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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:33 AM
Original message
Still doubt the GOP loves Dean and fears Clark?
Edited on Sun Dec-07-03 11:38 AM by Jack_Dawson
From polipundit.com - Elections and politics with a Conservative bent.

Give, Give, Give

To everyone who took up my call to donate to Howard Dean in June, here's your new assignment: Give all you can to John Edwards and/or John Kerry.

The rationale is simple:
1. We still want Dean to be the nominee so that President Bush can crush him and have long coattails.
2. The biggest threat to a Dean nomination is no longer Dick Gephardt, John Kerry or John Edwards. It's Weasel Clark, for all the reasons outlined below.
3. To help Dean, we have to bring down Clark's vote totals in the crucial states of New Hampshire and South Carolina.
4. In New Hampshire, donating to neighbouring-son John Kerry will help ensure that Clark won't surpass expectations by finishing ahead of Kerry.
5. In South Carolina, Clark can be stopped by neighbouring-son John Edwards.

Donating online is easy. Just click here to donate to Kerry or click here to donate to Edwards.
posted by PoliPundit at 7:07 AM Link to this post | Comments (13)


Clark is Not Out

Mickey Kaus agrees that Weasel Clark is the most likely Great Anti-Dean Hope:
Dean, Clark, Hope for Sparks: The more I think about it, a turning point in the Democratic presidential campaign has to come with the first N.H. poll showing Clark ahead of Kerry and in second place. It could come any day now. Clark's only three points behind in one poll and only two in another. And Kerry's fading while Clark is rising. ... When the lines cross, several things will happen: 1) The main surviving rationale of Kerry's campaign--"I'm the electable alternative to Dean"--evaporates. It turns out there's a more electable alternative. Kerry's vote asymptotically approaches zero. 2) The #1 versus #2, Dean versus Clark match up will get lots of play in the press because Clark's strengths are Dean's weaknesses, yielding a story line that is simple and compelling: "Peacenik McGgovern II versus Electable Military Man. Which will the Democrats Choose?" ... 3) Clark will get a lot of favorable treatment in this new round of coverage--in part because the press feels guilty about giving Dean (as The Note notes) a relatively easy time so far, in part because the press wants a close race. If Clark's ready with an appealing message when the spotlight turns to him, he could give Dean a scare and at least come close enough to winning to get a boost for the post-N.H. primaries. ... P.S.: I flew this scenario by a number of knowledgeable political reporters at a party I was just at, and none of them bought it. So it's not the CW! It's quirky and contrarian! I want big points if it pans out. ...
Me too! Kaus missed one more reason why Clark will become the anti-Dean: his fundraising. The Clark campaign expects to raise over $12 million this quarter. The announcement of Clark's fundraising numbers in early January will turn the CW upside down.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Here are the links...see for your self...
KKKarl Rove and his kind were (may still be) pumping Dean. They started building Dean up in the summer. They were also logging on to Dean's website and giving $$$.

Republicans are already voting with their wallets for Howard Dean, logging on to Dean's official Web Site and donating various sums of cash to the left wing candidate's primary campaign. They want Dean to win the Democrat primary. The real question now emerges. Will rank and file Republicans cross over and vote in the Democrat Primary elections to help get Dean the nomination? More at link below:

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_6309.shtml

Now they are saying that they are scared of Dean. He's now considered a threat to Bush.

Check this...

All the top-tier Democratic challengers can beat Bush, but Dean poses the biggest threat. Republicans once hoped Dean would get the nomination to run against Bush. No longer. As Dean continues to gain support and break fund-raising records by drawing on 100,000s of supporters, the Bush brain-trust (Karl Rove) and the pro-Bush media have changed their minds. More at link below:

http://www.apj.us/20031114Hersh.html

I wish the ReThuglicans would QUIT MESSING IN OUR PRIMARY ELECTIONS. So, now they are trying to flip the script because we caught on. Make it sound like they are afraid of Dean so that will pump up support.

I guess the lesson from this story is that we should just play our game and forget about the BS.

You'll love this! The pix of KKKarl @ Deans parade in July/03 http://www.sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/1624957.php

I know who the real threat to Bush is. It is Wesley Clark. Why else would they have him pulled from CNN. Why else would they put a media blackout on Clark's campaign? Why else would they be making sure that the media play all Dean all the time?

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Keebs Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. you know
Repubic-hairs have been playing dirty for years. And we just sit back and watch. We need some sort of brainchild to cause a rukus. LOL
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. Kerry got Dean first and Bush is next. Kerry can advise Bush on what it's
like running against Dean.

Dean '04...
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. I've known that for a long time, but this broke my Edwards lock
Edited on Sun Dec-07-03 11:40 AM by Bombtrack
I took a hard look at the Daily Kos polls and determined only Clark can stop us from effectivly handing the election to Bush from a Dean nomination.

We should start lobbying people like Graham for there endorsement

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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Welcome to the Winning Team, Bombtrack
Clark keeps the GOP up at night. And people are finally catching on.

Oh and I'm still pissed they didn't pull Pedro.
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. out of the frying pan into the fire
if you think Clark has a prayer against Bush you're just ignoring way too much. And he isn't even squashing Dean.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. The BIG problem with this is that you're quoting and refering to people
like Mickey Kaus who KNOW NOTHING.

Dean will win in a landslide--get used to it. And if Clark's general election campaign is anything like his primary campaign, we are screwed royally.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yes, Dean will win New England in a landslide
Problem is, you need to poll well in the south and in the military. Is Dean or Clark going to poll better with these folks? Think about it.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. that is supported by absolutely nothing
No democrat, much less a wannabe middle-class tax-raiser from Vermont, will win in a landslide, barring some huge scandal or a second recession. That statement completly shows you to be either deluded or ignorant of any knowledge of modern political science and public policy
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. The problem is you're in denial
Whether Kraus knows anything is beside the point. This is just one example of republicans imploring republicans to donate to Dean. Do you really think Dean's record fundraising is 100% from the democratic camp? C'mon now.

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MIMStigator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. Repuke pundits detest Clark and always defend Dean
wonder why
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. Check this out as well.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Just noticed they took down the 2 which mentioned the google bombing.
There is still enough there to give the idea.
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Clark campaign should offer more than fear.
Edited on Sun Dec-07-03 11:44 AM by poskonig
The democrats fear Bush, Clark will make us less afraid of terrorists, does the GOP fear Dean -- fear is all you guys talk about.

Do many GOPers want Dean? Yes. I've talked to many of them, and the usual reasoning is that Dean is too liberal. The same guys usually refer to Clark as a "nutcase," and painting him as a loony Ross-Perot figure seems to be the strategy there.

Offer more than fear, and your campaign will get out of the 3rd tier.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Clark's campaign is as positive as Dean's is negative (plenty)
If you want to talk fear about truths in this election, a democrat will not win if voters don't believe that that candidate will inspire fear in the Jihadists.

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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. If you go by DU, you're flat out wrong
n/t
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
12. Repeating something over & over & over doesn't make it true
But if you all want to encourage Republicans want to give money to Dean, that's fine by me!

Once upon a time Aesop wrote a little fable about an Eagle who recognized his own feather... let's hope that they don't read it and apply the lesson.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. if you go to
the rnc sites you`ll find no mention of clark. why don`t want to mention him?- because they are afraid of him..why? because ,so far, he has directly confronted bush on his policy and the klan is not sure how to respond. to some it up from the rnc headline-they are all dean now- everyone but clark.
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. So tell me
Do you spend more time reading liberal web pages or conservative ones?
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Know they enemy
Any skilled combatant studies the enemy. Everyone knows that.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. ah but do they emulate the enemy?
That is what I see. Also, if ya'll believe riech-wing propaganda one must wonder....oh, nevermind.

Julie
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Bullshit
We don't need to visit their website to know them.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Bullshit...
Who want's to be ignorant? Maybe only those who want to keep fooling themselves and having "faith" that it all will work out at the end?

oh yea! Ignorance is Bliss....I almost forgot!

Kinda of like those who watch the news and believe every word. They are so better off, now aren't they.
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Let's talk about ignorant
and why you haven't responded to my reply to your LIES about Dean and the war in IRaq.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Which
Lies that Dean has told? There are so many....

Which one. Ask me know, and I will answer you.
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Then DO it
Edited on Sun Dec-07-03 12:28 PM by Hep
I see you posting, I don't see your response to my post yet. You ACTING dumb?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Can you refer me to a post #
or something?:shrug:
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. I bumped the whole thread for you
The Dean in FL thread.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. well this is what I have to say about that
If you were to watch Clark's senate testimony, which you can do right here http://www.us4clark.com/mediaclips.html
go down till you find C-Span and see what Clark was saying at the beginning of this thing!

you would find that he was saying not to go, unless you take it to United Nations.....always said the same thing...

Dean lies when he says that Clark supported a resolution that is any different from what Dean supported. After all Clark was giving Dean foreign policy advise for months....so Dean knows exactly well that Clark and he had the same stance. But Dean has to lie in order to have himself stand alone. He doesn't even give Kucinich proper credit for being the only that "HAD" to vote and voted correctly. Dean didn't have to vote same as Clark. Difference is Dean is lying about what he said .....and accusing Clark of having waffled instead. That's Low...but some will say anything to get elected...I guess it's the old politician's game.


Remember that the resolution was passed in October of 2002.....

THIS IS WHAT CLARK ADVISED SWETT......BEFORE THE FINAL RESOLUTION HAD BEEN DECIDED:

http://www4.fosters.com/election_2002/oct/09/us_2cong_1009a.asp

Retired Gen. Clark supports Swett, raises concerns about Iraq policy
By STEPHEN FROTHINGHAM,Associated Press Writer
MANCHESTER, N.H. (AP) — Retired U.S. Army Gen. Wesley Clark said Wednesday he supports a congressional resolution that would give President Bush authority to use military force against Iraq, although he has reservations about the country's move toward war.
----------------------
The general said he had no doubt Iraq posed a threat, but questioned whether it was immediate and said the debate about a response has been conducted backward.
"Normally in a debate, you start with a problem and consider possible solutions. Instead, the president has presented us with a solution before the problem has been fully articulated," he said.
"As far as the information we have now shows, there are no nuclear warheads on missiles pointed to America," he said. "You can't wait 10 years to act, but there is time on our side."
He said al-Qaida remains the largest terrorist threat against the United States, and the connection ----between al-Qaida and Iraq is unclear.
------------------------
After endorsing Swett in Nashua, he visited Manchester West High School and reassured history students that the threat of terrorism should be kept in perspective.
-----------------------
He said he shares the concerns he hears from many Americans about whether the country should act against Iraq without United Nations support and about how the United States will deal with Iraq after a successful invasion.
He also met in Portsmouth with the Democratic nominee in the 1st Congressional District, state Sen. Martha Fuller Clark.
A spokesman for Clark said the two were meeting to discuss foreign policy.




By February we were being told that the war was invitable.....

That Dean said something on February whatever....no one knew what was in Iraq...and still protests were happening against the war in October of 2002.

The fact is that Dean was saying in February, after the build up...that they could act unalaterely is the problem.

See How Clark was giving Dean advise all along, and Dean knew that Clark was straight up on his position:

http://query.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F20815FA385F0C728DDDA00894DB404482
Dean Asks General to Join Him in Primaries, Aides Say

By JODI WILGOREN (NYT) 520 words
BURLINGTON, Vt., Sept. 10 -- After months of friendly discussions about national security and other issues, Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, asked Gen. Wesley K. Clark to join his presidential campaign in some capacity if General Clark decided against making the run himself, aides for both men said tonight.
''The governor's told him repeatedly that he should run if he wants,'' Joe Trippi, Dr. Dean's campaign manager, said at the campaign headquarters here. ''I'm sure that along the way the governor's made clear that we want General Clark's support if he decides not to run for president. I assume every other candidate has done the same thing.''

AND IN LOOKS LIKE THEY WERE PRETTY MUCH IN THE SAME BOAT...RIGHT AROUND WHEN THE WAR WAS IN FULL BLAST...SO DEAN'S JUST NOT TELLING THE TRUTH:
Because, for a General, he did come off as being against this war....
As was reported here....on March 28, 2003....THIS WOULD BE SPRING...AND DURING THE WAR......SO EVEN THEN, HIS COMMENTARY WERE CRITICAL...AND HE WAS ROUNDLY CRITICIZED FOR IT.

http://www.spectator.org/article.asp?art_id=2003_3_27_22_49_18
Clark Tanks
By The Prowler
Published 3/28/2003 12:03:00 AM
DEAN-DUMB
So much for the Democrats' hope that retired General Wesley Clark was going to be their Colin Powell. "He's more Benedict Arnold than anything else, if you believe the mail we've been getting here," says the Democratic National Committee staffer who, only a month ago was touting Clark as his party's answer to the military star power aligned with Republicans.

"Any cachet he might have had he's pretty much pissed away on TV," says the staffer.

Since the outbreak of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Clark has been on CNN, bemoaning the Pentagon and Gen. Tommy Franks's strategy in the opening days of taking down Saddam. And while several other senior retired military men have made critical comments about the ongoing fighting -- Ret. Gen. Barry McCaffrey, another former Clinton-era official, has been quick to criticize during his stints on MSNBC --Clark has by far been the most vocal.

"It just looks really bad that he's knocking the troops and the way we're executing this war," says the DNC staffer. "He's taking hits everywhere, on TV, in the newspapers, on talk radio. People are furious at him. We can't fundraise off performances like this.
The only presidential candidate that would probably want to be seen with him is Howard Dean."


Prior to Clark's "tanking" on CNN, the DNC had Clark pegged for political stardom. He'd visited New Hampshire, and had hinted that he was interested in perhaps running for president as a Democrat. Now, the DNC isn't sure what they can do with the man who directed Bill Clinton's military machinations in Kosovo.




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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. So you're answer is no answer
Thanks for owning up to your hideous tactics.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Hep - that's weak
Read it again. Frenchie's post was well thought-out and clearly substantiated with actual testimony. Of course I realize it's hard to refute the irrefutable, so stick with your flippant one-liners. Nice work.
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. Stop doing Bush's dirty work!
Shame on you.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Hey I just report the news
I'm sorry you don't like it. Repugs love Dean. They know it'll be a Dukakis-esque landslide because Bush can play the "war on terror" card against Dean a lot better than he can a four-star general. You can admit THAT much, can't you?

-Waiting for some intellectual honesty from the Dean camp...
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. oh please....
-Waiting for some intellectual honesty?

You guys take projection to a whole new level.
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Why do you care so much about what the right thinks?
They're totally in your head. You've already lost.

Ever see The Thing by John Carpenter? I'm going to need a drop of blood, please.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
26. Honestly, Yes
I think they are both feared by the Repubs, and I think that specific site is an anomoly. I posted a thread about this last night.
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elfin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
30. Also - shutting down media for his testimony at the Hague
How long will he be tied up with this task - and thereby off the campaign road and primary airwaves????? Long enough for Dean to wrap it up???

Yes, I will support Dean - but I like Clark better as the one to thrash W and gain the confidence and support of the nation as he does it.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Good point
What possible reason would the Bush whitehouse censor Clark's testimony unless they were afraid he would come off as a democratic challenger with about 50x more foreign policy cred than shrub?
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GOPFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
32. Get a Frickin' Life People!
Does anyone honestly believe the number of Republicans donating to Democratic candidates is going to make a tickle of difference in who wins the Democratic nomination???? Are some of you honestly lapping up this RW garbage? These websites are written by and for delusional idiots. Everytime I turn around I read of some idiot RW who claims Gephardt or Dean or Clark is the nominee the GOP fears the most. That's BS! Here's the frickin' truth: the GOP doesn't fear a single Dem nominee. They have the money, they have the media, they know we Democrats are going through our usual genocidal exercise of hacking up our own candidates, they are more disciplined than we are (and they know it) and they are just licking their chops at the prospect of the coming election.

We would do better to concentrate on how we are going to beat Bush rather than beat ourselves up.
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leetrisck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
35. We must now allow Republicans to define
our candidates for us. I believe there are several of our candidates that bush is afraid of and I don't give a squat what they say about them. Al Gore made a terrible mistake by allowing the Republicans to define him - he ended up winning anyway in the popular vote - but he and we let the Republicans and the media keep him on the defensive all the time.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Kick...
and find my conversation with Hep.....and clarify what he's talking about.....cause I am totally lost on what he wants from me.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Kick II
Frenchie I think he's just pushing your (our) buttons. Until he asks or posts something substantive I wouldn't worry about it.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
43. I am locking this......
From the GD posting rules:

3. If you post an article or other published content which is from a conservative source or which expresses a traditionally conservative viewpoint, you must state your opinion about the piece and/or the issues it raises.


DU Moderator

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