Teachers Union Assignment

[JailBush]

Too many people are ignorant of the fact that the National Eduction Association is as corrupt as Enron. They don't realize what a terrible toll it takes on teachers, parents and children.

Many people dispute my claims, but their arguments are irrelevant when one considers how little most people know about teachers unions. Don't believe me? OK, here's a little test.

See what you can learn about your local teachers union. Work on that for about a week, and tell me if you've learned anything.

Seattle boasts the biggest teachers union in the Pacific Northwest. The Seattle Education Association has also received lots of national publicity. But when I decided to investigate it years ago, I discovered virtually no resources. I couldn't find anything in public libraries. SEA acquired a website only relatively recently, and they're loathe to put any useful information on it.

Who's the head of your teachers union, and what's his/her title - president? Ours has an executive director, a president and a vice president. But it appears to me that the real power is wielded by an individual who's none of the above.

How much do teachers union officials earn? This information isn't readily available, and I'd be interested in knowing if your local union volunteers this information. In Seattle, top officials earn somewhere around $100,000 a year, I believe. They also get enormous travel expenses, which is really odd when no one ever sees them in schools.

Hey, that's a good question to ask teachers: Have you ever seen a teachers union official in a school?

Besides names and salaries, what do you know about teachers union officials? What are their backgrounds? What issues are they passionate about? What kind of track records do they have?

Roger Erskine was dispatched from back East by the National Education Association to serve as the Seattle Education's Executive Director. He was as disgusting as Dick Cheney. Exasperated teachers were finally able to vote him out of office - somehow; most of the crooks they expelled snuck back in - after which he was gobbled up by Bill Gates.

He was replaced by a woman who seldom attended union meetings the last I checked.

One of Washington State's top Democrats praised a union official named Kraig Peck as a dynamic "community organizer." Look for information about Kraig Peck in Google; the guy's as invisible as he is corrupt.

This may be the most important question: What does your local union do to actually HELP teachers? Children?

There are plenty of union operatives and stupid teachers who will insist the union actually helped them. I recall one teacher who jumped up and started crying when I criticized the union. She had just been through a harrowing experience with a derelict principal who emotionally abused her and almost got her fired. Thanks to the union, she was able to get a new position in an elementary school, though she dearly missed middle school. Success story? Hardly.

This principal abused MANY teachers before and after Miss Success. She was eventually put in charge of a new, experimental middle school, where her tyranny came under media scrutiny. She was given the boot - and a promotion to a job in the central bureucracy.

What did the union do for her victims? Well, it helped a few hang on to their jobs, but it didn't compensate them for their suffering. It didn't hold the principals accountable. Union goons typically sit on their butts, rising into action only if a derelict principal is mentioned in the newspaper, embarrassing the union.

This isn't just a political issue; it's REALITY. Neither Republicans nor Democrats have any intention of doing anything to fix education. You can forget the Green Party of Seattle, too. Education is a crisis that demands GRASSROOTS attention. Does anyone care?

[graelent]

1. You simply cannot blame the NEA as a whole...

for the failings or politial strife of one of its regional groups.

The NEA is on the forefront of fighting against vouchers, of contributing to campaigns that elect people who care about education, of ensuring the professional welfare of it's members.

If you know of cases of abuse against teachers by a Principal, why have you not called the authorities?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[graelent]

4. NEA

First, The NEA is against Vouchers, not charter schools, as you can find right here. http://www.nea.org/charter.

It is not a lie at all, you obviously have no conception of what you are talking about.

The NEA is a small donor PAC, more information can be found here

From the link

NEA does not use membership dues money for contributions to political parties and candidates, and relies on voluntary donations from members to its Political Action Committee - the NEA Fund for Children and Public Education. By pooling their resources into the NEA Fund for Children and Public Education, NEA members can compete on a level playing field with wealthier interests and play an active and effective role in advancing the cause of public education. NEA's PAC is funded entirely by voluntary contributions and is fully reported to the FEC.

And yes, as you seem to imply that Principals are battering and abusing teachers, then yes, call the police. If you were just engaging in hyperbole and mean emotional abuse, then the incidents should be reported to the local NEA chapter as well as to the school board.

[JailBush]

9. No.

You wrote, "NEA does not use membership dues money for contributions to political parties and candidates, and relies on voluntary donations from members to its Political Action Committee - the NEA Fund for Children and Public Education."

Actually, the WEA has made national headlines for violating the rules regarding PACs.

"And yes, as you seem to imply that Principals are battering and abusing teachers, then yes, call the police. If you were just engaging in hyperbole and mean emotional abuse, then the incidents should be reported to the local NEA chapter as well as to the school board."

I thought I covered that in m original post; local NEA chapters frequently do NOT protect teachers from abuse - be it emotional, administrative or even physical.

[roguevalley]

5. Ah. this then is a pointless argument with you. You won't take the word

of people who know what they are talking about or their own experiences.

There are places to go about corrupt schools and admins. Go to the state oversite board, ours is the Professional Teaching Practices Commission and file a complaint. If there truly is corruption, report it to the District Attorney, the oversite board for your state.

If you are talking about squandered money, etc, that is school boards and admins. That is for the TOWN to stand up against as well as unions. You make it sound like the NEA has unlimited power. It doesn't. Why don't you start a grass roots investigation of all this corruption?

Don't tell me there are no places to go in Washington about this. I
have plenty of places here in Alaska and I've used them. They work.

[JailBush]

10. No.

What do you mean when you say I "won't take the word of people who know what they are talking about or their own experiences"? I spent 16 YEARS in education - not just teaching but as an investigator and activist. I know what I'm talking about.

"There are places to go about corrupt schools and admins."

No, there aren't.

"Go to the state oversite board, ours is the Professional Teaching Practices Commission and file a complaint. If there truly is corruption, report it to the District Attorney, the oversite board for your state."

What if your entire state government is corrupt?

"If you are talking about squandered money, etc, that is school boards and admins. That is for the TOWN to stand up against as well as unions."

True, but if the town does NOT take a stand, that doesn't excuse the union from sitting on its butt.

"You make it sound like the NEA has unlimited power."

Nonsense; I never suggested that ANY organization has unlimited power. I merely think they should do what they can - or at least what they are paid to do.

"Why don't you start a grass roots investigation of all this corruption?"

I already have.

"Don't tell me there are no places to go in Washington about this. I
have plenty of places here in Alaska and I've used them. They work."

Alaska has much less corporate influence that Washington State and is therefore presumably less corrupt. Our Governor, Gary Locke, is notoriously corrupt; though he's a Democrat, many liberals refer to him as a Republican. Our Attorney General is another derelict, as is our invisible Supt. of Public Instruction.

The game is rigged, and teachers unions are working for the wrong side.

[roguevalley]

3. So, Seattle sucks then.

I belong to NEA in Alaska. I was AFT forever until they were blanked
out up here. I don't have a lot of love for NEA until they got their
act together.

Let's talk a bit of reality here.

Schools boards belong to an association and they often elect to negotiate together, working to bust unions as best they can. Up here,
they do that on a regular basis. Depending on how active and strong
your union pres and board are, you are either relatively safe from this moneyed and organized ballyhoo or you aren't.

Any union is only as strong as its membership wants to be.

Unions don't get principals fired. That's the perogative of the school board. This woman is in my boat. I have a crackpot principal
being supported by two crack pot central office admins. This woman should have been fired two schools ago but she wasn't. Was it the fault of the union. Hell no. It was the deliberate decision of the admins in the central office to keep this old hide on because hire and fire is THEIR perogative. Not the union's. If the union had its
way, she would have been fired two schools and fifty-two ruined careers ago.

You mention this:

"This principal abused MANY teachers before and after Miss Success. She was eventually put in charge of a new, experimental middle school, where her tyranny came under media scrutiny. She was given the boot - and a promotion to a job in the central bureucracy."

I don't recall any union having the right to promote, hire or fire
anyone, let alone principals. This was done with the knowledge and support of an obviously corrupt 'central bureaucracy' and school board. Apparently the old adage about shit rising is as true in Seattle in the ed business as it is true at Enron and any place else where the culture of business is corrupt and crony-ridden.

That teacher you think so little of has as much ability to affect the outcome of her situation in a school district as putrid as you imply
Seattle to have as the union is to do anything about a corrupt principal that the district will promote and protect at the expense of all concerned.

Teachers work their butts off. They get paid little, get all the ills of society dumped on them and the only small protect they have is their union. The local is as strong as its members.

"Too many people are ignorant of the fact that the National Eduction Association is as corrupt as Enron. They don't realize what a terrible toll it takes on teachers, parents and children."

Facts please. terrible toll? It and AFT are the only things standing between us and the abyss. You have no idea what a shark infested swamp education is now. Are you a teacher? What experiences do you have in teaching that back up your blanket statements? I am merely interested because I am disillusioned too. However, I bring twenty-seven years of experience in the field to the table when I speak what I say. What is your experience in teaching?

"See what you can learn about your local teachers union. Work on that for about a week, and tell me if you've learned anything."

I have been a member of one or the other union for twenty-seven years. I was local president and state secretary of AFT for eleven.
I attended meetings when I worked and keep up now. I see volunteers working their butts off, I see a state organization that is there in a minute when we need it, I see networking between states and national. That's my experience.

Have you gone to meetings? General meetings are open to the public. Teachers welcome public support. Have you gone to their offices? Those are open to the public. Websites are usually run by teachers with tech experience who volunteer and they are often behind by circumstances, not by choice. Offer to help. Offer suggests. Ask for information. You'll get it.

"Who's the head of your teachers union, and what's his/her title - president? Ours has an executive director, a president and a vice president. But it appears to me that the real power is wielded by an individual who's none of the above."

C.C. is our local president and R is our state. I know uniserv reps and others. They run the local and state along with volunteer boards.

"How much do teachers union officials earn? This information isn't readily available, and I'd be interested in knowing if your local union volunteers this information. In Seattle, top officials earn somewhere around $100,000 a year, I believe. They also get enormous travel expenses, which is really odd when no one ever sees them in schools."

If you don't know, your guess is a guess. That wouldn't surprise me. Its a ball park for most comparable positions but it is only a guess unless you have ascertained it for certain. I see them in schools. I see them on television answering questions. I see them in meetings where the welfare of children is on the agenda. I don't have comparable experiences to you.

"Hey, that's a good question to ask teachers: Have you ever seen a teachers union official in a school?"

Many, many, many times. A better question: Have you ever seen a central office admin or a school board member or the superintendent in your school?" Answer: Never.

"Besides names and salaries, what do you know about teachers union officials? What are their backgrounds? What issues are they passionate about? What kind of track records do they have?"

Local: Volunteers from the unit. All of them are into children's issues, bettering education, protecting and supporting teachers and doing something about No Child Left Behind. They have good track records. Up here, facing the networked school boards, they are damned near miraculous. They get regular salaries, the one -president- who is paid. They also work half day.

State: Paid staff. See above on passions and track record. All of them are careerist teachers or support people.

Maybe its Seattle. Maybe you have a problem with a particular union.
I don't know. My experiences I don't believe are much different than most working teachers. You put in the time you can around work and family and many of the volunteers are heroic in their commitment.

That is my experience.

Although I believe there is room for improvement in NEA, I don't see it as the great satan. I see it as a wall between me and the satanic forces of management.

RV

[IrateCitizen]

8. GREAT Post, RV

As the progeny of two public school teachers, the husband of another, and someone who is even currently aspiring to join the profession now myself -- your setting the record straight about teachers' unions is much appreciated.

[JailBush]

12. Corrections

"I belong to NEA in Alaska. I was AFT forever until they were blanked
out up here. I don't have a lot of love for NEA until they got their
act together."

The NEA has not gotten its act together. Many Washington State teachers were recently talking about joining the AFT or some other union, but they discovered that the obstacles were insurmountable and concluded they were stuck with the NEA.

"Any union is only as strong as its membership wants to be."

That's largely truthful but also misleading. I would think ALL teachers would want their union to be strong. Making it strong requires involvement, but keep in mind that teachers work awfully long hours. That's why each school in Seattle chooses delegates to send to monthly meetings.

The problem is that the meetings are a farce, rigged and manipulated by union officials. The establishment also plays a role in selecting building delegates, so that many schools aren't truly represented at all. it's a frightening sham.

"Unions don't get principals fired. That's the perogative of the school board. . . . If the union had its
way, she would have been fired two schools and fifty-two ruined careers ago."

I never said teachers unions are able to fire principals. But they can ADVOCATE that they be fired. They can investigate them and give them bad publicity if they're really bad - like the principal who drove 40 teachers out of a Seattle high school.

The Seattle teachers union helped the Seattle Chamber of Commerce ram a sleazy contract down teachers' throats, yet they won't even suggest the obvious - that principals get a new contract that allows them to be held accountable.

You mention this:

"This principal abused MANY teachers before and after Miss Success. She was eventually put in charge of a new, experimental middle school, where her tyranny came under media scrutiny. She was given the boot - and a promotion to a job in the central bureucracy."

"That teacher you think so little of has as much ability to affect the outcome of her situation in a school district as putrid as you imply
Seattle to have as the union is to do anything about a corrupt principal that the district will promote and protect at the expense of all concerned."

That's ridiculous; teachers have virtually no power over principals - at least, not in the traditional sense. They could have power if they ditched their worthless unions and engaged in a little vigilante activism. Or they could give their unions a blast of bad publicity, shaming them into doing their jobs. But not one teacher out a thousands will speak out against the corruption in education.

"Teachers work their butts off. They get paid little, get all the ills of society dumped on them and the only small protect they have is their union."

Good point. The fact that teachers are working their butts off - and getting their salaries, benefits and any joy left in the job slashed to boot - is a great testimonial to the passion of America's teachers uions. And when people complain about the unions, the unions' defenders typically reply with the statement you made: "The local is as strong as its members."

OK, so let's say teachers unions are dysfunctional and corrupt because teachers aren't politically active. That helps explain WHY teachers unions are corrupt, but it doesn't change the fact that they ARE corrupt.

"Too many people are ignorant of the fact that the National Eduction Association is as corrupt as Enron. They don't realize what a terrible toll it takes on teachers, parents and children."

"Facts please. terrible toll? It and AFT are the only things standing between us and the abyss. You have no idea what a shark infested swamp education is now. Are you a teacher? What experiences do you have in teaching that back up your blanket statements? I am merely interested because I am disillusioned too."

I spent sixteen years in education, including five years as a substitute. (Subs get even more crap than teachers do and often have a greater knowledge of the problems in education.) After ten years in the trenches, I became a whistelblower. I've done tons of research, ran for public office three times, and am a charter member of NAPTA - the National Association for the Prevention of Teacher Abuse. Visit their website at http://www.endteacherabuse.org to learn more about the extent of teacher bashing - the best evidence that teachers unions don't even exist.

"I have been a member of one or the other union for twenty-seven years. I was local president and state secretary of AFT for eleven.
I attended meetings when I worked and keep up now. I see volunteers working their butts off, I see a state organization that is there in a minute when we need it, I see networking between states and national. That's my experience."

I've seen volunteers working their butts off, too, maost not realizing that they were simply being used. I see networking between corrupt state teachers unions and the corrupt national association, too.

"Have you gone to meetings? General meetings are open to the public. Teachers welcome public support. Have you gone to their offices? Those are open to the public. Websites are usually run by teachers with tech experience who volunteer and they are often behind by circumstances, not by choice. Offer to help. Offer suggests. Ask for information. You'll get it."

Yes, I attended union meetings regularly. Yes, I've offered to help, offered suggestions and asked for information. Information was not forthcoming, and few teachers welcome help - most are simply too afraid to get involved, and many organized groups are merely teachers union puppets.

"C.C. is our local president and R is our state. I know uniserv reps and others. They run the local and state along with volunteer boards."

Their names are C.C. and R?

"If you don't know , your guess is a guess."

I didn't say I don't know. I've seen the figures, but they aren't readily avaiable to the public, and I remember many teachers voicing concern that the figures weren't entirely honest; many wanted to know more about their perks.

"I see them in schools. I see them on television answering questions. I see them in meetings where the welfare of children is on the agenda. I don't have comparable experiences to you."

In sixteen years in public education, I recall seeing teachers union officials in schools on less than half a dozen occasions.

ME: "Hey, that's a good question to ask teachers: Have you ever seen a teachers union official in a school?"

YOU: "Many, many, many times. A better question: Have you ever seen a central office admin or a school board member or the superintendent in your school?" Answer: Never."

Actually, I saw the late John Stanford in schools about as many times as I've seen all of Seattle's teachers union officials in schools combined - and Stanford was as corrupt as the union.

ME: "Besides names and salaries, what do you know about teachers union officials? What are their backgrounds? What issues are they passionate about? What kind of track records do they have?"

YOU: "Local: Volunteers from the unit. All of them are into children's issues, bettering education, protecting and supporting teachers and doing something about No Child Left Behind. They have good track records. Up here, facing the networked school boards, they are damned near miraculous. They get regular salaries, the one -president- who is paid. They also work half day."

Sounds impressive. Can you offer links to their websites so I can verify your claim? Can I read about a particular union official, or do they just make blanket statements and toss a lot of rhetoric around?

"State: Paid staff. See above on passions and track record. All of them are careerist teachers or support people."

Ours are career crooks and only pretend to support people.

"Maybe its Seattle. Maybe you have a problem with a particular union."

Not just Seattle. Teachers complain about being deserted by their unions across the nation - the only problem is that the vast majority are too timid to speak out loudly. It's well known that thousands of teachers desert education daily, yet only a very tiny percentage get politically involved.

[displacedtexan]

6. you must improve your research skills

i created a database for a presidential candidate a few months ago by data mining names and email addresses.
piece of cake... every local (or district) had readily available info on the union (except for a few extremely rural groups).

also, you must not be a teacher, either, because each school district is mandated by state law to publish all salaries each year.

i have to question your motives for posting such lies about teachers' unions.

even if a local is weak, joining the state ed assoc is crucial for teachers because of two words: malpractice insurance.

teachers are easy targets for politicians because parents, administrators, and religious leaders are never held responsible for a child's success or failure.

[roguevalley]

7. thanks displacedtexan. very nice post.

[JailBush]

14. A teachers union database?

You wrote, "i created a database for a presidential candidate a few months ago by data mining names and email addresses. piece of cake... every local (or district) had readily available info on the union (except for a few extremely rural groups)."

Hey, that's a great tip! Can you share any of your information with me?

And is the information limited to the names and e-mail addresses of union officials, or did you find any information that might help you evaluate a union's performance.

"also, you must not be a teacher, either, because each school district is mandated by state law to publish all salaries each year."

Each school district is required to publish the salaries of TEACHERS UNION OFFICIALS???

"i have to question your motives for posting such lies about teachers' unions."

I'm not a liar; I publish the truth.

"even if a local is weak, joining the state ed assoc is crucial for teachers because of two words: malpractice insurance."

True; that's about the only thing teachers unions are good for - and even that's questionable at times.

teachers are easy targets for politicians because parents, administrators, and religious leaders are never held responsible for a child's success or failure."

True - and because teachers unions do so little to protect them.

[Cheswick2.0]

11. what are you talking about?

Too many people are ignorant of the fact that the National Eduction Association is as corrupt as Enron. They don't realize what a terrible toll it takes on teachers, parents and children.

<<<Got facts?>>

Many people dispute my claims, but their arguments are irrelevant when one considers how little most people know about teachers unions. Don't believe me? OK, here's a little test.

<<<It seems like you are the one who knows nothing about the topic>>>

See what you can learn about your local teachers union. Work on that for about a week, and tell me if you've learned anything.

<<<<I know plenty about my local union. However since you are not a member it is none of your business>>>>

Seattle boasts the biggest teachers union in the Pacific Northwest. The Seattle Education Association has also received lots of national publicity. But when I decided to investigate it years ago, I discovered virtually no resources. I couldn't find anything in public libraries. SEA acquired a website only relatively recently, and they're loathe to put any useful information on it.

<<<< what exactly do you think you are entitled to know and why? Are you a member of the Union?>>>>>

Who's the head of your teachers union, and what's his/her title - president? Ours has an executive director, a president and a vice president. But it appears to me that the real power is wielded by an individual who's none of the above.

<<< so you know the names and positions of these people, but you are convinced someone else is running the union? Got FACTS?>>>>

How much do teachers union officials earn? This information isn't readily available, and I'd be interested in knowing if your local union volunteers this information. In Seattle, top officials earn somewhere around $100,000 a year, I believe. They also get enormous travel expenses, which is really odd when no one ever sees them in schools.
<<< gee 100k for the executive in charge of a huge organization. Horrors!>>>>>

Hey, that's a good question to ask teachers: Have you ever seen a teachers union official in a school?

<<<< why would I want to? I see them at union meetings where they belong.>>>>>

Besides names and salaries, what do you know about teachers union officials? What are their backgrounds? What issues are they passionate about? What kind of track records do they have?

<<<Who cares? Really, why would I care what they are passionate about?>>>>

Roger Erskine was dispatched from back East by the National Education Association to serve as the Seattle Education's Executive Director. He was as disgusting as Dick Cheney. Exasperated teachers were finally able to vote him out of office - somehow; most of the crooks they expelled snuck back in - after which he was gobbled up by Bill Gates.

<<<< they voted him out so the system works, right?>>>>


He was replaced by a woman who seldom attended union meetings the last I checked.

<<<< okay I'll take your word for it :eyes:>>>>

One of Washington State's top Democrats praised a union official named Kraig Peck as a dynamic "community organizer." Look for information about Kraig Peck in Google; the guy's as invisible as he is corrupt.

<<<< invisible and corrupt, how would you know?>>>>


This may be the most important question: What does your local union do to actually HELP teachers? Children?

<<<protects teachers jobs. They are not in charge of children, the teachers and staff are>>>>>

There are plenty of union operatives and stupid teachers who will insist the union actually helped them. I recall one teacher who jumped up and started crying when I criticized the union. She had just been through a harrowing experience with a derelict principal who emotionally abused her and almost got her fired. Thanks to the union, she was able to get a new position in an elementary school, though she dearly missed middle school. Success story? Hardly.

This principal abused MANY teachers before and after Miss Success. She was eventually put in charge of a new, experimental middle school, where her tyranny came under media scrutiny. She was given the boot - and a promotion to a job in the central bureucracy.

<<<< UMMM what does that have to do with the union? That's a school board issue>>>>>

What did the union do for her victims? Well, it helped a few hang on to their jobs, but it didn't compensate them for their suffering. It didn't hold the principals accountable. Union goons typically sit on their butts, rising into action only if a derelict principal is mentioned in the newspaper, embarrassing the union.

<<<< again, how is this the responsibility of the teachers union?>>>

This isn't just a political issue; it's REALITY. Neither Republicans nor Democrats have any intention of doing anything to fix education. You can forget the Green Party of Seattle, too. Education is a crisis that demands GRASSROOTS attention. Does anyone care?

<<<So what exactly is wrong with education. You always fail to state what your exact problem is. This sounds very personal to me>>>>>

[JailBush]

15. None of my business???

You wrote, <<<<I know plenty about my local union. However since you are not a member it is none of your business>>>>

Why is that such a sensitive issue? Can you at least tell us the NAME of your teachers union?

<<<< what exactly do you think you are entitled to know and why? Are you a member of the Union?>>>>>

I was a member of the union until I got laid off. What was I entitled to know and why? ANYTHING! I couldn't figure out why the school district and the union were both so dysfunctional. So I decided to find out what makes them tick. What was the union's history? How is it organized? Funded? Who are the key members and what re their backgrounds? I drew a blank; it's virtually invisible.

ME: "Who's the head of your teachers union, and what's his/her title - president? Ours has an executive director, a president and a vice president. But it appears to me that the real power is wielded by an individual who's none of the above."

<<< so you know the names and positions of these people, but you are convinced someone else is running the union? Got FACTS?>>>>

The individual I think runs the SEA is also a union official, but he isn't the Executive Director, the President or the Vice President. The President and Vice President appear to be figureheads.

<<< gee 100k for the executive in charge of a huge organization. Horrors!>>>>>

It is when they aren't doing their job - or when they stab teachers in the back.

ME: "Hey, that's a good question to ask teachers: Have you ever seen a teachers union official in a school?"

<<<< why would I want to? I see them at union meetings where they belong.>>>>>

It would be nice if they had a clue about what happens in the classroom or made some token gestures to indicate that they care.

ME: "Besides names and salaries, what do you know about teachers union officials? What are their backgrounds? What issues are they passionate about? What kind of track records do they have?"

<<<Who cares? Really, why would I care what they are passionate about?>>>>

You're joking, right? Would you really be content with a teachers union official who had no teaching experience and didn't give a rat's ass if students passed or failed???

ME: "Roger Erskine was dispatched from back East by the National Education Association to serve as the Seattle Education's Executive Director. He was as disgusting as Dick Cheney. Exasperated teachers were finally able to vote him out of office - somehow; most of the crooks they expelled snuck back in - after which he was gobbled up by Bill Gates."

<<<< they voted him out so the system works, right?>>>>

Not really. They did succeed in voting several corrupt teachers union offcials out - but all of them came back. Erskine even came back temporarily; I'm not sure how they rigged it, but the "reformed" union lasted less than a year.

ME: "One of Washington State's top Democrats praised a union official named Kraig Peck as a dynamic "community organizer." Look for information about Kraig Peck in Google; the guy's as invisible as he is corrupt."

<<<< invisible and corrupt, how would you know?>>>>

How would I know? Because I 1) live in Seattle, 2) worked in education, 3) attended union meetings, 4) have seen Kraig Peck in action, 5) interviewed several teachers who gave me information about him, etc. etc. As for the "invisible" charge, don't take my word for it - search for information about Kraig Peck in Google.

ME: "This may be the most important question: What does your local union do to actually HELP teachers? Children?"

<<<protects teachers jobs. They are not in charge of children, the teachers and staff are>>>>>

Aw, but the NEA CLAIMS to care about children. Several years ago, they launched a propaganda campaign, claiming they're no longer protecting bad teachers (as if they ever protected GOOD teachers). The NEA said it cared about student success. If they're no longer promoting that baloney on their website, it shouldn't be hard to dig up some records relating to that sleazy propaganda campaign.

ME: "This principal abused MANY teachers before and after Miss Success. She was eventually put in charge of a new, experimental middle school, where her tyranny came under media scrutiny. She was given the boot - and a promotion to a job in the central bureucracy."

<<<< UMMM what does that have to do with the union? That's a school board issue>>>>>

When a derelict principal abuses a TEACHER - who is supposedly protected by a teachers union, it becomes a union issue. If a union truly cares about education in general - as the NEA claims it does - it should also show an interest in the central bureaucracy.

ME: "What did the union do for her victims? Well, it helped a few hang on to their jobs, but it didn't compensate them for their suffering. It didn't hold the principals accountable. Union goons typically sit on their butts, rising into action only if a derelict principal is mentioned in the newspaper, embarrassing the union."

<<<< again, how is this the responsibility of the teachers union?>>>

Is that a serious question??? Do you know what unions are all about?

ME: "This isn't just a political issue; it's REALITY. Neither Republicans nor Democrats have any intention of doing anything to fix education. You can forget the Green Party of Seattle, too. Education is a crisis that demands GRASSROOTS attention. Does anyone care?"

<<<So what exactly is wrong with education. You always fail to state what your exact problem is. This sounds very personal to me>>>>>

What is wrong with education? Sheez, do you REALLY work in the classroom? The problems with education include teacher bashing, high-stakes tests, corporate takeovers, rampant commercialism, derelict principals, carpetbagging superintendents, corrupt teachers unions and school boards, Clinton's Goals 2000, Bush's Leave No Child Alive Act, corporate downsizing, sick school syndrome and on and on.

[alcuno]

13. As a former union officer, I'm not really sure what you are talking about.

Union officers are elected by the teachers and are responsible to the teachers. I often hear people whine about the unions; they are elected and paid for by the teachers and have the obligation of seeing that both the teachers and the School Board uphold their end of the contract. Truth to tell, that's it.

Our union president earns the salary of a full-time teacher and while it's not information we withhold, it's not really any of your business unless you are a teacher in that district.

If union officials are not spending time in the schools, it's for their membership to hold them accountable. Again, I don't see that that is the business of the general public.

You've given one bad story and alluded to others, but I still don't see your point. As a former union goon, I've dealt with a wide array of teachers, Board members, and members of the administration. I deal with children every day as it is my job. However, the unpaid work that I did dealt with contractual issues.

If the schools aren't working, it's the responsibility of the Board and the administration. They are in charge of the district and need to stop trying to hand off their incompetence with the unions. I know they make an easy target but they're really not the right one.

[JailBush]

16. More Comments

"Union officers are elected by the teachers and are responsible to the teachers."

Likewise, public officials are elected by the public - but we all know that corruption gives us presidents like George W. Bush. Ditto for teachers union "elections."

"I often hear people whine about the unions; they are elected and paid for by the teachers and have the obligation of seeing that both the teachers and the School Board uphold their end of the contract. Truth to tell, that's it."

I KNOW what their obligations are; the problem is that too many don't meet their obligations.

"Our union president earns the salary of a full-time teacher and while it's not information we withhold, it's not really any of your business unless you are a teacher in that district."

The information should be READILY AVAILABLE to a district's teachers, at the very least. Teachers should not have to file a freedom of information request to see it; it should be posted on the Internet. And if that means people in all 50 states can see it, SO WHAT? What have your union officials got to hide? For crying out loud, teachers are public officials themselves, and a teachers union official is even more of a "public personage."

"If union officials are not spending time in the schools, it's for their membership to hold them accountable. Again, I don't see that that is the business of the general public."

That's a very arrogant attitude. Taxpayers pay teachers salaries, which in turn pay teachers union officials' salaries. If there were no taxpayers, there would be no teachers unions. Taxpayers also have a vested interest in the performance of public schools, and teachers unions are a very important aspect of that success.

"You've given one bad story and alluded to others, but I still don't see your point."

My point is that the National Education Association and most of its affiliates are corrupt.

"If the schools aren't working, it's the responsibility of the Board and the administration..." but not the union? If a teachers union has nothing to do with education, then why is it called a TEACHERS union?

"They are in charge of the district and need to stop trying to hand off their incompetence with the unions. I know they make an easy target but they're really not the right one."

Many school boards and teachers unions are in bed together. It's business as usual in America's 21st century "public" schools.

[alcuno]

18. I must admit that I find your arguments quite idiotic.

You either have never been a member of a teacher's union or you are confused. I hardly know where to begin so I'll just say that you need to do some research if you are so interested. However, union business is for union membership; the records of expenditures are available through the Treasurer. Unlike a School Board meeting which is open to the public, a union meeting is not; it is not a public organization.

You said that taxpayers pay teachers salaries and they in turn pay the salaries of the union officials. And your point would be what? Our salaries go toward all sorts of things that are none of your business. The teacher's contract is available for all to see and that's about it.

If schools are not working, it its the responsibility of the Board and administration. They have the power to hire and fire and they have total control over the budget. The union has none of those things so you must separate district responsibilites, which obviously include the teachers, from union responsibilities.

[JailBush]

19. Have you been following this thread?

You wrote, "You either have never been a member of a teacher's union or you are confused."

I very clearly stated that I HAVE been a member of a teachers union, attended union meetings and conducted my own investigation. I don't understand why that's so hard for you to understand.

"I hardly know where to begin so I'll just say that you need to do some research if you are so interested."

You need to do some research, too - beginning with this thread.

"You said that taxpayers pay teachers salaries and they in turn pay the salaries of the union officials. And your point would be what?"

If you check out the post where I wrote that, you could probably figure it out.

"Our salaries go toward all sorts of things that are none of your business. The teacher's contract is available for all to see and that's about it."

My, you seem awfully sensitive about union business. Why is it such a big secret?

"If schools are not working, it its the responsibility of the Board and administration."

And the teachers union, teachers, parents, etc.

"They have the power to hire and fire and they have total control over the budget. The union has none of those things so you must separate district responsibilites, which obviously include the teachers, from union responsibilities."

Teachers unions' responsibilities don't include teachers???

[ithacan]

17. the head of the union in our district is excellent

she is in the schools, she is at the board meetings and other committee meetings, she helps parents when they need an advocate, helps teachers, including ones subjected to tyrranical crazy principals, and is worth every penny she is paid.

[JailBush]

20. That's what I like to hear...

What's the name of your union and its head? Or is another secret?