Is DU "arrogant, elitist, and... condescending" ?

[kentuck]

I have seen a couple of posts that says we are? Is it true? Are most of the posters here so arrogant and elitist that they have no idea what the real world is really like? Nobody says everyone here is perfect but is it as bad as some people say?

Is it arrogant or elitist to criticize the military? Is it elitist to criticize Walmart employees? Is it condescending? Just how out-of-touch are the posters here on DU?

[alexwcovington]

1. That's what repukes call lib-uh-rolls

Nothing new.

[jiacinto]

2. Some are

The post I was referring to the one that attacked the woman who got trampled there.

I have no problem with criticizing the military--it's the knee jerk hartred and downright disrespect that some people have for the armed forces that I take exception with.

[wuushew]

10. Yes the U.S. military is truly the best of humanity (poet warriors)

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.S. soldier shot and killed a tiger at the Baghdad zoo after it bit another soldier who had reached through the bars of its cage to feed it, a zoo security guard said Saturday.

The soldiers had been drinking beer when they entered the zoo Thursday night after it closed, said the guard, Zuhair Abdul-Majeed.

"He was drunk," Abdul-Majeed said of the bitten soldier.


http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/special_packages/galloway/6820131.htm

[jiacinto]

15. Again you generalize

nt

[Q]

12. You should address the posters who say these things...

..instead of trying to label anyone to the left of you as thinking the same way.

- How many times are you going to repeat that you have a 'problem' with certain posters and certain issues? Isn't a couple dozen times enough?

[Randi_Listener]

3. Freeper = Salad Tosser

They're everywhere.

[Renew Deal]

13. Who is that moran in the picture?

:freak:

[Randi_Listener]

23. Pretzel Fuckboy

n/t

[Karenina]

47. HE and his cohorts

are arrogant, elitist and condescending. Not to mention dangerous, death-dealing and unconcerned about the fate of the fragile biosphere upon which we all live. Anyone who can't grok that at this point is simply dimwitted. ;-)

[Faygo Kid]

4. No. Just got a private message of support today.

During a difficult time. Elitist and condescending people don't do that. DU has its faults, of course, but this isn't one of them.

[PSR40004]

5. Dems in general

Yep many don't seem to know the differance between being a liberal and being an elitist, sorry to say but this life long Dem has noticed alot of people are actually elitist and not liberal...

[wryter2000]

8. As a very unelitist liberal told me

"The call us elitists if we own flush toilets."

By far, the vast majority (heard that phrase?) of criticism of the military here is of the brass and the commander in chief. I think all of us love the troops, and many of us are sending stuff to the troops. (I just did to the tune of $35.00 for shipping alone.)

By far, the vast majority of criticism of WalMart is of the company, not the employees or shoppers. (Although, I sure wish people would stop shopping there if at all possible.)

[oasis]

6. Please do nothing to wake the sheeple from their slumber.

[childslibrarian]

7. Nope

You are here to give your opinion. And I would hope it is a place we can tell the truth--using good manners within reason, of course!! (Remember, I am a librarian!!!)

[Bandit]

9. Just you

:evilgrin: Kidding of course. I see a lot of what you say but I also see a lot of sincerity and truly earnest people discussing things that matter. No body or no political site is perfect. We all will say things occasionally that can be considered by others to be Arrogant, and condescending. As for elitist I don't think so. I'm probably the worst one here though when it comes to arrogance. I always think I'm right and everyone else doesn't. :shrug: Don't worry, it just means we are becoming noticed. I remember when Buzzflash was called the shrillest liberal site on the web. Everyone celebrated because it had gotten noticed.

[EvilJam]

11. probably, but who cares?

you want "arrogant and eletist??"
just watch that witch with a b, what's-her-name, RayGun's speech writer on the Talk Shows!
that's the definition, right there!
hope she carries an umbrella with her, becuz without one she drowns in the rain! ... evil

[mzmolly]

14. Arrogant and condescending yes, elititst no...

speaking only of myself of course ;)

[boneygrey]

18. This may be a stupid question

Why the upside down flag?

[mzmolly]

25. Well...There's no such thing as a dumb question...

;) http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20010928/61620.html

According to the boyscouts it's a sign of distress. I am distressed, are you? If so you can add it to you avatar by going into the user options. There are many avatars to choose from, the upside down flag is but one.

[boneygrey]

31. I am distressed

Thanks for your answer.

[mzmolly]

46. You betcha....

And WELCOME :toast:

[Fescue4u]

16. No. Just because we are smarter

more enlightened, morally superior and generally wealthier than conservatives, doesnt mean that we are elitist.

:)

(for the humor impaired..that was a joke)

[wryter2000]

22. We're also better looking

And, darn it, people like us.

[KG]

28. and sexier

it's the fact we like sex that drives 'em buggy! :evilgrin:

[Malva Zebrina]

17. Hmmm

elitist? I don't know if I would catagorize it exactly as such, but I do know that over time, I have learned, there are certain things I avoid discussing on DU, if I want to continue posting and continue to enjoy it. It simply is not worth the flaming, to tell the truth ,to post posts that are provacative because of their challenge to the mainstream thinking here on DU. So, if one wants to consider that self censorship as an indication of "elitism" then I could say that indeed, at times, DU pracitices elitism. :-)

There is a sort of cliqueish consortium at times, imo and my list of things not to discuss is enlarging, it seems. It is not worth the flaming to post posts that go against the accepted grain, or the consortium. Better to stay within the safe zone. The advantages of staying in the safe zone , may outweigh the disadvantages of bold challenge.


Because we are all, mostly, aimed in the same direction regarding politics and the upcoming election, I would say that in a sense we are elitist in those that we would, without a moments consideration, censor--ie the freepers.

Wal Mart--I would crticize the Wal Mart methods of profiteering, especially in foreign countries, loudly. On the other hand, I would feel extremely sorry for penalizing,by boycott, the people who must work at a Wal Mart in their local community in order to feed themself.

[boneygrey]

30. I agree

Well said.

[DrFunkenstein]

19. Screw The Real World, They Know Nothing

Just kidding, but I do have to admit feeling a pull between seeing Americans as sheeple and smacking myself for being so uppity. Honestly, I didn't care much for politics before 9/11. I was so into my studies that I never even watched the TV news.

But one way or another, I am a part of the classic NE liberal elite. I get scared when I venture too far from NYC. There is like a Continental Shelf that people fall off into suburban mediocrity. But then I realize that there are plenty of interesting, genuine people out there. You just have to walk a little further to find them.

[roguevalley]

34. I sort of think of the remark by I believe Dorothy Parker <?> that defines

elitism to me: "Everything west of New York is Cleveland."

God help the common man, there are so many of us. The rest
can kiss my behind. -Me.

I hope elitism isn't here. I know there are strong
personalities and strong beliefs. I hope I'm not guilty.
I personally love the give and take here. its so much more
decent that many other places.

RV, part of the Northwest Liberal working class.

[Booberdawg]

20. DU in general? Of course not!

But it's a large membership, and you'll find here what you find in real life. I can think of individual members who come across arrogant, elitist, or condescending, or a combination of all three, but I wouldn't use a broad brush for DU in general. No way!

[beevul]

40. Well Said!!

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Rowdyboy]

21. Some most definitely are arrogant, elitist and condescending....

But the vast majority of us aren't; we just have no interest in taking their bullshit.

[durutti]

24. Yes.

And it's irritating. Sorry.

[KG]

26. 'arrogant, elitist', oh yeah that's me.

and with good reason! :)

but i try to save the condescending stuff for the paleo-dems and pseudo-libs that got it coming. :eyes:

[Piperay]

27. Yes and sometimes

it is quite noticable and very annoying but still better than seeing a freeper elitist since they have absolutely NOTHING to be surperior about.

[roguevalley]

35. Where in gods name do some of you find the cute smilies that you have?

that Christmas tree smiley kills.

[Piperay]

42. Just found them

last night at http://www.clicksmilies.com they have dozens and dozens of them.

[camero]

49. You mean like this?

022

[camero]

52. doh

[Jonte_1979]

29. Interesting question

I shall ponder it over my beluga bedtime snack. I'll get back to you in the morning.

[SOteric]

32. I honestly think sometimes we can be.

Not always, not everyone. But yes, we're exceptionally well-informed as compared to a good portion of the population and even a good portion of non-DU surfing Democrats, liberals and progressives. There's nothing wrong with being well-informed, but I see a fair amount of disdain and even hatred here for people who are less-informed. That's arrogant.

I see folks compiling lists of who's 'okay' and who's not based on some fairly esoteric criteria. I doubt most DU'ers would make the list of some such adventures. Pretty elitist.

[Demobrat]

33. I don't think that DU is arrogant, elitist and/or condescending.

I do think that a few of the posters are desperate for attention, though.

[SmokeyBlues]

36. I can only speak for myself...

But it's taken me many years to reach the point where I feel totally comfortable being arrogant, elitist, and condescending. And I'm damn sure not turning back now.

People don't like what I have so say, so what! B-)

[TreasonousBastard]

37. Sometimes

Can't help it occasionally with the number of people here.

By its nature, a group like this is going to be little arrogant and condescending at times. It's politics, isn't it?

Elitist is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone seems to have a different definition of the term.

How's this for arrogant:

[Forkboy]

38. Yes,to people who virtually beg for abuse

:D

[KG]

43. heh.

:)

[Minstrel Boy]

39. It doesn't take much to appear "elitist" in Bush's America

The high brow's never been so low.

Arrogance is bad; condescention not always. But appearing arrogant and condescending is often the price of being correct.

[Rowdyboy]

41. No, its really possible to be correct

without arrogance or condescention (sp). In fact, you can often make your point more effectively with neither.

[Minstrel Boy]

54. I agree, but what I said was

"appearing arrogant and condescending is often the price of being correct."

I'm talking about appearances. Remaining faithful to one's convictions, even with courtesy, will be misconstrued by some.

[Rowdyboy]

55. Agreed....

Some people will deliberately misconstrue in order to argue.

[Silverhair]

44. How often do DUers call the general population, "sheeple"? n/t

[Medium Baby Jesus]

45. I'm one of the "elites"

At least that's what Hannity tells me. Im just glad I'm not a "Hollywood liberal elite". I's a constant drone from the right and I'm sick of it. Elitists come in all stripes.

[PurityOfEssence]

48. How DARE you waste my time with your ungrammatical queries?!

Dammit.

[kentuck]

50. With a name like Purity of Essence....

:) How could we guess?

[arewethereyet]

51. Is DU ? No. Are SOME posters ? Yes. Sad but true.

And most don't realize that they are that way. I wish we, as Democrats would take it upon ourselves to get over this. Its hurting a lot and costing us lots of votes. Hell we're supposed to be the Big Tent but all too often some among us would have those they disagree with on a point or two thrown forcibly out the tent.

Its crazy and it has to stop but I'll be damned if I know how.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

53. No we're not but Freerepublic is Racist and Conservative!

:)

[kodi]

56. Good gracious yes, and more so each day.

and for a working class stiff like me, who fully supports progressive ideals, at times i fear not so much the enemy facing me, but those who stand shoulder to shoulder with me on a variety of isses.

i see it in the nadir supporters, and some deanies, and some clarkies,


There is nothing like this site when it comes to the smelly, smug buggery of out-of-touch, liberal elitism, which should not be mistaken for mere snobbish enlightenment.

Want a hint?

Try this thread.

“What we MUST realize in order to win - Americans are stupid and uninformed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=495887#495923

Another example, explained by one of the oldest Evil Duers?

Taking Back the Language of the Debate
December 19, 2001
by John Carle (ulysses)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/12/p/19_language.html

“..we have to lose the elitism, both appearance and reality. Middle America isn't stupid, but the folks there aren't all political junkies either, and leftist political ideas aren't so complex that they can't be spoken of in plain language that people who have lives to lead can digest quickly. In other words, don't hit people with Noam Chomsky when Jim Hightower will do very nicely.
“It's up to us, the people, to do this. The religious right takeover of the GOP was a grassroots movement, and it took time and a lot of talking to neighbors and friends. Reinserting progressive ideas to the American political debate will require the same time and effort. As they say in Washington these days, let's roll.”

there are a lot more, but i can't go back more than 6 months into the general discussion archives to provide more examples for the post.

Sorry to piss in your cornflakes, but there is a lot of it around here.

[ulysses]

60. oh, the irony

Taking Back the Language of the Debate

Hi, kodi. I'm flattered that you'd quote the article, but the fact is that I'm solidly in the camp that's most often accused of elitism. I'm also both a "nadir" supporter and a "deanie".

You just never know, do you? :)

[kodi]

66. no, you don't john, even when you're wearing my tie dye

.

[ulysses]

69. LOL!

Wondered if maybe you were back - glad you are. :D

:hi:

[gulliver]

57. Yes and ...

... stupid, crazy, commie, socialist, humane, worldly, wise, intelligent, brilliant, caring, thoughtful, educated, knowledgeable, funny...

DU isn't any one thing. It's mostly all good things with lapses and foibles.

[NoPasaran]

58. I am not condescending and elitist

And I would gladly demonstrate as much to any GOP knuckle-dragging mouth-breathing inbred hillbilly redneck trailer trash if only they were worth my bother.

[democracyindanger]

59. Gadzooks!

Your insinuation made me drop my monocle into my brandy snifter! Good heavens, where's my valet?

[ibegurpard]

61. Yes

Don't change a thing! :evilgrin:

[evil_orange_cat]

62. I'm somewhat elitist and condescending...

and have no problem admitting it... when I think someone is an idiot and doing stupid things, I'm not very civil about expressing my disdain.

[Astarho]

63. No, but some DUers are

just check some of the threads in GD, Politics & Campaigns and the Meeting Room.

[info being]

64. To a Believer, yes it is arrogant to question authority

We believe it is our responsiblity, they don't feel they have the right.

[info being]

65. I think you all are arrogant, but I'm not cuz I'm better than you

and I'm not being condescending:)

[laruemtt]

67. only to people who aren't

as smart, funny, good looking, all around wonderful and as much fun as we are!

[Cooley Hurd]

68. DU is sooo NOT arrogant, elitist and/or condescending...

DU is the "Big Tent" of the 21st century. We only appear arrogant, elitist and condescending to the Freepers and NeoCons because we are everything they're not, and they're intolerant of diversity.

Plus, we're cuter... :o

[eileen_d]

70. Pardon me... do you have any Grey Poupon?

Seriously, though, I think the use of the word "sheeple" is arrogant, elitist and condescending. I've seen it both on DU and FR. In general I think all DUers have good intentions, which pretty much negates a, e & c.

[Cheswick2.0]

71. I think I have the wrong kind of Anger to be elitist or arrogant

I am pretty sure that only people whith cold anger can be elitist and arrogant.

[John_H]

72. I always thought that people who redistribute the nations wealth to rich

heirs and heiresses, who start wars to make thier buddies money, and who rely on the family name for personal gain while pretending to be good ol' boys were elitist, arrogant, and condescending.

[Kamika]

73. Not really. DU can be a little elitists but not normally

Some posts can be a tad elitists concerning education and spelling etc .. as a dyslexic person with no college education you tend to notice that :D

But no it's not half as bad as the repukes wants us to look.


But of course as with all groups of people there are exceptions to everything

[ieoeja]

74. Only because we're better than everyone else.

[lastliberalintexas]

75. Some posters can be a tad elitist

I really don't think it's anything intentional on their part (and I'm sure I've said some things that could be construed as such too). But I was appalled at the thread a few weeks ago berating some poor guy who wrote a LTTE which contained many spelling and grammatical mistakes. Many posters ridiculed the man and asserted that the spelling errors meant that the letter *had* to be a hoax.

Well, it probably wasn't a hoax. There are many people out there who don't know how to write and spell correctly, and some of them are even- gasp!- liberals. People here tend to be better educated than the population as a whole, and we sometimes forget that there are still people in America who never graduate from high school.

There are adults in our society who function with 8th grade reading levels, and work their tails off in often menial, minimum wage jobs to support themselves and/or a family. These are the people we as liberals are supposed to be helping! We should not look down upon them or ridicule them for their lack of education- something over which they may not have had any control. I went to school with a guy who had to drop out at 16 so that he could go to work and support his family (mom sick, dad in prison). This was in the late 80s in a fairly medium sized Texas city- not in the stereotype of Appalachia of the 1940s.

I remember a Molly Ivins article which spoke to this very topic even. She made the comment in connection with many of the Christian Colaition types who vote repub, and said something to the effect that we should not be looking down on the very people we should be helping and courting as voters. We won't win them over with condescension, after all.

Not everyone went to college. Not everyone works a white collar job. Not everyone makes even $30,000 a year. Some people really do have to shop at WalMart, whether out of financial or geographic necessity. I just wish we could keep those things in mind when we are talking about our fellow humans.

[Kamika]

78. I think that was a great post

Not sure what to say , but I do agree with you.

[David__77]

76. Yes and no...

I think that *probably* a lot of posters on this site are white, from a "middle class" background and are more formally educated than the public at large. This reminds me somewhat of the "New Left." The New Left was good because it said things that needed to be said and challenged the reactionaries. It was bad because it was anti-labor in many respects and was perhaps insensitive to the cultural status of a large proportion of Americans.

I don't propose that "sensitivity" in this regard would mean not challenging backward thinking, but rather that you have to, to some extent, "speak the language" of the masses of people you presumably want to win over. I think it's important to keep a mass perspective and keep attumed to people's ways of thinking, take the best of the ideas from the people themselves, and work out good progressive policy on that basis.

It's all well and good, for instance, to talk about the importance of not shopping at Wal-Mart, but that doesn't immediately connect with someone who doesn't think they can afford to shop somewhere else. It's an ideological struggle to remold people's thinking. We can't be preachy or "know-it-all." We have to always be earnest and modest in poltical work.

[Gringo]

77. Some posters are a bit haughty in tone, and it's very PC.

But I prefer haughty to the redneck shrillness on many boards. The PC thing is a bit annoying, but rules is rules....

Not really so arrogant, elitist or condiescending.

Sure we look down on those that just believe the Teevee's nonsense without doing any homework. But people like that are STUPID for not being more curious, IMO.

[lastliberalintexas]

79. Or maybe they are

just too busy trying to earn a living, working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet. It might- just might- not have anything to do with whether they are curious or not. :shrug:

[Gringo]

80. Good point , I suppose, but

from my acquaintances, it seems to be mostly spoiled suburbanites who are most cluesless, not the working poor. And i know a lot of both. I've found my African-American friends to be some of the BEST informed of all, and they're not all rolling in dough. Anyway, i do get your point. I would never fault someone in that position.