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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:07 PM
Original message
Randi Rhodes said that "something big is coming down and
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 05:32 PM by caledesi
the Repugs should be prepared to defend themselves with the truth."

For those of you who don't know who RR is - she is a liberal talk show host who comes on right after Rush. Her show streams from 3-7PM, and she is great. To catch her show, go to www.therandirhodes.com.

Anyhow, she made that comment yesterday and didn't go into further details. Today she talked about a RICO suit being filed by a 9/11 widow (E. Mariani) against *. This is unbelievable!

Is this what she is hinting at?

Go to: http://nancho.net/911/mariani.html and take a look at the PDF file of the actual suit. It's 60 pages, but the salient issues begin on page 30.

She also quoted PNAC excerpt to prove to some stupid repug who called in basically saying "this is crazy, how would * know in advance?"


* is going down! They flew. Bush knew.

edit: wrong URL for randi - corrected.
edit: inserted wrong PNAC excerpt. Deleted it.

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wonder if she was talking to artvark.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Randi only talks facts and cites resources (unlike Rush).
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 05:25 PM by caledesi
She stomped on this repug who called in. She is so quick and knows her stuff.

For example, she asked this Repug if he knew who James Baker was? He said he knew and then she went in for the kill. "Did you know that there is another suit against the Saudis and the Saudis' lawyer is JAMES BAKER!"

I didn't know that. I love her show.

No psyhic here. LOL!

edit: usual stuff
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. She's the amazing Randi, you might say.
I've never actually heard her show, but I believe she's nothing at all like artvark! ;) (Or Rush for that matter.)
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
45. Yeah, BW. I found out about the great Randi here at DU. n/t
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loudnclear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
51. Maybe about the attempted bribe of Congressman Smith
This would be huge is followed up. It's at least two felonies and Hastert might be implicated.
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Oracle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
56. You can listen to Randi Rhodes, anytime, day or night, right here...
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
66. I was thinking the same thing and this is the 3rd warning today.
There was another strange post today about something going down.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=824965
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
87. OMG...what it we tombstoned Randi Rhodes!
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-03 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #87
89. Whoa!
Now that would be something really big if that happened!

:scared:
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Flight 93?
looking very closely at the line "defend themselves WITH the truth," about the only thing I can think of is Flight 93 and how, IMO, it was most likely shot down. Considering the goings on of that day, I can't say I would fault * - or even Cheney - for making the call they thought necessary. But I can easily see how they would fear revealing it, cause they will be attacked like nothing we've ever seen.
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. My sister used to be in the civil air patrol
and a lot of her friends still in it have no doubt that Flt. 93 was shot down by our own airforce.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I don't believe it...
unless someone shows me more proof, there aren't even any rumors of circumstantial evidence or timeline theories (that I've heard). Any stories?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. How About This?
What are the chances that part of the wreckage landed something like 8 miles away from the crash site?

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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. ding ding ding!
I don't think it was 8 miles but... an engine landed at least a mile from the main crash site.

if the brave "let's roll" passengers really took over and crashed the plane, HOW did an engine fall off???

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. It was 8 miles - FBI Does Not Rule Out Shootdown of Penn. Airplane
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2001/reuters091301c.html

SHANKSVILLE, Pa., Sept 13 - Federal investigators said on Thursday they could not rule out the possibility that a United Airlines jetliner that crashed in rural western Pennsylvania during this week's attacks on New York and the Pentagon was shot down.

"We have not ruled out that," FBI agent Bill Crowley told a news conference when asked about reports that a U.S. fighter jet may have fired on the hijacked Boeing 757. "We haven't ruled out anything yet." snip

Pennsylvania state police officials said on Thursday debris from the plane had been found up to 8 miles (13 km) away in a residential community where local media have quoted residents as speaking of a second plane in the area and burning debris falling from the sky.

more

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2001/philadelphiadailynews111501.html

We Know it Crashed, But Not Why

SHANKSVILLE, Pa. -- Ernie Stuhl is the mayor of this tiny farming borough that was so brutally placed on America's psychic map on the morning of Sept. 11, when United Airlines Flight 93 slammed nose-down into the edge of a barren strip-mine moonscape a couple of miles outside of town. A 77-year-old World War II veteran and retired Dodge dealer, he's certainly no conspiracy theorist.

And, when you ask Stuhl for his theory of what caused the jetliner to crash that morning, he will give you the prevailing theory -- that a cockpit battle between the hijackers and burly, heroic passengers somehow caused the Boeing 757 to spiral out of control. "There's no doubt in my mind that they did put it down before it got to Washington and caused more damage," he said.

But press the mayor for details, and he will add something surprising. "I know of two people -- I will not mention names -- that heard a missile," Stuhl said. "They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards. . .This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day." The mayor adds that based on what he knows about that morning, military F-16 fighter jets were "very, very close."

If the mayor of Shanksville still seems conflicted about what caused the crash of Flight 93 two months ago, he is hardly alone. As the initial shock of Sept. 11 wears off, the crash some 80 miles east of Pittsburgh, and what caused it, is beginning to emerge as the greatest mystery from the worst terrorist attack in American history.

more

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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. no argument from me!
it been quite a while since I backed away from the details of LIHOP/MIHOP etc. (was driving me quite insane, still does to an extent!)

the FACT remains that debris was WAY too far away from the main crash site to support the WH official lie.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
49. Cheney ordered the shoot down (admitted to it on MTP)
Cheney ordered the shoot down before he knew about the passengers' attempt to re-take the plane. The "Let's Roll" guys called family members before the crash, and the family members contacted the media, which broadcast the story before the WH came out with thebvg news of the shoot down. After the media broke the story about the heroic passengers of Flt 93, the WH realized that they shot down an aircraft that might've been back in control of the passengers.

The story of the passengers fighting with the terrorists and the plane crashing as a resullt of the tussle was much more compelling than the story of how the USAF shot down the only plane in which the passengers fought back. This WH, the same WH that lied about a fucking turkey, decided to keep mum about the shoot down, and perpetuate the story of the Heroes of Flt 93...

The answer is in the debris field.
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kittykitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. On the Noon News a farmer said he saw 2 planes with the plane
My middle-aged friends live in Bedford, PA. One is a special ed. teacher. They are both very reliable. They said on 9/11 they saw a report on the noon news (either Altoona or Johnstown) that had a farmer who said he "saw the plane and 2 others were with it". Of course that report was never shown again.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. My cousin is a pilot for United. He said it WAS shot down. I believe him
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #43
72. I would not fault them for this.
I realize that Howdy Doody is the one who is supposed to be the president, and that he is only "the president" so that Cheney can run things...

but beyond all that, back to that day...if they ordered the plane to be shot down, that would have been the sad but absolutely right decision considering the information that seemed to be available at the time.

in fact, this makes me wonder if part of the stall over the 9-11 investigation is to keep this (and the fact that it shows, so absolutely, that Dubya is nothing more than a facade) from becoming part of the general public's knowledge.

going with the "let's roll" story does fit...the Jessica Lynch propaganda, the obviously staged Bush "patriotic" moments...

And Cheney's leadership would naturally lead to the Energy Policy Papers, and the question of who was watching the door of the store while the Energy companies were looting and carrying the goodies out the back of the vice-presidential office.

Not to say that this gang of thugs could not or would not be so cynical and Machiavellian as to LIHOP in order to achieve their goals, either.



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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #72
85. See post # 8
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GAspnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-03 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #43
91. and my brother is a pilot for American
and former military, and he says it wasn't.

So much for appeals to authority.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. You want proof?
Go to www.whiterosesociety.com later tonight because you can download her show. It's about an hour into the show that she starts talking about all this. She never says anything unless she has references.

Also, go to the PNAC site and check out how the plans were to set up bases in Iraq, but the only way that they could attack Iraq would be if something "catastrophic" happened in the US. Read it. It's there.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/


Believe me, my husband thought it was a conspiracy, but I said "no way." Now I believe.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. This is the quote you want
http://www.newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports.htm

"Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century," September 2000. A Report of the Project for the New American Century.

<snip>The United States cannot simply declare a strategic pause while experimenting with new technologies and operational concepts. Nor can it choose to pursue a transformation strategy that would decouple American and allied interests. A transformation strategy that solely pursued capabilities for projecting force from the United States, for example, and sacrificed forward basing and presence, would be at odds with larger American policy goals and would trouble American allies.

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions. A decision to suspend or terminate aircraft carrier production, as recommended by this report and as justified by the clear direction of military technology, will cause great upheaval. Likewise, systems entering production today - the F-22 fighter, for example - will be in service inventories for decades to come. Wise management of this process will consist in large measure of figuring out the right moments to halt production of current-paradigm weapons and shift to radically new designs. The expense associated with some programs can make them roadblocks to the larger process of transformation - the Joint Strike Fighter program, at a total of approximately $200 billion, seems an unwise investment. Thus, this report advocates a two-stage process of change - transition and transformation - over the coming decades.</snip>
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
28.  PNAC (eom)
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
46. Thanks Steph! nt
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. Here are some thoughts on this subject...
WAS SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, ANOTHER PEARL HARBOR? IN WHAT SENSE?

We all know the first "official" story about the events of September 11, 2001. We were told that it was a sneak attack almost exactly like the one on Pearl Harbor more than sixty years ago. We were also told that despite the fact that U. S. intelligence had collected thousands, perhaps millions, of different bits and pieces of information, they had simply failed to put it all together in one coherent package. All of the terrible scenes of the destruction of the World Trade Center and people fleeing across Manhattan's bridges were brought to us in an unparalleled mainstream media event of round-the-clock reporting. I know that I personally will never forget that morning, nor the many weeks and months that followed.

Even before the first tower of the World Trade Center had fallen, the mainstream media began to openly speculate on who or what had done this to America. The names immediately pushed to the top of the list were Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, names with which most Americans had already become very familiar. We knew from what we had been told that they had the means, the motive, and the willingness to do this terrible act, and had actually planned and executed other terrorist attacks against Americans and American assets. All across the U. S., grief and shock turned to anger...and a very strong national desire to strike back at those that had done this awful thing.

Flash forward to the first couple of weeks of May 2002, and we’re starting to see a very different picture. We now know that Bush and his supporters knew that the terrorist attack was coming, and we’re learning more every day about just how much they really knew. Bush’s people are now spending quite a bit of time trying to blame the FBI, CIA, and others for either massive intelligence failures, or a failure to more fully inform Bush, or both. Additionally, Cheney is not only advising Bush not to hand over any of the intelligence briefings prior to September 11, 2001, he is also refusing to cooperate with the idea of convening an independent commission to investigate those terrible events.

Why? What are they hiding? What is it they don’t want us, the American people, to know?

Now, having said all of the above, consider for a moment the idea that the events of September 11, 2001, were ALLOWED to happen. Think about that concept for a moment.

One of the easiest ways to accomplish an objective is to allow some other event to happen that will set certain events into motion, or to have key security/military units stand down at a critical point in time, or both. Sometimes an objective can be accomplished by leaving a known spy in place and feeding that individual real data to find out where it goes, or false data to see if the opponent changes an operation that will allow you better access to data that you want. The variations are endless.

Think about the billions upon billions of dollars spent every year by U. S. civilian and military intelligence agencies gathering data in this country and overseas. Is it really believable that no one at the top of U. S. intelligence understood the true implications of the data that was being collected in advance of September 11, 2001? If your answer is “No”, then is it really believable that those same intelligence organizations would have failed to brief those in political control?

Once we are willing to at least consider the concept that September 11, 2001 was allowed to happen, then we have to ask why would it be allowed to happen? I think we know that the motive involved the further enrichment of the oil, energy, and defense industries. Major corporations like Enron, Unocal, and the Carlyle Group stood to gain enormous profits over the next fifty years if they could devise the means to gain control of the vast oil reserves of the Caspian Sea area.

But how would such a plan be enacted? Here is a possible seven-step process:

FIRST: Remove really smart and aggressive senior people from positions that may allow them to discover the plan, or failing that, bring them into the plan if no other option exists.

SECOND: Create bureaucratic roadblocks in the path of others that pass important information up the chain.

THIRD: Create cover stories gaining plausible deniability for key figures in the plan.

FOURTH: As the events unfold, orders customarily given under certain circumstances are not issued. Still other orders are given that send units in directions that are planned to be unfruitful. On September 11, 2001, jet interceptors failed to leave the ground for at least 26 minutes...long enough for at least two of the first three airliners to have hit their intended targets.

FIFTH: Have plans in place to create heroes of the victims, and to build public opinion in support of the goals of the plan.

SIXTH: Quickly push legislation through Congress that will protect the gains of the plan, and further the interests of the planners.

SEVENTH: Create an atmosphere of fear among the general populace and offer solutions to protect them at the same time.

Having read the seven points noted above, is the concept of allowing such a terrible event to take place really that far-fetched? Consider the following historical items of interest about which the history books don't bother to tell you very much:

1. The Mexican War, 1846-1848 was in my opinion the culmination of the unofficial policy of "Manifest Destiny", and the official 1822 Monroe Doctrine that loudly proclaimed that European interference in the Western Hemisphere would not be tolerated. Major business interests in the U. S. wanted control of all of the land from "sea to shining sea" to include all of the natural resources, and were willing to do whatever was necessary to get it. The Texas War for Independence from Mexico, 1835-1836, along with the annexation of Texas in March of 1845, was one of the two major provocations leading to the Mexican War because we knew that Mexico would never recognize the independence of Texas nor its annexation. The second major provocation took place in January of 1846 when Polk sent Gen. Zachery Taylor's newly raised military force at Corpus Christi to the Rio Grande. In April of 1846, Mexican cavalry crossed the Rio Grande and killed some members of an American scouting expedition, and the U. S. had the major event necessary to create the rationale for going to war with Mexico. With the signing of the July 1848 peace treaty with Mexico, the U. S. had acquired huge tracts of land north of the current border with Mexico. In 1853, the Gadsden Purchase acquired some additional territory that is now in Arizona.

2. The Spanish-American War of 1898 took place as a direct result of the sinking of the USS Maine in Cuba's Havana Harbor, and the efforts by the so-called "yellow press" of William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer to whip up anti-Spanish sentiment. As originally written by the Hearst and Pulitzer newspapers, a mine attached to the hull by Spanish and/or Cuban saboteurs had sunk the USS Maine. Again, U. S. business interests achieved their desired results with the elimination of all Spanish military interests in the Western Hemisphere to include the Philippines. It was only much later that it became known that the hull-plates of the Maine had been blown outward, not inward as would have been expected from the explosive blast of an externally-placed mine. What caused the explosion on the Maine? Or rather, what caused the TWO explosions that were described in detail by the ship's captain in his log? We are now expected to believe the last "official" theory that coal dust in one of the ship's coal bins exploded, causing the Maine to sink.

3. U. S. military involvement in World War I lasted from 1916 to 1918, and was a direct result of the anti-German feeling that grew out of the sinking of the RMS Lusitania in 1915 off the southern coast of Ireland with the loss of 124 American lives. The fact that the Lusitania was sunk by a German U-boat is incontestable...however, there has been considerable controversy surrounding whether or not the Germans were tipped-off to the route of the Lusitania, and why the captain chose to sail in waters that he supposedly had been warned to avoid. Was it a British conspiracy to get the Americans into the war, or was it a joint U. S.-British conspiracy that got the U. S. into the war to achieve certain U. S. business objectives?

4. Much has been written about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the event that galvanized the previously isolationist American public to enter World War II. WWII Pacific Theater veteran Robert B. Stinnett has recently written "Day of Deceit", published by Touchstone Books, 2000, in which he details from previously unreleased military and government documents that we had broken the Japanese codes in early 1940. FDR had tried desperately to get the U. S. into the war in Europe without success...the American people were once again taking an isolationist view, and nothing short of a major event would cause them to consider fighting in another World War. FDR used an eight-point plan developed by Lt. Cdr. Arthur McCollum to provoke the Japanese into attacking our assets in the Pacific, assets that were moved into place from 1940 to just before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Using the information supplied from the broken codes, FDR was able to anticipate the Japanese moves in the Pacific, and was fully aware of the plans to attack the U. S. fleet at Pearl Harbor. This fleet had originally been based on the U. S. West Coast and was moved to Pearl Harbor over the objections of Admiral Richardson, the commander of that fleet. Because Japan was allied with Germany and Italy, any attack by Japan on U. S. assets in the Pacific would warrant a declaration of war against Japan, one that would also involve us in the war in Europe, which had been FDR's primary objective all along. It was also well-known among the leaders of major U. S. business interests that getting into another war would be good for those U. S. business interests, during and after the completion of the war...FDR knew that he could count on their support. The Bush, Walker, and Harriman families were among those that profited, along with Ford, General Motors, and IBM to name but a very few major U. S. corporations that did quite well financially.

5. The Korean War, 1950-1953 was fought primarily to stem the flow of Communism in the Far East, at least that's what we've been told. It was really all about protecting U. S. business interests in the Far East, and creating a permanent base in South Korea that would require constant funding.

6. The events surrounding the creation of what we know to be modern-day Cuba are still shrouded in partial secrecy. From Fidel Castro's seizure of power in 1959, with CIA assistance, until 1963, we have seen the Bay of Pigs fiasco (April 1961), the attempt to activate Operation Northwoods (March 1962), the Cuban Missile Crises (October 1962), and the JFK Assassination (November 1963). What, besides Cuba itself, was the common thread in all of these events? The common thread was the attempt by U. S. business, intelligence, military and criminal interests to regain what they had lost when Castro's men took control of the government of Cuba.

6.A. The Bay of Pigs was meant to be the spark that would cause the anti-Castro Cubans to revolt. Like L. Fletcher Prouty, I find it very interesting that two of the transport ships associated with this operation were named the "Barbara J." and the "Houston" after they were acquired by L. Fletcher Prouty (then military liaison in the Pentagon to the CIA) from the Navy and repainted. Another interesting fact about the Bay of Pigs is that it was code-named "Operation Zapata"...which just happens to be the name of George H. W. Bush's first company...the Zapata Offshore Oil Drilling Company. Is it possible that that George Bush I played some part in the Bay of Pigs operation, or could all of this be chalked up to a mere coincidence?

6.B. I also find it interesting that among the contemporaries of George H. W. Bush during the boom of the Cuban Task Force based in Miami, Florida, were Vice President Richard Nixon, CIA agents E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis (Fiorini), and Bernard Barker, and CIA contract agent George DeMohrenschildt. Richard Nixon was intimately involved in the planning of the covert and overt operations against Cuba, as he was with all active and planned intelligence operations at that time. Hunt was known in Miami as “The Bagman” because he controlled large sums of money used to pay for some of the Miami-based anti-Castro Cuban operations, Sturgis is believed to have assisted Castro’s forces during Castro’s rise to power, and Barker was involved in the Bay of Pigs Operation. Hunt, Sturgis and Barker became famous, or infamous, for their work as White House Plumbers during the Watergate Scandal. DeMohrenschildt is an interesting historical figure that I will discuss a greater length below.

6.C. Operation Northwoods was a plan drafted by the JCS and forwarded for approval to McNamara...a plan that called for the U. S. military to carry out domestic acts of terrorism against U. S. cities to build public opinion for an invasion of Cuba. Does this plan sound similar to anything that has happened recently?

6.D. The Cuban Missile Crisis during the month of October 1962 was an attempt by U. S. hardliners to up the ante, so to speak...to enable the U. S. military to have the excuse necessary to attack the old Soviet Union and to re-take Cuba.

6.E. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy was the last attempt to create the "war fever" necessary to support a war against the Soviet Union. As soon as the last gunshot echo died in Dealey Plaza, the media was inundated with information about Lee Harvey Oswald. What better person to blame for the killing of JFK than a "deserter" who had lived in the Soviet Union and had been documented handing out leaflets in New Orleans supportive of Fidel Castro? But how does that square with the fact that while in the Marines he was a radar operator involved with tracking U-2 flights in and out of the Atsugi Air Force Base in Japan? And how exactly did Oswald end up with a 201 personnel file in CIA records? It's interesting to me that the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) documented the fact that George DeMohrenschildt, a Russian who, oil geologist, and the man who had befriended Oswald and Marina in Fort Worth, Texas, had the name of George H. W. Bush listed in his address book. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that he was a contract agent for the CIA. It's also interesting that the HSCA makes note of the fact that "George Bush of the CIA" was briefed by an FBI man in Houston following the JFK assassination. And finally, why did Nixon say to the CIA that they didn't want the subject of the "Bay of Pigs" brought up? Why did he say, in recently revealed audiotapes, that the Warren Commission was the "biggest hoax"? Why was he in Dallas prior to November 22, 1963, and only flew out of Dallas 30 minutes before the assassination took place...and then later denied three different times that he had even been there?

7. The Tonkin Gulf Incident in August 1964 off the coast of Vietnam was used as an excuse by LBJ to escalate the war in Vietnam, a war that was to drag on for ten long years from 1963 to 1973. JFK had signed NSAM (National Security Action Memorandum) 263 on October 11, 1963 that called for the beginning of the removal of U. S. troops from Vietnam. Less than a month and a half later, JFK was lying dead in a Dallas hospital. On November 26, 1964, four days after the death of JFK, President Johnson signed NSAM 273 calling for the renewed support of South Vietnam and doing whatever it took to help the South Vietnamese. But, the American public had to be convinced that fighting in Vietnam was "justified", and the Tonkin Gulf Incident supplied that motive. What exactly was the Tonkin Gulf Incident? The official story was that North Vietnamese torpedo boats launched an "unprovoked attack" against a U.S. destroyer on "routine patrol" in the Tonkin Gulf on August 2, 1964 -- and that North Vietnamese PT boats followed up with a "deliberate attack" on a pair of U.S. ships two days later. Rather than being on a routine patrol August 2, the U.S. destroyer USS Maddox was actually engaged in aggressive intelligence-gathering maneuvers -- in sync with coordinated attacks on North Vietnam by the South Vietnamese navy and the Laotian air force. On the night of August 4, 1964, the Pentagon proclaimed that a second attack by North Vietnamese PT boats had taken place earlier that day in the Tonkin Gulf -- a report cited by LBJ as he went on national TV that evening to announce a momentous escalation in the war: air strikes against North Vietnam. Prior to the U.S. air strikes, top officials in Washington had reason to doubt that any August 4 attack by North Vietnam had occurred. Cables from the U.S. task force commander in the Tonkin Gulf, Captain John J. Herrick, referred to "freak weather effects", "almost total darkness", and an "overeager sonarman" who "was hearing ship's own propeller beat." One of the Navy pilots flying overhead that night was squadron commander James Stockdale, who gained fame later as a POW and then Ross Perot's vice presidential candidate. "I had the best seat in the house to watch that event," recalled Stockdale a few years ago, "and our destroyers were just shooting at phantom targets -- there were no PT boats there.... There was nothing there but black water and American fire power." In 1965, Lyndon Johnson commented: "For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there." But Johnson's deceitful speech of August 4, 1964, won accolades from editorial writers. The president, proclaimed the New York Times, "went to the American people last night with the somber facts." The Los Angeles Times urged Americans to "face the fact that the Communists, by their attack on American vessels in international waters, have themselves escalated the hostilities."

8. The 1991 Desert Storm Campaign raises a number of issues, primarily what were the events leading up to the War with Iraq, and what role did the U. S. play in creating the conditions that allowed the war to take place? Did a U. S. Ambassador tell an Iraqi senior functionary that the U. S. would do nothing if Iraq invaded Kuwait? Was the young woman who tearfully testified to a Congressional Committee that Iraqi soldiers had taken Kuwaiti babies off respirators in a Kuwaiti hospital really the daughter of a senior Kuwaiti ambassador and not a nurse as she had claimed, and that she had lied about those events to Congress? The answer to both of those questions is "Yes", and they were used to bolster the case for war against Iraq following their invasion of Kuwait. Iraq was the only country at that time militarily capable of hindering the continued acquisition of Middle Eastern oil, and our country's business interests required that Iraq be dealt with in a way that would convince other countries around the world via the American mainstream media that the U. S. was the only Superpower in the world.

It is all too clear that the U. S. has used fabricated means in the past to achieve political, economic and military objectives. It is also becoming very clear that Bush and his supporters launched the "war against terror" by seizing on the overwhelming national sense of fear and hate toward an enemy the average American knew very little about.

Was September 11, 2001, another Pearl Harbor that was allowed to happen? You be the judge.



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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. LIHOP? Let it Happen on Purpose? (eom)
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 08:28 PM by oasis
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. There has been a great deal of discussion about the 911 timeline...
...on quite a few sites on the Internet, but nothing but incidental information has been mentioned anywhere in the mainstream media. Here is a very comprehensive timeline with extensive references. Please note that the quotes below indicate only one of several instances where proper procedures were not followed.

September_11:_Minute_by_Minute
<http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/dayof911.html>

EXCERPTS:

"Pilots are supposed to hit each fix with pinpoint accuracy. If a plane deviates by 15 degrees, or two miles from that course, the flight controllers will hit the panic button. They’ll call the plane, saying 'American 11, you’re deviating from course.' It’s considered a real emergency, like a police car screeching down a highway at 100 miles an hour. When golfer Payne Stewart’s incapacitated Learjet missed a turn at a fix, heading north instead of west to Texas, F-16 interceptors were quickly dispatched." "

...SNIP...

"(After 8:13 a.m.) Shortly after flight controllers ask Flight 11 to climb to 35,000 feet, the transponder stops transmitting. The transponder is the electronic device that identifies the jet on the controller's screen, gives its exact location and altitude, and also allows a four-digit emergency hijack code to be sent. Air traffic manager Glenn Michael says later, "We considered it at that time to be a possible hijacking." <"When given permission to climb to 35,000 feet," AP, 8/12/02, "8:13:47 — 46R: AAL11, now climb maintain FL350," New York Times, 10/16/01, shortly after trying emergency frequencies, Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01> "Just moments" after radio contact is lost (which is discussed by flight controllers at 8:15), the transponder is turned off. NORAD officially says it is not notified the plane is hijacked until 8:40 - 27 minutes later, though one NORAD employee contradicts this (see 8:31 a.m. and 8:40 a.m.). Colonel Robert Marr, head of NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector, later claims the transponder is turned off some time after 8:30. "

Additionally, only four planes are released to intercept the hijacked airliners, and they are dispatched from bases that are geographically distant from the flight paths of the affected planes. Two are flown from Otis ANGB in Massachusetts <7 miles northeast of Falmouth>, and two more are flown from Langley AFB <3 miles north of Hampton, VA>. Although all four planes are capable of speeds in excess of 1400 miles per hour, none of the planes flies any faster than 650 miles per hour. Because of the delays in their being dispatched, none of the four planes reaches any of the hijacked airliners in time to change the eventual outcome. Here's some of my own research on this aspect of 911:

"Here are the USAF bases that are equal to or closer than either Otis ANGB or Langley USAF base:

1. Andrews AFB <11 miles SE of DC>.
2. Bolling AFB <3 miles south of US CAPITOL>.
3. Dover AFB <3 miles southeast of Dover, Delaware>
4. Hanscom AFB <17 miles northwest of Boston>
5. McGuire AFB <18 miles southeast of Trenton,NJ>

These are the major, active AIR FORCE facilities that could have launched intercepts with the commandeered airliners.
All of them, if ordered in a timely fashion, could have intercepted and prevented the collisions with the WTC and the Pentagon.

Then there are these minor, active AIR FORCE facilities. I don't know how they function, but for the sake of history, let us note their existence within the umbrella of intercept before any collision with civilans could occur.

7. Cape Cod, MA AFS
8. New Boston, NH AFS

...and then there are the AIR NATIONAL GUARD and AIR FORCE RESERVE BASES.

9. Atlantic City Airport, NJ <10 miles west of Atlantic City>
10. Barnes Municipal Airport, MA <3 miles northwest of Westfield>
11. Bradley International Airport, Conn
12. Byrd Field, VA <4 miles southeast of Richmond>
13. Eastern West Virginia Regional Airport <4 miles south of Martinsburg>
14. Frances S. Gabreski Airport, NY
15. Greater Pittsburgh International Airport, PA <15 miles nw of Pittsburgh>
16. Harrisburg International Airport, PA <10 miles east of Harrisburg>
17. Martin State Airport, MD <8 miles east of Baltimore>
18. New Castle County Airport, DE <5 miles south of Wilmington>
19. Pease ANGS, NH
20. Quonset State Airport, RI
21. Rickenbacker ANGB, OH
22. Stewart International Airport, NY
23. Westover ARB, MA <5 miles northeast of Chicopee>
24. Willow Grove Naval Air Station, PA <14 miles north of Philadelphia>
25. Yeager Airport, WVA <4 miles northeast of Charleston>
26. Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport ARS, OH <16 miles north of Youngstown>"
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. yes. the paulthompson timeline
is the Rosetta Stone of 9/11 research.

if you haven't read it... well, you're unarmed in the 9/11 debate.
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KC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
78. What happened to
Paul Thompson anyway? Haven't seen him post anything for a
long time

KC
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leanings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. This shows a total ignorance
of AF procedure. The vast majority of AF bases aren't capable of launching intercepts at a moment's notice, or even an hour's notice. Langley and Otis just happened to have the alert aircraft at that particular time.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. Do you really think none of the other bases were capable of launching...
...interceptors on 911? Do you REALLY want to argue that point?

I noticed that you also side-stepped the issue of the time delay in communications between the FAA and NORAD.

Let's take a look at the facilities in my earlier that housed jet interceptors, shall we?:

LIST OF AVAILABLE FIGHTER SQUADRONS CAPABLE OF INTERCEPTING THE FOUR AIRLINERS ON SEPTEMBER 11,2001

=====================================================

MARYLAND

321ST USMC VMFA (F/A-18)
Andrews Air Force Base, MD

121ST Air National Guard Fighter Squadron (F-16)
Andrews Air Force Base, MD

OHIO

112TH Air National Guard Fighter Squadron (F-16)
Toledo Express Airport, OH

162ND Air National Guard Fighter Squadron (F-16)
Springfield-Beckley Int’l Airport, OH

MASSACHUSETTS

101ST Air National Guard Fighter Squadron (F-15)
Otis ANGB, MA

NEW JERSEY

119TH Air National Guard Fighter Squadron (F-16)
Atlantic City Int’l Airport, NJ

NEW YORK

138TH Air National Guard Fighter Squadron (F-16)
Syracuse Hancock Int’l Airport, NY

VERMONT

134TH Air National Guard Fighter Squadron (F-16)
Burlington Int’l Airport, VT

VIRGINIA

149TH Air National Guard Fighter Squadron (F-16)
Richmond Int’l Airport, VA

27TH USAF Fighter Squadron (F-15)
Langley Air Force Base, VA

71ST USAF Fighter Squadron (F-15)
Langley Air Force Base, VA

94TH USAF Fighter Squadron (F-15)
Langley Air Force Base, VA

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leanings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I don't have any information
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 07:26 PM by leanings
on the time delay. I don't feel the need to research it as I take the writer's opinions on the AF bases as represetative of the quality of his research.

I'm absolutely POSITIVE that Otis and Langley were the only bases that could have launched interceptors with that kind of notice. HOUSING interceptors and LAUNCHING interceptors are two entirely different things. It takes quite some time to get an aircraft prepared for flight. They don't sit around on the tarmac fully fueled and armed with auxillary power units hooked up to them and pilots fully dressed in G suits, ready to go. If YOU'D still care to argue this point, I'll go see what information is in the public domain regarding this issue and I'll be back. Lemme know if you want to continue.
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leanings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. I'll take that as a 'no' n/t
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
68. The website of Andrews Airforce base, before Sept 11, contained the
mission statement "To provide combat units in the highest possible state of readiness."

What does this suggest?

Andrews is just a few miles from the White House, the Pentagon and the Capitol Building. It serves as the official airport of the United States government. Which base in the country would be more likely to have "combat units in the highest possible state of readiness"?

Andrews is home to two combat squadrons: the 121st Fighter Squadron (FS-121) of the 113th Fighter Wing (FW-113), equipped with F-16 fighters; and the 321st Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA-321) of the 49th Marine Air Group, Detachment A (MAG-49 Det-A), equipped with F/A-18 fighters.

The Andrews website went down after Sept 11. When it came back up, on Sept 13, that phrase was missing from its mission statement.

What happened to the mission? And what happened to the mission statement?

http://911review.org/Wiki/AirForceStanddown.shtml
http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/update630.htm
http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/timeline/nodate/dcmilitary.html
http://www.indymedia.org:8081/front.php3?article_id=103406
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leanings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #68
76. There were no alert aircraft at Andrews.
MR. BEN-VENISTE: What would be the flight time from Andrews Air Force Base of two F-16s to the Pentagon? (from Andrews)

GEN. ARNOLD: From the time they were notified?

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Yes.

GEN. ARNOLD: Probably 15 to 20 minutes, because it takes about 10 minutes to get airborne, and they are not set up on alert or scrambled. In fact, it could have taken, f they didn't have any airplanes immediately ready to go, it could have taken them 20, 30 minutes.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: And under the circumstances --

GEN. ARNOLD: They already had airplanes airborne. By the time those airplanes were airborne we had airplanes over Washington, D.C.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Right. Now if the order had been given to Andrews, even simultaneously with the order that you gave to scramble your planes, is it not fair to say that those planes would have reached the Pentagon sooner?

GEN. ARNOLD: They might have, but they would have been unarmed.

GEN. MCKINLEY: Sir, what would be my comment, sir, is those aircraft are not prepped or built up for that mission.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm

I'd imagine the mission statement of every military base in the country says something similar. I wouldn't expect one to read "To provide combat units in a state of relaxation". But "readiness" here is a pretty broad term. There's no battalion of airborne sitting in a transport right now at Ft. Bragg, fully armed and ready to go at a moment's notice. 12 hours notice, maybe, but not a moment's. The Air Force is the same way. It takes time to get aircraft fueled, manned, armed and out the door. Unless those aircraft are on "alert". Andrews did not have any alert aircraft that day. They'd maintained alert aircraft before, and have ever since, but it was not there turn to do so that day. I know how this works; I worked in and around the alert aircraft area at Langley for several years and I had friends that were working it that morning. I'm not going to get into the who what when where and how of alert aircraft as I'm not sure that information is public knowledge. Suffice it to say that Andrews didn't have them and that is perfectly normal.

The very idea that 93 could have been shot down without it being realized is ridiculous. Literally hundreds, if not thousands of people would have known, from the pilots and mechanics on the aircraft, the ordnance folks who were responsible for the weapons, the maintenance and security folks who would have watched the aircraft come back with one fewer missile than when it left, the FAA flight controllers who had it on radar...the list goes on.
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #50
86. I would be interested in seeing that.
Edited on Fri Dec-05-03 07:14 PM by PsychoDad
I understand your point. But not being an Air Force airman, or particullarly educated in the field, I would be interested on learning what I can.

What was the real state of our national preparedness on 9/11? What is it today? What is the launch time of our fighters? Are there any on standby, or are they all on "down time"? How many training flights or pilots clocking flight hours were up in the air at the time that could have been sent to check on the planes?

Just wondering.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. they asked Cheney over and over if they should shoot it, and he said "yes"
according to the early news reports, they asked several times of Cheney if they should shoot it down, they kept asking him for confimation and he said "yes" over and over.

I always just assumed that it was shot down and that whole "let's roll" story was made up to boost morale, to make it into some heroic myth when in fact it's a complete humiliating disgrace to America.

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Would not fault them either unless the damn thing was not really hijacked
And someone like Karl Rove ordered it shot down by mistake while Junior was running around the country scared shitless from one rabbit hole to the other. Then there would be some hell to pay.

Don

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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. The problem is...
...Cheney gave the order, but Bush was the only one authorized to do so, and he froze. I would bet sums that THIS is the reason they are stonewalling. America was attacked, and Bush froze. Cheney gave the order. Cheney is in charge. Cheney has always been in charge, from the formation of energy policy done in secret meetings with energy companies and the Taliban, to decisions to shoot down a passenger plane full of civilians. Why is Cheney in hiding? Why so many photo ops for our "brave commander in chief"?

He froze, he ran. Cheney gave the orders. Either they can come clean and lose the next election because they are crooks, or they can hide and be prosecuted. It's a lose lose for them. So they are bagging and grabbing as much as they can, on a drunken spending spree to maintain their cover, maintain media silence...
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. The eight mile trail of debris leading to the final impact crater of...
...Flight 93 is another good indicator that something happened to the plane in flight shortly before impact that was catastrophic in nature. One of the items found about 2000 yards away from the crater was one of Flight 93's engines.

Witnesses in the local area reported seeing flames streaming from the plane as it flew overhead.
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leanings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. Shot down by whom? n/t
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
59. Do you remember Payne Stewart?
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leanings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Payne Stewart shot down Flight 93? n/t
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #62
70. Four miltary aircraft tracked his Learjet when it went out of control.
Edited on Fri Dec-05-03 12:49 AM by oasis
They awaited orders to shoot it down to avoid a larger disaster.

Think about the 4 hijacked planes which were reported on 9/11. Wouldn't the military be given orders to shoot down a hijacked plane (flight 93)given their earlier knowledge of the twin towers?
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ronzo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Link to The Randi Rhodes Show
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Thank you ron. I just corrected the URL. nt
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Paragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't see a link to audio on her page
But this is kind of amusing down at the bottom:

RandiRhodes.com is independently owned. RandiRhodes.com is in no way affiliated with Randi Rhodes (the radio personality), Randi Rhodes(the guitarist), Randi Rhodes (the actor, deceased), Randi Rhodes (the porn actor), The Randi Rhodes Show®, WJNO®, or Clear Channel, Inc.®.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. post #3 has the correct link
eom
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Download the show later tonight from here:
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 05:36 PM by caledesi
www.whiterosesociety.com

It's about an hour into the show. 2 repugs called in after about
1 1/2 hours. It's good! Love to see her pummel these people who don't even know why they are repugs.

edit: can't ty[pe today
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. How about the fact that James Baker is defending the Saudis in the lawsuit
filed by some of the 9.11 families?

That always smacked of nefarious, criminal and thuggery to me.

Google James Baker and BCCI and his ties with the bush regime.

You'll PLOTZ.

For kicks I googled james baker saudi defense lawyer, this sucker popped up.

http://www.hereinreality.com/baker.html
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
55. James Baker, criminal and fascist greed ball said about not going in
and doing something about the mass murder in Kosovo, justified it by saying, "We have no dog in that fight."

He's pure dripping evil.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. I also think you're giving Bushco way too much credit..
I don't think any of them were bright enough to figure any of it out.
By the way, the PNAC excerpt you posted was interesting because Clinton said exactly the same thing in a speech in 1998. He said these people are dangerous and he wanted greater powers to investigate terrorism in this country. Has anyone else seen the clip of Trent Lott condemning Clinton's 'power grab' as too intrusive?
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Standard Operating Proceedure Was Not Followed
and no one has been fired or reprimanded for
not folowing SOP.. This stinks to high heaven to me .
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Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. Clinton said what? Clinton made the Pearl Harbor reference in '98?
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 06:49 PM by Melinda
louis-t, you said:

"By the way, the PNAC excerpt you posted was interesting because Clinton said exactly the same thing in a speech in 1998."

Is this the excerpt you referred to?

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor.

If so, please provide proof of your assertion (show us the speech) as well as its verifiable source.

*edited to provide clarification cause I may be reading this wrong.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
60. Clinton frustrated PNACers. It might be a good idea to check their website
www.newamericancentury.org Bush might be a dummy, but those who surround him are a diabolical bunch of savvy slimeballs.
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
18. Nothing coming from the Beast administration would surprise me
Truth is this trainwreck has been one Fkup after another. Hes been caught lying repeatedly, covering up lies, starting wars over lies, repeating the same lies as fact...cmon can anything these fascists have done surprise anyone who has educated themselves to their actions for the past three yrs?

What gets me is the Repugs brought up repeated Independant investigations on Clinton if he farted, but now that this disgrace is in office nothing he does deserves them , despite the constant string of illegal and immoral activity they have been caught doing. The word Hypocrit is too kind for them, we need a new one since Bushco has taken this shlt to a new level .
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Randi has the goods...
....on Smirkboy. The RICO lawsuit will be the first step to getting some legal results against this pResident. I'd personally like to see him behind bars in Fort Wayne.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. The law is filing charges against Rush Limbaugh?
Could it be this?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. That's Fun, but I'd Doubt It
in that case, they have to defend themselves AGAINST the truth.
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
27. If we ever get large scale liberal radio
Randi has got to be one of the pioneers. She is always prepared, honest to the bone, and can really think standing on her feet. I listen to her whenever I can spare the bandwidth and I have called her numerous time. If you haven't heard her, do yourself a favor and catch her show. 3 to 7 EST.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
31. Shes' reading the article specualting about our running oil out of Iraq!
Looks like we could be running Iraqi oil out of Iraq to Kuwait. WOW!!!
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. yeah, that would cause a few eyebrows to be raised. n/t
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I think since Randi lives down in Palm Beach
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 06:29 PM by trumad
and so does Rush, she's been tipped that he's about to be indicted... MHOP
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Looks like it's been under construction
since before the war. It's pumping oil out of Iraq to Kuwait and we're picking it up.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. It's being built by McGraw Hill Construction n/t
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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #38
73. Hmmmmm.
I was just reading today about Iraqi's having to stand in long, long lines for gas and they couldn't figure out why but the 'official' response was increased need for heating oil and the pipelines not being up to speed. Only I don't think the local pipelines have been sabotaged... I could certainly believe this one but we all know its about the oil.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
39. That's still not the right URL for Randi
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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
41. I love Randi........
she's usually right.
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. Usually?
She's better in person.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
54. Bookmark that site.
Good luck to Mrs. Mariani. She may be able to do what the entire government fears most: Get the Truth about 9-11 out to the public. May she bring the BFEE down.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
57. Before anyone gets too excited, ahem
There is such a thing as executive privilege and this is directly related to his job a president (not the PaulaJones thingy that SCOTUS let go against Clinton).

The suit will be summarily dismissed before you can sneeze. Quite frankly, as much as I despise Smirky, its the way it should be.

Courts are courts and not the executive branch. Elections should decide policy and god help us if we can't get this bastard unselected.
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. I doubt it.
It is now possible to sue a sitting pResident.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Rong.
The distinction in the Paula Jones case (which I think was wrong, but its what SCOTUS said) was that was a civil matter which occurred prior to Clinton's election to office.

This is about current government policy matters and a sitting president.

Believe me.

This is a complete fricking dead end from a legal standpoint.

Complete.
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Rite.
Hardly a dead end.

Not at all.

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #64
71. Trying it in the court of public opinion is just as good. eom
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #57
75. who's gonna elect TRIFECTA boy after a year of this kinda press?


June 14, 2002
Remarks by the President in Texans for Rick Perry Reception
Hyatt Regency Hotel
Houston, Texas
6:09 P.M. CDT
<clip>
You know, when I was one time campaigning in Chicago, a reporter said, would you ever have a deficit? And I said, I can't imagine it, but there would be one if we had a war, or a national emergency, or a recession. (Laughter.) Never did I dream we'd get the trifecta. (Laughter.)
<clip>
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020614-8.html

http://globalfreepress.com/mp3/trifecta.mp3

more...
http://globalfreepress.com/trifecta

:hi:

peace
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atre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #57
77. Executive Privilege does not work that way
The judge must first make an in camera review-which requires disclosure of the allegedly "privileged material"- to determine whether the information is in fact protected. In determining whether it is protected, the judge must weigh the reason for the assertion of the privilege against the adverse party's interest in seeking justice. The judge also may screen out any information, as he or she sees fit to serve those end.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about (what kind of information is allegedly protected), but executive privilege does not provide blanket immunity. It is actually quite limited- as well it should be, because executive privilege is an invention of the judicial system to protect the executive, it must be carefully guarded to prevent abuse (and opportunities abound).
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #57
83. Impeach. And Convict.
I agree with the necessity for executive privilege, but if there have been serious crimes, such as non-, mis-, or malfeasance with regard to the attacks on 9/11, impeachment (and conviction) really is the proper way to handle it. Now that the bar has been lowered to allow for the impeachment of Clinton, the Republicans have a real fear that one or more of W's atrocious acts will bite them in their collective fanny.

You're right though; it will take more than a civil suit. But every little bit helps, and the more leeway Bush is shown, the better the hypocrisy will be exposed. But as much as I'd love to see it, I don't think we will have any photographs of Bush being led away in handcuffs and leg irons.

If Team Bush is as corrupt and manipulative as some of the conspiracists think -- and as duplicious as his administration has been, there's no reason to dismiss the idea -- there will be another attack before events can reach their fulfillment. If "something big" comes out against Bush this week, one solution would be to delay any investigation and use Weapons of Mass Distraction until late next summer or early next fall, when they can get a 2-for-1 October Surprise.

Of course, if it's really really big, they could just declare martial law and have done with it. I don't doubt that they would do it if they thought they could get away with it.

But there is a ray of hope. Look at the master tacticians of the Kremlin when they decided to depose Gorbachev. Within three days of seizing power, the various perps had fallen into alcoholic stupors, suicide attempts, and psychiatric breakdowns. While everybody in the USA was busy praising Ronald Reagan for the events, few noticed that the coup fell apart almost immediately once the people decided that enough was enough.

--bkl
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name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
58. ok im getting her confused with randy rhoads.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
65. I'll believe it when I see it, sorry. Too many false alarms
.
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ILeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #65
69. ...drip, drip..this is it...in the next few days...Bush is toast...
...if I had a nickel...
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
74. there's something happening here...what it is ain't exactly clear-
There's a man with a gun over there. telling me i got to beware.

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
79. kick
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
80. Fascinating thread. A kick for the early birds.
:kick:
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KC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Interesting
discussion

KC
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Tune into Randi today for more information.
Randi has the inside track due to her Senate connections to intelligence failures and policy studies.

http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/streaming.html

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. did she say anything more? n/t
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-03 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. I dunno. Im still waitin for this big thing....
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-03 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #84
90. Nothing today.
I will ask her if I see her this weekend. If I see her producer, I might ask him all about it.
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