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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 11:04 PM
Original message
The So-Called Civil War Between Gore & Clinton Seen A Month Ago
Edited on Wed Dec-10-03 11:09 PM by David Zephyr
Al Gore is right and Hillary is wrong: The Democratic Party does need re-making. Within in hours of the news of Gore's pending endorsement of Howard Dean, I also questioned how long it would be before Clinton would weigh in against it. Someone here at the DU posted it would only be minutes.

Is Bill Clinton so jealous that he must still be the center of attention? Compare the actions of the two men for the last two years as the nation slid into war, depression and fascism and then ask yourself which one showed leadership?

I knew this was going to happen which is why I wrote this November 13th. I made my choice then---and so did many of you here at the DU.

Here's the text of my thread. I have provided the link which has some interesting responses.
------------------------------------

Al Gore, Not Bill Clinton, Now Leads the Democratic Party

Edited on Thu Nov-13-03 04:20 PM by David Zephyr

Since the inauguration of a new President and Vice President in January of 2001, we have had ample time to watch and weigh both the actions and speech of the two Democrats who had held those offices from 1992 to 2001. And now, here we are, nearly three years after George Bush and Dick Cheney took the helm of the nation and there has been a surprising development from their predecessors---it has been Albert Gore, and not Bill Clinton, who has provided the most consistent voice against the radical right wing agenda by the Republicans.

Albert Gore, both before and after making his decision not to seek the Presidency in 2004, refused to simply remain silent as the Bush Administration steered their new, extremist direction for our country. Since January of 2001, Gore has not cowered from taking on the Executive Branch over their shameful dismissal of the Kyoto Accord to reduce global greenhouse gases. Gore pilloried this White House for their unforgivable neglect in dealing with the Israeli/Palestinian for nearly a year until it erupted into the desperate situation we now all know. It was Al Gore, not Bill Clinton, who spoke out to keep the public’s indignation against corporate corruption alive as the media and the government quickly colluded to quiet-down the national uproar after the Enron scandal---and it was Al Gore who was attacked by his own Vice Presidential running mate, Senator Joseph Lieberman, for having done so.

Lest we forget, it was Gore, an anti-war Vietnam Veteran, who provided one of the precious few voices against Bush’s march to War with Iraq when he spoke out in September of 2002 at the Commonwealth Club of San Francisco. In contrast to the majority of his own Party who were signing up to appease Bush’s thirst for war, Gore boldly spoke the truth and charged that “President George W. Bush is pushing for a vote in this Congress immediately before the election.”

This past summer, when President Bush was desperately sinking in a quagmire of his own making after being exposed for intentionally misleading and scaring the American public during his State of the Union Address by falsely claiming that Hussein had sought uranium from Africa, who would have ever guessed that the person to rescue Bush would be none other than Bill Clinton? Clinton, while chatting away with talking head Larry King and his buddy Bob Dole, let Bush off the hook with “"You know, everybody makes mistakes when they are president." Clinton, in a forgiving and jovial mood continued, "I mean, you can't make as many calls as you have to make without messing up once in awhile. The thing we ought to be focused on is what is the right thing to do now. That's what I think."

Well, the winner of the 2000 Presidential Election by over 540,000 votes still feels differently about Bush’s deceit during that national speech. Gore says that Bush intentionally gave “false impressions” in a calculated attempt to build support for his war with Iraq and Gore still says that it was “dead wrong” to have done so.

Last week, again Al Gore, who has consistently questioned the so-called Patriot Act, stepped to the forefront of the national forum and denounced the Act to the great discomfiture of members of his own Party. Listen to Al Gore, not Bill Clinton (whose wife voted for this un-American legislation), speaking about the Patriot Act: “Where civil liberties are concerned, they (the Bush Administration) have taken us much farther down the road to an intrusive, 'Big Brother'-style government — toward the dangers prophesized by George Orwell in his book '1984' — than anyone ever thought would have been possible in the United States."

Further, only days after Democratic Senator Joseph Biden was quoted by the Washington Times (with great glee) as calling the Patriot Act a “good-faith effort” and stated that criticism of the it “was overblown,” Al Gore courageously said just the opposite as he told an enthusiastic crowd of 3,000 that filled DAR Constitution Hall the following: “I believe that the Patriot Act has turned out to be, on balance, a terrible mistake, and that it became a kind of Tonkin Gulf Resolution conferring Congress' blessing for this president's assault on civil liberties."

Last night I thought back to a very sad day on December 13, 2000 after the long, drawn out battle in Florida for the electors that so many of us believed rightfully belonged to Albert Gore. Then, in his concession speech---after the U.S. Supreme Court had given the election his opponent---Al Gore spoke to the nation and said, “As for the battle that ends tonight, I do believe as my father once said, that no matter how hard the loss, defeat might serve as well as victory to shape the soul and let the glory out.”

The loss that tore so many of us up, that ripped out our very souls and psyches, that stripped away what little innocence many of us still had, has had a wonderful and unintended consequence, hasn’t it? Our nation truly now has a liberated leader who no longer needs worry about political liabilities should he speak to truth when it is needed. Victory springs from defeat and life from death. “Verily, verily, I say unto you, except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone, but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit" (John 12:24)

Al Gore has indeed let “the glory out” and we are a fortunate people for it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=706564
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Hope4 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Should it not be we the people lead the party?
I was for dean and the last few days has me looking at DK. Something smells and I do not like what I am feeling.

Whoever posted the thread on the poll when Clinton first ran really woke me up. I forgot what trouble he was in at this time of the year. He was not much higher in the polls in NH then DK. He also got tons of bad press but he went on to win.

NH voters do not like to be told what to do and these other candidates should really tell them what is going on with their state.

Maybe someone can convince me I am wrong but something is not right to me.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. By all means hang in there for DK
what do you have to lose?

I have a good feeling about Dean, but go with your instincts. We'd all like to see a good horse race next month, maybe the early endorsement didn't sit well because it seemed to solidify things. Dean is no longer the underdog he was 6 months ago. It's noble to root for the underdog...doesn't mean Dean's a bad person, tho. Primaries should be all in good sport. People seem to forget that, tho.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Welcome to the DU. Kucinich is the Best of All Candidates.
Until the Party settles on a nominee in Boston, there exists a vacuum of leadership. We the people have not had a voice with the Democratic Party for nearly three years now with compromisers like Tom Daschle, Zell Miller and gang voting for wars, restribution of the national wealth to the most fortunate, the Patriot Act, Medicare "reform" and more.

Compare the actions and public words (or lack of them) from Bill Clinton and from Al Gore during this sorry period of failed leadership by the Democrats in Congress and ask youself whether Al is right in saying the Democratic Party must be made over or whether Hillary Clinton is right in saying the opposite.
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Hope4 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Thanks, seems like something is wrong
I get the feeling of two powerful camps trying to tell us what we should do and I do not like it. I was kind of for dean because they were attacking him.

I did like the way DK stood up last night. I wish someone would put Hillary and Al in their place. They are just one of us.

I do have a problem and please me if I am wrong, that it bothers me when people serve and work hard in the party for many years and then others are moved in over them when they want to go to higher positions. I still do not understand Clark. We have all these other good candidates who have served a long time and a few powerful men and the media want someone more like bush. Maybe it is time to let them have right wing bush and we have a left wing DK and duke it out.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. They're trying to unite the party.
There's nothing wrong with that. It has to be done if we're going to kick that clown out of office!

Have Democrats become so accustomed to living in holes that the second someone starts showing real leadership they're accused of "bossism"??????????????
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Maybe Democrats don't want to mindless zombie "dittoheads"
of the left and rush on in to help old Al out with his power play.

There is something wrong with that. NOBODY is going to succeed in getting me to abandon my judgement for the person I believe would make the best President of the United States. It's was one thing for Al to endorse Howard, quite another to tell us we should just give up our candidates and accept his coronation of Howard. That was patronistic, arrogant and insulting.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes, thanks for reposting that. Your observation is correct in many ways,
Edited on Wed Dec-10-03 11:43 PM by KoKo01
and I would almost go along with it totally, if I didn't believe that Clinton is doing what all former Presidents do and staying out of things as much as possible having to do with Shrub's actions. And, given he's a lightening rod for the RW what good would it do. His wife's a Senator, and he wants her to have the spotlight, and maybe he's enough of an "old school" Southern Gentleman that (except for his one appearance with the candidates in Iowa couple of months ago, where he gave a rousing speech praising the Democratic Party) he feels it's better he just stay out of it all.

There are many policies Clinton supported which have, imho, come home to roost and allowed Shrub to be where he is today. But, I still refuse to believe he is a Repug enabler. And, I'm certainly not a DLC/DNC supporter here on DU.

Your quote from John is heartening. On Edit: And the Democratic Party definitely needs a remake!


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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Clinton Sat By Quietly as the Republicans Ravaged the Nation
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 12:07 AM by David Zephyr
I did not say Clinton was a "Repug enabler", but compared to Gore's consistent voice against the war in Iraq, the Patriot Act, Enron and Corporate ripoffs (which Lieberman dismissed as "populism"), Clinton's silence speaks very loudly.


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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I totally agree about Gore being our voice! Sorry to sound so cranky!
I'm having a really bad "sick of Bush" day, and I get so tired of the Clinton bashing. I know you weren't "bashing" him. Maybe he's as controlling as many think. I just try to give him a little "room" now and then.

:-)'s David and Peace!
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. Beautiful.
"The loss that tore so many of us up, that ripped out our very souls and psyches, that stripped away what little innocence many of us still had, has had a wonderful and unintended consequence, hasn’t it? Our nation truly now has a liberated leader who no longer needs worry about political liabilities should he speak to truth when it is needed. Victory springs from defeat and life from death. 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone, but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit' (John 12:24) "

It's beautiful, and it's true.

Warm fuzzies.

Al Gore IS our new leader. Sorry, Clinton- you blew it.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. All About a Truly Decent Fellow.
Thanks, BullGooseLoony.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thank you David
Posts like this are why I appreciate you so much.

I am so proud of Gore and the things he has done and said in the last few years. I have always believed he was a finer person and a more visionary leader than Clinton. I have always admired Clintons manner and his abilty to stand up to the right without letting them see him sweat. However Gore cares more about right and wrong, what needs to be done and what is right for the country. I don't always agree with him but I always trust he is sincere and not motivated by self interest... but this is the Gore I have always seen, way before the 2000 election.

I think what might be ailing Clinton is not having Gore around to influence him.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. And Thank You, Cheswick.
I've learned a lot from you and am proud to say so.

Gore has proven to be a better man in my eyes. Nothing can change that. I'm glad you feel the same way.

It tears me up to know that he and Tipper are not in the White House. What a loss to the entire planet, huh?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. Very persuasive post David
I've been less than impressed with Clinton's yes man answers.

I think you know I am still torn on the war vote as I don't doubt this war would have happened anyway and the manner in which we were dragged into it kicking and screaming was at least PREDICTABLE as opposed to UNPREDICTABLE. Doesn't justify anything...it's just how I see it.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thank You, NSMA.
You and the dearest Cheswick, who you have privately praised to me, are two precious souls. God I love the both of you.

Just think: What if Al and Tipper had correctly moved into the White House in January 2001?
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
14. its pretty damn clear gore just passed the populist torch to dean
i have said for a long time that gore was gored by the dlc, corporate sponsors, and moderate democrats in the party, all who freaked out in the fall of 2000 when gore began to speak of a democatic party more responsive to the people it is supposed to help.

they did not lift a finger to support gore during the recount vote (except notably, the black congressional caucus and a few others). in 2001-2, when gore deepened his populist rhetoric and began to plans for a true grass roots movement that threatened to sweep out party regulars if it succeeded, they attacked gore vociferiously. as a result, he dropped plans to run in 2004.

when gore dropped out, the dlc types thought they had beaten off the forces of change in the party, and considered that such a force, without a leader would be inconsequential.

then howard dean appeared and.............

i fully expected gore to support dean, not entirely because of dean's political positions, but because of what his campaign was stirring up.

gore said as much when he stood next to dean this week.

al gore is looking at the long haul and i think that he believes that the only way to get this country back on track is to give power back to the people. dean's campaign is the best avenue to do this.

the best leaders dont lead, they show the people how to help themselves, in this al gore is a true leader.
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. you're always a great read, David
and you are dead-on right, especially about Clinton's comments on Bush....

I loved reading it again, thanks!
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. We Were Eating Dinner
with our nifty little TV snack trays in front of us --- as all dutiful Americans should -- and sat in shock as Bill Clinton gave Bush a pass for lying in the SOTU address to Larry King.

Thanks, frank frankly. :hi:
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bluedeminredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Hi David
I still remember your thread about the Al and Tipper "what if..." tale when the impending disaster that would become this band of thugs and criminals was just starting to gear up. I didn't want you to stop adding to the thread which was a heartbreaking fantasy that Al and Tipper had moved into the WH and saved our country.

You're right on this. Al has said what needed to be said from the beginning. He's shown more courage than any other Democrat when the whole GD party should be saying what he's saying about this administration!
He's a thoroughly decent man and I think the country is the first thing on his mind right now. After what the press corps and the pundits did to him in 2000, it take tremendous courage and patriotism to fight for his party and his country the way he is doing now.

Good to see you again
:loveya:
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Ah, Yes! And Hellllooo Bluedeminredstate! Welcome to the Gore Cult.
And I still remember that in our parallel universe you'd confessed that you were carrying Al's love child (ooops, that's supposed to be a secret, huh?).

I know you know that I agree with every word you wrote about Al Gore.

Here, have some of my Al Gore Cool-Aid. It's part of my new ABB line of flavored drinks.

The women here at DU are truly awesome!!!!

:loveya:
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
18. So right, David
:hi:
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Eloriel.
Thanks. :loveya:
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
20. Almost sounds Cultist....
Maybe I should join in...pass me a cup, what flavor Kool-Aid do you have anyway?

Not/Don't Think So, Sorry Al.....
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Hare Rama, Hare Rama
Well, what flavor do you want.

I have a lot of flavors here, but they are all ABB.

Peace.
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