Excuse me, but....

[sfecap]

What exactly did Saddams sons do to the people of the USA that led to thier execution?

Did they attack us?

Personally kill Americans?

Declare war on us?

The orgasm now being experienced by the media whores is disgusting. This was an execution. 200 soldiers against 4 people? What makes these two "war criminals"? The fact that WE attacked their country?

Every day I wonder why I still live in this country....

[unfrigginreal]

1. Give me a break

They raped, maimed and tortured people of their own country. You want to cry for them go ahead, I hope most here don't.

[Demoiselle]

3. HOW DO WE KNOW

that it's really the two brothers? If those creeps are really dead, good. But how can we trust any reports on this stuff anymore?

[sexybomber]

25. i agree

Saddam had doubles. Wouldn't it make sense that Uday and Qusay did too?

[wuushew]

5. Same thing hapens in Africa everyday

Americans are not true humanitarians, we just like to feel good about defeating people we percieve as threats to us and tacking on humanitarian reasons to avoid cognitive dissonance.

[redeye]

44. It doesn't matter

The United States should set things right in Liberia. It should also have assassinated Saddam and his sons. The fact that it doesn't do one doesn't mean that it shouldn't do the other.

[atreides1]

7. Then The Iraqi People Should Decide

Then it should have been up to the Iraqi people to decide their fate.
No one is crying for these two, but we are supposed to be a country that abides by the rule of law, but it seems only when it's convienient.

While being guilty of crimes against humanity, based on the way they treated their own people, they did not commit war crimes.

And the only thing that was done today, is the creation of martyrs.
Look at our own history, the Civil War is a good example. Are the leaders of the Confederacy known as criminals or even traitors, no.
In the south as well as other parts of the US they are heroes, even
William Quantrell is looked upon as a hero.

One other thing, you have 3 men and a boy surrounded, out numbered, out gunned, and still they held out for 4 to 6 hours. All that was done today was the creation of a heroic last stand, against overwhelming forces. This is the kind of thing that will help to
recruit more people to fight against the US.

What ever happened to all of those crowd control weapons the Pentagon
talked about before the war.

[diamond14]

38. in Northern Virginia, a lot of roads are named after the traitors to

America...confederate war generals...like Lee Highway, Pickett Street, Van Dorn Street, Beauregard St., Ripley Street....it just makes me sick to drive around my own neighborhood realizing all the hatred towards Blacks....killing people so you can keep your slaves...it makes you ill...

it's sort of like being honored because you attacked the Pentagon...only in this case, these Confederates attacked an American Military Fort....

[leanings]

46. Then, please,

move north.

[karlschneider]

9. They were (if they really are dead) most likely guilty of crimes...

but isn't it the province of a court and trial to determine that ultimately? Are you suggesting the pre-emptive execution is as sanguine and acceptable as invading a sovereign country which has not attacked anyone? (Not denying they did so 12 years ago but that problem was ...uh, 'solved' back then, wasn't it?)

When Ashcroft comes to arrest you for possible terrorist support (by writing in DU) will you gleefully submit to whatever sort of 'justice' he might have in mind?

Either we are civilized or not. It sure seems we are not.
:grr:

[Cha]

10. WE aren't "crying for them"! But we're sick of these tired staged

media events to take the pressure off the real problem ...and that is fucking bush lying our way into a "war"!


:kick:

[Friar]

11. silly unfriggin

He wasn't justifying these guys or apologizing for them or "crying" over their dead bodies. He's just questioning our invading a sovereign nation and killing people who've done nothing to us. Yes, these guys are monsters but that's no justification for what BushCo has done there.

[sfecap]

13. Give ME a break....

There are lots of very bad people in this world. Are we now the police, court, jury, and executioners?

Who is next?

Is this a fine example of the so called fucking Democracy that we export?

How about we just gas all those assholes at Gitmo while we are at it?

[unfrigginreal]

15. I'll try to respond to all in this post

Look, I am and have been just as much anti-war as all of you in this instance. My point is that these folks are monsters by anyones definition. Why would we want to be defending them? I just don't get it.

Now, we have US troops over in Iraq, although we didn't think they should be there, and they're getting shot at every day. Why should't we hope that they KILL any enemies that they face there? They're not there by their choice, they're there by orders.

[Jacobin]

21. If they "kill all the enemies they face" there won't be many left

in Iraq.

They don't want us there.

There are not flowers.

We were not "greeted as liberators".

We conquered and occupied their country to steal their oil.

They are pissed.

[fob]

27. There may be some confusion on your part

I see/read of no one defending "THEM", but there are all kinds of valid arguments defending democracy as it should be practiced. If our justice system is abused by skirting the rules for the "bad" guys, how long before it's abused for the "kinda-bad" guys, which is a short step to just those "guys". I always understood that for the Constitution to work it had to apply to EVERYONE, even the KKK and the skinheads, the domestic terrorists, etc. While I also understand that Iraq is not covered by our Constitution, WE, THE PEOPLE, are bound to abide by it, WE, THE PEOPLE, should DEMAND the same of our government. If "democracy" is to be "exported", it is done so in our names, thereby attaching our RESPONSIBILITY to make sure it is done in a just manner.

NO, mr bush* YOU are NOT AMERICA! YOU are NOT authorized to reign down terror among others just because your god told you so! THAT, SIR, is UNAMERICAN!

bush* is a national disgrace

fob

[unfrigginreal]

28. Sorry Bub, you and your friend before you have it wrong

If we have troops in the field then there is NO EXCUSE to not support them. We can raise all the hell we want with the politicians at home. If you want to criticize the troops then get your ass over there and take one of their places, then you can be as democratic as you want.

[kentuck]

30. how do you define "support"...

Can you not support them by working for them to come home? We have one black wall in Washington with a whole lot of names on it...I don't think we need another.

[fob]

47. Please clarify wherein I "failed" to support the troops.

As far as criticism of the troops, I have as much right to do as much of that as I see fit. Your notion that I can only participate in democracy if I am "over there" is ridiculous.

Maybe you should read my original post again.

[Not a robought]

52. I believe this an environmental response

because life is cheap in America.

[sfecap]

14. Don't you find it a bit odd...

...that 200 soldiers couldn't go in and arrest three adults and a teenager? If the sons are the monsters you claim they are (and I don't doubt it...) wouldn't it be a bit more appropriate to apprehend them and try them before the Iraqi people? Wouldn't that send a clearer message to the people we claim to want to "liberate"?

Why execute them?

Is it really them? Earlier today, the report was that were burned "beyond recognition..." now the claim is that they were ID'd by Saddam's secretary. You ever seen a burned and charred human body?

This is bullshit.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[Set]

31. Ummm...

because they had a well-reported weapons-fetish, apparently had plenty of ammo, and didn't want to be taken alive?

It's difficult to arrest somebody shooting at you with a submachinegun....even a gold-plated H&K MP-5. While it looks like a "pimp's gun", it still shoots.

If you get into a shootout with US police in the US, odds are excellent that you're going to die. If that happens here (and it does, with depressing frequency) what would make you think it would be different in a war zone?

[Jacobin]

20. Then why not arrest them?

Even murderers, rapists and those who commit mayhem get a trial before they are executed and imprisoned.

My opinion is that this country is out of control and on a militaristic jag, hellbent on blowing up people and things in misplaced retribution for 9/11.

This stuff is out of control.....blowing up al jazeera's news bureau in Baghdad and killing two reporters, invading Syria and killing 80 of their people.

Not to mention invading Iraq to steal its oil on a pre-text.

[fishnfla]

23. the same could be said for Kobe Bryant

and that college kid who killed his teammate.
It could be argued that they are more of a threat to Americans.

[sugargoose]

32. My feelings are similar to those of the death penalty

I think there is a certain degree of reverence due at the end of any life. I believe that the purpose of sentences should be to protect from harm and/or to rehabilitate. Punishment creates a cycle of vengeance.

Jubilation over any death makes me feel bad. It reminds me of scavengers or vultures or creatures running around mad with blood dripping from the mouth.

On the one hand, it's good that the atrocities that these 2 men are accused of will no longer be committed by these 2 men. I don't feel sorry for them. On the other hand, terrible things happen all over the world, every day, by leaders and by common people.

Finally, there is a law against assasinating the leaders of other nations, from the Ford presidency. Have the reasons for that changed? If so, is it only in this case?

It just seems as though this administration has a great deal of disregard for all the rules of society that we have come to know. They make them up as they go along. I don't like living with that uncertainty. I don't like them using the death of 2 among thousands of terrible people as justification for all that they do that is also wrong.

[rustydog]

35. We cannot overlook their acts of evil...

But Bush and Co. are trying to make something look good out of an illegal invasion of a nation that did not have Weapons of Mass Destruction. ( Shit, we can't even find TRACES of the crap!)
The illegal invasion cost the lives of hundreds of American troops and an estimated 10,000 Iraqis!
WHO is the EVIL ONES here? A dead Iraqi by Bushes hands is just as dead as one by Saddam's sons, or are you too happy for their "liberation"?

[Brian Sweat]

50. DId they really do this

I am not trying to defend them, but we have been fed so much propaganda in regards to Iraq, that I have a knee jerk tendency to doubt claims like this.

[JohnKleeb]

2. these guys were horrible I am sorry

I think you should ask What did the civilians of Iraq to do die? They did nothing. These guys werent good guys I know.

[leftyandproud]

16. you don't even need to

say you're sorry.

Some people just deserve to die.

I wonder what we'd be saying if these monsters will killed under a Gore administration. Be honest--We'd be celebrating

[sfecap]

17. Which people in which country need to die next?

Liberia? Pakistan? Iran? N. Korea? Syria? Cuba?

Which?

[Kellanved]

4. I won't cry for them

I would have prefered a trial, though.

However: I don't think, that those guys were worth the $15 million bounty each. Not to mention the lives of American soldiers.

[Friar]

12. trials are so 1990's

We don' need no stinkin' trials! We are BushCo, fear us.

[glarius]

6. Lowering yourself to the level of the Saddam Husseins of the world is not

worthy of America...They were horrible people but I agree with sfecap. All this gloating and bragging about killing these young men and a teen aged son of one of them is very unseemly....Sorry, but that's how I feel!

[Cha]

8. "The Country" I love ...it's the temporary government that sucks

big time!

The media whores are being typical media whores. It's the same way they salivated over bush on the aircraft carrier, the first bombs of the attack on Iraq, Poor Jessica Lynch and ad infinitum!

We have a pool going as to when they will discover the sons are still alive! :kick: :toast:

[linazelle]

18. Just listened to a one-sided account by WLS Radio Chicago/ABC affiliate

Said Uday was particularly evil: they raped women picking them out randomly and had them brought to them for sex; had his uncles killed; killed potential olympians for not performing up to standards; worshipped porn....blah blah blah

One thing they didn't say was WHEN he did all this.

[rman]

26. it's the old "never mind WMDs, we got Saddam (well, nearly)"

[12 12 2000]

29. Applause on Fox

While getting my car serviced I was held captive in the customer lounge, which had Fox on .... when some blonde talk show girlie announced the murders of the sons most of the audience applauded. I was so sickened by the response. Protected, self-satisfied, ignorant, very small minded people responding to the murders of other human beings IN THEIR NAME by the government they apparently so well deserve. I agree. Time to ex-patriate.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

34. Nice attitude, SouthernGent

Many people feel that this isn't the country they grew up in. My dad (Korean War Vet, purple heart, 12 years in the Air Force) feels this way at 70 years old. If you haven't noticed how this country has changed for the worse, you must be part of the problem.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

37. Well, you've come here with that mindset

and offered nothing but personal attacks and baseless arguments.

You do have a right to an opinion, however, this forum is for Democrats and not troglodytes.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[berry]

40. If you believe that Americans (not only you) have the right to

hold and express their own opinions, why tell someone that s/he should leave the country for criticizing it? Yes, s/he said it was time to leave, but (frankly) that's her/his decision and has nothing to do with you. And, whether you'll admit it or not, your comment was hostile. Why are you so angry? It's quite unbecoming.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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[DisgustipatedinCA]

45. Hello there, Mr. Einstein

"Your" is a posessive pronoun, e.g., your car, your keys, your idiotic statement.

"You're" is a contraction of "You" and "Are", e.g., you're an idiot, you're uninformed, if you're questioning..., and so on.

But on to the main point. No matter how vociferously you suggest that those who don't agree with your point of view leave the country, you can't do shit about it. The original poster, me, you, everyone else, we all have the right to think and say whatever the hell we want.

And there's NOT ONE FUCKING THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!

Are we clear on that point? Anyone who tells me I should leave the country can bite me and just deal with the fact that they have absolutely no say in the matter. As the lovely republicans say, Get Over It. Or get an ulcer. Either way, I don't care.

Oh, and welcome to Democratic Underground.

[agincourt]

42. I still wish they'd been captured alive

so that while the band played, and the red, white and blue flew, bush could have put on a ten-gallon hat, his flight suit, a giant dildo and said "Odai, you my steer now..............."

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[rman]

48. they were (are) not nice guys

nor is Saddam. nor is the Bushco gang.

many Iraqies probably are (would be) relieved to see them go. though they probably wonder which evil will replace them.

thing is, it doesn't make the war right. especially since taking out these guys was not the reason to go to war in the first place.

[librechik]

49. IMO they were killed BECAUSE they had so much to tell

wouldn't want the media to hear of any ARRANGEMENTS the Hussein family had over they years with the BUsh family, no would we? That's why they had to be murdered and the GIs not told who they were killing in advance. Any reasonable person would insist on their live capture--after all, how else can we find Saddam and the WMDs?

It's obvious with these assasinations at last that there are NO WMDs to worry about, or else WMDs would have been the first consideration over a revenge killing like this obviously is (esp after reading some of the threads here--why of course we should kill them immediately without trial, this is the wild west and Bush is the evil sheriff, right?)

I don't know why I'm surprised that so many will abandon the Rule of Law when "provoked"

Sad

[Blue_Chill]

51. comments like these are getting old

Instead of surrendering they fought and thus were killed. Cry me a fuckin river.

[dpbrown]

53. Extrajudicial murder is a sign of a despotic regime

And now we've proven that we're just like them.

As to the murder of Saddam Hussein's sons and grandson, it seems to me as if we learned from the PNAC neocon warmongers that when a nation tortures and murders its political enemies instead of according them justice and a trial, that justifies the invasion of the country and the deposing of its leadership. As such, he's invited *more* extra-national attacks on our country, either by nation-states or by independent actors - making us even *more* unsafe, not that he gives a rat's ass about our safety.

Bush's insistence on murder, whether for revenge or for taking care of loose ends, instead of ensuring that even the most allegedly wicked people get a fair trial, puts him in the same throne that we were supposed to hate President Hussein for. Because none of the weird stories surrounding the Hussein brothers ever had to stand up in court, this opens up (even more than was already opened by the "Anti-christ Administration") the potential for *anyone* to become a target of a concerted campaign of lies and innuendo, leading to a lynching in the public opinion, and a nonjudicial execution of sentence by the military or some other arm of the executive branch.

Hamdi and Padilla are already citizens who have been stripped of their rights by this method of guilt by innuendo. The British and Australians held at Guantanamo who are threatened with a nonjudicial death sentence if they refuse to confess should remind everyone of the bizarre "Inquisition" nature of this twisted and perverse, pathetic excuse for an administration the neocons have spawned (everyone should consider stories we've all heard of "witches" who were proven innocent by drowning or being crushed by stones - if they'd have survived, they'd have been supernatural, and hence would have been burned as a witch). Bush's "execution without trial" means of eliminating competition in Iraq to the continued occupation and annexation of Iraq and its resources is only one example, therefore, of the total lawless nature of his continued dictatorial overthrow of justice, liberty, and freedom in our nation and the rest of the world.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[jagguy]

54. they were in charge of portions of the army

that makes them military which makes them legit targets.

The answer is that yes they were responsible for attacks on American/coalition forces. They WERE bad boys not only against their countrymen/women bt us as well.

[Not a robought]

55. Can targets be legitimate in an illegitimate war? n/t