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Why Kucinich is Right: Vietnamization & Iraqization - Two Doomed Policies

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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:28 PM
Original message
Why Kucinich is Right: Vietnamization & Iraqization - Two Doomed Policies
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 12:19 AM by David Zephyr
The month was November and the year was 1969. President Richard Nixon gave a nationally televised speech to the American public outlining his “plan” for withdrawing U.S. troops from out of Vietnam. Nixon spoke of what he called the “Vietnamization” of the War, which was his “plan” to replace American soldiers with South Vietnamese combatants who would be trained by our military. This promise, as might be expected, was a great solace to the war-wearied American people.

At that time, the United States had over 500,000 American soldiers in Vietnam. And the war was not going well. Over 35,000 American soldiers had already been killed in Vietnam.

I was 17 years old and a freshman in college in Texas where I just had organized our campus’ participation in the National Peace Moratorium on October 15th. The dean had called me to his office and threatened to expel me if I proceeded. In the end he conceded and some thirty students wearing black armbands gathered together in front of the Student Union Building for a few hours of speeches, songs and chants. Needless to say, we represented only a tiny minority of the overall student population who heckled and taunted us, occasionally tossing rocks us. Wisely, we knew to resist being baited into physical confrontations as the dean had called in law enforcement from local municipalities and it was obvious they were itching for some action.

That same day, it has been estimated that some 20 million Americans took part in the Moratorium.

In reaction to the obvious growing opposition to the war, Nixon made his now infamous “Vietnamization” Speech on November 3rd---just two weeks after the National Moratorium. I have provided excerpts that 1969 speech by Nixon below because the parallels between Nixon’s Vietnamization and George W. Bush’s current Iraqization of our military’s failing occupation of that nation are simply to striking to ignore.

Just this very evening, we learn from CNN, that some “300 of 700 members of the new Iraqi army have resigned, citing unhappiness with terms, conditions and pay and with instructions of commanding officers.” The U.S. military spokesperson explains it this way: "It's a new force, and ... we face some difficulties."

Hear the language in the CNN report: “Last month, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the Pentagon and the Coalition Provisional Authority were discussing recalling some units of the former Iraqi army, which was formally dissolved in May. The discussions followed a letter two senators sent President Bush about the ‘need to speed up the process by which Iraqis assume greater responsibility’ for security as the coalition prepares to cede power back to Iraqis in July."

Now, l ask you to hear the language from the disgraced former President Richard Nixon in his speech to the American people thirty-four years ago last month.

*********************************************************************

PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON’S SPEECH ON “VIETNAMIZATION,” NOVEMBER 3, 1969:

“My fellow Americans, I am sure you can recognize from what I have said that we really only have two choices open to us if we want to end this war. -I can order an immediate, precipitate withdrawal of all Americans from Vietnam without regard to the effects of that action.

”-Or we can persist in our search for a just peace through a negotiated settlement if possible, or through continued implementation of our plan for Vietnamization if necessary a plan in which we will withdraw all our forces from Vietnam on a schedule in accordance with our program, as the South Vietnamese become strong enough to defend their own freedom.

”I have chosen this second course. It is not the easy way. It is the right way.

”It is a plan which will end the war and serve the cause of peace not just in Vietnam but in the Pacific and in the world. In speaking of the consequences of a precipitate withdrawal, I mentioned that our allies would lose confidence in America.

”Far more dangerous, we would lose confidence in ourselves. Oh, the immediate reaction would be a sense of relief that our men were coming home. But as we saw the consequences of what we had done, inevitable remorse and divisive recrimination would scar our spirit as a people.

”We have faced other crises in our history and have become stronger by rejecting the easy way out and taking the right way in meeting our challenges. Our greatness as a nation has been our capacity to do what had to be done when we knew our course was right.

”I recognize that some of my fellow citizens disagree with the plan for peace I have chosen. Honest and patriotic Americans have reached different conclusions as to how peace should be achieved.
In San Francisco a few weeks ago, I saw demonstrators carrying signs reading: "Lose in Vietnam, bring the boys home."

”Well, one of the strengths of our free society is that any American has a right to reach that conclusion and to advocate that point of view. But as President of the United States, I would be untrue to my oath of office if I allowed the policy of this Nation to be dictated by the minority who hold that point of view and who try to impose it on the Nation by mounting demonstrations in the street.

”For almost 200 years, the policy of this Nation has been made under our Constitution by those leaders in the Congress and the White House elected by all of the people. If a vocal minority, however fervent its cause, prevails over reason and the will of the majority, this Nation has no future as a free society.

”And now I would like to address a word, if I may, to the young people of this Nation who are particularly concerned, and I understand why they are concerned, about this war. I respect your idealism. I share your concern for peace. I want peace as much as you do.

”There are powerful personal reasons I want to end this war. This week I will have to sign 83 letters to mothers, fathers, wives, and loved ones of men who have given their lives for America in Vietnam. It is very little satisfaction to me that this is only one-third as many letters as I signed the first week in office. There is nothing I want more than to see the day come when I do not have to write any of those letters.

”-I want to end the war to save the lives of those brave young men in Vietnam. -But I want to end it in a way which will increase the chance that their younger brothers and their sons will not have to fight in some future Vietnam someplace in the world.”

*********************************************************************

Well, the war in Vietnam did not end soon. In fact, it continued on until April 30, 1975 when the revolutionary forces marched triumphantly into Saigon, which was renamed Ho Chi Minh City.

When Nixon gave his “Vietnamization” speech, some 35,000 American troops had been killed. In the near six following years another 23,000 Americans would die there---58,000 in total.

And it is always important to point out that some two million Vietnamese were killed because of the war. Professor Howard Zinn points out that the U.S. dropped more bombs on the tiny land of Vietnam then it did in all of Europe and Asia during World War II. Further, when one accounts for the dead resulting from the war in neighboring Laos and Cambodia, the numbers are a staggering 3 million.

This evening I decided to do some math of my own. The results were astonishing.

Imagine with me for a moment the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington, D.C. Imagine the somber, sobering extent and length of that sacred wall.

If the names of the Indo-Chinese killed because of the war were added to the memorial, the same length of wall would then stand 53 stories high! What a dark shadow such a wall would cast over the Capitol of our nation!

When President Ford, Nixon’s successor, and his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger finally pulled our troops out of Vietnam --- doing, I might point out, exactly what Democratic Presidential Candidate George McGovern had promised to do back in 1972 --- the richest and most powerful nation in the world had been humiliated and defeated in war by a small, farming and peasant population.

The Vietnamization of that occupied nation had failed miserably against a popular uprising and insurgency. Do we honestly expect a different result in Iraq?

Dennis Kucinich has the only solution to the War in Iraq: "U.S. Out, U.N. In."

--David Zephyr, Claremont, California
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hoping This Thread Has Some Life.
And hoping you will share these facts with those who think we must remain in Iraq to secure a peace there.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. How long will Kerry, Dean, or Clark keep us in Iraq?
It seems to me most of the candidates, including Sharpton, want to stay to "finish the job" - I think that means until Iraq is an international model of capitalism and democracy, and a shining beacon to the Arab world.

How long will that take exactly? 2 years? 5 years? 25 years?
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Howard Dean Said "Years" in Koppel's Debate.
Not acceptable.
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petrock2004 Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. hi i'm new
and while i think this war is a complete disgrace, i am young myself and can't help but be afraid that this war is just helping to piss off more iraqis, arabs, and heck, even europeans. so i guess, while i DON'T want to stay in iraq, at the same time, i can't really swallow the idea of just going over there, bombing the shit out of them, and then leaving them to clean up the mess.

i think some day when i'm not a poor college student i'll make them blankets or something... but for now i'll satisfy my pacifism by protesting the war.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Welcome to the DU, Petrock2004
And welcome to the anti-war dissenting crowd here.

You are right, "this war is a complete disgrace."
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. what a great first post
welcome petrock2004!

you'll soon read here about BushCo's plan to reinstitute the draft if they steal it again in 2004. no more college deferments, my friend.

the more you learn, the happier you'll be you are protesting this catastrophe.

welcome again!
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Kucinich's Plan to Leave Iraq
Petrock2004, I wanted to address your concern, "while i DON'T want to stay in iraq, at the same time, i can't really swallow the idea of just going over there, bombing the shit out of them, and then leaving them to clean up the mess."

I feel the same way.

Here's what Congressman Kucinich says:

Kucinich: "The US owes a moral debt to the people of Iraq for the damage caused by the US invasion. The US will also owe a contribution to the UN to help Iraq make the transition to self-government. American taxpayers deserve that their contributions be handled in an accountable, transparent manner. However, Americans are not required to build a state-of-the-art infrastructure as the Administration is planning."

In fact, you can see his plan, "UN in, US out. Kucinich's Plan to Bring Our Troops Home" at this link.

http://www.kucinich.us/bringourtroopshome.php
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ErasureAcer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. exactly, he has a plan for UN reconstruction of Iraq
he understands that the world has to work together if we want to achieve goals.
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petrock2004 Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. thanks
for the warm welcome :-)

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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. Hi petrock2004!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. I remember watching the evacuation of Saigon live
on TV. Remember the Vietnamese crashing their helicopters on the water trying to get the Americans to take them with them.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. So Do I, Cleita.
One of the saddest days in American history.

Our soldiers betrayed. Our citizens lied to. Our treasury robbed. Our national image trashed.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. When the memorial to the Iraq War is built
how many thousands of names will be on it? :-(
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. And There Will Be A Memorial, Lydia Leftcoast.
Bush and Cheney's war built on lies.
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. thanks, david
it will never end as long as we are there.

we have done such a horrible thing...
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. "Horrible Thing"
Indeed. Thanks. :hi:
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. What an amazing post
I opposed the first "excursion" into Iraq by the US, and oppose this one, too. Your post should be required reading for ANYBODY who is resigned to the "we're stuck" mantra that is so prevalent among many Democrats today.

Right now, we are NOT stuck. If we continue to send more troops, creating more hostility and more attacks at our people, then we WILL be stuck.

The parallels between Vietnam and Iraq are quite frightening, especially considering they both started with a lie by the president to congress.

Thanks for posting this David. Very good work.
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. what no name no slogan said
the parallels are so strong, there's very little that is different.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Thanks. And You Are So Right, "We Are Not Stuck"
From the transcript of the New Hampshire Debate this week on ABC regarding staying or leaving Iraq:

KOPPEL: I just want to make sure that I understand Governor Dean correctly. In other words, you're saying, given where we are today, a continuing presence of some number of U.S. troops is going to be essential over a period of, what, years?

DEAN: Over a period of a few years, until the Iraqis really are able to have a democracy which is strong enough not to allow Al Qaida to emerge and has a constitution that's widely enough respected so they will not have a fundamentalist Shiite regime.

KOPPEL: Congressman?

KUCINICH: Well, I'd like to take issue with something that's been said here. You know, the war's not over. The war is not over. We have 130,000 troops there. And the occupation equals a war.

Now, my plan, which I mentioned earlier, which is on a Web site at kucinich.us, and I'd like everyone to look at it, calls for the end of the occupation, for the United States to get out.

Now, the U.N. will not cooperate unless the U.S. takes a change of direction. And here's the change of direction: The Bush administration must let go of its aspirations to control the oil in Iraq.

(APPLAUSE)

They must hand over to the U.N. the handling of the oil, on a transitional basis, so the U.N. can handle it for the Iraqi people until the Iraqi people can be self-governing.

KUCINICH: The U.S. must hand over to the U.N. the contracting process. No more Halliburton sweetheart deals, no more war- profiteering, no more bids going to people who have contributed to the administration.

The United States must let go of the plan to privatize the Iraq economy, because, frankly, that's a violation of both the Hague and Geneva conventions, and that's another sticking point.

We have to turn over to the U.N. the cause of governance and helping to write a constitution.

You know, you can't say, as Dr. Dean has, that you're against the war but you're for the occupation.

(APPLAUSE)

Because by keeping our troops in Iraq for years, you're essentially keeping the war going.

The New York Times had the article yesterday, Ted, and, you know, maybe you saw it, how there is tough new tactics by the U.S. to tighten the grip on Iraqi towns. I mean, the tactics that this administration is having our men and women use are intensifying the war. There's going to be greater casualties.

Now, the plan that I just talked about, in addition to having the U.S. provide for rebuilding what we blew up, providing reparations to the innocent Iraqis who were killed, providing an opportunity for -- we have to provide some money so that we can bring U.N. troops in.

KUCINICH: But, Ted, unless we get the U.S. troops out of there totally, we're never going to see a situation where that war is going to be over. We're going to continue to be attacked.

And we need to get the U.N. in and get the U.S. out, end that occupation. And this is a centerpiece of my campaign for the presidency of the United States.

(APPLAUSE)

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
32. And one more piece:
We are not stuck there, Dr. Dean. The only difference between a rut and a grave is in the dimensions. We are not stuck there.

Thank you for this thread.

:kick:
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks David!
One of the very best posts all week, and a keeper. It makes many of the salient points about Iraq I have made, and DK is getting out there in his speeches.

Glad to kick it. :kick:
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Thanks ZW!
I'm about to retire for the evening.

I hope this thread can have a little life tomorrow.

Politics and campaigns aside, this War needs to be addressed.

Thanks. :hi:
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hedgetrimmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
12. a bumpditty of a kick... the mirage is broken, let the country be
both ours and theirs...
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. keep it up top
they have done this before and it was a nightmare

please remember that the USSR lost the USSR because they tried to grab Afganhastan (among other reasons, but that bankrupted them and demoralized and they lost)
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
23. Another ZombyKick
:kick:
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
25. eloquent and poignant, David
the historical references enables us to put Kucinich's plan for our current situation in perspective.

If were not for the blatant greed of this Administration, the U.N. could have been in Iraq right now.

thank you, dear David, for alerting me(I would have missed it.)

Our vision and hope for a better world is possible!

Kucinich is with us.

peace, My Friend.





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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Thanks, Buddhamama. And You Are Right, It's About Greed.
You make it clear and simple, "If were not for the blatant greed of this Administration, the U.N. could have been in Iraq right now."

Greed took us into Iraq.
Greed got us stuck in Iraq.
And only greed will keep us from leaving Iraq.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
26. A kick and a thought.
This is a keeper David. I am bookmarking it. My thought. We think it is bad now, what will it be like if we stay? More Iraqis will die, more soldiers will die and as the Iraqis die they will take their efforts and begin to coalesce into a striking force that will keep us there forever and plunge us back into real, continuous fighting. This has been a magnificent failure so lets stop it now, clean it up and elect someone who will not alienate the rest of the world, Dennis Kucinich.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. "Magnificient Failure"
Indeed it has been just that.

I believe that the invasion of Iraq is the greatest military blunder in the history of the United States.

Thanks, MuseRider! :hi:
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. a kick for my friend David
:loveya: and for Kucinich!

:kick:
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. kick for all to read!
TWL
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
30. God bless you, Mr. Zephyr
I was lucky enough to catch similar information shared by Howard Zinn during a speech promoting his latest book. I was floored, and have since become with each passing day even more intent on letting people know we're being led down that same dead-end road now as then.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you.

:hug:
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. If We Could Get Every American to Read Zinn, We'd Change Everything.
At least "A People's History of the United States".

Until we, as progressives, can make collectively make class awareness our number one priority, we are simply going to keep fighting the same old battles over and over again.

If each of us, within our own circle of friends and family, could just get three or four people to read the "People's History" we could begin to turn a lot of things around by changing people's attitudes and metaphorical constructs by which they view the world.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
33. Just a saturday morning
:kick:

dp
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
34. kick
:kick:
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. This is one area I wish Dean were more like Kucinich
DK has it right...the philosphy behind the current Bush Doctrine is a no win. It's out of date, all wrong for the future considering current realities.

On caveat: There is something to the argument that a sudden and complete pull out with no attempt to clean up our mess would be disastrous for Iraq. They are, arguably, on the cusp of civil war as it is.

I'm not so sure what the answer is on this one.


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snoochie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. He's not proposing a sudden and complete pull out
Nor is he proposing making no attempt to clean up the mess.

He's simply saying we need to take off the American face, and remove American control of the financial windfall from the reconstruction contracts.

He has clearly stated we will be funding this operation... lack of funds is part of the reason the UN is unable to do much without US Support. We don't want to fund other people's militaries to do the work, we want to be 'in control' (what an illusion).

Look into his proposal more closely. Contact the campaign for details. The man is principle in the flesh. I'm shocked every single time I think about it. It's hard to find this in religious institutions, let alone politics.
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snoochie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
37. This is exactly right.
Edited on Sat Dec-13-03 10:44 PM by snoochie
And now that Kucinich has grabbed even more attention, through his principled stand against the whored out media Tuesday night, his "Welcome to the Movement" page went from 16 pages to 26 pages. A lot of newer posts mention that confrontation.

He's catching on, and there will be no stopping him once the public wakes up to the similarities between Iraq and Vietnam. Kucinich will keep hammering on how our tax money going to fund that war will make it impossible to achieve anything on the domestic front.

People are coming around, and realizing he's a real liberal Democrat. They want that, and God willing we'll get it. :)
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