Ok...I have to say it...we're starting to sound like Kerry on Dean

[Khephra]

Rove, Rove, Rove, Rove, Rove!

[Closer]

1. No kidding

enough with that buttfuck of a troll already. I swear he's not nearly as smart as DUers give him credit for.

He's treated like some evil god here or something. It's really bizarre, and quite disturbing.

Really folks, Rove has not SHIT on Trippi. Know that.

[slinkerwink]

2. he's not, and if Rove was smart, Bush would be polling at 70%

but Rove isn't.

[mikehiggins]

3. Rove is yesterday's devil

and nothing more. The problem these guys have is that they become known commodities in short order and like the flu, you can get vacinnated.

I could run a much nastier campaign than Karl Rove ever imagined, and I wouldn't need polls and focus groups to do it.

First thing I'd do is make everyone working for me real Saul Alinsky's books and then turn them loose.

Nothing would be left standing.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. "everyone working for me read Saul Alinsky's books"

yep :bounce:

[Hope4]

4. Why worry about Rove when your facing this

Friends who are catholic told me that the Catholic bishops will come out hard against anyone that claims to be catholic and is for abortion and gays this year. Something major is brewing.

Are any of our candidates catholic?

They told me the church is going to make a stand and not allow people in office to say they are catholic and be for abortion and gays.

Might not want Kennedy's or Dashle to support you.

[Jerseycoa]

5. Clark is Catholic

He attends a Presbyterian Church. He has spoken out against the Catholic Church's social bigotry. I doubt he will give a shit what they say.

[DinkyDem]

10. They will paint him

as a sinner and a blasphemer. There is no way he could win in the south or midwest when they do. Clark is as good as roadkill.

Next?

[mikehiggins]

12. Didn't the Pope condemn the Iraq war?

Seriously, do you think most Christians in the South are Catholic? If the Catholic Church condemns Clark, how will the Baptists view that? The episcopalians? The Lutherans? The Calvinists? All those groups that teach that the Pope is the spawn of Satan?

And furthermore, do you think most Catholics would listen to a bishop who was trying to tell him or her how to vote? Here's a clue: how many catholics do you think use birth control?

If I voted for Clark after he was condemned by the Church, how many Our Fathers and Hail Mary's would I have to say to be forgiven?

I have been a faithful Catholic all my life but the bishops should straighten out the sexual abuse of young boys in the Church before taking on any "moral" crusades dealing with the Presidency.

Any Catholic who bowed to that pressure would never be elected, nor should he be.

[HuckleB]

15. Good post.

This Catholic Bishop "issue" isn't something to worry about.

[DinkyDem]

16. I'm not talking about the war

I'm talking about being pro-life.

That is what the church is targeting, and being disowned by his church will play poorly in the south and midwest, even if they aren't Catholics themselves.

[TorchTheWitch]

18. disowned?

Where did you come up with that? Clark is still a Catholic and was never excommunicated (what you seem to think is "disowned"). He and his wife prefer to go to the Presbyterian church because they like the service and music better.

Do your homework, please.

[DinkyDem]

19. You clearly missed the point

It was not to say that he was excommunicated.
From what I understand, the Catholic church in the US will be taking a hard line against pro-choice Catholics running for political office.

They will not go as far as formally excommunicating them, but they will publicly call on them to not call themselves Catholic.

IF Clark gets the nomination that he will be the prime target of the campaign, and when he is, it will play very badly for him in the South and midwest. Being denounced by your own church never looks good. I don't think the effects will be limited to Catholics. I believe it will be used against him to paint him as a sinner and anti-religion in general.

If the Church takes a hard enough line on it, it could even hurt him significantly enough with the heavily Catholic population in the Northeast.

And most importantly, it will definately hurt him with the crucial latino vote.

[Le Taz Hot]

22. Nor should he

No church gets a say in our governance -- at least that's the way it's supposed to be. Further, when, where, how and if he worships is his business.

[janx]

8. So the Catholic Bishops are going to interject themselves

directly into U.S. politics and elections?

[mrgorth]

20. Yes

and it's getting worse. The RC Church, like the GOP, has been taken over by the conservative wing, esp. here in the states. They are going to get political, very much so. I'm glad to hear about how Clark is handling it. FYI, Kerry is RC, Dean is a Congregationalist (similar to Lutherans I think) though Dean will be painted as an athiest.

[RBHam]

9. Kucinich is Catholic...

But, then again, the Catholic Church has a long history of endorsing some real sick fucks.

Charlemagne, Philip "le Bel" IV, Napolean, Hitler...

I'd rather not their endorsement.

It's sad to see that Fat Tony Scalia's wealthy and powerful bigoted buddies at Opus Dei have more clout in the US than the more tolerant strain of Catholicism exhibited by the majority of Catholic citizens.

[daria_g]

11. Here's a hint..

http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=545

Strong Moral Leadership is not always Popular
12/3/2003 - 6:00 AM PST

by Raymond L. Flynn

When the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops held its annual meeting in Washington, D.C. recently, one of the important issues discussed was what to do about Catholic elected officials who consistently vote against their Church on fundamental moral and political issues. This is especially embarrassing to Church leaders who preach one thing, then see that Catholic politicians often vote the opposite. The bishops discussed what measures, if any, they should take to help make these Catholic political leaders more accountable and understanding of the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church.

Whether it is the issue of abortion, homosexual marriages or school vouchers, these issues cause confusion and division between Catholic teachings and Catholic politicians. This same division also exists between Church doctrine and the practice of lay Catholics. The big difference, however, is that the former is usually played out in the political arena, whereas the latter is confined to the inner conscience of the individual.

[newyawker99]

23. Hi daria_g!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[HuckleB]

14. The Bishops are also against Bush's war, Bush's tax cuts, etc... etc...

this is a non-issue.

[sandnsea]

7. Rove on Kerry

That's been going on for months.

Either Dean can take it and continue to win, or he can't. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Better to find out who can take the heat now than later.

[quaker bill]

13. So far

It seems Dean can take it and actually thrive on it.

[dsc]

17. Rove is no fool

Bush should be about as popular as the plague about now but he has around 50% approval. This dispite ruining the economy, embroiling us in a quagmire, and being corrupt. Rove is no slouch.

[JNelson6563]

21. I marvel at it Kheph

How they quiver in fear! Shamefull really.

I know Rove is a student of Machiavelli. I was re-reading some Machiavelli yesterday and it became all the more apparent to me that Rove really is a Mayberry Machiavelli. He has repeatedly demonstrated an utter lack of foresight that Machiavelli was master of. It's like he read the dirty tricks parts and overlooked long term strategy and the need for different strategies for different situations. In fact, the whole point of strategy beyond tomorrow seems to have been lost on this pathetic wannabe all these DUers are hiding behind the couch from.

No fear here. Bring it I say. Many on the left have wised up to their (now) obvious weaknesses. Those you speak of here are still convinced he has none.

Julie