Republicans pollsters/insiders fear Dean will beat Bush...

[mzmolly]

"Howard Dean is not to be dismissed.
He is a serious candidate who will most certainly give George Bush a run for his money next year."

...

"Washington Republicans, including President Bush’s adviser Karl Rove, are said to be pleased by Dean’s success. They believe that Dean offers shades of Michael Dukakis and George McGovern.

But Dean is neither. For one thing, the diminutive candidate makes a powerful impression on TV. Unlike Dukakis, who was cold and uninspiring, Dean is personable and persuasive. He impresses even me."

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/11/9/160014.shtml

"Howard Dean can win because he believes in what he is saying, because he can semi-legitimately spin his record as governor into one of fiscal conservatism, and because he comes across as if he actually cares about people . . ." they wrote, continuing a bit later: "The difference between Howard Dean and the rest of the Democratic candidates is that Dean comes across as a true believer to the base but he will not appear threatening to folks in the middle."

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/david_reinhard/index.ssf?/base/editorial/106829671744920.xml

[TrueAmerican]

1. Didn't we hear "Mondale can win" in Minnesota

Look what happened.

[mzmolly]

2. I didn't hear that from Republicans...

:hi:

[salin]

6. it was so oft repeated in the... couple of weeks of the election

:eyes:

[mzmolly]

9. Mondale ran on a bad economy and was blamed for it...

Today is a different day, and Dean can win and will win in 2004!

[Hope4]

3. None of the other dems will have to face

generals that americans love and respect saying that clark was fired and is not worthy of being cinc. Clark has that major problem.

[mzmolly]

5. Very true.. also the Bushies have full access to Clarks military records.

I'm sure they can dish if they wish.

[Julien Sorel]

11. Clark has released his military records.

Nothing to 'dish.' Amazing, how the first line of defence for the Deanites is to attack Clark. What will you say in response to Bush's attacks?

'Yes, But Wesley Clark is a war criminal!'

'Yes, but Kerry voted for the IWR!'

'Yes, but look at Gephardt's eyebrows!'


Watching Bush dismantle you people will be depressing, but all but inevitable. It would nearly make it worth it to come hear to read you people whining about the lies, and raging against the 'sheeple' for not buying your non-arguments.

[Melodybe]

14. I haven't said a word about Clark, in fact I like him! Divide and conquer

that is how thell's get us. Keep doing exactly what Rove wants, fascism isn't that bad.

[tsipple]

17. Re: Matching Funds

Honest question: How is any candidate, including Clark, who is handicapped by spending limits until July, 2004, possibly electable?

[mzmolly]

18. Clarks military records are controversial as you 'may' know?

However, Dean supporters are not running around here saying "clark can't win" now are we?

[mikehiggins]

12. Not so much of a problem as you might think

There are a lot of people in the world that don't like a lot of people in the world.

Heard from General Shelton lately? No, we didn't have him whacked or anything, nothing like that.

All we have is a repeated quote being repeated over and over again.

Did you have some other general in mind that people love and respect? Schwartzkopf? His boss liked Clark, and put it in writing (that was Colin Powell, by the way). Shelton and Cohen gave Clark medals when he retired. So did a lot of other people, like the British and the French. And Clark can point to a million and a half living people who beleive they are alive today because of him.

Shelton, Ralston, Cohen, Schwartzcoff, the guy who thought Clark was a "perfumed prince" (oh, forget that one--he rescinded that remark and is now supporting Clark). Wrap them all up into a ball, label it jealous rivals and roll it out onto the landing strip. See what happens. The average American can understand jealousy and envy; they know what it means to be better than your boss, and prove it. Most of us know we are better at our jobs than our bosses ever were, and most of us know what happens when we show them up.

Score: Clark becomes even more "one of the guys just like us" than he already appears.

Bill Clinton was accused of serial infidelity AND it was true! That was supposed to kill his campaign and any chances for election.

Strangely enough, it didn't work for that President Bush either.

You see, lies are dangerous tools. You don't want to spread a lie that makes your target look even better than when you started.

[jeter]

4. Yes exactly

This "can win" or "can't win" argument is better directed to you Clark supporters. Everyone thought Mondale WOULD win. He was a long-time Senator. Popular in the state. He lost.

Wellstone, who on the surface most people would have said couldn't win. Would have.

[RBHam]

7. Come on Dems, get on board

Dean is your only chance of taking your country back.
He's a fighter and he won't take the Repug bullshit.

[blm]

24. You're kidding right? There's no way you believe this.

You know DAMN well no internal GOP poll that showed Dean wins would see the light of day.

The reason many in the DNC don't want Dean is because internal state polls show he's a liability for the rest of the ticket in competitive districts.

[truthspeaker]

43. nope

I'm a Dean supporter, but even I don't think he's our ONLY chance. Speaking like that to other Democrats is counterproductive.

[mzmolly]

8. BTW, here is link worth bookmarking from Republican Pollsters...

http://www.moore-info.com/Poll_Updates/2004%20Election%20%20Why%20Dean%20can%20win%20Sept%2003.htm

"A recent article by David Brooks left readers with the distinct impression that Republican pollsters are all of the opinion that Howard Dean cannot possibly beat George Bush. We regret that he didn’t check with us first, as it is our belief that Dean has the potential to be a formidable candidate who could give the President a very difficult race.

The conventional wisdom that has some Republicans giddy about a potential Dean candidacy is not only misguided, it is counterproductive. Writing off a candidate like Dean by selectively sorting statistical gobble-de-gook and mixing it into a broth of “empirical” sociological evidence ignores the political realities of our time."

Time to put the Dean can't win shit to rest.

[mzmolly]

10. Keep it kicked Dean supporters...

:kick:

[Skwmom]

13. Yeah right. That's why they've been building

up HO HO for so long.

[mzmolly]

15. Yea...

:eyes:

:tinfoilhat:

[frank frankly]

16. HO HO?

how unfortunate to read this from someone here at DU.

[Cha]

22. this is only

status quo from certain posters. Thankfully, not everyone is so ABDJHS!

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

20. Hee hee...

Night all :boring: :hi:

[Cha]

25. I second that "Hee Hee"!

[PVnRT]

40. Do you ever say anything worth listening to?

Every post of yours on DU is nothing more than a one-line attack. Tell us, what do you like about your candidate?:

[blm]

21. If internal GOP polls say Dean can beat Bush, we would NEVER hear about it

No way. No day. They don't play dat way.

[mzmolly]

23. You'd have to read the thread/articles....

starting with this group of Republican pollsters...

http://www.moore-info.com/index.html

http://www.moore-info.com/Poll_Updates/2004%20Election%20%20Why%20Dean%20can%20win%20Sept%2003.htm

[blm]

27. classic disinfo...

.

[mzmolly]

29. Is that the best you got BLM, you hadn't even time to read it

*sheesh* LOL

[RBHam]

28. Right

The GOP "insiders" are constantly misplacing their talking point notes. They don't care, because they know the Corporate media will cover for them.

[w13rd0]

26. Just got stopped outside by neighbor...

...he's a lawyer in a section of Saint Louis metropolitan area referred to as "Talent Town", as they came out heavily to support Jim Talent (R-Mo) for Senate. He's now surrounded by former Bush supporters who are very unhappy with him, lotta kids deployed overseas. Reagan democrats, who time and again, are responding in a positive way to Dean. These are your classic conservative/moderate types. Turned off by over the top religious extremism, not happy with military adventurism. And the fact that they don't like Dick Gephardt, who has gone after Dean, doesn't hurt.

Dean CAN and WILL win. We'll make it happen. Bush is like a drunken cowboy, pissing off the world. And most of the US didn't vote for the bastard. Jobs, health care, a foreign policy consistent with American values. We must be aggressive in framing the debate. Don't let Rove do it, because he's a frickin liar.

[DemCam]

31. But Rove lies so well

Most of the US didn't vote for him...but then most of the US didn't vote Dem either.

Otherwise, it was a deadheat that required thievery.

I live with a Republican and he daily makes me aware of my foolish dream.

We cannot slide into neverneverland again. So keep workin'

[PVnRT]

41. Giving up already?

n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

47. Love your spirit and attitude!

"Dean CAN and WILL win. We'll make it happen."

We need that kind of talk around here. Thanks!:yourock:

[Zomby Woof]

30. what I want to know

If Bush would happen to wallop Dean in the election, who are the Dean people going to blame?

[mzmolly]

32. What a ridiculous question..

right back at ya?

[Zomby Woof]

34. no, it's valid

The way I see the Dean people carry on about "Rove operatives" and "memes" just for MILD critiques of him, I can very well see a blame-fest occurring if things don't go your way.

The same phenomenom surfaces on DU all the time. It started with the Nader/Dem/Green flameblames, the 2002 lost election arguments, and it could very well happen with the Dean contingent if he doesn't get the nomination, or loses the election.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

36. don't blame the left, blame the Libertarians

I wash my hands of the whole affair :bounce:

[mzmolly]

39. What I want to know is if Bush should happen to wallop any fing Dem

who the 'fing dem' people are going to blame? PUHLEEZE. Your question is bogus.

[Zomby Woof]

49. it's not bogus

Someone last night - a very zealous Dean supporter - posted a thread assigning the blame already! He must have read my post, or I was just prescient, as usual.

[PVnRT]

42. Who are the Clark people going to blame?

Who are the Kerry people going to blame?

Both of those are valid questions too, yet it's somehow assumed only the Dean supporters are the ones who will raise hell about losing.

[Zomby Woof]

50. oh, they won't be alone

Knowing DU like we do, every camp will have its share of finger-pointing and messiness if they do not win the nomination and/or election. The media will be everyone's culprit, as you can guess, and there will probably be other scapegoats as well.

I know you like Dean, but you also don't fall under this category of poster I refer to. You don't post flamebait, and you despise the "meme" term as much as I do. You also don't go around accusing people of being Rove trolls.

But facts are facts. Many (not all, and not even most) Dean supporters on DU, are very zealous in their support of him, and one already proved my point by posting a blame thread last night. I do not know if it was a reaction to my post or not, but there it was. I stayed out of it.

So no, I don't "assume" ONLY Dean supporters will raise hell. But with the sense of entitlement and sensitivity of criticism of him many (again, not all, and not even most) display, I am making what you, as a sports fan, would call a "safe bet". :-)

First payoff came last night.

[John_H]

33. That's why they have their in-the-pocket media operatives

trying to help, right?

[retyred]

35. Republicans pollsters/insiders fear Dean will beat Bush...?

Pssst! Pass it on to every democrat you meet!



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[bpilgrim]

37. bingo

give'em HELL Dr. Dean :bounce:

peace

[mzmolly]

38. *

:kick:

[Padraig18]

44. Bill Schneider on CNN said the exact same thing yesterday.

He said that his operatives and insiders inside the GOP fear Dean, because they can't get a handle on him; they told him that he and Clark are the ONLY two Democratic candidates they are concerned about, because both significantly erode independent support for the GOP.

[Hep]

45. We don't even need these arguments

Anyone who isn't moved by the scope of the Dean campaign has no idea of the scope of the Dean campaign.

[bushisanidiot]

46. I Suggest We IGNORE Right Wing Media All Together. It's Propaganda

and nothing more. what's black is white. what's white is black. who the hell knows what stupid chess game rove is trying to play. i say we ignore them and let them waste their time hoping nader or senator clinton join the race.

[w4rma]

48. "Dean’s appeal is closer to Ronald Reagan’s than any other Democrat today"

TO: Moore Information Clients & Friends

FROM: Hans Kaiser & Bob Moore

RE: Election 2004: Why Dean Can Win, September 2003

A recent article by David Brooks left readers with the distinct impression that Republican pollsters are all of the opinion that Howard Dean cannot possibly beat George Bush. We regret that he didn’t check with us first, as it is our belief that Dean has the potential to be a formidable candidate who could give the President a very difficult race.

The conventional wisdom that has some Republicans giddy about a potential Dean candidacy is not only misguided, it is counterproductive. Writing off a candidate like Dean by selectively sorting statistical gobble-de-gook and mixing it into a broth of “empirical” sociological evidence ignores the political realities of our time.
…
The difference between Howard Dean and the rest of the Democrat candidates is that Dean comes across as a true believer to the base but he will not appear threatening to folks in the middle. More than any other candidate in the field, he will be able to present himself as one who cares about people (doctor), who balances budgets (governor), and who appears well grounded while looking presidential. To be sure, he doesn’t look that way to the GOP base, but that has no bearing on the election, because they will never vote for him anyway. He can appeal to the middle and Republicans can ignore his candidacy at our peril. We are whistling past the graveyard if we think Howard Dean will be a pushover.

Howard Dean’s appeal is closer to Ronald Reagan’s than any other Democrat running today. Granted, that’s not saying much with this field, but there are similarities here. The Democrat party used to chuckle about Reagan and his gaffes which they believed would marginalize him to the far right dustbin of history. But when his opponents tried to attack him for some of his more outlandish statements, the folks in the middle simply ignored them. Voters in the middle looked to the bigger picture where they saw a man of conviction who cared about them and had solutions for their problems. Howard Dean has the potential to offer a similar type candidacy.
…
http://www.moore-info.com/Poll_Updates/2004%20Election%20%20Why%20Dean%20can%20win%20Sept%2003.htm
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/david_reinhard/index.ssf?/base/editorial/106829671744920.xml
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=709103