"When Angry Democrats Attack"

[mcd1982]

saw this ad on the GWB 2004 website. I didn't think most of the candidates looked overtly angry, except for Dean who appeared like a raving madman. This is exaclty what I feared with Dean as our nominee...

I feel these types of ads will only hurt Dean and make him look more like a lunatic than a presidential candidate.

Thoughts?

Matthew

[theivoryqueen]

1. same as the other thread - anyone gotta link?

thanks!

[brainshrub]

2. I know the commercial your talking about

and I know there is another thread about this topic.

I think it's a great commercial! It makes the points that we on DU have been saying for years...and the Bu$h campaign is paying for it!

I hope they play that commercial over and over and over and over and over again.

[Nederland]

10. Your opinion

...is a perfect example of how out of touch DU is with the rest of the electorate. Do you honestly think that the GOP and Karl Rove didn't test market this commercial to make sure that the average voter reacted in a way they intended? Please, we are not dealing with idiots here, we are dealing with very skilled political operatives who know how to touch people's nerves. This commercial makes all the Democratic candidate look like bunch of angry white men filled with hatred--exactly what it was intended to do. This was NOT a commercial I would want to seen played "over and over".

[dave29]

3. you fear

and we lose.

Show some backbone, stop worrying about what Republicans say. It's how we've lost the last several elections.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. Here, Here!

You Fear, and We Lose

Every Democratic and/or Progressive activist should have that written on a card with a big, thick marker, and taped to the fridge, the bathroom mirror, and the nightstand beside the bed.

Thank you, dave29, thank you.

--bkl

[mcd1982]

17. Fear

So, if I critize something Dean does, I have no backbone? Hmmm...sounds kinda like if I fear going into Iraq was the wrong thing to do, I was unpatriotic....

Matthew

[loudnclear]

5. When angry Dems attack, the opposition get scared...and pulls out

all the dirty tricks at their disposal. And when angry Dems attack they are usually right!

[CWebster]

6. I can't help but notice the latest strategy in the Clark operation

thread after thread after thread on how Dean is unelectible.

Nice footwork for Rove.

[Capn Sunshine]

7. My thought? There's a lot of pansys here

or is the term "shrinking violet"?

Scared of your own shadow, of the big bad republican attack ad. Some say they hope it runs and runs. That's a comfort.

Know what? The Dean campaign is NOT your standard military issue media driven focus group of faint hearted liberals. No, WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP and guess what ? we DO something about it. We have the money and talenty unlike days past to counter this crap. And we will.

And when we do you cowering simpletons who are so easily persuaded by the BFEE propaganda will still be there, quivering in anticipatory fear because we run our OWN attack ads.

Oh, no, what about the swing voter? You'll wail in anguish. Guess what? If we stand up and demonstarte the difference in our philosphy we will bring in more than enough voters to counter this mythical problem.

Either you chickens are too callow to have any recollection of real democrats, or you're afraid to speak up and tell people YOU'RE MAD AS HELL AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE.

Choice is yours. You can hide behind me. I'll take the first hit for you. After that you're on your own.

Now grow up.

[griffi94]

9. yep

that covers it.when listening to RW pundits go on about
dean being un-electable.....why would they care..lol

got to wonder what's up...when you're opposition...isn't fighting but rather trying to convince you to stop fighting cos you can't win

[xultar]

8. Dean wasn't raving last night. That isn't a fair statement. n/t

[mcd1982]

12. Once again...

the Dean supporters show themselves to be jerks. I shouldn't be surprised.

Maybe I am in the minority here, but I do not believe that anger will win us an election. I want a candidate talking about issues and his/her hopes and aspirations for America.

Being anti-Bush is not enough. The Democratic Party has always been one of hope and moving forward, the Republican Party has been the party of anger and stagnation.

With that said, candidates like John Edwards are attractive to me because I see them offering hope for America, not just displeasure with GWB. I am not an Edwards supporter, but that is besides the point.

Now, I am not saying Dean hasn't offered hope -- but a clip of him ranting "I have had enough of Fundamentalist preachers" will get him nowhere fast.

Regardless, my main point of the post was just to see what everyone thought of the lastest Republican ad, not to bash Dean.

Matthew

[mmonk]

11. In the final analysis

I think most people will see through ads like that. They only work on the base support. Very few will be pulled in otherwise.

[TopesJunkie]

13. All right, another anti-Deanite thread! --

Chock full of anti-Deanitic statements!

[Q]

14. "Raving madman"? This thread is against DU rules...

...and is in very poor taste.

[mcd1982]

15. well...

how would you describe Dean in the ad? To the average American, he's ranting and raving like mad agaisnt "Fundamentalist preachers" to the point where his voice is cracking.

Maybe I expect more civility from my politicians...and maybe that makes me out of touch with most of DU, but I could care less.

Matthew

[ACK]

18. Good editng ...

Civility however got us the Dukakis debacle when he should have hit hard.

Civility got us the 2002 midterm elections where the party just tried to play nice with shrub and be repuke-lite and lost big.

You need someone with fire in their belly. I do not have a problem with Christians (otherwise I would despise Jimmy Carter for example). But he was right on with the Fundamentalists quote.

A lot of that though is taking stuff out of context and splicing tape together in an effective manner.

Good to hear that you are not prone to right-wing propaganda though. Geez, it is amazing how many DU'ers come in and start talking about issues but at the same time buying into small parts of the right-wing media message.

[mcd1982]

19. lol...

I wasn't around for Dukakis, well I was 6 years old, but obviously not paying attention to politics.

2002, I thought it was more a sense of not offering a clear alternative rather than being "civil", but I live in Texas where Dems are doomed no matter what we seem to try.

And, I am the first to admit they spliced the ad well, but the issue is, I think, most average voters will not sit and think "Oh, Karl Rove manipulated Dean's speech wonderfully!", they will see Dean as he appears: raving mad.

I'm about as partisan a Democrat as you can get, but I tend to think of myself as pragmatic and realistic -- and there is no way footage of Howard Dean speaking like that is postitive. It *almost* turns me off as a hardcore Democrat. Of course, come 2004, whomever the Democrat is will get my vote.

Matthew

[ACK]

20. Well I was there...

I am leaning toward Clark and I like Kerry. Dean will still get my vote in a general election of course.

That being said the man is offering a clear alternative. However, when faced with an angry opponent that puts out ads like "When Angry Democrats attack" the worst possible thing you can do is sit back and fill the stereotype of a pansycrat. You have to attack back and hard.

The conservatives have been replaced. The corporatists do control the Republican party and have sold the soul of the party down the river to the Fundies in much the same way they sold their soul to the red scare radical fascists of a different period.

Being pragmatic and realistic you have to realize that you can only take it on the chin so much without giving back. Look at the negative messages Clinton used in his re-election campaign painting the Republicans as the radical Newt clone fools they were. It worked.

[ACK]

16. Just because he looked like a raving madman

Does not actually means that the poster thought he was one.

But he actuall does on edit believe the right-wing propaganda message though so forget my post.

We have another spineless soul who wants to be civil and play nice while the country get four more years of Bush Co. That is great. Fighting for what you believe in and doing it in a passionate way does not look nice. After all, we should just tip-toe around and make sure we do not hurt anyone's feelings. If you believe all this civility in politics nonsense you are basically handing over the country to neocons. If the Dems keep the play nice track they might as well all pull out the Daschle approved pink tutus and give up.

I saw the ad and they spliced shit together to make Dean look like absolutely maniacal.