Where are all the great thinkers, scientists and activists?

[JailBush]

Stephen Gould, Jacques Cousteau and Carl Sagan were among the greatest thinkers and champions of the truth of our time. Cousteau ruled the seas, while Sagan took us on journeys to distant galaxies. Gould told us how we came to be here, one of Nature's lucky quirks molded by African savannas and the Ice Age.

All three are deceased. They were preceded by Aldo Leopold and Edward Abbey, who penned the books I considered my twin bibles as I was growing up - "A Sand County Almanac" and "Desert Solitaire." Along with Rachel Carson - also deceased - Leopold was one of the great voices for the enviroment, in part because he was one of the very few Americans who have seen the green fire in a wolf's eyes die.

Abbey was a backcountry philosopher and firebrand who preached an environmental radicalism that most of today's sheeple probably couldn't understand.

Paleontologist Richard Leakey and primatologist Jane Goodall are still around and are among the few to dabble in politics; Leakey got elected to Kenya's parliament, and Goodall recently earned some press when she blasted George W. Bush. The other famous primatologist, Diane Fossey, was killed several years ago.

So who speaks for the land and sea and wild creatures today? I'm not aware of any well known individual who's revered as the global warming expert or prophet of atomospheric reform.

Republicans bash scientists and thinkers as mercilessly as they do the French and Canadians. Democrats generally follow Republicans' lead. The Green Party has made a mockery of its idol, Chief Sealth.

Farley Mowat, John Muir, George Schaller, John Denver - most are deceased or apparently silenced. Stewart Udall is getting along in years.

Who will speak for our natural heritage and future with authority and passion? Have we entered the ultimate Silent Spring?

[Bozita]

1. ummm, they're packing

not likely to remain in lieu of the current definitions of "free speech" and "science."

The race to the bottom continues.

[salinen]

3. Republicans bash scientists and thinkers as mercilessly as they do the Fre

One must wonder why this is so. To propagandize the learned people of science is very telling as to what we are fighting against. It illustrates the paradox of conservative non-think. They love the toys provided by science, and condemn the scientist as having agendas. I've only come up with the theory that people who have a difficult time understanding the complexities of the universe, attack out of fear of confusion. The paranoia of self doubt.

[loudnclear]

35. They are all making too much money from the corporations they work for

to be concerned with democratic ideals. Their only concern in making more money and gaining more and more tax breaks.

[KoKo]

2. Great Post! I've wondered that myself over and over. Why aren't there

new voices with the stature of those you mention out there today.

I honestly don't know anyone who cares about the environment in my circle of friends nor amongst the youth of today that I'm around. But, I give to every Environmental Organization I can, and talk about it, even when people don't want to listen. And, I remember when there was such a different atmosphere in the country, when all those folks were active.

Maybe it's our computer age and the new suburbanization replacing the rural/agricultural way most of those folks grew up. Although Carl Sagan and a few others wouldn't qualify as growing up rural.

But, perhaps we are more "indoor" oriented than we were, and don't really appreciate or feel tied to our Earth and the loveliness and wonder it gives.

Someone much more insightful,will post here, hopefully. It's all I've been able to come up with, in my thoughts and worries about it.

[JailBush]

5. Thanks for caring, but I'd be careful about "giving to every

environmental organization I can." I think many, if not most (possibly all the big ones), have been infiltrated by corporations. The Nature Conservancy received a blast of bad press not too long ago for selling out, and I'm really not aware of any environmental groups that are really blasting George W. Bush.

I did a brief survey of the environmental movement here in Seattle, and was shocked: There is none! The Green Party of Seattle is a disgrace to Chief Seattle (Sealth), and the League of Conservation Voters is a sham.

I think it's time to build a new foundation - on solid bedrock.

[KoKo]

7. Earth Justice, and Sierra Club. I give to EJ's Legal Fund. Also Nature

Conservancy is okay, and I give to them, although I'm aware of the report you're talking about. I still believe in what they do.

And, the National Wildlife Federation. I stopped giving to World Wildlife Fund. And the Humane Society.

[KoKo]

8. BTW Sierra and Earth Justice both have lawsuits against Bush, plus they

managed to get the Navy to put a hold on their new Sonar testing. They are still fighting that one. I am proud of what they do. Google them and you will see that indeed they have challenged Bush and still are.

[KoKo]

30. Here's what "Natural Resources Defense Council" is Accomplishing!

And, check out their California Branch. I also give and support them.

Here's from an alert I recently received from them. No "copyright" problems with this, Mods because they want it "passed along."

-----------------
==========================
Updates on Previous Alerts
==========================

1. ENERGY BILL
In the last several months, you've sent more than 100,000 messages urging
Congress to defeat the environmentally and economically harmful energy bill,
which was opposed by conservation groups, unions and consumer groups for
proposing to give billions of taxpayer dollars to polluting industries and
failing to strengthen U.S. energy security. Many of you in states with
crucial "swing" senators even made critical calls to your senator's office in
the hours leading up to the vote. Your dedication and persistence seem to have
paid off! (At least for now.) On Friday, the bill's supporters fell two Senate
votes short of forcing an end to debate on the bill as a bipartisan coalition
came together to block a final vote until some of the bill's many flaws were
addressed. This is a huge victory for the environment, but it's by no means
permanent. Republican leaders in the House and Senate have vowed to hold
another vote on the bill when Congress returns from its holiday recess in
January, and will be arm-twisting furiously in the meantime to attempt to
persuade two senators to change their votes. We'll need you to contact your
senators again in January, but meanwhile, a hearty Thank You! to everyone who
contacted your senators about this awful bill and helped achieve such an
important win.

2. FOREST PROTECTIONS
As we noted in our last edition, the House and Senate were working out
differences between their two different versions of the Bush administration's
misleadingly named "Healthy Forests Initiative." Negotiators reached a
compromise on a final bill, which the House and Senate passed on November 21
(and President Bush is expected to sign). The bill undermines National
Environmental Policy Act and other environmental protections and reduces public
input for proposed logging projects, which will lead to more damaging logging
operations. To make matters worse, the bill doesn't even require agencies to
undertake proven methods to protect homes and communities from fire risks. NRDC
will be working with local groups to closely monitor implementation of these
new provisions and challenge the most damaging activities when appropriate. In
the meantime, thanks to the many thousands of you who spoke out throughout the
year against this harmful administration policy.

========================
Subscription Information
========================

NRDC distributes three bulletins by email: the CALIFORNIA ACTIVIST NETWORK
ACTION ALERT, EARTH ACTION, and LEGISLATIVE WATCH. To subscribe to any or all
of them, go to: http://www.nrdcaction.org/join/subscribe.asp

[KoKo]

33. And, check out your local "Sierra Club" Chapter if you want to get active.

Their chapters have Social Activities and Action Committees. Or, you can participate through their website in "Web Activism."

http://whistler.sierraclub.org/action/actionindex.jsp

[wtmusic]

4. excellent point

science has taken a back seat to pseudomorality, as it happens to dampen the spirits of the faithful.

[KFC]

6. Edith Efron

Efron - "The Apocalyptics" A classic text demonstrating that, according to the linear-dose theory (rats, etc..), virtually anything can cause cancer. Sand, coffee, human hormones...

A landmark book that is on the shelf of all toxicologists and has stood the test of time.

Unlike "Silent Spring", which is now considered a novel.

[KoKo]

9. Right, and banning DDT was a mistake.

sigh....

[opihimoimoi]

10. The New Guard for all Humanity

Michael Moore

Al Franken

Brian Greene( String guy)

Stephan Hawking

Walter Cronkite

John Kenneth Galbraith

Arthur Keostler(wrote Janus)deceased

The Dem Candidates, all nine

The Clintons both

and, us DUers

[Bozita]

11. You forgot Jimmy Carter, Noam Chomsky, Studs Terkel, Gore Vidal, ...

... Paul Krugman, Mollie Ivins, and ...

[wtmusic]

13. Walter Cronkite in the New Guard?

There is a huge schism in public awareness between the political pundits you list like Moore and Franken, and people like Brian Greene and Stephen Hawking.

If you don't tell jokes nowadays you're just not worthy of media attention...

[pmbryant]

19. Greene and Hawking?

Do they speak out on public policy issues? If so, I've missed it.
:shrug:

I'm afraid their influence is confined to the world of science (or mathematics in Greene's case).

--Peter

[KFC]

12. Absolutely not. But understand that the "dose makes the poison"

Certain levels of DDT are harmful, low levels are not.

Thinking that any dose of a chemical is harmful is ridiculous. High doses of water or silica can kill you.

I run into this all of the time. Someone finds 5 ppm of arsenic in the soil and now all of the children are in mortal danger. The natural level of As around here is 5-20 ppm. There have been no widespread As deaths reported in the last two centuries. Beyond deliberate poisioning, none.

Your hysteria is as bogus as Assskroft's.

[KoKo]

27. Message removed by poster.

[KoKo]

28. Wow...another post in GD which has attracted the usual, thoughtful one-

line discussion. I'm really impressed!

[KoKo]

32. Message Moved

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. Publishing articles in Professional Journals that are not read by...

most Americans. Dont be so pessimistic. There are millions of progressive thinking, creative, cutting edge scholars and scientists out there. Ever watch Animal Planet? Ya think Steve the Croc Hunter and Jeff Corwin are just nimrods? It seems to me they are educating the public about the natural world in a way that would make Mr. Cousteau proud. And what about Michael Shermer? (www.skeptic.com) or James Randi? (www.randi.org) There are too many to count and admittedly, most are unknown but give them a chance. There is no shortage of science. Knowledge begets knowledge. It is a mathematical progression.

:::rubs hands::: Soon, I'll get my air car that folds into a briefcase!
HEY!!! IT COULD HAPPEN!!!!

[BeFree]

15. Abbey, Leopold

How can anyone match those two?
For any of ya'll out there looking for a base of knowledge about this "Little Blue Ball Spinning in Space" you can do no better than these two authors.

Thanks, JB, for bringing this up.

[mb7588a]

16. Croc-Hunter? Stephen Hawking? WillPitt? (nt)

[Ediacara]

17. Dawkins may be taking over the reigns from Gould

And he's far more outspoken than Gould ever was.

Now was Gould right about paleontology?..... that's another conversation, preferably over a bottle of wine :-)

[pmbryant]

20. Please tell us more about Dawkins

I'm not familiar with him.

:dunce:

Thanks,
Peter

[Ediacara]

22. He has written several books on natural selection

and is an outspoken liberal and atheist. He wrote a particularly scathing editorial concerning all religious fundimentalists just after 9-11, and is, well, outspoken :-)

I bet you are familiar with him, but as it's X:30 at night, you're just not remembering :-)

[Kinkistyle]

25. Called Shrub an "unelected and deeply stupid little oil-spiv"

Dawkins is great. From this article in the Guardian: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,9174,770408,00.html

"Richard Dawkins, an Oxford science don, suggested Mr Bush was just as much of a danger to world peace as Saddam Hussein, adding: 'It would be a tragedy if Tony Blair were to be brought down through playing poodle to this unelected and deeply stupid little oil-spiv.'"

[Ediacara]

26. I had that as my DU sig line for a while

it was GREAT!

[JanMichael]

34. I met Dawkins last year. Interesting guy.

Very outspoken on politics as well as mythology and other "weird ideas".

Stephen Pinker may be up to the challenge too.

[David Zephyr]

18. Where Are They? On Guantanamo in Rehab.

Nice thread.

[Must_B_Free]

21. Lee Scratch Perry, Bob Marley, John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix

[Lexingtonian]

23. 'realism' and cultural change

The realism part is that these days most environmental destruction has to do with overpopulation. It used to be that environmental destruction had more to do with the easiest and cheapest way to get at some resource that was plentiful; that is rarely the case these days. Logging companies and fisheries and mining consortiums and subsistence farmers just don't have new grounds to go anymore to where they will do lesser damage. Everything has seemingly become a Need, not mere chosen option among several.

The cultural change part is that most cultures no longer have a caste or subgroup that is accepted as representing the social conscience of the people involved. Generally the hegemon groups are in some breakdown but the natives slowly breaking out of the subjugation systems aren't effectively taking over stewardship of the land and the concerns surrounding it, and are on the whole more occupied with psychosocial needs- gaining wealth (children always as first token), building up the social order in a new way, and altering historical injustices. The one-time hegemons see their social role lost but opportunity beckoning in the diminished resistance to exploiting of the residual wealth of each country, and their bitterness at losing their preeminence makes them vicious.

The thoughtful de facto leaders see nothing to be won in that situation. See Al Gore talking about the Kyoto Treaty. Everything they say will be claimed to be Impossible Ideal, or incompatible with Needs, and the demonstrating masses needed to impress the fact of sufficient support and willing sacrifice of material comfort never form.

Jane Goodall is losing her Gombe reserve chimpanzees to meat-selling poachers and the habitat to encroaching subsistence farmers. The Alaskan fisheries are wiping out the whole food chain along the Bering Sea. The Japanese and Soviets nearly wiped out the whales, and they are very slow to recover if at all. Brazil is deforesting at an amazing clip, as is Indonesia. It is all well known- and accepted.

I go back to the Southwest every few years and find only more exurb sprawl in the high desert, asphalt and sodium lamp worker ghettos invading and engulfing the arroyos and yuccas and windswept valleys where I remember the wildflowers and coyotes under moonlight and every moment seemed, at times, at some level spiritual experience. How ironic that the people who claim to love wild things and places are these days those who most easily consent to their destruction.

[Kinkistyle]

24. They are all in Europe.

The great thinkers of this world are no longer in the U.S. which used to be a place for refugee geniuses to escape their oppressive home countries (like Albert Einstein).

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. David Attenborough

has taught more Britons (at least) about biology and the environment than anyone in the last 50 years. He usually doesn't do opinions, but he did do a 3 part series 'State of the Planet' in 2000. Well worth seeing if you get the chance.

An interview about it: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2465/3_31/73040731/p1/article.jhtml?term=

[wildwww2]

31. Scared shitless of being offed by the BFEE! And that is no lie.

I was thinking about this the other day. People are scared. Bu$h Inc. are a bunch of scary mother hubbards and then some.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President