Should Taiwan return itself to the Chinese mainland?

[La_Serpiente]

Why or why not? Just something I was thinking about.

[theivoryqueen]

1. Why? they are doing quite well alone....

and would the chinese rule them with as much acumen (!) as other territories? (thinking tibet.....)

[Gringo]

2. Hell no. They deserve real autonomy.

I realize that it's a delicate situation, But Bush was SO wrong to rebuff them like that. I was already very saddened when Macao and Hong Kong went back to China. The Chinese government has made some progress since Mao's day, but it's still a highly oppresive, murderous regime, and now they have a growing rich/poor divide, too. I favor constructive engagement with the Chinese government, promotion of democratic reform whenever possible, but we should also support Taiwan's right to self-determination.

[theivoryqueen]

5. well said

[Maple]

3. Yes

Taiwan invests billions in China now.

But it also costs them a fortune for this lost cause.

Help China in it's switchover to market economics.

Situation is a Cold War leftover.

[La_Serpiente]

9. That's what I have been thinking too

[Screaming Lord Byron]

4. If a majority want independence, they should have it.

That's pretty fundamental, I'd think.

[theivoryqueen]

7. apparently not fundamental enough

and in complete opposition to the Chinese governments concept of rule (tianemen square is still in my memory banks)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

8. Absolutely. China is still a one-party dictatorship.

Yet we happily trade with them.

[stopthegop]

13. so you support the embargo agaist Cuba? n/t

.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

14. That's what I was hinting at. We trade with China, but not Cuba.

It's either/or. The US can't ignore China, but can ignore Cuba. I most certainly do not support the embargo on Cuba.

[DjTj]

18. ...but putting that up to vote is taboo...

...right now in Taiwanese politics.

The Taiwanese people see China as a country moving towards more openness and free capitalism and I think a majority would like to see "one China" sometime in the future. But it's definitely true that a majority of Taiwanese voters would want to retain independence for now.

The China-Taiwan situation is not as simple as one distinct group of people that want independence from another country. The Taiwanese have been living under an autonomous government since 1949 and are used to the status quo of tense cross-strait relations and mandatory military service.

[rucky]

6. As far as China is concerned

they never left.

Taiwan's been doing just fine as an isolated pesudo-state & we need to continue our pledge to protect them. That's the only thing that's keeping the delicate balance. Unfortunately, * just tipped our hand.

[DeathvadeR]

10. It's not a matter of returning more than it is breaking free from.

The poor true taiwaneeze people were slaughtered just in much the same manner the American Indians were here. They are Chinese for the most part. But like alot of chinese people they want to end the idiotic rulers that are amognst them.

The human rights atrocities commited by the chinese government are outragous!!!!!

[DjTj]

17. When were the Taiwanese people slaughtered?

Maybe the Spanish and Dutch slaughtered some of the indigenous population in the 17th century, but I don't think the Chinese government ever slaughtered many Taiwanese...

The indigenous population has been outnumbered by ethnic Chinese since the end of the Ming Dynasty and China hasn't ever had very solid control over the island. The strongest outside government to control Taiwan was probably the Japanese at the beginning of the century. The current government is arguably the result of Chiang Kai-Shek's invasion of the island in 1949.

In any case, the current conflict has very little to do with the indigenous Taiwanese...

[bpilgrim]

11. Tawain should speak up for peace and democracy

peace

[BeFree]

12. Hell no..

If the People who live on Taiwan want to be free to establish a govt of their choosing then that is what we should support. If they decide by a democrtaic vote that they want to be absorbed into ChiComs then that is their option. For our pres to say anything other than that just goes to show how crooked and un-democratic he is.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

15. Chinese Communist re-acquisition of Taiwan vs. "Iraq Liberation"

What's interesting is how this "One China" policy polarizes Bush from his own "Iraqi Liberation" myth, which emerged shortly after the "Pre-Emptive Strike In the Case of WMD's Doctrine" yielded no "WMD's."

So Bush's stance is: Liberation is good for Iraqis because - well because we havent found a WMD and there's oil there - WHADDA COINCIDENCE! But the Taiwanese, and Chinese expatriots that flee to Taiwan? They can go back to living under the Chinese and forget about Liberty.

I think this is a very attackable region of Bush's political armor. Contradiction. Where is the "conservative", where is the "compassion", in Bush's whole-hearted agreement with Chinese re-claimation of Taiwan? It is a clear indication of inconsistency - which betrays his apparent Black-and-White persona. Just what we need.

[Spoon]

16. I think Bush said he wants to maintain status quo,

impling we would still defend Taiwan if China made a move. With that said, who here that defends Taiwans's right to independence would support open war with China to help them defend that right?

[NewJeffCT]

19. Yes

He did say that he wants to maintain the status quo, which will eventually lead to a showdown with China. Will the US stand up for Taiwan and her 20 million or so people against the threat of 1.3 billion Chinese and their 2 million man army? Or, will the US eventually figure it's not worth it to go to war over a nation that is halfway across the world and doesn't have oil and then back down?

[theboss]

20. You don't understand "One China"

Unless I missed something, One China does not state that Taiwan should be under Chi-Com control. It states that we do not support two Chinas and want reconciliation. It's always been presumed that reconciliation will take place on Taiwan's terms.

The policy simply does not have room for an officially "independent" Taiwan, even though that is pretty much what Taiwan is.

In law, we would call the whole Chinese policy a "legal fiction."

[DjTj]

23. Up until 1971...

"One China" meant that Taiwan represented the interests of the mainland.

When Nixon pulled the rug out from under the Taiwanese government, the "One China" policy really took a wacky turn, leaving Taiwan with no diplomatic representation and ostensibly giving China authority for claiming Taiwan as their territorry.

"One China" really just means that we only have one Chinese embassy, which since Nixon has been occupied by the Communists. "One China" doesn't technically even speak to the Taiwanese independence issue, but we have in the past pledged to protect Taiwan if invaded and we continue to sell arms to and trade with Taiwan.

[DjTj]

21. Taiwan hasn't been part of the Chinese mainland...

since 1895...except for I suppose 4 years between 1945 and 1949, but those years were all spent in a civil war on the mainland where the people of Taiwan weren't very involved.

Taiwan has never lived under the People's Republic of China. So, saying that Taiwan should "return itself to the Chinese mainland" is a misunderstanding of the situation.

The question is maybe should Taiwan submit itself to Chinese rule, and that's up to the Taiwanese government and the Taiwanese people.

[dpbrown]

22. No. The ROC provides the best nascent democracy to China

The ROC provided the first peaceful turnover of the head of state from one party to an opposition party in the history of China just a couple years ago.

The ROC, unlike Hong Kong, owns "itself" and so will never face a merger into the PRC unless they bring it on themselves.

In the meantime (and in China time can take a loooooong time), the ROC provides, through increasing contacts with the PRC, evidence of the benefits democracy brings.

The two governments are not yet close enough to each other's version of democracy to discuss working together to govern China.

The ROC deserves more recognition in the international community, and it should make that the goal of its recent rumblings, not independence.

[TexasMexican]

24. No.

If the people of Taiwan want indepdendence they should have it. If they need our help and our defense we should give it to them.

We were likely wrong to fight for the democracy in Iraq, but for the past several decades we have said that we would defend Taiwan from a Chinese attack. We cant turn our backs on them. It would make us completely irrelevent in the eyes of the world.

[David__77]

25. "One country, two systems."

I think that reunification will occur, but should only happen with utmost respect for the party's separate social systems.