Trailer/white trash are derogatory

[JAbuchan08]

and I would appreciate it if the people on this board would stop referring to idiots like Bush etc. as trailer trash simply because they are examples of extreme ignorance. Everyone knows that most Republicans were born to upper or middle class families. Anyone who uses these terms is just playing into the divisiveness of the Republican strategy. Everytime you refer to trailer trash you are feeding the perception that liberals are elitist and losing more and more people who are anti-government as a matter of principle and only Republican by default.
BTW I was raised in a trailer park and have suffered with social anxiety for years due to the shame I felt. Attitudes like those sometimes expressed on these boards helped to feed that shame. I suggest you take into account the fact that being "trash" has nothing to do with the size of ones home.

[onebigbadwulf]

1. I would have to disagree

I would say that 10% of republicans are filthy rich and 90% of republicans are poor fundamentalist christians.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

4. onebigbadwulf i have to say correct

[JAbuchan08]

6. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear

I was referring to Republican leadership - not the general Republican population. Remember we're fighting one, we're trying to free the other. Insulting the poor isn't going to gain their trust.

[bearfartinthewoods]

28. 90% is too high

i live in a poor rural pubbie hell. maybe 40% are fundamentalist christians. people can be pubbie for a lot of reasons besides being rich or fundie.

[Hippo_Tron]

63. George W Bush may be rich...

He's still white trash.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. BS...the repukes call dems all ghetto welfare recipients...

what's good for the goose is good for the gander

[JAbuchan08]

8. Huh?

I can see that's derogatory, but I'm not understanding the sentence fragment.

[QC]

9. Do you really want the Republicans to be your moral compass?

Besides, it's the ruling class that is putting the screws to us, not people who have no choice but to live in trailers.

[bloom]

10. Oh - and I want to be like them

:eyes:

[argyl]

52. When the Repubs use such insults they play to their bigot base

and are denigrating a portion of the population that will not vote for them because they are aware of how contrary the neocon philosophy is to their interests.It's really a win\win for them,whereas Democrats,by insulting poor whites,are automatically disenfranchising a large portion of the electorate whose true needs are more addressed by Democrats.Poor whites living in trailers is not unique to the South.With a little education some of these votes could go Democratic.We'll need every vote we can get in 2004.

[Rowdyboy]

3. I spent several years living in trailors

when I was just out of college. Nothing at all wrong with it.

I once made a remark about "white trash" around a black friend of mine and he said that he found it racist. He wasn't offended, he just said he didn't think I should use it anymore. I trusted his judgement.

Not to hijack your thread, but I feel the same about calling people "sheeple". It demeaning.

[NashVegas]

62. Similar Here

When I was the last of her 5 kids still living at home, my mom sold the house and bought a trailer, moved into a park, in an area of town (the burbs, to be more accurate) we kids had always referred to as "the jungle."

I was horrified, but once we moved in I heard the rain on the roof and decided to revel in my newfound circumstances of being, "trailer park trash," rather than feel stigmatized by it.

My mom was never able to view it so lightly, and to this day bristles when she hears me use the phrase, even in jest.

[Stuckinthebush]

5. You are 100% correct

I'm glad you pointed that out. It bugs the hell out of me to see it written.

There are a lot of good, hard working Democrats and Progressives who live in trailers. Let's affirm them instead of breaking them down.

[FlaGranny]

25. We moved to a mobile home just recently.

In a very nice senior citizen park with clubhouse and pool and we own our MH and land and pay property taxes. I have been middle class all my life and mobile home living was the most economical way to spend our senior years, so we took the plunge. We're still working right now, but when we retire, because of downsizing our living expenses, we expect to be able to enjoy life a little more. We just decided the home we live in is not as important being able to relax a little more and enjoy our lives a little before we get too old. Since we've moved to a "trailer" I'm also beginning to feel a little miffed when I see the words "trailer trash."

[bearfartinthewoods]

32. good for you!!!!

we're trying to talk she-bear's folks into doing likewise. what's the use of a ten room house and being 'house poor' when you can live better by downsizing!

[FlaGranny]

48. Exactly the words we spoke.

[bloom]

7. I agree

I don't think it is a very liberal thing to be insulting large amounts of people because of their skin color and the type of home they live in (or have lived in).


It's not smart.


P.S. I've lived in a trailer too (with some woods around it).

[bearfartinthewoods]

36. many people have.

that's how she bear and i could afford to save enough to build a house.

we bought 12 acres of land and a cheap, used trailer for 17,000. we
put every penny into the loan and paid it of in three years. then we saved the money we would have been paying for rent for ten years and put half down on our house. paid it off this year.

all that and we have never grossed more than 30,000....probably averaged around 20.

[Nobody]

39. What a wonderful idea!

And with 12 acres you can have all kinds of outdoors fun. If I ever get tired of living in the inner city (which I love) I might steal your idea.

My only requirement: Lots of trees and a clearing large enough to invite friends to pitch tents and build a bonfire.

[shanti]

51. you are to be commended for your frugality!

that's the way to do it. i know you can't be living in california, tho.

i used to daydream about my "homestead" back in the day when the mother earth news was around...nothing like owning some acreage.

[oasis]

11. Democrats/ progressives should display more tolerance.

[Malva Zebrina]

12. I have used that term rhetorically to describe George Busn and Laura

and rhetorically it does not heap insult uponthose who live in trailers. What is is saying, rhetoricallyk is that the Bushes, no matter how hard they have tried to break into high society, have, failed. They do not have the "old wealth", nor do they have the breeding to be included n the "high society" but they would like to think that , indeed , they do belong to this higer society because, well because one was a failed president and the other is on his way to becoming a failed president. Their wives are most obviously trying desperately to join the in crowd of society--and if they cannot they will insist that they do not care--well they, the both that we have been exposed to, Barb and the lump, are sorely lacking in style, nuance and upbringing. So they get defensive. They simply are on the edge--they are not in with the wealthy, old money, crowd, and have never been.
Thye are indeed, rhetorically, trailer trash.

[QC]

15. The Bushes are New England old money.

While I agree with you that trashy is as trashy does, I can't quite follow the reasoning that using a class slur somehow is not really a slur against the class against which it is apparently directed if one only does it "rhetorically."

If anything, referring to BushCorp as "trailer trash" undermines the point you're trying to make by implying that moral worth is a matter of one's wealth. If that is true, then the Bushes are as morally worthy as any family in America.

[Malva Zebrina]

20. I am failing to understand your point

the Bushes lived in Kennebunkport,Maine, in their "summer home" a bastion of wealthy, old monied families who own summer "cottages" there although most of those cottages are homes that the average person would consider opulent full term housing. Many live in these cottages for two or three weeks during the summer and then they are closed up.

However, the Bushes have never really made the top team, so to speak.

They are obviously secondary wannabees in the societal hierarchy--for instance, the Kennedys were right up there in society and knew how to be equisitly gracious and well mannered accoring to that heirarchy--the Bush's remain the dumbasses--they remain crude, unintelligent, and crass. They are wannabees without portfolio.

The term "trailer trash", in my understanding, refers to whites who saw themselves above blacks, but who were definately lower on the scale of intelligence with their white compatriots and were without knowledge and lacking in intelligence, but nevertheless, insisted upon being higher in the societal scale than the blacks, who may hae been cleaner and neater, because, simply , they were whites in a society that saw blacks as inferior.


This is what the Bushs do. They are not sophisticated, not elegant, not members of the higher, old monied, society of the charity balls and the coming outs of their teenaged daughters as the old wealth snobs. But, they would like to be--just never made it and so pretend that all of that is a disease of living in the Northeast. They are crass, wealthy , wannabees who think because they perform according to what they "think" they should be, to keep up with the landed gentry, they are representative of class and sophisticated society. That would account for Laura's ridiculous, overextended outfits and George's disdain of things beautiful and elegant. They are, actually, very crass wannabees.

[QC]

27. OK, let's use a more graphic example.

If I were to "rhetorically" employ the stereotype of "hook-nosed Shylocks" and insist that I was not referring to real, actual Jews (who are some of my best friends, honest!) but instead to greedy people in general, anyone with the sense God gave a tapeworm would call bullshit on it. And rightly so. Playing with stereotypes is dangerous and, in most cases, pointless.

Frankly, I am puzzled by the way you idealize old money. Where do you think those fortunes came from? They were accumulated by people every bit as squalid and grasping as the Bushes. Even in the Gilded Age the Vanderbilts were considered awful people to work for, and Carnegie got the money to open those libraries by breaking the Homestead Strike, among other abominations. Ever heard of the Ludlow Massacre? John D. Rockefeller was responsible for that. And so on. Look just a few generations behind even the most genteel resident of Greenwich and you'll find a whole pack of Bushes.

[Malva Zebrina]

33. I am not arugueing with you

but in my observation there is a difference and really it is a misrepresnetation to say I am "idealizing" it. I am reporting upon a reality that I have observed over my lifetime. I am reporting the facts. When I say Old money, I mean that -they have had a lot of money for many generations in their family , like say the Rockefellers, for instance.

I am not saying that they deserve anything better on the scale of humanness, for that goes against my political leanings, but that because of that old money , there is a tradition that is passed down and usually it is called "high society". This high society does not always need to be totally disdained--many of these have become important contributors to society and many are contributors toward the perpetration of things in our society that would have fallen by the wayside had it not been for this old money concern and philanthrophy.

I am only citing a fact that exists and that has existed in our society for a long time, not attempting to make a judgement or idealize the old money participants one way or the other. I could really care less if I meet someone, if they are monied or not as far as evaluating them as human beings.

Some were beneficial, others were not. But the Bushes, imo, want to be included in this romantic personification of the benevolent high society family, and they fail because they lacked the nuance and the breeding and the intelligence. They lack the breeding and the training. They are pretender wannabees, just as the whites who lived in trailers with tons of garbage in the front lawn pretended to be better than the blacks who kept their front lawns free of garbage and neat and clean.
But

[QC]

45. I'm not trying to jump on you either.

I sometimes get a bit too passionate about this subject because of my own experiences growing up.

The problem I have with the whole trailer trash stereotype is that it ties poverty to moral inferiority, which is an old strategy for blaming the poor for their condition. We've been doing it since the Colonial Era. Slave-owners even used the white trash stereotype to justify slavery.

Associating poverty with moral squalor misses the real target. It wasn't the poor who instituted Jim Crow, imported, bought, and sold slaves, killed strikers, or started this war. Nice rich people with blue blood and expensive educations and pretty houses did. People who live in trailers do not have their hands on the levers of government and international finance. They are not the ruling class.

As for Bush, he reminds me of JFK's take on Nixon, which is that he never did have any class. Notice that JFK didn't go after Nixon's blue-collar upbringing or anything like that. He just cut to the point, which is that Nixon had no class.

[NashVegas]

64. Hate to Quibble But ..

But the Bushes, imo, want to be included in this romantic personification of the benevolent high society family, and they fail because they lacked the nuance and the breeding and the intelligence. They lack the breeding and the training.

In the *real* scheme of things, it's not who your father was that counts for your social status, but your mother. And if you follow the matrilineal lines on GW's geneologies (on both sides) you'll find results that show the Bush's have just as much "breeding" as anyone. The crudeness, well, that's just what happens when you move to Texas.

*ducks*

[JAbuchan08]

16. Wouldn't a similarly effective way of stating this be -

they were born without class and have yet to achieve it?

[Malva Zebrina]

34. right

that says it in a nutshell.LOL

[spooky3]

41. great phrase--also, I think you are describing "noblesse oblige"

and the lack of it. It's the term the old monied families use to describe the obligation they have to the less fortunate (in both meanings of this word), that is given to them by their wealth and power. The Kennedy's and others seem to carry out their nobless oblige with grace. Barbara B. and her brood have no idea what it means.

[Ksec]

59. when I was first married I lived in a trailer

for 3 years, in a trailer park. It was interesting to say the least. I consider it just another one of my lifes experiences which make me who I am today. Now I own my own home and it feels good.

[bearfartinthewoods]

46. people used to call BC and Hillary trailer trash too.

[Solly Mack]

13. They're meant to be derogatory

and they are...

oh, I've been guilty of it...but I'm working on it because I do feel such terms play to classism and stereotypes about the poor.

Not everyone that is poor is trash....not everyone that is trash is poor...just look at Bush.

Being "trash" has to do with content of character.

I don't think poverty makes people trash...so where you live, based on what you can afford ..or even preference...has zilch to do with how "triffling" a person is..

I call the term "white trash" just another part of the "plantation mentality"....because Plantations had clear cut social divisions..

The Plantation Mentality embraces the notion that "slaves (blacks) didn't (don't) know better"...but "white" folks should know better(the implication of superiority of whites).. so...they must be crackers or trash to be "different" from us...White people (some) can be brutal to other whites just as those same white people are brutal to people of color....and all stemming from prejudices/classism and the "who am I better than today" mentality.

It's just another way to divide those not wealthy

[Kanary]

14. Dems shoot themselves in the foot, over and over, using these insulting

terms and derogitory statements.

Time to do some soulsearching and deep thinking about Values.

Kanary

[Kolesar]

57. Give me some examples

I would hardly say that people representing the Democratic party belittle the poor people.

These threads keep coming up and they never produce anything positive.

[Kanary]

17. Same with "Old Hag" to describe women!

I'm completely amazed that so-called liberals will, in the same breath, describe Bird as being an elderly statesman, and a woman as being an "old, tired Hag".

I could say "I resemble that remark", as could a lot of women right here on this forum!

It's high time for some awareness!

Cease and desist with the demeaning remarks please! Think before you type.

Kanary, who is also getting old, and probably a hag, but a human bean never-the-less

[Malva Zebrina]

44. the only problem I have with this is

that I percreived Byrd as being quite elegant, and relaxed at the age of 86. He was sharp and himself as we who are Byrd watchers know him to be--the old hag, well she deserved it. She looked hard and harsh and spoke stiffly--she saw fit to dye her hair a harsh, unyeilding black, and it emphasized her hardness. Besides that, she was kissing up to Bush's ass. LOL Anyone who does that, deserves all sorts of criticism and I do not care who they are, male or female.

She did indeed look like an old hag. Sorry, but there is a time when the truth is the truth and when that truth does not necessarily mean any sort of derogaroty sterotypes. One cannot get all hung up on worrying that their astute observations, their true observations, cannot be voiced because, well because they are unfair, sexist or stereotypical.

[Kanary]

49. So, I'm an Old Hag, Marianne, so I guess you can dismiss me, too...

you see, these danged stereotyped descriptions HURT!!!

So, she is a typical Republican, doing what replublicans do. Yes, vote her out, yes, condemn her actions.
But just dismissing her as an Old Woman, and a hag to boot.... you dismiss a whole lot of us with that.

Now, does it matter to you that you've hurt another old woman????

And, *that's* the truth.

Kanary

[Malva Zebrina]

56. heh

no guilt here, Kanary. She is a hag--no doubt about it. As for you, beats me-and further what you are does not matter to me--that is a non sequitur and a straw man.

She is a black hair dyed hag -

hag1 (hãg)
n.

An old woman considered ugly or frightful.

- and did not present any other appearance than that of a hag. It fits as far as I am concerned after watching her appearance on C-Span today. Sometimes women have to consider that they are no longer twenty or even thirty, or even forty years old and even, possibly fifty years old. If they cannot admit and adjust to their entering or being in the old age catagory,and insist upon dying their hair jet black as it once was in the twenties, I think there is something lacking in self esteem there. Not good. Does not work. Does not look good. Looks exactly like a hag, when it is not necessary to look so.

Compare to Hillary and her hair coloring.

[Kanary]

58. Actually, it originally referred to Pagans

So you can insult pagans, while you're at it.

You've made your point that it matters not to you whether you insult others or not.

As for her age and appearance, if she was a Dem and was voting "correctly", would you then still rag on her age and appearance?

Maybe when you get a bit older, you'll understand the effect of your words.

I'm also really unhappy with Kennedy's behavior with his nephew, but I still appreciate his standing up now for issues that matter.

Kanary

[Skittles]

47. I don't think all elderly women are OLD HAGS

but Barbara Bush senior most certainly IS

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. I agree.

I have always hated that term. I lived in a trailer until I was 7..until my parents could finally afford to buy a house. The term is offensive. A friend of mine made a remark about someone being like trailer trash and I embarrassed the hell out of her when I told her I had lived in a trailer until I was 7. I've never heard that term come out of her mouth since.

SAME as "soccer mom" term. I find that offensive also. It sounds there's something wrong with a mom whose kids participate in soccer. I might add, it's one of ANN COULTERS favorite terms to use.
:(

[JAbuchan08]

19. Hmm... it hadn't occured to me that "soccer mom" could be

offensive. I thought it was just a convenient demographic label like blue-collar or white-collar, but I guess we probably should not generalize people's characters based on easy labels no matter how seemingly innocuous.

[Kanary]

24. How about "Old Hag"??

~~

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

21. My sister's trailer is three times the size of my Manhattan apartment

and has nicer furniture. She owns, I rent. Don't even think of my aunt and uncle's double wide - 6 bedrooms, a formal living room and a den. That's nice living if you ask me.

[roughsatori]

22. People who use that phrase DISGUST me and have more in common

with Republicans then they do with me. I was raised in a trailer park. There were 8 of us. My parents (life long Dems) could not afford to empty the septic tank. My father would siphon it out with a hose at night. But worse was how we were treated in school for being poor. Last year I bought my parents a condo so they could move out of the dilapidated trailer. It was cold and would leak when it rained.

I have a multi-multi-millionaire brother who told me that Dems are just as classist as Republicans and that I should never fool myself in regards to them. Every time I read "white-trash" and "trailer-trash" I see his point. Worse, when this point is made by people such as yourself, some here at DU will actually DEFEND their classism. They will claim it is jut a joke or speaking rhetorically. It is clear they are not at all aware of what being a Progressive entails.

My sister lives in a very exclusive area and has a wonderful education, her daughter just graduated from the University of PA--and yet she called me the other night and started crying when she was recounting a story of people using the phrase "trailer-trash."

I think that many Americans have been raised so comfortably that they have no idea what it is like to be raised in poverty. It is a trap and it is very difficult to get out of--I will not forget about and mock those who still live there just because I was blessed to get out.

[QC]

40. You know what's really funny, roughsatori?

Is how those who like to denounce people as trash are typically the very same ones who get all righteously indignant when anyone raises the subject of elitism.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. All stereotypes are offensive

They are designed to take something as complex as a group of human beings and out them in a handy box so that they may be easily defined. That definition then dictates how the world will relate to you...trailer trash, welfare queen, NASCAR dad etc.


I try to stay away from those terms but have been guilty myself of doing it.

I am sorry to hear your experience with anxiety associated with these terms.

FWIW, I have met poor people with more class in their pinky than some multi millionaires have in any aspect of their entire existance.

[Malva Zebrina]

26. I don't regard it as a "sterotype"

I see it as a rhetorical device to describe white people who lord it over black people, when they are worse offenders than that which they are lording it over. I think that was the beginning of the use of the "trailer trash" rhetoric. Whites were better than blacks, even though they were crass, bullies, who left garbage in front of their disgusting looking , garbage infested front lawns, trailers.

It describes a society that is relevant to describing the insults of color class.

[Kanary]

30. Marianne

You have posted that you use it, and think it's fine. I hope you see that many people here are offended by it, and pause for just a moment to give it some thought.

We all, at times, find ourselves being confronted with something we have said that hurts another human being. We can either continue to defend ourselves, or look at how it affects someone else and realize that we don't need to keep using a term that is hurtful to someone else. Really, is it that hard to drop that phrase from your vocabulary? Is it worth it? Please, just be willing to pause a moment and think about it.

Kanary

[Malva Zebrina]

35. I love your answer

perhaps I did not realize the insult to people who live in trailers take with that phrase. If I lived in a trailer to tell the truth, I would not be insulted by it, recognizing what the rhetorical device is meant to be.

I apologize for my insensitivity to those who do take offense and my description was done in innocence. As a matter of fact, my very next =door neighbors have a trailer and have been my neighbors for twenty years and I never think of their trailer in any way other than it is their home as my little four room 200 year old house is a home.

[Kanary]

38. Thank you, Marianne, for reconsidering....

[Leftist78]

55. I grew up in one of those

"disgusting looking...trailers", and I can assure you that I've never lorded over anyone. I understand that there are those who have, but to paint us all with that brush is as unfair as calling all Arabs terrorists or insinuating that all African Americans live in the projects and are in gangs.

[buddhamama]

29. agreed! and democrats live in trailers too.

once long ago, trailers became the rage because of initial costs and easy maintenence. they are also associated with the South-why, i don't know. but they are prominent in New England, out west, everywhere.

[David Zephyr]

31. They Are Derogatory and Class Based.

Excellent post. And it speaks with power.

Count me with you, Jabuchan. I have posted here since the early days on this very subject.

:hi:

[Skittles]

37. my first home was a trailer

I don't care for the term trailer trash either; it is extreme stereotyping at its worst. I expect better from Democrats.

[terrisel]

42. I agree . Let's try to find a more accurate expressive term

I can't think of something creative--but the image I would like to get across has to do with lots of money, ingratitude, arrogance, selfishness, wasteful, ducking responsibility, and trashing and endangering other other people while protecting oneself.

The Ungrateful Rich might work--I am amazed that people who who have been given or taken so much are so unwilling to give back.

For the ungrateful rich republicans who claim to be Christians, I like to use "Camelhump Christians"-in reference to that great phrase of J.C.'s in the New Testament about how it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to go to heaven.

I promise to never use the "trailer trash" term--due to the power of your post. I appreciate your straightforward statement. I think it really helps get us all on the same page.

[Kanary]

43. Camelhump Christians... gotta love it

sigh... probably Christians who *aren't* the ones who can't get through that hole in the needle would still feel "punctured" by the term, but.... it appeals to me.

~~evil cackle~~

Kanary

[HamstersFromHell]

65. Might I suggest...

...a few things here?

As a former patch holding biker (yes, the "1%er" type), might I suggest a term we used for "wannabes".

We called 'em "sidewalk commandos". Wannabe bikers. Walk the walk, dress the dress, talk the talk, everything but the one thing that to us counted...they didn't *ride*.

As we used to say years ago, "there's another commando with a $19.95 biker kit"...a $12.00 chain wallet and a $7.95 Harley T-shirt. Of course, prices are quite higher now, and now you have "rubs" (rich urban "bikers"), but it's still the same.

You might can afford a house in Kennebunkport, but thet doesn't guarantee your acceptance in the "old guard" - those who were "already there"...just another pretender to them, I'd suppose.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion...

Hammies!

[arewethereyet]

50. sorry you feel shame for that

it should be more a point of honor. If you go places in your life then you've earned it the right way.

[MasonJar]

53. Actually

Actually I have always considered "white trash" as a frame of mind and not a state of poverty or riches. Therefore, people with a silver spoon sticking out of their mouth can still be white trash. Ken Lay would definitely be considered "white trash" and so would all the swarmy CEO's and Bush administration garbage that are devastating our country.

[Leftist78]

54. I grew up in a trailer as well

as did many other poor people in the south. I find it disheartening that the "ignorant, racist, mullet-headed, redneck, trailer trash" stereotype is one of the last ones out there that doesn't get a negative reaction from most people.

[Ksec]

60. first married I lived in a trailer

for 3 years, in a trailer park. It was interesting to say the least. I consider it just another one of my lifes experiences which make me who I am today. Now I own my own home and it feels good.

[snoochie]

61. I agree with you completely.

It always bothers me when I see liberals talk like this. It's just wrong. I expect that kind of comment from right wingers. But from liberals I expect better.

[ldf]

66. trailer/white trash

it all depends on who is using it.

there is nothing wrong with trailers/mobile homes. they are the most efficient economical way to live. a new one is extremely well insulated, and should have a low utility bill.

but we who have lived in them (i have lived in several so far, and may live in some more, strangely i haven't seen any mobile home parks here in manhattan) can use the term honestly. we know all about what it is like to be trailer tra...er, residents.

it's like blacks calling each other nigger, or gays calling each other fag/queer. but let someone outside those groups use it and it turns into a MAJOR politically incorrect thing to do. you could say right down offensive.

so, i use it myself, but only in a more endearing way. i can truly identify with the "culture".

i would imagine that the term trailer trash is reserved more for those lovely homesteads where there are at least multiple cars up on blocks, so the multiple yard dogs will have something to sleep under, with them thar yards being unkempt yards, screaming brats running around half nekkid and dirty, clothes strung up on a line outback to dry, a few blocks doubling as the steps into the front door. if you walk around in the yard too much you may step in some chaw tobaccy, or some fresh snuff spit, which really feels great oozing up between your toes. the language used is usually barely literate, since they may seldom get very far past elementary grades, before they drop out to have to work, or to have the baby. and they usually refer to those "well-to-do" folks up the road living in them thar nice concrete homes, with a purty yard, as being richer'n four foot up a bull.

or maybe not. what would i know. :-)