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[BootinUp]

1. Minor

I don't think any of the candidates are going to concede yet.

I don't think their supporters will.

I don't think undecided's will now just decide not to pay attention anymore.

I do think this will give Dean a boost but it will be minor.

B-)

[POed_Ex_Repub]

11. Fundraising will be the big difference

Gore has some pretty good connections, maybe this will loosen some wallets. :thumbsup:

[BootinUp]

14. I agree but

we have yet to see 4th Qtr numbers. I hear Clark will be very strong.

cheers

[Hippo_Tron]

54. Except Dean already has pleanty of money...

It would make a more significant difference if he had decided to endorse Edwards or Gephardt.

[Zynx]

2. BIG. Mainly because this will push a lot who aren't paying much attention

to support Dean.

[xultar]

3. Ditto!! Congratulations to the Dean supporters, Howard Dean, and

his entire campaign staff. Dean has run a fantastic campaign. I guess it is a foregone conclusion that Dean will win the nomination. Now that we have our candidate now we have to beat GWB.

I still support Wesley Clark. I will wait until the fat lady sings...but I will say that the Gore endorsement is a big boost.

Again, Congratulations!!!

[LuminousX]

7. It is important to go through the process

because it is important to make sure candidates like Kucinich can elevate their position so they have a louder voice in Congress. That can only happen if he gets enough support across this nation to make it apparent he has the attention of a lot of people and can rally them to help support his actions in Congress.

[Code_Name_D]

71. I agree. But...

the primary prosses is not vary condisive to provide an equal playing feald. And it inrages me that this is so. But this issue came up to the DLC following the Gore nomination, and THAT cercuses, and decided that they primary system was "better than all of the alternitives." (Alternitive floatd by Rush Limbaugh to be sure. Yay, I am sure there are some dito-heads on the DLC commity.)

[BootinUp]

12. Congrats to Dean, but this is not decided yet.

Hang in there Xultar! We need you.

[Dems Will Win]

24. The odds of Wesley Clark being the VP are about 90% I would think

Dean was talking to Clark about it in August. I think that as soon as May or April he will make Clark the VP candidate--he will not wait until the convention as has always been done. You read it here.

When Clark came forward with that flag and said "I buried men under this flag!" he won the VP slot right there for Howard I'm sure. Dean will say on my first day, I'm going to call Vice President Clark into the Oval Office and tell him "Find Osama Bin Laden and bring him to justice. And don't let the Saudis or the Pakistanis stop you!"

Dean/Clark will crush Dumbya and Dick--given everything: money, grassroots (both Dean and Clark have strong grassroots to go up against the new Repub GOTV) and the arguments are all on our side with Dean giving speeches the way he did in SC yesterday.

[Scott Lee]

37. That would make me ecstatic

And to Clark supporters - imagine as VP how this might set up Clark to make another run for President. Win win.

[AlinPA]

59. Trouble: Clark bashed Dean today re: deferrment for Vietnam

Sounds bad to me. Clark said while he was recovering from wounds, Dean was skiing. (no link I heard this on CNN in an interviw w/ Woodruff- Dean acknowledged that Clark said it)

[seventhson]

70. Clark as VP means 90% chance that Dean will get Wellstoned

or JFK'd or RFK'd or whatever.

Dean - Please do not pick Clark as your VP. Kerry either.

Picking these men will get you what Paul, Bobby and John (and Martin and malcolm) got.

That is how bad the BFEE wants to prevent their prosectiuon for war crimes and genocide and crimes againmst humanity.

Clark will protect them because he committed the same crimes.

[robbedvoter]

32. Do you always let others make your mind for you?

Sorry, but the guy Gore picked before was...Lieberman. Use your own mind, man!

[BootinUp]

40. Sad but so true

If people will just think back to the lame brained election of 2000. The fact is, neither of those campaigns inspired people.

[realFedUp]

4. Thanks PeteCA for your generous words

They are received well. I'd say this
is a major. All the candidates would
want Al's endorsement and we'd all
be thrilled for our candidate if he
got it. It's still an election though
and no time to relax back on gracious
words by anyone.

[Padraig18]

5. EEEEEEEE-normous!

:)

[Orangepeel]

6. significant

The only bigger endorsements would be the Clintons.

The boost this will give Dean now will push him further ahead in terms of poll numbers and money. The more momentum Dean builds the harder it will be for anyone to stop him.

[realFedUp]

13. It gives Dean a wider audience

right now, which is important before the primaries
next year.

[Justice]

8. I voted moderate

An endorsement from Al Gore is significant and newsworthy. Congratulations to Dean. Certainly caught me by surprise.

Lots of people on DU (including Dean supporters) were and are very critical, upset and nonsupportive of Gore for his own abilities, campaign, his recount strategy and his concession. I suspect that the DU attitudes are reflective of Americans generally, and Democrats more specifically. So some people will think this is good news, and others will think so what, who cares, Al Gore messed up before.

It also certainly makes Dean more of an insider, more of a DLC Democrat - as Gore was/is an insider and a DLC Democrat. That might be good for people or not good for people.

I am curious why Gore was rumored to be endorsing Dean in October, but yet waited until now. Did he have second thoughts, did Dean have second thoughts? Or was the plan to do it just before the NH debate tomorrow night - to steal a little thunder from the other candidates (I guess no more Dean folks will criticize the timing of Clark's announcement speech).

[Tinoire]

9. It depends on the crowd I think

For some-many people it won't make any difference. For some, especially the California crowd behind Matt Gonzalez, it could actually be a negative because Gore was just here stumping for Gruesome Newsom and that left a bitter taste in people's mouths.

I think it's a positive though and if I were a Dean supporter, I'd be kissing the ceiling now.

But it's a good endorsement and a heavy one at that. Gore should have been President and his endorsement carries all the more weight for that. It's a good day for Dean supporters.

[quinnox]

10. A moderate short-term boost

Since it came so early in the process.

But hard core Deanies will soon start threads saying all other candidates should drop out because of this, lol.

[Jerseycoa]

73. It's already happening

I took off to watch Clark on Hardball, came back to read, and everywhere I read the primary is over and Clark will be Dean's VP. No, no, and no again. Everybody must wipe these foolish thoughts from their heads. It can be repeated and repeated and repeated and repeated, but it won't make it true. Dean got a plum endorsement and that's that.

Make no mistake.

Clark supporters are waving no white flag.

The best one is how all the candidates have to step down now, because Al Gore has anointed Howard Dean, and the party will be split in two if they don't. I say, fuck that shit. This is politics. This is a primary race. This is America. Wes Clark for President.



:dem:

[KittyWampus]

15. Significant NOW Due To Media Attention Which Already Is Absurdly Pro Dean

Moderate Later on down the road.

Congratulations to Dean

However, he still has the same weaknesses and lack of ammunition against Junior.

[Terwilliger]

16. This is the DLC candidate from 2000 endorsing the anti-DLC candidate

either THAT, or Dean is the fraud I suspected he was

[KittyWampus]

21. Dean Is Most Certainly NOT Anti-DLC.

He was a DLC'er with Center RIGHT positions right up until he started running for Prez.

[Terwilliger]

29. and the DLC candidate attacks him as being "off into the wilderness"

I think the DLC likes Dean the least, no matter what his previous credentials may be.

[robbedvoter]

31. First sane post on this thread. Who knew we'd agree on Gore?

First picke Lieberman, then in 2001 endorses GOP candidate over Dem (Minnesota race) now, ke jumps the gun. I don't know many passionate Gore suppoirters left - the few from Draft Gore hate Dean with a passion. Enjoy!

[burning bush]

45. Not True!

I was an early supporter of the draft Gore movement. Now I support Dean, and am glad to see Gore doing so as well. Reaffirms my decision. :)

[slinkerwink]

17. it's a HUGE difference to me since it'll help draw the undecideds into the

Dean ranks.

[TexasPatriot]

42. absolutely

this is at least 10 points nationally.

[no name no slogan]

18. It could backfire on Dean

Not every Democratic voter is overly enthused about Gore. Most of us remember him from the his (fairly conservative) record in the Senate and especially from his "Repub Lite" platform of 2000.

Recent history has been kind to Gore, especially since Shrub has done almost everything wrong during his reign of tError. He looks positively inspired in retrospect, but I know I, as a liberal and progressive Democrat, was more than unhappy with his and Clinton's record throughout the 90s. There was so much potential to truly turn this country around after 12 years of Reagan/Bush, but it seemed that we let the Repubs dictate the terms of the debate, even when we had control of congress.

My question is how is this endorsement going to look to folks who were attracted to Dean because he said he was "different" from the Democratic "establishment", now that he's getting the endorsement of the (nominal) head of that "establishment"?

I guess it just proves what I've been saying all along: Howard Dean talks a good line about "taking back" the Democratic party, but he's no different from those he seeks to take the party from.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

[lastliberalintexas]

25. I'm not so sure

I admit that I wasn't too fond of Gore in 2000- I never really liked Clinton, either. But Gore has done what our party should have done over the past 3 years, adn that is adapt to being a minority party and come out swinging. He himself has been very anti-establishment since Shrub took office, and has been pretty critical of the party "leaders" who've bent over backwards to make Shrub's life easy.

I've been more impressed with Gore the Citizen than I ever was with Gore the Candidate.

That said, I'm not certain that any endorsement carries the day, even one from the President in Exile. I think it will help more than hurt, but I don't think it seals the nomination for Dean.

[burning bush]

46. Since 2000, Gore Has Distanced Himself From The DLC

Which is evidenced in his relationship with Lieberman.

Hadn't you noticed?

[blm]

66. yes, and since Jan. 2003 Dean distanced himself from the DLC.

But not from their policies, since he was one of the Dems on the right who was pulling the party further to the right and people here used to complain about it. Now, they are agreeing with Dean about his centrism as pragmatism. If Dean wins the nomination, the furthest right wing of the Democratic party DOES win.
I think that's disgusting. I didn't fight 30 years for Democrats to be taken over by the Libertarians because of Dems too naive to notice.

[DakotaDemocrat]

19. Interesting stuff...

Full Disclosure: I'm a Clark supporter.

Congratulations on the endorsement - it will certainly help the Dean train. But a couple of topics to think about:

1) Dean ran on the anti-establishment theme. He brought people never involved in politics because he was the "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party". Does he lose that mantra? Isn't he just one of the guys now (no offense CMB)? Or does he have the best of both worlds?

2) The DU crowd is big into this because it certainly is newsworthy and extremely relevant, but wouldn't it have been better to do this later in the season when normal Joe Voter will actually watch? Don't worry, you won't get a "Dean has peaked too early" from me - that's horsesh-- , but get the presser later in the campaign to build big mo going into the GE, not the primaries.

Still love the country and this system - its the best in the world.

Congrats on the endorse...

[JanMichael]

20. Hard to say but I think that it might swing some of those non-active...

...Dems that haven't given this much thought yet.

Our pet zombies if you will.

[meow mix]

22. media attention = moderate

since he gets all the media already..

[Doctor Pedantic]

23. People Like To Bet On A Winner

I think this will be significant as a vote of confidence in Dean's ability to win the nomination and the general election. People always like to bet on a winner, so (to mix metaphors) I think we'll see a snowball effect, where more and more people start endorsing Dean for the simple reason they want to be associated with the guy who's going to win.

I frankly think that's probably why Gore is endorsing Dean, and I think we'll see a lot more endorsements, including more "surprises" like this one, in the coming weeks.

[robbedvoter]

34. Losers, especially

[Dems Will Win]

35. Anybody who doesn't think a Gore announcement is not huge, watch

the media for the next two weeks talk about nothing else when they introduce their campaign segments. Plus Tom Harkin endorsing Dean in Iowa over all those other fellow Senators is almost as huge, given the tight race with Gep there and the importance of winning Iowa and then NH.

What it means also is that all other Demo officials -- AND DON'T FORGET THEY ARE THE SUPER-DELEGATES AT THE CONVENTION -- will be flocking to Dean now. Gore's endorsement is not only worth money, it's easily a few hundred super-delegates in the bag before the first primary!

THis is all because Dean has 550,000 volunteers plus the biggest unions 11 months before the election when usually the General election is not even 200,000 volunteers! Plus he is by far the most powerful speaker the Dems have had since Big Dog.

And those who complain he is too angry are actually just winning him votes. They don't understand the voters are MAD AS HELL, and in a Mad as Hell election if you are not as angry as the voter they don't connect with you, they wonder why you're not as mad as they are! (I'm a consultant and have won 22 races and my FAVORITE race is the Mad as Hell race! The rest of the races it's true you have to be cool, calm and collected. But in a Mad as Hell race you must be Mad as Hell yourself. The pundits are not experienced this way and don't get this kind of a race is the exception).

[TexasPatriot]

26. this will knock candidates out of the race

before a vote is cast - Carol, Al just lost any press they might have gotten, as we now have a real honest to got front runner. Lieberman has almost no moral authority to run now - his numbers will evaporate.

It'll likely knock 3 more out right after Iowa.

It puts Iowa into Dean's hands - so Gep will walk.
Edwards will fail to poll 15% at any polling station - so he'll walk.
Kerry will disappear as well.

The only thing that could offset this is a Clinton endorsement, and that would only work for Clark. In any other scenario, I think Dean just took a huge step towards becoming president.

[starroute]

27. Would it be a good thing or a bad thing . . .

. . . if it turns out that the nomination is all locked up before primary season even begins?

If this were 20 or 30 years ago, I'd be saying it was a bad thing, because at that time I still assumed primaries were an essential part of the democratic process.

But now, I'm not so sure. I suspect that primaries these days may be too heavily influenced by media attention and advertising to be genuinely democratic, and that what has been going on for the past six months or so is far more authentic and grass-roots.

Still, I don't feel completely comfortable about it. There's a slightly fascist taint to the idea of candidates being chosen on the basis of the fervor of their supporters. I'm not saying anything negative about Dean -- I'm just uneasy about what sort of precedent this might set for future campaigns.

Back in high school Social Studies, I learned that the 18th century philosophical notion of the "popular will" has led to both democracy and totalitarianism, and that as a result, there had always been a certain ambiguity in the concept.

It's that ambiguity that I'm feeling now. What might be the impact of a true eruption of the popular will upon our constitutional democracy?

[kentuck]

28. Al Gore is not running.

I don't think this will change many peoples' positions on the candidates. Although I think it does lend more credibility to Dean. I doubt that many DUers will change from their present choice and I doubt that most of America will change either. Dean will have to win the race on his own merit. He's looking pretty strong as we speak. :)

(edit spelling)

[Terwilliger]

30. you're kidding, right?

If Al Gor and/or Bill Clinton pick candidates to support, it's huge.

Why are there people saying it isn't?

[ibegurpard]

33. Because they aren't being honest.

Of course it's huge

[kentuck]

58. For those that haven't yet chosen a candidate, it may...

But for those already set with a candidate, I doubt that it will have much impact. If Gore endorsed Kucinich, do you think Kucinich would shoot up in the polls tomorrow? Doubtful. The same applies to Dean. He will win or lose on his own merits. Gore's endorsement will not hurt him, that's for sure.

[Terwilliger]

72. uhhh....yeah

It would have a total impact...if Al Gore said he wanted Dennis Kucinich? Especially given how many polls on DU show Dennis' positions the dominant theme among most of the posters.

Still, when the Clinton's decide to endorse someone, I'd like to see your evaluation of their influence.

OnEdit: grammar

[evil_orange_cat]

36. Major... because those who don't follow politics will take note...

for more politically active Dem's like us, the effect will vary... for me, I don't really care what Gore says... but a lot of former Gore supporters who aren't real active will definitely look at Dean now.

[Padraig18]

39. Absolutely correct!

Those who have not been paying attention will perk their ears up at this. :)

[Doctor Pedantic]

51. Right, and...

Let's not forget that despite all the press coverage, an awful lot of people still haven't heard of Dean, or most of the other candidates. It's easy to lose sight of that since anyone who's posting on these boards has been able to recite the entire list of candidates from memory, in alphabetical order and standing on their heads, for months.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...for someone with Gore's name recognition to endorse Dean means all of a sudden a lot more people will have heard about him. And to paraphrase Martha, that's a good thing.

[Scott Lee]

38. Good stuff - many undecided Dems will go to Dean

All they needed was a nudge from a party bigshot like Gore. Although Gore represents a lot of problems with party statism, for sheer numbers sake this is excellent news for Dean.

[Khephra]

44. Agreed

This will change the minds of the undecideds more than anything else...and that's major in my book.

[burning bush]

41. MAJOR Endorsement - Probably Leading To A BIGGER News

I see this pushing Clinton/s to come out for Clark.

AND - This probably means death to Lieberman's weak campaign, and very bad news for Kerry.

This is the beginning of the end for several candidates, should get interesting very quickly.

[slinkerwink]

43. like I said before, it's going to be a wild ride!

[CityZen-X]

47. Wild Indeed!

What will the Clark supporters do if Clinton should happen to endorse The Doctor!?
It could happen, and if it should happen would Clark accept being President Dean's vice?

[TexasPatriot]

48. if the clintons endorsed dean

it would crush all other candidates ability to garner campaign contributions. hell, whomever the clintons endorse will be the only candidate who can pull in cash from here on out. Gore's endorsement is worth a LOT of money to Dean.

[Padraig18]

50. If the Big dog and the Senator endorse Dean,...

...the others might as well strike their tents, because it will be O-V-E-R! :)

[CityZen-X]

53. Over For Bu$h*t Also!

This I hope would unite the Dem's into a Bu$h*t killing machine. I only hope that Clark will accept the VP position!

[slinkerwink]

56. I don't think the Clintons will endorse anyone yet....

If they endorse Clark, it's going to set up a huge split within the Democratic party.

[burning bush]

52. Is The Dem Party Breaking Into the Gore/Dean-Clinton Factions?

I see this as Gore moving to gain influence in the new areas of leadership within the party.

Good onya Dean!

But with Clinton's ealier remarks about Hillary and Clark being the two stars of the party, would you really think that a Clinton will endorse Dean?

[quaker bill]

49. Significant

Dean was well placed to win without it. But no doubt, it will help significantly.

[wyldwolf]

55. I voted "Major" - with questions....

This is a major endorsement and could (should?) send the "Draft Gore" folks into the Dean camp.

Quite a coup for Dean and congratulations.

Now, however, the questions to be answered - how many people who were solid Gore people were actually Clinton people? And will this sway the solid Clinton people?

Will this quell the rumours that the Clintons don't want Dean to win? Will this quell the belief in some circles that Clark is the Clinton's choice?

Or are the Gore and Clinton people distinct from one another?

[Padraig18]

57. Gov. Blagoevic (IL): "... the best interests of the Democratic party...."

He was just live on our local news and called Gore's endorsement "huge", and he also said that "...some of the other candidate's now need to ask themselves if continuing to contest the nomination serves the best interests of the Democratic party..."

Thank you, Gov. Rod! :thumbsup:

[vdeputy]

60. continuing to contest...

Oh, please....is the suggestion here that weeks before the first primary, everyone should just fold their tents and go home, handing the nomination over to Dean. That is ridiculous!

[Padraig18]

62. That's not what he meant.

The sense I got was that those with no serious chance of being the nominee (the marginal candidates) should 'get out of the way'--- not everyone.

[no name no slogan]

65. Yeah, fuck democracy. What a dumbass thing to say.

let the oligarchy and the "party elites" decide who OUR candidates should be. Why even fucking BOTHER with primaries? After all, "they must know best", since they've done a stellar job of losing seats to Republicans over the last twelve years.

Why don't we just forego the presidency and just get a dictator. Let the previous administrations select who we should have rule us-- what the fuck, invoke "divine right" while we're at it too. Because obviously democracy is too "messy" for us common folk to handle :eyes:.

This just proves that what Dean is offering is no different from what Gore was offering in 2000: more wishy-washy economic "centrism" that will further alienate more Dems from the party by general election time.

Watch the third party movement grow as the Democrats prove once again they'll get behind the money as opposed to their principles.

Maybe one day we'll get a LIBERAL party in this country, but at this rate, I'm not holding my breath...

[goobergunch]

69. The current primary/caucus process is fundamentally undemocratic

Pennsylvania, the 6th largest state in the country, has no say in the process...our primary is in April.

[mot78]

61. This isn't the death knell for other candidates

I still support Clark, but I'm also ABB. What Dean has to worry about are expectations getting too high, and he also needs to avoid goofing up in public again.

[Padraig18]

63. Yeah, those 'goofs'....

.... seem to add dangerously to his climbing poll numbers...

[KFC]

64. It was delivered too early to have a significant effect

I agree with you. In about a week, this will not be news. If Gore really wanted to have an effect, he would have endorsed Dean just before the primaries. His endorsement now will amount to nothing.

[TexasPatriot]

67. i dont agree

i think it'll make fundraising for almost all the other candidates really hard. Campaigns run on money - and without it its going to cripple a lot of people's efforts for Q4 (and the Q4 money is critical)

[sistersofmercy]

68. Disagree with you, Pete.

I posted before that I thought the deciding factors for the candidate who gets the nod were going to be 1) an endorsement from Gore and/or Clinton 2) a good choice for VP, meaning one of the other Dem candidates because of exposure and additional support.


Kerry will need an endorsement from Clinton and a prudent choice for a VP.