The not-so-solid South.

[TheBigGuy]

The Lousiana thread sarted me thinking about Southern politics.

It seems that the South, which folks sometimes like to write-off to the GOP, isnt that solid Republican.

It seems some Southern (or Southernesque) states will vote Democratic.

Those states are:

Louisiana
Kentucky
Arkansas
Tennessee
Georgia
...and for the Southernesque states...
Missouri
West Virginia
Florida.

These states have voted for Democrats for president, and for statewide office like Senator and Governor.

So maybe its worth looking at a sort-of-southern strategy. I think that was one of the nifty things of the Clinton/Gore campaign. They had this kind of strategy, which also used a "favorite son" approach..banking that Arkansas and Tenn. would vote for two favorite sons...then adding some of the other southern states to the cinch the win.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

1. Georgia is the belly of the Beast

I doubt they'd ever vote Dem...even Zell Miller may as well be a Repub.

[TheBigGuy]

3. Hmmm is that so...

....has it always been that way. I thought Clinton carried GA in '92. That was over ten years ago...

I guess the fact that Saxbe Chambliss won against what i thought was a strong Democrat was something that suprised me...maybe times have changed in the Peachtree State.

[Eloriel]

8. Ummm, I'd suggest waiting

for the voting machine scandal to fully unwind before passing judgment on who won in Georgia and how. First Repug Gov in 130 years? Yeah, right.

Eloriel

[ChrisNYC]

10. Yeah, I'll second that

Spent my first 18 years in Georgia (left in '96, although most of my family is still there) and they aren't going Dem anytime soon. Those people think O'Reilly is a liberal. I don't even bother with them, it's a lost cause. They are the definition of Sheeple.

[Iris]

101. excuse me

but we are not all "sheeple". All of my reps are Dems. except for the ones who are voted on statewide. There are plenty of good Democrats in our state legislature who fight off all kinds of conservative junk year after year.

Furthermore, I think it's impossible to tell how much of Saxby Chambliss's success was due to the grouping of him and Sonny Purdue with Bush and his cronies and the state flag. If Sonny won because of people who don't normally vote who voted because of the flag, he will probably not get another term. Those people probably voted for Chambliss as a matter of course.

[Lefty48197]

2. Doesn't NC belong on that list too?

I thought that was one of the states where we may one day have a chance.
I think your three southernesque states are the key to the 2004 election. We really only need to win one of those three, but we should fight like hell for all three of them.
I just wish we could get a few southern states to support the Democrats WITHOUT us having to nominate a southerner to accomplish it.

[TheBigGuy]

5. Hmmm...would like to hear from some Tarheels...

..I know Edwards won, and that NC does elect Democrats as governor, but they have not been supportive of Demcorats for President, to my memory....

[comsymp]

67. Just an opinion, but

as a Tarheel born & bred, I've gotta point out that a large segment of our population is either military, military-related, Yuppie scum transplants or snowbirds... historically Republican groups. That has undoubtedly hurt the DNC on the Presidential level.

It bears repeating that we've had a moderately progressive Dem Gov for 18 of the past 26 years as well as Dem majorities in the State House for most of that time.

Also, let's not forget that Edwards' predecessor prior to Faircloth was Terry Sanford, a rather progressive (by our standards) Dem, and that our current DC delegation, House & Senate combined, is just under 50-50...

[Pepperbelly]

9. as a long time observer and citizen of one of those southern swing states

Arkansas, I have to chirp in here by noting that I do not believe it is a Southernor on the ticket that is the requirement although Bill did pull off the home-boy thing real well. Rather it is the specific dynamics of the race. People in the south, not political junkies but just everyday people, just like in the north, are easily charmed by solid feel good ads and can turn against a politician on the basis of a really negative campaign.

Dirty tactics here tend to work very well, at least in those races where republicans win. When Bill was drubbed by Frank White in 1980, we had just gone through the incidents in which some Cuban refugees who were being interned at Fort Chaffee in Fort Smith, riots broke out, a little arson, some nuttiness ... a standard riot yet in Frank White's campaign againt Clinton, who had absolutely nothing to do with what occurred at FT. Chaffee, had neither authority nor responsibility for the refugees, a ran film of the riots, black and white, slow-mo, Bill Clinton cannot keep order.

Anyway, in Arkansas, it is not so much the home-boy aspect but is instead, far more linked to the races overall dynamics and how it relates here. The cookie cutter interest group ads are of little value here.

[Gore1FL]

99. Interesting (old) article that covers this at some level:

From the DU archives:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/08/27_map.html

[tpub]

4. it MUST be looked at

Louisiana is historically Democratic, although the majority of the people here seem very conservative these days

But as I said elsewhere we are also historically suspicious of politicians because we've had so many that were corrupt.

I am new to this whole political thing, but I am basically down here waiting for instructions on what to do and willing to do almost anything to help Dems win.

Ideas, anyone?

[lkinsale]

21. Instructions!

Well, since you asked...lol...you could support/contribute to Graham's direct effort to regain these southern voters. (See my posts in this thread below.)

Click to subscribe to Graham04 on Yahoo Groups

Contribute to Graham For President Enter "Laura Kinsale" as your BobCat

[tpub]

28. LOL!

Thanks but at the moment I'm committed to Kerry. I think and read about Graham a lot, though and my boyfriend's family (from FLA) support him. We'll see how it goes. I am impressed and will watch him on MTP Sunday.

[lkinsale]

33. Oh, well then...

You can tell HIM to contribute and put Laura Kinsale down as his BobCat. (I gotta get this 1k somehow, or I won't get my little pin!)

Heh, I'm like you, new to the primary campaigns, isolated in New Mexico, and clueless but willing! ;) Go Us Newbies!

******

Click to subscribe to Graham04 on Yahoo Groups

Contribute to Graham For President Enter "Laura Kinsale" as your BobCat

[BOSSHOG]

6. Democrats in Mississippi

are few and far between (just like the teeth of gop supporters in this state), however, we are proactive sumbitches. Our number one goal right now is to get Ronnie Musgrove reelected as Governor. He ain't a liberals dream however his opponent is right wing asshole haley barbour. Ronnie is the poster boy lesser of two evils. I'll beat the bushes (no pun intended) to get out the vote for any and all democratic candidates.

[tpub]

7. yee-haw!

howdy neighbor

[lkinsale]

11. Graham has excellent chances in the south

He might not carry the seriously red states, but he will carry Florida, and his excellent rapport with rural and southern voters would give him great momentum in Alabama, Tennessee and Arkansas. He hasn't forgotten these voters--he's actively courting them.

Graham signs up specialists in Bubbas, NASCAR Democrats

Dave ''Mudcat'' Saunders and Steve Jarding proved the value of putting a country twang in politics. Now they're tuning up the Graham presidential bid..

snip

Saunders is now searching for Bubbas for Sen. Bob Graham's presidential campaign. He and his partner Steve Jarding are leading Graham's effort to attract rural voters.

Saunders met Graham a few weeks ago and says he came away convinced that the Harvard-educated senator had real experience in his family's cattle and dairy farms.

"We talked about lactation rates for Holstein cows and embryo transplants for Angus," he says. "That boy is the real deal."

Already Graham's sponsoring of the winning NASCAR Jon Wood's truck is has become famous.

I come from a Texas farming family. One important thing I can tell you. Candidates like Dean and Kerry and even Gore scare the dickens out of them. Graham would not.

I think that's critically important. I think this is a forgotten constituency that could reap huge dividends with some attention from a man they can relate to.

I am for Graham because I think he can beat Bush. He has the electoral numbers to do it. Period.

********

[Pepperbelly]

12. his NASCAR notion was pure genius ...

Leaves me saying "Doh!" and I consider myself astute politically, culturally and creatively but that was a good one.

Good for Graham.

[TheBigGuy]

15. NASCAR Democrats...

...holy cow! Now thats a concept!

[Pepperbelly]

17. Bob Graham could 'good ole boy" Bush's ass back to Maine I think ...

Bush is nothing more than a poseur and a fraud and Graham is the real deal. If geography plays much of a part in the south's electoral decision, Graham wins that hands down.

And the NASCAR thing makes such sense in a sell-the-brand sort of way. Just having the car seen by the crowds at the tracks and at home does nothing but good things for Graham with a niche of the electorate that has been sorely neglected by everyone.

[ArkDem]

103. Lyndon LaRouche

is beating Graham by 25% in fundraising. You can't win without money.

[lkinsale]

13. And another thing!

Graham seeks rural voters

Both events were part of a Graham political strategy to take the battle to the Republicans by going after a base of voters that Graham's people say the Republicans stole from the Democrats in the first place -- the rural vote.

"We're not saying we're not going to pay attention to our traditional Democratic base, but no candidate can afford to only concentrate on that base," said top Graham aide Steve Jarding. "If you go to any voter, and you say, 'I care about you, I understand your culture,' they'll respond."

Politics, Jarding said, "is not a game of subtraction. It's a game of addition, and rural America is where we can go to add to the Democratic base."

Hell yeah. (Don't tell my mother I was cussin'!)

*******

Click to subscribe to Graham04 on Yahoo Groups

Contribute to Graham For President Enter "Laura Kinsale" as your BobCat

[Dob Bole]

14. Solid South...

means solid Democratic South. The South has always been Dem since it became part of the US (again.) Alabama and Mississippi (and arguably Tennessee and Virginia) have been wooed Republican through race-baiting, but the party structure in the South is still intact. And whoever mentioned it was right, Georgia did go 130 years without a Republican governor. Fortunately, Zell Miller is going to retire.

Carter was the last Dem President to carry the Solid South, but Bush I was the last Republican to do it. States with the most registered Dems are Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Arkansas. And I think South Carolina's population is 40% black- the Dems could use some voter registration drives there.

[TheBigGuy]

19. I was wondering about that voter registration advantage.

...that was my experience in KY...the state was "Democratic" when it came to registration (w. some internal regional exceptions)...so I was wondering if that Kentuckly registration advantage carried through to the rest of the South.

One of the things that makes the GOP so competetive in places like Ohio, Indidian, Michigan and elsewhere in the Midwest is a grassroots Republican advantage in voter registration in rural and suburban areas.

[GBD4]

24. Forgot!

<<Carter was the last Dem President to carry the Solid South>>

I must confess I had to check this on http://www.uselectionatlas.org and to my surprise he carried Mississippi and Alabama and South Carolina actually 10 of the 11 "Confederate States" and then Missouri, Kentucky, and West Virginia. Funny, only VA went for Ford. Now that was 1976, but maybe Southern Dems could really have a shot at say SC with an Edwards candidacy? Or is it so close yet so far? Hmm . . .

[TheBigGuy]

27. the 1970s where good for the Dems in KY

Democratic Governor, two Senators, and most of the Congressional delegation....but Mitch McConnell began his dark ride to the top then, too....

[dawg]

106. better chance of winning NC ...

SC is a Republican stronghold.

[xequals]

32. but that was the old Southern faction of the Democratic Party

that was to the RIGHT of the Republicans, until 1964 when Goldwater redefined the GOP as the "conservative" party and LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act (which defined the Democrats as the "liberal" party).

"Democratic solid South" means "pre 1964, ultra-conservative, racist solid South".

[Dob Bole]

37. wrong again...

The South has always been more moderate than say, Montana. The major problem is not that the South has gotten more racist in the last 30 years, it's that the FDR generation has largely died. The South was one of the places hardest hit by the Depression. Boomers are more conservative than our grandparents.

[Ediacara]

74. not true

Montana has historically been pretty mod/liberal. The very strong union influence has largely disappeared in the last 20 years, but it remains one of the most liberal states in the Rockies. Utah or Idaho, ya, the south is more moderate, but Montana, not really...

[ButterflyBlood]

42. it appears a lot of the blacks in SC vote Republican

Look at their 6th district's stats in 2000:

57% black
Gore 57.4%
Bush 41.7%

My guess is that the rabid fundamentalism of the state has spread even to blacks, and they vote Republican based on social issues. I don't see it going Dem anytime soon until Bob Jones loses control.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

90. How can you say that:? They had a Dem governor because they were

pissed when Bob Jones got all the video lottery houses shut down?

[Sephirstein]

94. We need..

To force that Nazi segregationist scum to SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[WilliamPitt]

16. West Virginia is KEY

Win every state we won in 2000 + West Virginia (or New Hampshire or the other two EC votes in Maine), and we win the whole thing.

Not impossible. Gore's loss of WV in 2000 was surprising, given the state's recent national voting record. The coal industry painted Gore as an environmental extremist, and all the miners thought they'd be out of work by 2001. I'm not sure they'll be able to repeat that trick in 2004.

It's not impossible, folks. We don't need to win Florida or any of these Southern states...so long as we can bag WV or NH or ME. Any of the three + the states we took in 2004 = Bush going back to Craqford for a permanent vacation.

[Pepperbelly]

18. with Bonehead, a whole lot of those miners ARE out of work and ...

they sure as hell can't blame Al Gore for it.

[WilliamPitt]

20. True enough

:grr:

[TheBigGuy]

22. I thought Gore was going to do better in WVA, TENN, & KY.

....I was suprised that he lost those states....I was expecting that favorite son factor to carry him in Tennessee, and I figured he was a southern moderate, which would mean he could've carried WVA and KY (even tho KY has been voting more and more GOP lately).

[lkinsale]

26. I love Gore

I adore the man. So this is not a knock on him. But I can see how he can be tarred as an "effete intellectual snob." I'm not a political junkie, but I'd guess that fed into why he lost those states--Bush managed to masquerade as a good ol' boy and painted Gore as the opposite.

[VastLeftWing]

39. The GOP "win-at-any-cost" dirty tricks.....

took Tennessee from Gore's column. There were stories all over the web indicating obstruction of polling places by police, State patrol, etc. Also, Many Tenessee voters were also removed from voting rolls, but the magnitude of the Florida story kept Tenessee's story off the media scene.

I was investigating this in Tennessee, Georgia and Florida and turned over my findings to the Rainbow Coalition. You can believe that Tennessee was "stolen" from Gore, just BECAUSE it is his home state!

[tpub]

35. well, don't write us off

there are people down south who are as fed up about the current admin. as the rest of the world is, and we want to do something about it

[WilliamPitt]

38. My father is one of them

http://www.aladems.org/officers.asp

He is insisting that the Dem candidates, and the nominee in the end, campaign their assess off in Alabama. He does not expect to win, but he thinks a Dem can grab maybe 45% of the popular vote. This is important (if somewhat symbolic given the Electoral College), and the campaigns have been paying attention. Kerry's been down there a few times already.

[Syrinx]

48. Your father is chairman of the Alabama Democratic Party?

That's interesting. Are you from down here too?

[WilliamPitt]

54. Long time ago

My dad is from there, and I have spent a lot of time there.

[CMT]

79. it is worth remembering too that Alabama almost bucked the trend

in 2002 and nearly re-elected the Democratic governor in what everyone expected to be a easy victory for the GOP in Alabama. Maybe the Dems won too, but as I recall the GOP wouldn't allow a recount?

[Syrinx]

81. You are correct

It was a situation right out of Florida 2000. Siegelman had already given his victory speech. Then later that night, officials in Republican stronghold Baldwin County "found" a bunch of additional Riley votes. The blamed it on a computer problem. Hmm. Bev reading this?

[WilliamPitt]

92. Siegleman

was so profoundly his own worst enemy. His administration was getting clobbered with fraud charges that had some serious fire behind the smoke. Whatever happened in Baldwin County was put in deep shade by this. He *should* have bucked the trend, but...

[Syrinx]

93. That's true

But I still think he *won* the election.

Don't tell the Republicans, but he was almost guaranteed to have a certain level of corruption, because in college he was SGA prez, Machine candidate of course. If you know anything about the University of Alabama, you know the Machine is a bad force.

Still I supported him. But Riley is really surprising me with his progressive tax package. The funny thing is, if Siegleman had proposed it, he would have been driven out to Mississippi and dropped off.

[tedoll78]

65. Please, please, please note something!

bush's official nomination at the convention takes place after Alabama's ballot registration deadline. We will need to fight like hell to keep him off of the ballot there, thus forcing him to fight with a write-in campaign. We need those electoral votes!

[Syrinx]

95. state legislature (majority dem) extended the deadline quietly

[tedoll78]

98. Now, that's just plain sickening.

[Syrinx]

100. I agree

[DoctorBombay]

41. We got all four of Maine's electoral votes last time around.

I think all the states in 2000, plus either New Hampshire or Nevada, which seems to be trending our way. Arizona and Colorado could be had, too, but longer shots than NV.

[WilliamPitt]

55. I thought we got 3 of 5

?

[ButterflyBlood]

56. Maine only has 2 districts

and 4 EVs. We got all of them.

[NewJerseyDem]

68. One district was at risk

It has 2 congressional disticts and thereford 4 electoral votes and they went to Gore. However, I think that the one of the congressional district was pretty close.

[jiacinto]

23. I would also add Maryland to that

Maryland is a Southern state.

[Pepperbelly]

25. isn't Maryland a given?

I mean ... is it even close there? I do not remember the #s but didn't Rove pretty much cede it to Gore last time?

[jiacinto]

31. MD is a unique state

It elected Ehrlich (R) Governor last year. It is Democratic overall, but it does have Southern tendencies, especially in Southern Maryland and on the Eastern Shore. You can find southern accents there.

Marylanders will not hestitate to vote Republican nationally--as they did in 1972, 1984, and 1988--if they perceive the Democratic candidate as being too liberal.

Maryland was one of Wallace's best states. Also race was a big deal in Maryland during the civil rights era.

[depakid]

46. Maryland isn't really a southern state anymore, it's an aggregate

and even though, as you say, it has its pockets- it's still no Virginia.

While one may hear southern drawls in places, Native Marylanders have a unique accent that they share with many Pennsylvanians. It's difficult to describe in writing, but having grown up there, I can peg it in a heartbeat. It's more subtle than the annoying drawl (where every word has two syllables) and less overbearing than Jersey and NY City, but a good listener can hear it plainly. Especially in in "o" words like "snow." ;)

[jiacinto]

47. I grew up in MD

I have lived in MD for roughly the last 19-20 years of my 25 year life. MD has Southern tendencies to it.

[depakid]

69. Some parts do-

Mainly in the west and on the penninsula- but the major population base isn't southern by any stretch of the imagination. Travel to the south, and you'll be considered a yankee. For good reason.

[jiacinto]

71. Yes and no

In the DC suburbs you have a point. But the rest of the state is totally different.

[depakid]

73. These days

what isn't a D.C. and/or B'more suburb, other than Delmarva and the west. Hell, I have couple of friends who do the train in from Harpers Ferry!

btw: I grew up in a place called Kemp Mill- ever heard of it?

[jiacinto]

77. Yeah I have

If it is in the Glenmont/Wheaton/Silver Spring area I know of it! I grew up in Rockville.

[depakid]

84. So you and I have something in common-

We may have even frequented the same haunts- it's sometimes a small world. Personally, I'm grateful to Montgomery County for giving me a great education and turning my dyslexia from a handicap into an asset and turning me on to art, music, science, history and literature. Had I grown up elsewhere (other than maybe Oregon) I doubt the result would have been the same.

[jiacinto]

86. Yeah

Mont County does have great schools!

[Frances]

80. I can attest to the fact that Maryland has southern accents

No one commented on my accent when I lived there (I am a native Alabamian). But several people in California have commented on my southern accent. And I did run into a lot of anti-Clinton people when I visited a friend in St. Mary's.

[GBD4]

29. Not really

Maryland never became part of the Confederacy. If Maryland did secede, DC would've been completely surrounded by the Confederacy :eyes:

[jiacinto]

34. Maryland had slaves

Go to Southern Maryland and the Eastern Shore--you will see and hear Southern accents.

[NewJerseyDem]

43. Maryland has changed

It had slaves in the 1860's and a lot has changed since then. It stayed in the Union so I think that most view the south as being the 11 confederate states. Also, I don't think that Missouri is really a southern state and it had slaves, it seems to be part of the industrial midwest. And Delaware doesn't seem southern either. Also, just because part of the state is southern doesn't mean it all is. I still think politically it belongs in the mid atlantic with NJ, PA, NY, DE, and DC.

[ButterflyBlood]

45. Agreed

I wouldn't count Maryland the south, and definately not Delaware. South of DC is south to me. Missouri isn't really south either, I'd call it lower Midwest.

[jiacinto]

52. I am 25 and have spent 20 of those years growing up in MD

The other years I've spent here in DC and in PA. MD is part of the south. It is below the Mason-Dixon line.

[ButterflyBlood]

62. culturally however it is not

like Florida, at least around the Baltimore and DC areas.

[jiacinto]

70. It depends on the part of the state

I grew up in Montgomery County. The impetus in PG and Montgomery Counties is suburban. Those areas are heavily Democratic. Because government employment accounts for a significant share of the workforce the voters in those areas support Democrats.

The Baltimore suburbs are a totally different environment. While they elect Democrats to most local offices they can--and will--vote Republican in some statewide and national races. Baltimore and Anne Arundel Counties can go either way in statewide races. Howard leans Democratic but can vote Republican.

Then you have the exurban counties like Frederick, Carroll, and Harford. They are growing at very high rates. They are the fast-growing counties in the state. (One caveat: while they are growing the fastest, Montgomery, PG, Baltimore, Howard, and Anne Arundel counties are adding more residents . And probably in the next decade Montgomery County's population will pass more than 1 million).

Frederick, Carroll, and Harford counties are heavily Republican in most elections. They turned in staggering numbers for Ehrlich (R) against KKT. In fact, in the whole state, Carroll County was Ehrlich's best jurisdiction.

In those counties you have exurbia meeting rural areas. In Carroll County you have farmland and rural area being encroached upon by suburban flight from the DC and the Baltimore areas. Same for Harford and Frederick counties. Development and rural forces fight each other constantly but they all share the common affinity for the Republican Party.

But in those three counties, where you run into the rural areas, you see southern influence there. A lot of the towns have people speaking in Southern accents. You see support for NASCAR and other "southern" exploits.

You then go into the Southern part of the state and the Eastern Shore. You find tobacco and people speaking with accents. You also see Chicken/Poultry farms.

The Western Panhandle is very conservative too. That area is very rural, anti-government, and pro-gun. They are very much unlike Montgomery and PG Counties.

So, while Baltimore City and the DC suburbs are strongly Democrat, the rest of the state is not. While rural MD and the exurban areas are strongly Republican the key swing area in the state are the suburbs of Balitmore City.

[NewJerseyDem]

72. I'm going to the eastern shore in a few weeks

And I will report back my findings when I return.

[ArkDem]

104. I don't think you'd find many southerners who would

agree with you.

[Iris]

105. you are right ArkDem

I lived in MD and GA and they are entirely different places. Sure, there are some rural parts of MD that are a pretty country, but probably no more than most of the Midwest.

[depakid]

64. Just as an aside

Maryland slave labor built much of Washington, D.C. and the Baltimore riots are commonly held to be the first blood shed in the Civil War. Successionist fervor was so high that northern troops had to occupy the city under martial law for the duration of the war.

Such was the danger that it led Lincoln to suspend habeas corpus- and Francis Scott Key's grandson and a number of state legislators ended up imprisoned without formal charges or due process, thus setting the precedent for today's "legal" rulings re: the so called PATRIOT" Act and Guantanimo.

[comsymp]

85. Slaves

Just a fun bit of trivia but so did US Grant... well, Missus, actually.

[TheBigGuy]

30. hmmm...Baltimore isnt very southern.

I spend a nearly a week there. The place seemed alot like Philly.

Maybe the rural parts of the state are...I know that a Chesapeake Bay town called Deal that I vistied seemed pretty southern in feel.

Yed MD seems to be pretty solid in the Democratic camp, politically.

[jiacinto]

36. But MD will swing Republican if the a Dem

candidate is perceived to be too liberal, as it did in 1972, 1984, and 1988.

[GBD4]

40. Not exactly

Spiro Agnew was the VP in 72 and he was a Marylander, 1984 was a total Repub landslide, and Dukakis won just 10 states in 88.

Was Gore's 4th best state. In 1992, only Clinton's home state of Arkansas had a higher percentage of votes for the Dems. The comment about Southern areas, I agree wholeheartedly, but I mean even Ohio has its pockets of "Southernness" just as Florida has its pockets of "Northernness."

Besides, Montgomery and Prince George's Counties along with Baltimore are so solidly Dem that the Eastern Shore is unnecessary for victory.

[jiacinto]

49. Look at the Ehrlich (R) victory

MD can elect Republicans if the people there find problems with the Democrat.

[NewJerseyDem]

51. So can any state

There are republican governors in New York, Massachussetts, Vermont, Rhode Island, Hawaii, and Connecticut.

[ButterflyBlood]

44. I doubt it was due to being "too liberal"

1972 and 1984 were total landslides. 1988 wasn't exactly a landslide but a bad blowout, and even then Dukakis only lost by about 3 points. Maryland is safely Democratic unless we're losing so bad it's hopeless anyway.

[jiacinto]

50. MD is a Democratic state

But it can vote Republican, though.

[ButterflyBlood]

53. only in a blowout

any of the candidates with a chance of getting the nomination (eliminating Kucinich, Braun and Sharpton) will carry Maryland easily.

[jiacinto]

59. They will carry MD

But to say that MD is like the rest of the NE is to be mistaken.

[Frances]

82. As someone who handed out campaign lit

at metro stops and grocery stores in Montgomery County, Maryland, in the last two elections, I can say that the further away from DC you get, the more conservative voters you see.

A lot of women complained bitterly about the Democrats' stand on abortion. A lot of young white men were very pro Republican, as though that was the macho thing to be. Ehrlich had a lot of young white guys supporting him.

There are older Jewish residents, mostly in the down county area, who remember when neighborhoods in both Maryland and Virginia were closed to them. These people are almost always strong Democrats. These people were also concerned about the separation of church and state.

[jiacinto]

83. I agree with you

But overall Montgomery is overwhelmingly Democratic and will stay that way for the forseeable future. Because the government accounts for a large share of the workforce and provides a lot of the private industry in the area with contracts people will vote Democratic.

[MoonRiver]

57. Why oh why didn't we let them secede when we had the chance??

This country might actually be civilized if that cesspool of reactionary freaks weren't part of US. :spank:

[Dob Bole]

58. F*** you

and Jersey is civilized? We still have Victorian culture.

[NewJerseyDem]

63. Jersey is civilized

We are extremely civilized!!!!!!

How can you say that about New Jersey? We are by far the most advanced part of this country.

[Dob Bole]

66. I was partly joking...

despite the fact that I did say F*** you. I just get tired of all the broad brushing that goes on by people, as I have now addressed in my flame thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=65162&mesg_id=65162&page=

[NewJerseyDem]

60. I sort of agree

I know that the war ended slavery and obviously that is good. But, the war wasn't fought over slavery, it was about saving the union. And frankly I don't know why anyone would want the south as part of the union. But, I still think that ending slavery was worth an eternity of having the south in our country.

[MoonRiver]

76. Did we really end slavery?

IMHO, the end of slavery will occur when (at a minimum) progressive Dems have enough power in our national government to: 1.) eliminate the hideous property tax system of school funding (and give equal amounts money to ALL schools); 2.) provide national health care for all; and, 3.) make sure that every vote is counted via a paper trail.

Yes, I'm a dreamer.

[Rooktoven]

78. Speaking as one in NJ after 20 years down south

NJ seems more reasonable because there isn't a huge religous right element there. Face is, every part of country is going to have a large segment of greed-head republicans. But in the south you have that additional weight of the apocalyptic conservative evangelical element.

Not to mention NJ proximity to REAL cities, good food, museums,etc. And I came from one of the nicer states-- North Carolina, and one of the nicer (if not a bit bland and auto-centric) cities-- Raeigh. I guess I'm a Yankee at heart.

That said, I can vouch for Edwards to be a man you would want to run against Bush.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

61. That's painting a region with a broad brush

thee are just as many reactionary freaks in the Northeast or Midwest as you say are in the South. Have you ever been to New Hampshire?

[unfrigginreal]

75. Too tired to read everything posted before this...

so cut me some slack if I'm treading on covered ground.

I think that Clark would pull a significant amount of the southern vote. I actually think that he'd crush Bush...but since we don't know if he's running or not...I'd lean towards Dean. Dean??? Yes Dean, the gun issue is HUGE here in the South. I also think he relates well with common folk like me. Neither Clinton or Gore made any effort here in NC and with the transient population in the triangle area I think any Dem would have a shot if they put out the effort.

[pstokely]

87. isn't Missouri midwestern

the Southern part is basically Arkansas

[NewJerseyDem]

88. He said southernesque

I think the post was saying that it was a border state and that it had some southern influences, but I agree that it is more midwestern than southern.

[Gore1FL]

97. Its a bellwheather too

In the past 40 or so years has always gone for the person who ends up in the Whitehouse. (prior to 2000, I would have said it always goes to the winner)

[pstokely]

89. Alabama has had a Dem governor since the Civil War

haven't they

[NewJerseyDem]

91. 1986 was first republican since reconstruction

A lot of southern states are just recently electing republicans for governor. I think georgia elected first republican in 2002.

[Syrinx]

96. I wish

[DemocratSinceBirth]

102. A Few Points About This Thread

1) Dukakis lost by approximately six points 53% -47% not three points.

2) I doubt many blacks in S.C. or elsewhere voted for Bush in 00. I believe he got 8% of the African American vote. I would be suprised to see data that suggested he broke 10% in any state in 00.

3) It's critical that we are competitive in the South. If we cede the entire South to Bush we have to pull an Electore College Straight Flush to win and it allows the Repugs to focus all their resources on swing states.

[ButterflyBlood]

108. to the two things I said

1) I was referring to in Maryland, not nationwide
2) Regardless, look at the demographics in that district. Unless almost every white voted for Bush, it means that either more blacks than normal voted for him, or black turnout was low

[Hep]

107. NC

Remember, in 1992, Bush beat Clinton by less than 1% in NC. ANd we routinely elect democrats to statewide offices as well.