Begala is permanently on my ignore list.

[Cheswick2.0]

I made the mistake of watching crossfire and he attacked Gore for his "clumsy" endorsement and asked why Gore thought Lieberman was okay in 2000 but not now.

Does this "democrat" care if he is hurting the guy who right now is the front runner? Why can't he be diplomatic about all the candidates? Is he carrying DLC water regardless of the consequences? I just don't get it. I am not in the Dean camp but these DLC attack dogs are going to put me there.

They made a big point about how Lieberman was getting all this support because people felt he had been mistreated. He apparently raked in 250k in the next few days. Well hello, Dean raked in twice that did he not, because of the Gore endorsement?

Earlier in the show Rangle said Gore going to Harlem was disrespectful to Clinton. Does Clinton own Harlem now? Are we really going to have a civil war in the party? It sure seems that way to me.

[ulysses]

1. "Are we really going to have a civil war in the party?"

Seems that way, yes.

[liberalhistorian]

7. How disgusting.

And just when we need to pull together and focus like a laser beam on the goal of getting the Bushistas the hell out of the WH!

And where was all this criticism when LIEBERMAN was the one fucking Gore over during the election fiasco, when he said that Shrub was really the winner and it was time for Gore to concede BEFORE any recount, or when LIEBERMAN was cutting down fellow Dems and the other candidates, (which seems to be all the time now), or when he was cozying up to Shrub to pass the goddamned faith-based initiative and the IWR and other legislation?

[Raenelle]

23. Disgusting is the exact appropriate word

Too many times I've squirmed while Begala prefaced his remarks with comments about Bush being an honorable person, with integrity--Ugh, Ick, Puke. Fuck him. Trashing both the front-runner, the likely nominee, and the 2000 President elect, and party leader--Gore was the only one speaking out against Bush's policies a year or so ago. This is kind of the last straw for me with Begala.

Paul, is you sold out enough yet?

[liberalhistorian]

33. OMFG, I had no idea at all

that Begala had gone that far and is that bad! What a tremendous disappointment. I really fear for us all now.

[Cheswick2.0]

38. I haven't watched the show more than 3 times in over a year

I don't know what made me watch it tonight. The format is garbage. It's nothing but a carfully scripted faked fight. The right and left are both happy and everyone feels they are being represented. GAG....
It wouldn't even be so bad if Begala and Carville weren't such centrist stooges.

[Vadem]

46. Hear, hear, Liberalhistorian! Agree totally with you and....

I was totally pissed when Lieberman (and Ed Rendell, head of DNC at the time), both urged Al to concede, even before the USSC notorious decision. As you can tell, I'm still pissed off at those traitors!

[Walt Starr]

19. If that's where it's heading, them I'm out of it

Seriously, if the ABD crowd in the Democratic Party want to declare civil war just because Dean can get more funds than they can and has become the front runner, fuck 'em.

I am seriously watching these predictions of civil war closely. Should it look like that's where we are heading, I'm pulling up stakes and finding another country because obviously egos in the Democratic party are too big to give a shit about dumping Dumbass* in the white house.

[Kanola]

51. Walt, the don't like it because Dean is empowering thousands

of supporters. The aren't the ones able to call the shots for once, the people are. Eloriel posted a great article about Dean. I would encourage any Dean supporter to read it because it makes sense what is going on with the Dean campaign.

[joefree1]

2. Paul and the Party Elite are scared of Dean/Gore

And Gore will be with Clinton on Sunday.

"If you have no enemies, it is a sign fortune has forgot you."
- Thomas Fuller (1608 - 1661)

[onecitizen]

9. and "Gore will be with Clinton on Sunday.".......

:shrug:

[joefree1]

15. "Gore going to Harlem was disrespectful to Clinton"

In the original post. Ahem. :think:

[Cheswick2.0]

37. and the next night on Crossfire begala will talk about how bad

Gore's eulogy was. What a tool paulie is.

[bookman]

3. The trouble with Dems is....

..the say what they're thinking. The Repugs just say what they think people want to hear.

[Armstead]

4. Rangle disappoints

Seems like he could have endorsed Clark without dissing Dean.

Begala's outrage over the way poor Joe was treated sounds like he's not exactly unbiased. Why he has to amplify the Republican spin is beyond me.

[Cheswick2.0]

12. you are telling me

I truly wanted to be able to say I was okay with any of the candidates and I truly will fight for whoever gets the nomination, God forbid even Joe Lieberman. But if we are drawing up sides I am on the side of Gore and Dean. If that puts me at odds with the rest of them and the BigDog too, so be it.

[SEAburb]

24. give me a break. Like going into Rangel's district to annouce

the Gore endorsement isn't a slap in the face to Rangel. The whole Harlem show was cheap shot at Clinton and Clark. Rangel is smart enough to know what the side show was about.

[tameszu]

49. Gore earned it by not telling Rangel he was coming

Seems like Gore could've endorsed Gore in Harlem without dissing Rangel. All he had to do was call him up.

I was at the Rangel endorsement, by the way--it was pretty funny how there were dozens of actual people from Harlem and Harlem elected officials. Gore and Dean managed to dig up, what, one city counsellor?

Also, Begala was right. The way in which Gore endorsed Dean was totally wrong. He could have at least tried even marginally to take the edge off of his gross and reckless breech of a very sensible tradition of non-endorsement by Ps and VPs by NOT urging all of the other candidates to drop out and unite behind the candidate Gore annointed as the "strongest."

[Cheswick2.0]

52. why are you getting those talking points?

Gore never said anyone should drop out. I watched it, I read it, I know that's a false impression you have there.
And if Rangel the whiner has a problem he should keep it private. He is a DLC stooge I knew it last year when he rudely went public saying
Gore shouldn't run. Screw Charlie

[onecitizen]

5. No he doesn't...........

after watching one or two episodes of K Street, I lost respect for Carville and Begala. It's all about them, not the party really. I don't watch Crossfire anymore either.

[TrueAmerican]

6. Why do you say he is the front runner like

people are suppose to take it easy on him because of that? When Dean was the "outsider" he didn't stop attacking the front runners.

Dean hasn't won anything yet. Let's let the vote get counted before we declare a winner.

[Cheswick2.0]

20. you miss the point altogether

If Clark was the front runner it would be no different. All the candidates should be well spoken of by supposed democrats in the media or those speaking to the media. If he gets the nomination this shit will come home to roost.

And please stop pretending anyone said the people shouldn't decidde for themselves. I have been leaning Clark for two weeks but you all have a broken recording of a lie going here. Gore never said it and I am sick of being told he did.

PS.. please ask the Dean supporters if I didn't blast Dean many times for attacking other democrats.

[Myra]

8. Rangle actually said that? Huh?

Does anyone have a full quote, transcript?
That just sounds goofy.
I wish every candidate would announce endorsements in Harlem,
and then actually walk around the area and talk to people,
and then actually follow up on what they hear.

Personally.

[Bombtrack]

10. If you're "not in the Dean camp" you should admit Dean is a DLC dem

and you should also not follow the Deanie mantra that critism of Dean makes you a "quote unquote" democrat.

[ulysses]

22. how about

we not tell people what they should do? Tends to be a real turnoff, y'know.

Dean was obviously DLC as governor. Is he now? Unless one believes the conspiracy theories, the attacks from Al From and His Merry Band would seem to argue that, although Dean is (equally as obviously) not Kucinich, he's at least made significant strides away from the DLC camp.

[Myra]

36. Second that emotion that telling people what to do and think is a turnoff.

Always makes me wanna do the opposite.
Just bad psychology.
Unless you want us to do the opposite of course.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pinto]

11. the mass media frenzy (from both sides) following the Gore endorsement has

consistently discovered some new way of saying Clinton. Last I looked, Gore endorsed Dean. This standard of "journalism" doesn't move anyone's agenda forward except that of media as self-gratifying entertainment.

[Cheswick2.0]

39. you are correct

Journalism is dying in this country.
I remmember when I saw the movie Broadcast News. I thought then, "well that could never happen, news wont turn into faked entertainment". Jeez was I wrong.

[Cheswick2.0]

40. you are correct

Journalism is dying in this country.
I remember when I saw the movie Broadcast News. I thought then, "well that could never happen, news wont turn into faked entertainment". Jeez was I wrong.

[Bread and Circus]

13. Why do we all have to bow down and kiss Dean's ass?

Just because he has been annointed by the media as the "front runner".

When he wins the nomination, we should all shut up and fall in line.
Until then, Dean is not above criticism.

Are the Deanies worried we might take too close of a look?

[TrueAmerican]

17. shhhh

Don't let the primary get in the way of "the selection"

[Cheswick2.0]

27. delete

[Cheswick2.0]

28. don't even try that on me

snarky comments don't make you clever.

[Cheswick2.0]

26. I have been leaning Clark for weeks

You might want to take note of that. And I am not telling you what to do. I am talking about people in the pulbic eye. Are you paul begala?

[Cocoa]

14. all the Liberman stuff is nonsense

who cares about that, except for the insiders?

But the DLC thing is a red herring. I think there are conflicts in the party, factions, whatever. But it's not the DLC vs. the outsiders, if it were, then Gore and Dean wouldn't be with the outsiders. They're not outsiders, folks. I love em but they're not outsiders.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. they are now cocoa

Gore left the DLC a long time ago...shortly after 2000

[SEAburb]

16. I guess you didn't see Paul the day Gore made the endorsement

Paul said Gore's comment asking people to stop attacking Dean was BS. He said that Tsongus was the front runner at this time in '91 and "they ripped Tsongus' head off and spit down his neck". Paul believes the winner is the front runner.

[Cheswick2.0]

30. I don't give a damn what begala says happened in 1991

I give a damn what is happening now.

[stevedeshazer]

35. I agree (hell freezes over)

What is happening now is what matters. I'm really weary of all the contrived analogies to the past. Today is today.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

18. Begala showed me today that he's an idiot.

He put the ol' rightwing sympathy spin on the Lieberman/Gore matter. Begala sounds like a closet Lieberman supporter in some ways.

And then he did his best to praise James A Baker in every way possible.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. Really, what's up with that?

Now he love James Baker too.

[mlawson]

44. He is just one more unreliable so-called liberal pundit.

How many do we already have??? Jeees...

[killbotfactory]

21. Lieberman will whine and bitch his way to victory!

Go Joe!

[cally]

31. Begala has always concerned me

He worked for Zell Miller and used to refer to the Chimp as 'my friend'. I generally like him, but he is on the conservative side of the Dems it seems. I think many of the centrist Dems really disliked Gore and turned on him when he ran. Very few came out and protected him during the thwarted re-count. I don't understand it. :shrug:

[Cheswick2.0]

34. Hi Cally

I agree, they seemed fine with Gore loss.
I am glad you showed up on this thread with your Clark avatar and a voice of reason too.

[cally]

41. Hi Cheswick

Thanks. But I am not always reasonable. I'm just trying to practice what I promoted the other night. I think we all need to tone it down. I like Dean and all the candidates. I just think Clark is best and someone that I get excited about.

[joanski01]

42. I still think that something

happened between Al Gore and Paul Begala. As some of you will remember, Paul took some time off from Equal Time to rehearse debates with Al Gore. When Paul came back, he seemed to have a different opinion of Gore. Apparently, whatever he saw and heard during those debate practices didn't set too well with Paul. And also, as you know, the media concluded that Gore lost the debates. ???????

[Cheswick2.0]

47. the media did conclude that

and of course they were wrong as we know. But if begala was supposed to be helping Gore and he didn't like how it turned out it is probably because he was trying to get Gore to go all DLC and Gore refused. That was during the time Gore was coming trying to go his own way.
Gore has eluded several times to the fact that he felt he was pressure to run someone elses campaign.

[ClintonTyree]

43. Don't forget

Begala was a key element of the Clinton administration. They want Hillary in 2008. There is no way they want Dean or probably any other Democrat to win in 2004. This is all being choreographed for Hillary in 2008, mark my words. The "civil war" in the Democratic Party has already begun.

[LandOLincoln]

50. Didn't I hear that Begala was snarky...

with Wes Clark when he was on Crossfire last Tuesday? Anyone see that? How did Clark handle it? (Surely with humor and class, but can anyone give me some specifics?)

[David Zephyr]

45. Cheswick, Join the Club.

He's a corporate pimp.

[Cheswick2.0]

48. he certainly is

Hi David. :hi:

[TexasSissy]

53. Begala is not up on the issues, anymore, now that he is...

a TV face. He seems ill informed at times, ignorant of history, and not in tune with average folks. He's just a talking TV face, now, IMO. A Fox News version of a Democrat.