher.

"That person still has the advantage of the culture," said Williams, who is black. "They understand the nuances of the culture."

</>

i agree

peace

[noiretextatique]

46. i agree...somewhat

however, i do find it interesting how this "debate" was framed, considering there was no mention of the other teacher's qualifications. just look at the question posed in the link...seems like a leap to me.

i actually dropped the black history class in high school. i think that had everything to do with the teacher, who happened to be a white woman, and not necessarily because she was white. it was HER.

in her other job as a guidance counselor, she routinely steered black students towards jr. colleges and state colleges...in her view, we'd be happier there than in private colleges. and THIS is way i dropped her class...i didn't think SHE was qualified to teach it, given her own prejudices...they 'colored' her instruction, so to speak.

i had a black professor in college...and the class was great. i do think white teachers can and should teach black history, if they are qualified to do so. i can understand why the parents would want to keep this teacher...given her experience teaching the class.

as to cultural nuances, i am not sure i agree completely with the quote. i don't know that just being black necessarily automatically means one has a better undertanding of black cultural nuances than every white person.

[bpilgrim]

47. true

"as to cultural nuances, i am not sure i agree completely with the quote. i don't know that just being black necessarily automatically means one has a better undertanding of black cultural nuances than every white person."

but it certainly increases the odds ;-)

i also know what you mean though about the tone of this thread, it truely is scary to me when i see how we - white america - are so hyper sensitive we are STILL on race, especially with black americans, or any other for that matter.

it is partly to do to with our guilt i suspect, we can accept it and move on, though not past it, but to the next level of dealing with our multi-racial society, which i am the MOST PROUD of as an american though ashamed by how we deal with it far too often but i still hold out hope.

i am one of the luckiest americans alive because i grew up and lived with many races in the varied boys homes etc i was raised in and i learned at an early age that people are people and the different cultural behavious when present only added to the experiance.

then when i spent 5 years in japan i learned even more, every white man should spend a year there.

anyways, good to see you, especially keeping things in perspective on these important issues. :hi:

peace

[noiretextatique]

51. black racism as the new, improved, worse racism

is a theme that has taken root. it's care and nurturance has been fostered by the usual suspects on the right of the political spectrum. i actually think resentment is a stronger motivator than guilt, personally.
it's nice to see you too...and i appreciate your comments...hell i appreciate YOU :D
and...you are right about the odds :thumbsup:

[robcon]

49. This is scary racism.

Prejudging someone by his/her race is illegal, immoral and should be forbidden in the Oberlin school system.

[Mairead]

52. Who says there was prejudgement (apart from yours, possibly)?

[pnb]

74. Where was prejudgement?

"When you talk about slavery, students need to understand it is not our fault," she said. "Our ancestors did nothing wrong to be enslaved."

You don't think its prejudgment to assume that a white person could not get this point across?

"How do you work through that when the person teaching it is the same type of person who did the enslaving?"

How is NOT prejudging someone to assume that a person is the "same type of person who did the enslaving" just because they are white. That is defining a person merely by their skin color then making a conclusion based on that and that indeed is prejudging them.

[nayt]

54. wtf

"How do you work through that when the person teaching it is the same type of person who did the enslaving?"

this statement, at least the way it is worded, is extremely offensive.

[are_we_united_yet]

59. I think anyone qualified

should be able to teach the subject.

[noiretextatique]

60. this article never mentions if the white teacher is qualified

to teach the course, though many have assumed s/he is.
however, the article did mention this:

NewsChannel5 reported that a scheduling conflict could cause the district to reassign the black teacher who has taught the course for seven years.

aside from that piece of information about the qualifications of the black teacher, all i know about the proposed white teacher is that s/he is white.

that is the focus of this article...the reaction of the parents to a white teacher, whose qualifications are unknown (at least per the article) vs. the black teacher who has taught the course for seven years.

this all gets reduced to the poll question on the site: "should white teachers be allowed to teach black history?"

a more appropriate question in my view is: "should a white teacher automatically be assumed to be qualified to teach black history, even when his/her qualifications to do so are unknown?"

[Karenina]

61. A textbook example of "white power"

"this all gets reduced to the poll question on the site: "should white teachers be allowed to teach black history?"

Control of the perception ALWAYS trumps the presentation of facts.

[pnb]

69. Unknown to us maybe

But just because its not mentioned in the article does not mean its not known by the people involved in this.

[noiretextatique]

75. unknown per the poll question

and definitely unknown to all the people opining in this thread...that's my point!!!!!

whether the white teacher's qualifications are known to those involved is a question left unanswered by this article. apparently, it's irrelevant to the POINT of the article, since it was never mentioned.

the point is...the article is designed to elicit the a certain response.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

77. noiretblu...

It does seem to me that you are one of the few posters on this thread who has actually read the article. I agree with what you suggest in post #39 that this article is indeed "bait," but it saddens me that so few posters on this thread have picked up on that. Why are people so easily sucked into these misdirects on race when the facts clearly point to something else going on? It must be that a provocative headline and an irrelevant poll question mean more to people than what is actually stated in the article. I would have expected more from most DUers (although from some posters on this thread it's *exactly* what I would have expected).

[noiretextatique]

78. thank you, chimpy

love your moniker, btw LOL :D

maybe the white teacher is qualified, but no where in that article does it say s/he is as or more qualified than the black teacher who taught the course for seven years. talk about PC gone mad!!!!

the article focused on the opinions by some parents, and on the opinion by a professor at a universtity...and mentioned nothing about the proposed teacher, except his/her race.

the poll question is just absurd...who on earth would say no, given what was presented in the article? i didn't bother to respond, but DUH!!!!

i know some of the black parents want a black teacher, and i know WHY. and they seem to want the black teacher who has been teaching the course for seven years.

i do not know why people choose to simply react, but i have come to expect very little on these matters. however, i do appreciate that you noticed what i did.

[Blue_Chill]

64. Racism

That's all this is. If no one says it the real message you are sending these kids is "it's ok to be racist against whites"

Great.

[Az]

67. What message?

That knowledge is dependent on a person's race?

[Skittles]

68. I had a white high school teacher who taught black studies

she had lived in Africa for over twenty years. It was a great class. The notion that only blacks can teach black history is silly and racist.

[Loonman]

76. Ludicrous

Since when did PC substitute for objectivity?