"You shouldn't have taken your son to that march!"

[liberalhistorian]

This was the crap I heard from one of my son's teachers when I picked up the phone at work yesterday. My 12-year-old son and I participated in the march and rally in Washington, D.C., this weekend.

My son is as political as I am, WITHOUT ANY ENCOURAGEMENT FROM ME. He saw me getting involved and began studying issues and politics on his own, including magazines and newspapers. He was so incredibly excited about being in the march and being able to exercise his right as an American to express his beliefs and opinions in our nation's capital, the heart of our ever-diminishing democracy. He is particularly concerned about the Patriot Act and the various versions of the TIA (Total Information Awareness) program, and has done a lot of research on his own on these issues. So, in other words, he is definitely NOT a pawn that I have manipulated for my own use. He's very strong-willed and has a very strong mind of his own, with his own opinions and beliefs (we disagree on some issues, such as abortion, for instance).

So I was extremely upset to get that conference call from his teachers and the principal yesterday. They now want me to come in for a conference with all of them on Thursday afternoon. Apparently, he's been talking about the march and rally at school, and being a little "too political." His math teacher told him, "this is math class, not social studies class."

Now, I agree that there's a time and place for everything and that it wasn't appropriate for him to do nothing but constantly talk about it and disrupt his classes. And we will certainly be discussing that, and it will be made clear to him. But I will NOT be told by his teachers or anyone else that I had no right to take him to the march, and that I must teach him respect for the presidency. I asked her how I could do that when we don't currently have a legitimately elected president and the current "president" blatantly stole the election. Total silence on the other end of the phone. "We'll talk about it at the conference", she finally said. You goddamn well better believe we'll be talking about it, lady, I thought. Because I've frankly had enough of you people. And I've especially had enough of them telling me that I'm teaching him the wrong things politically, and that I shouldn't have taken him to the march and rally, or any other political gathering/demonstration!

My mom told me that he was extremely upset when he came home from school yesterday, he went straight up to his room and just lay on his bed, she had to go up and talk to him and calm him down. He then called me at work and we talked for awhile, we're very close so I managed to calm him down and make him feel better.

What really pissed me off was that they didn't stop at telling me that I shouldn't have taken him to the march, they actually told him that as well, that "your mother should have known better than to have taken you." Now, just how the hell do they think THAT made him feel??????????? Then his fucking art teacher told him Clinton was a far worse president and asked him "didn't his sex scandals bother you?" HELLOOOOOOOOOO???????????????? Is that something you as a teacher should ask a sixth-grader? But I was so proud of him, he fired right back, "which is worse, lying about sex or lying about getting us into the war and getting people killed for nothing?" That shut his art teacher up for awhile, although I'm sure he'll have plenty to say on Thursday! I couldn't help but laugh when he told me that.

But isn't that just a bunch of BULLSHIT? I will NOT BE TOLD BY TEACHERS AND PRINCIPALS what I should and should not teach my son and what he should and should not believe! And the other kid's parents are apparently getting upset as well. Well, TOUGH SHIT! I have the feeling that if I'd taken him to an anti-Clinton march they would have been beaming with approval! I'M SO SICK OF WINGNUTS IN SCHOOLS!!!!!!

[theivoryqueen]

1. that is really awful

Back in the early '80's in Texas, we were being warned even then that the conservative coalition (the bible thumpers) had targeted school boards and admin positions for their first wave of political gains. They lobbied hard and took over a lot of territory, and we've not been able to shake them since. This is the kind of thinking these folks wanted to espouse, and they rightly figured the school systems as the best, and earliest forum to advance their causes. I am ashamed to say we didn't do more to fight them.

[liberalhistorian]

9. Unfortunately, the same thing has happened here in Ohio.

The problem was, it was, indeed, a stealth campaign, so that by the time we realized what was happening it was too late to stop it. I'm thinking about running for the school board myself in a few years.

[Arianrhod]

28. Yes, this has been their tactic.

Immediately after they lost their Creationist case in Alabama in January of 1981, they began targeting local elected offices. They ran stealth campaigns in which they presented themselves as moderates, and then began instituting a right-wing agenda as soon as they got into office. (Sound familiar?) They are deceitful people, and not to be trusted.

I admire your willingness to stand up to them. One small whisper of advice, if I may: Don't go in angry, and don't let them get you angry. That's their goal. Anger merely justifies their position in their own minds. Plus, they do actually have enough power to make your life uncomfortable, so don't give them the chance.

BTW, it pisses me off, too. The hypocritical louts.

[BiggJawn]

134. My daughter's principal told me to have her PASTOR talk some "sense" ...

...into her (during her "Goth Period")..I informed him "We don't have a 'pastor', we're not christian."

"Oh, that explains a lot...Well, good day, sir...."

Then they had the school corporation social worker ("so called "Psychologist") talk to her.

[liberalhistorian]

143. Oh, for God's sake, who the hell

do these people think they are, anyway? What, because you're not Christian, you're not a "true" American? As a liberal Christian, that makes my blood boil! I hope you told that principal where to put it.

[Arianrhod]

145. Be prepared for more of this.

The country seems to be out of control when it comes to religion, and the current Crusade isn't going to help matters. Not to mention that * tried to ban Wicca while "governor" of Texas, while his father remarked that atheists "can't be citizens"--during his term as president.

Freedom of religion is one of the strongest of our founding principles, and to see it eroded away like this is very disturbing.

[Mairead]

137. "they presented themselves as moderates"

The secret is not to vote for 'moderates', vote for 'leftists'. Because the rightwing nutters can't fake being leftists, but they can fake being 'moderates' because there's relatively little difference that would come out in a carefully-steered conversation.

The 'lefties' are the real moderates--we're the ones who believe in live-and-let-live, and if that isn't real moderation, what is?

[Arianrhod]

144. That makes sense.

I'm actually vacillating between Dean and Kucinich right now. I like Dean's fire, but Kucinich actually stands for more of the things I believe in. I'm beginning to think I should go with my heart instead of my head next year. Of course, a D/K or K/D ticket would be killer.
:)

[BurtWorm]

2. It is a bunch of bullshit.

Who trains these constipated farts? And they say lefties believe in the government as nanny!

[catzies]

66. The answer to your question: RALPH REED

trained those constipated farts.

Another reason why stealth campaigns are successful esp. at the local level is that those offices are non-partisan. No "D" or "R" next to names makes it difficult to determine where a candidate is coming from so to speak.

[kimchi]

3. Give 'em hell.

YOU are raising your son the right way. Good for you for not allowing them to undermine your authority.

Stand up to the bullies!

[liberalhistorian]

12. Thank you, and I intend

to do exactly that! I've been too nice all my life, and I am DONE with being nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice got us the repukes in control of everything. Nice got us the repukes in control of the media while successfully blaming us for everything. Nice got us Shrub in the WH, since Gore didn't challenge things like he should have and we allowed the repuke thugs to intimidate the process. NO MORE NICENESS!

[Robb]

60. Call the papers

...And be ready to let them have it!

[calimary]

100. YES! Call the papers, call the school board. CALL THE ACLU!

Make a STINK, liberalhistorian! Could you sue for violation of his freedom of speech? For harassment? How big a stink could you make about this? It certainly deserves this. AND MORE!!!

I'd be in the principal's office in the morning, with my lawyer by my side, if that happened to my kid. Write them letters, cc'ed to your attorney, and the local papers. That'll make the blood drain from their faces, thinking that others have been witness to their dressing-down. DON'T LET THIS GO!

I'm with you, liberalhistorian. The Dems have lost too much ground trying to play nice, trying to get along, trying to take the high road, and NOT fighting back. When our people make nice, they get rolled over. Time for a change in tactics. A bully only bullies until it's kicked back in his/her face. They're probably assuming you'll just take it like a nice mommie and go away, suitably chastened and taught a good lesson. Go, thou, and teach THEM a good one!

[Darth_Kitten]

140. Yes, call the papers....

how dare these people tell you how to think, raise your child,etc.
If your son can't be political, then how come the teachers can be?
Self-serving hypocrites. :evilfrown:

You go GIT em, Liberal.:nuke: :) Remember we are all on your side. :hi:

[La_Serpiente]

4. RIGHT ON

TELL THOSE RIGHT WING MO FO'S TO SHUT THEIR TRAP BEFORE THEY GET A FIST IN THEIR FACE. HOW DARE THEY PATRONIZE YOUR SON LIKE THAT, ESPECIALLY THE ART TEACHER.

Where do you live? Is it pretty conservative?

[liberalhistorian]

14. I live in Ohio, in a suburb of

Cleveland. Cleveland itself is fairly liberal, but the suburbs are way too conservative.

[Logansquare]

59. I grew up near Mansfield, OH...

I remember that 12 years ago, during Halloween celebration at my niece's public school, students were told that they couldn't wear any "satanic" costumes--you know--witches, devils, ghosts...
She decided to come as a showgirl (mostly so she could wear makeup and fishnet hose), and that was FINE with the principal.

[liberalhistorian]

65. Yep, that's Ohio for ya!

n/t

[ShaneGR]

96. Gees, I grew up in Green, south of Akron.......

I vividly remember being the devil every halloween for like 5 years. I actually had a 'satan' comedy shtick at every door!

KNOCK ON DOOR
SOMEONE ANSWER
ME: "The devil has come to get his due."

Some weird looks, but lots of laughs.

Of course, some towns in Ohio have like 50k population, but only 3k are actually not behind bars in the local penitentiary.

[prolesunited]

41. I hardly think

threatening them with violence is the right course of action. She certainly should make her points and stand her ground but resorting to threats certainly wouldn't help matters any.

[Bronco69]

5. Make sure you let us know

how the conference turns out. I can hardly wait to find out!

[liberalhistorian]

16. I will certainly do that!

n/t

[DoNotRefill]

101. oops, my bad....

you'd already answered my question above

[Caution]

6. Bring a tape recorder

record the conference, then alert whateve liberal columnists happen to be in your area and have them write the story up. But by all means records the conference. These people may eventually try to get your kid expelled and having a tape recording of the conference gives you some ammunition if they try it.

[Lars39]

13. Is there someone you can bring with you as a witness?

Sounds like your going to be outnumbered right off the bat. I like the tape recorder idea, too, 'cause it sounds like a witch hunt, not a normal "Johhny misbehaved today" conference.

[liberalhistorian]

21. Tape recorders and witnesses are both

good ideas that I should have thought of myself. I will definitely consider both.

[IrateCitizen]

25. Make certain with the tape recorder that you do the following

1. Put it out on the table at the very beginning, in plain view.
2. Inform everyone present that you will be taping the discussion.
3. Immediately after turning it on, get everyone attending to state their name and that they are aware that the conversation is being taped.

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

73. exactly ! You must have tape recorder in plain view

In some states - it is against the law to tape record
conversations without the other parties knowing.


Treat this as a lawyer would -- tape record everything

Tape record your telephone too - again- notify other party
that you are recording. ON the recording state the parties names.

[DoNotRefill]

99. Either that...

or try to have custody taken away for putting him in a dangerous situation...They tried that here with a woman that was a lesbian, said she was endangering the welfare of the child.

[Scott Lee]

7. Welcome to the GOP vision of public education

You just got a taste of the sort of "teacher" the conservatives want to see replace all them terrible lib'ruls at the NEA: some pseudo thinking knee jerk lemming for the right, ready and equipped with witless platitudes to set your son on the "straight and narrow".

I hope you let this bitch have it with both barrels. You know I've read story after story of kids and parents getting in trouble with their schools for expressing anti-Bush sentiment. It appears that Clinton bashing as an excuse for Bush's war crimes are acceptable to the wingnut teachers and maybe even their administration.

Have you started following this all the way up the chain yet (principal - school board)?

[Lars39]

8. The issue was your son talking at innapropriate times or disrupting

the class by talking. What he was talking about is irrelevent. How and what you teach your child politically is none of their damn business. Don't let them sidetrack the issue with THEIR political views. If the issue was your son being disruptive, that is what the focus should be. Cut them off at the pass; don't even allow it to get political. Would they be all over your case about where you took him, if you had taken him bowling instead?

Respect for the "President"? :mad:

[Stuckinthebush]

24. Lars is exactly correct

Do not let the issue become political. If they do bring politics into it, say, "That is not the issue here. If my son is disrupting class by talking, then we can address that issue easily. Your political views do not take priority over his or mine, so let's not even go there in this conversation. I have raised a very intelligent and thoughtful son who is extremely concerned about the direction of the world and the United States. Wouldn't this country be a much better place if all 12 year olds took as active an interest in political and justice issues. Now, as to your concern with his talking at inappropriate times...."

They will try to intimidate you as they intimidate students. You will see that the teacher and/or principal will be seated behind a desk, and you in a chair in front of them. They will then start by telling you how much they like your son, however, there are some disturbing trends in his behavior. Don't let this intimidate you. Go straight for the issue, hammer it, be the first to suggest an "intervention", defuse any political commentary, control the discussion, and control the end of the discussion.

Good luck! Tell your son how proud this community is of his actions.

[liberalhistorian]

29. It won't just be one teacher and the principal,

it'll be ALL of his teachers (6) and the principal! That's why I'm glad for the tape recorder suggestion, otherwise, they'd probably just try to intimidate the hell out of me.

[Stuckinthebush]

34. Oh, hell...screw 'em!

That pisses me off to no end!

Fine...control the conversation, go around the table and directly speak to each teacher by saying, "Was my son speaking in a disruptive manner in your class, and if so, how do you define disruptive?" Then, let them tell you what he "did", express your understanding, and then ask, "It sounds to me like some of this disruption is not in his timing, but in his message, is this correct?" Then let them hang themselves by saying, "Yes".

I say we all fly to Ohio and go to the meeting with you for moral support!

Damn, I'm pissed.

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

78. DO NOT MEET With All 6 teachers at same time. REFUSE TO !

Meet with his teacher, and 1 other administrator.

There IS NEVER a reason to have so many at the same meeting..

..sounds like they are in "witchhunt" mode.

Set the terms yourself, within reason, 1 teacher, 1 or 2
administrators at maximum.

[calimary]

102. Do you have an attorney friend who can accompany you -

ALONG WITH that tape recorder that, absolutely, you SHOULD bring with you?

[greekspeak]

116. I agree with the suggestion about lawyers

You really need an advocate. I am not sure when school faculty became so downright vocal about being StepfordServatives. If it got much uglier, I would be yanking my kid out of there and homeschooling him or her. And I am a BIG believer in the public school system.

[blondeatlast]

125. 6? Definitely bring in an interested 3rd party--that might keep

things more above board.

[gristy]

126. I just don't understand this.

Why the full court press? This seems very unusual. There's something else here, and I don't know what it is.

[LeahMira]

155. Take someone with you...

You said your mother was at home during the day... can she come with you?

Is your son invited to this conference? He certainly should be present at least for some of it.

I'm sure the school people have some "understandings" that they want to come out of this conference. Go in with your own list of "understandings."

Make sure you know exactly what the school's problem is. Take notes if you need to, and when they all have said their piece, then you restate what they told you in your own words. Be sure that everyone agrees about what's at issue.

Don't let anyone intimidate you! They may be the experts in educating children, but you are the expert mom! You don't have to agree to anything right then and there if you don't want to. You can always just say that you need some time to think over and sort through what they have said.

Above all, please remember that this meeting is NOT a referendum on your parenting skills.

[liberalhistorian]

26. If he was being disruptive, that's exactly what I plan

to put the focus on. I agree that he may have been talking at inappropriate times and could have therefore disrupted some classes, and THAT is what I will make them focus on, not actually WHAT he said.

If they try to make the focus WHAT he said and not WHEN and HOW he said it, however, as I'm afraid they will, they can all go fuck themselves and they'll hear a cheerful earful from me. I will deal with the issue of him being disruptive, making sure he knows that there are times and places for saying things, and that he knows when to talk and when to keep quiet.

[blondeatlast]

124. Good advice--keep the conference on track, don't let them

sideswipe you. I know you are very smart; you know the law; you can do this!

[RebelOne]

10. All I can say is that I am flabbergasted.

How dare they say that to you! I'd be mad as a wet hen, too. Please keep us posted as to what happens at the conference.

[Paschall]

11. Might I suggest you take a witness with you...

...to the meeting. An attorney friend or somebody from the ACLU perhaps? Just as "company" so to speak. Might help you keep some balance (cause I know I would go straight off the deep end if I had to face such total BS). And it might also squelch what sounds like the other side's rather brown-shirt approach.

[sangh0]

19. I 2nd that recommendation

What's said at an oral discussion isn't worth the paper it's written on if you don't have a credible witness.

[Stuckinthebush]

27. I 3rd it...

The presence of a third party acts as a great diffuser. Also, it can protect you and your son legally. If you have a friend or know someone connected with the ACLU, bring her/him. Introduce her/him as an ACLU lawyer, and that since the telephone conversation suggested that there may be a free speech issue, you thought it best to bring an expert with you.

As I mentioned above...control the discussion!

[cally]

35. Yes, bring someone else to the meeting

and I would try to let them lead the discussion.

I know that when I was demanding special ed for my child, I contacted a child advocacy group who offered to come to the meeting. I decided against it but in your situation I would accept their help.

On the chair issue and power plays: I learned to just say I was uncomfortable with the layout and I wanted to sit around a table and discuss the issue as adults working together. The administrator would always look very uncomfortable but was too embarrassed to insist on the pre-arranged seating.

[liberalhistorian]

39. My son has Asperger's Syndrome, a type of high-functioning

autism, so I am, indeed, familiar with meetings to get him the educational services he needs, and I know what you mean!

[Wickerman]

48. Do you have a caseworker?

If so, is he or she friendly to you and your son? My wife works with Asperger's kids and she would go to a meetign like this to make certain the kid's rights were protected. In Minnesota all kids, regardless of wealth of parent, are offered case management -d on't know how it is there. If your caseworker exists and is an advocate for your kid make certain they come.

[liberalhistorian]

56. No, unfortunately I don't have a caseworker for him.

He's been doing so well these past few years that he hasn't needed one, but I see now that that may very well have to change.

[Yupster]

53. Oops - didn't know your kid was

a special needs kid when I made my first post.

Let me add two things.

They may be required to do a formal type of meeting to document contacts with special needs kids. In Texas they're called ARD's. That may be why so many people will be there. It just may be required because of his situation.

On the other hand, the fact that he is a special needs kid, and this looks like a formal to be documented meeting, I would be suspicious that some decision has been reached and you are to be informed about it. Something like mainstreaming, or the such.

My guess is it's probably choice A, but I'd still be wary at the beginning of the meeting to see if they are just here to tell me to curb my kid's disruptions, or am I here to be informed of a major change that I probably won't like.

Either way, I wouldn't expect politics to come up from their side at least.

[salin]

91. Not so sure

given that one of the teachers involved started debating (and baiting?) the son, instead of just calling his attention back to his work. That is the part of the post that really caught my eye.

[Yupster]

95. Well, if the principal

allows a parent conference to turn into a debate on the merits of the current president, then he'she needs to be replaced for incompetency. Principals get training on how to deal with parents and how to un meetings, and debating politics, while five teachers are away from their tasks is not an acceptable use of time.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

94. Thats very odd to me because..

..I was just reading a loooong article today about Asperger's Syndrome today for my Behavioural Genetics course, and after reading your first post, it sounded like your son would fit into the typical description of someone with Asperger's.

And personally, having never been diagnosed, I feel like I might have the characteristics of the syndrome as well!

Anyway, your son sounds like a great kid. Good luck with all of this.

[goddess40]

97. my son is borderline Asperger's / NLD

He's 10 and he is also very political. He likes to know what is going on and is frustrated that the other kids are so ignorant.

My older son is also NLD (Nonverbal Learning Disorder). He went with me on the bus to Washington and it was a very good experience for him.

[liberalhistorian]

108. That's exactly how my son feels,

"frustrated that the other kids are so ignorant." Actually, I think that's how a lot of us on here feel about the ignorance of the adults around us. Kinda makes you understand where the old saying "ignorance is bliss" comes from, doesn't it?

[JohnKleeb]

105. I'll be damned liberal historian

So do I, seriously I do, that could explain my shyness and why I am ackward around girls at school.

[liberalhistorian]

109. Do you really?

Actually, shyness is not one of the major traits of it, many AS people will talk to anyone about anything with no sense of embarrassment or anything like that. I think your shyness and especially your awkwardness around girls has a lot to do with being a teenager! And I'll let you in on a little secret-a lot of girls are actually attracted to the shy guys and shyness is often a turn-on!

[JohnKleeb]

112. Yes I do

Ive just found out in the last year. Yea it has a lot to do with being a teen. Thanks for the secret :D. I prefer it like that anyhow.

[calimary]

103. ESPECIALLY if they're going to try to intimidate you by crowding

the meeting with folks from THEIR side. That's probably why they want you to meet with all of them, en masse - six against one. Nice way to treat one of their parents, by arranging a gang-up session against her.

Take an attorney friend with you. Even if they're just a pal, or they don't specifically "represent you." Their mere presence is enough. The bad guys don't need to know the particulars. Better, in fact, if they don't. If they see YOU coming in with support by your side, that will throw THEM off-guard, which is the mind game they're trying to set up against YOU. And don't tell them beforehand that you're bringing an associate with you.

I'm no legal expert, but you could say, upon entry into the meeting, that you have legal counsel with you because you fear, or suspect, there may be a violation of civil liberties here.

MAINLY, FOLKS LIKE THESE HAVE HAD SUCH A FREE RIDE AS BULLIES THAT THEY DON'T EXPECT TO BE CHALLENGED, ANYMORE. Therefore, they are absolutely NOT ready for it when it does come.

[liberalhistorian]

111. My boss is an attorney,

(I'm his paralegal and office manager), and he likes Chris, so I'm considering asking him to accompany me to the meeting. He's conservative, but by no means a wingnut and he's a firm believer in the First Amendment.

[Loonman]

32. An attorney

Why does everybody always run to an attorney or a lawyer.


Showing up with your mom to school and an attorney in tow is a direct path to a playground beating.

Guess what, I was political and anti-Reagan in an Irish Republican household.

Did I get support from teachers, principals? No, none at all.

Did I get support from my parents? No. They said those are your opinions, and a person with honor stands by their opinions, whether we like them or not.



I wish I had a fucking ACLU lawyer to cry to when I couldn't wear my anti-Reagan T shirt.

[liberalhistorian]

37. I do kind of see your point.

I was also very anti-Reagan during high school and college (he was elected my freshman year of high school), and sometimes felt like I was the only one in my entire school who felt that way. Fortunately, my parents felt the same way and also felt isolated at work in regards to their beliefs, so there was a lot of support there.

But you're right, we all have to learn to stand up for our opinions and beliefs on our own, since there won't always be a support system there.

[Stuckinthebush]

44. Respectfully disagree

Not a damn thing wrong with lawyers. They are there for a reason, especially if there is a free speech issue.

Yes, we all need to learn to stand up for our opinions, but in this situation, there is a significant power gap. The presence of an attorney can help to close that gap. If the issue was only disruptive behavior, then I'd agree that a lawyer is too much, but when the issue is that a child's opinions do not conform to those of his teacher's, and disciplinary action is possible, a lawyer is needed.

Once the administration called a meeting with LH and all of the teachers about "behavior problems", then the 12 year old must be protected not only by his parent, but also an officer of the court.

I have seen schools run over the children and parents before in an effort to mold a child to a certain set of beliefs. That is not education, that is indoctrination.

By the way, I do wish you had an ACLU lawyer to "fucking" cry to when you couldn't wear your anti-Reagan shirt. Perhaps, you would have been able to wear it and more people would have become informed.

[Loonman]

52. You don't have free speech in school

You don't have free anything. Most schools have the loco parantaes(sp?) rules on their policy.



Now I don't know the whole story, if he was disrupting class time instead of in an open forum in say, civics class, maybe the Powers That Be have point, but at any time, whichever views you hold, somebody will challenge them.

Sometimes everybody challenges them, sometimes it's just you against the flock, but you have to prepare for that.

Me, I'm a button-pusher by nature, I know how to get a reaction, but I will not back down or call time out if someone challenges me.

[Stuckinthebush]

61. Actually, you do have the right to your opinion

even in school. You do not have the right to disrupt a class, however. That should be the issue. If the issue is that the child does not display appropriate opinions, then a court case is imminent.

Similarly, the school can't say that a child has the wrong religious opinions, and that it is the duty of the school to change those opinions.

Sometimes, school officials will try to take a lot of power because they have been given that power by communities without scrutiny. Schools do not have the power to penalize a child for his or her opinions. If those opinions are expressed during appropriate times, are not considered hate speech, and are not expressed soley to incite other students, then yes, that student does have a right to his opinion and can't be penalized for holding it.

Do not confuse free speech with freedom to speak. These are two separate principles.

It seems rather clear in this case that the school is using the charge of disruption to squelch his opinions. The charge of disruption is a separate charge that must be addressed aside from his political views. LH can easily address those charges, agree that it is inappropriate to disrupt a class, and suggest a remedy. But, the charge of "wrong opinions" is invalid even in a public school setting. The school has no power to penalize a child for opinions, and can be sued for trying.

In terms of standing up for oneself, it is very difficult for a 12 year old to face the onslaught of the negative adult gaze. There is never anything wrong with a child's parent(s) coming to the defense of a child in a situation such as this. This teaches the child that their parent respects him/her so much that the parent is willing to stand behind the child in an otherwise unwinable situation. This gives the child the confidence to respect her/his own opinion later as being one that is valuable. Also, it will help the child determine what is appropriate behavior and what is not. To let the child go it on her/his own does not accomplish the above goals as efficiently or lovingly.

[Loonman]

54. Some battles are worth fighting, some aren't

It is up to the discretionary person to decide which is called for.

[Stuckinthebush]

62. Agreed (n/t)

[blondeatlast]

128. Power gap, exactly. Don't go it alone!

[northzax]

50. I agree

leave the lawyers at home for this meeting. Simply recording it is enough. then, if there is a problem, bring an attorney. Do not escalate the situation on your own, force the school to do it.

[Atlant]

75. You'd be *AMAZED* how much "calmer" a meeting can be when...

> Why does everybody always run to an attorney or a lawyer.

You'd be *AMAZED* how much "calmer" a meeting can be when the
parties you're sitting across the table from KNOW that
you know your rights and that you will be happy to kick their
asses (legally speaking) if they try to violate your rights.

For some reason, this often assures a mature conversation
rather than a one-sided beat-down.

The "expert witness" factor (that the attorney represents)
also helps. "During the meeting at which I was present,
did you or did you not threaten Mrs. Smith with expelling
her son if he ever mentioned President Bush's name again?"

Atlant

[blondeatlast]

129. LH is a paralegal; I think she should make that clear without being

threatening.

[liberalhistorian]

132. Good point!

I've been thinking about asking my boss to come with me. He knows and likes Chris and is firm without being intimidating.

[Atlant]

142. That's *PRECISELY* what you want.

> He knows and likes Chris and is firm without being intimidating.

That's *PRECISELY* what you want.

And the legal rep there really shouldn't be you, even if you
are a paralegal, but should instead be a third party (who
can focus on listening while others are talking).

BTW, if you bring a lawyer, don't be surprised if the school
district suddenly cancels the meeting until they can also bring
counsel.

Atlant

[Upfront]

114. Tape record

your meeting, and let them know it.

[wtmusic]

15. Wow. Where do you live?

Good for you...this is a bone of contention in our household as well. When my 8-year-old son started dissing Bush one day I nailed him on it. "Why don't you like Bush?...Is it because Daddy doesn't like Bush?".

Well, he totally blew me away. Went into why the war was wrong, even said he doesn't believe Bush when he speaks on TV because he's lied so many times before, etc.

So you can bet if I hear any crap like that coming back from our school (we live in a fairly conservative community) there's going to be a conference alright....:mad:

Please keep us posted on your conference!

[proud patriot]

17. Let DUers know if we can help

We are here for you , if you need us .

[liberalhistorian]

31. Thank you!

I love DU and all of you, and I very much appreciate all the advice and support!

[Loonman]

18. If he's going to talk the talk

He has to be able to walk the walk.

[IrateCitizen]

20. Your son sounds like a special child, liberalhistorian

Don't let the system browbeat him into conformance. But also, don't allow him any illusions that being politically informed, aware and opinionated doesn't mean that he will be harshly criticized -- because he will, and he needs to learn to deal with it without losing his passion.

It sounds like you've raised him well. While the issue of him talking about it at inappropriate times is a legitimate one (as you seem to acknowledge), the school officials have absolutely NO grounds to question his or your beliefs.

Don't give them an inch, and take Caution's advice of bringing a tape recorder to the discussion. Make certain that you are open with it too -- it wouldn't hurt to have all parties acknowledge that they are aware that the discussion is being taped right after you turn it on.

[youngred]

22. That is absolute BS

but it reminds me of my days of middle school and elementary school activism. It was a pleasure to meet your son (the one post wonder) and I was very happy to see him out there fighting for what he and we all believe in. That kind of passion and purpose are SO exceedingly rare in a kid his age (hell even amongst kids my age!). They should not be trying to force their beliefs on anyone.

What exactly is he in trouble for here? Being disruptive in class, fine he has to work on that, but even in draconian schools where kids have NO rights (and believe me they don't) they still have the right to their opinion, and if these kind of fascists are the people teaching our youth its no wonder that the idiot and theif has managed a right wing takeover.

Good luck with that and don't back down!

[liberalhistorian]

33. Thanks, youngred, he really enjoyed

meeting all of you, too! Wasn't that funny the way he referred to himself as the "one post wonder", after he said his screen name? He does have a great sense of humor.

[cmf]

Give them hell.

By taking your son to the protest, you taught him more about what it means to be an American than he'll ever get from junior high social studies. Use this as a lesson to your son that teachers aren't always right and that he needs to always question authority.

[eleny]

23. You have some great son, there!

I know you'll handle the school very well. I can tell from your posting. Sure, math class may not be the place to discuss politics. But your son was just being enthusiastic about participating in the American process.

As for the teacher's remarks - totaly out of order. They're doing exactly what they accuse your son of doing. Talking politics. They need a good threat and a half. I'm sure you'll handle them. But how proud you must be of your son. And what a major lesson in social studies he's gotten from all this.

Whaere do you live - what state?

[liberalhistorian]

42. I live in Ohio, Repuke

Wingnut Central!

[Brian Sweat]

30. I am glad I did not go to the march.

I don't want to associate with A.N.S.W.E.R.

However, if you want to go and you want to take your child with you, that is your business.

If your son has a problem, and I am not saying that he does, it is that he is being disruptive in class. This behavior has nothing to do with his political views and he would be disruptive even if he hadn't gone to the rally. If you son is being disruptive in class, then they should address that issue directly. If they don't like the fact that you took your soon to the peace rally, that is their problem.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. it is NONE of their buisness!...PERIOD..just as religion

it is your right to teach your values and principles to your children and i would consider litigation against them for interference of your parental rights and putting the seeds of fear of school authorities in your child....i thought it was the schools job to teach civics and involvement in government affairs?

take a witness with you and also record the meeting...inform them that you intend to record all that is to be said and done at the meeting...damn it call the media

[LTR]

38. I salute you!

You have an intelligent child that is able to form his own thoughts and has a grasp of what's going on in the world. You both should be commended!

The fact that teachers are giving him a hard time AND calling you about "the march" is truly appalling. It's none of their business.

And to the teacher who hates Clinton: It was not about sex. It was a persecution of Clinton for being a Democrat.

Best of luck to the both of you. You are both in the right (meaning 'correct', of course) on this issue.

[CWebster]

40. Yeah and then they go and vote for Bush

who cuts funding for education and tries to push policies to thwart teachers' unions.

The art teacher...really? Usually they are the first to go under the Republican knife.

[Yupster]

43. After hundreds of parent conferences, my guess is that

the teachers will not want to talk about politics with you.

They have already decided you are a whacko, and hopefully not, but maybe your kid too. They aren't going to want to argue about that with you. They probably don't want to argue about anything with you. You probably scare them if anything.

In my opinion, your biggest worry is that your kid gets a reputation among the teachers. "Watch out for Jimmy. His dad's some kind of communist radical or something. Has the kid brainwashed, so be careful around him."

My guess is taht at this meeting, they will ask for your help in curbing "inappropriate or disruptive" talk in class. The math teacher will say that she has enough trouble trying to teach basic algebra to 24 kids without debating the war in Iraq.

The only other thing I would anticipate is they may hit you with excused versus unexcused absences. They may even have a policy that unexcused abcenses have to be made up during recess or something.

[cally]

45. Document everything in writing

My child's elementary school principal who was about to retire gave me that advice. I would be ignored in meetings and in phone calls. As soon as I started writing letters and sending copies to the district, then everything changed. If I were you, I would draft a letter right now. Write down every comment made to your son and to you. Send it to the teachers, the principal, the Superintendant, and the district lawyer. Say that if your son is disrupting class that you object, but most kids do share where they went on vacation, what happened at the soccer game, and how much fun the weekend at Grandma and Grandpa's was. Your son shared what he did this weekend and it was important to him. Ask them to show the written policies saying that a child cannot state his political beliefs or that he does not support this president. Ask what the policies are regarding teachers espousing their political beliefs to their students and telling a student he can't state his political beliefs. Remember focus on written policies. Say that you have taught your child to follow the rules, you support all beliefs, but you cannot teach your child unless the rules are consistent. Deliver it before the meeting and then just take over the meeting. Ask them to address your concerns instead of you addressing theirs.

I think they will backtrack so far that you will walk out of that room laughing.

[Lars39]

51. I like this idea.

Because once in the conference, the teachers might actually just stick to the problem of him disrupting, and LiberalHistorian really needs to somehow get across to them that trying to foist their political views onto her son was innapropriate. Time is short, though. She might have to hand deliver the letters.

[xxqqqzme]

46. Go get 'em!

I had 2 confront these locked imaginations twice - one on each coast, once 4 my daughter, once for my son. Both times I walked away feeling soooo much better partly because the teachers/principals retreated when I stood up 2 the bullying tactics and I knew my kids were safe from the snide asides & comments.

Good luck on Thursday. Let us know what happens.

[AWD]

47. What time, what school???

If I can be there, I'll join you in this conference.

[RetroLounge]

70. I was just thinking that you would be a good "witness"

eom

[blondeatlast]

130. Please wear the Lucha Libre outfit, willya?!

Edit: oops.

[OKNancy]

49. You sure have had a lot of trouble where you live

I remember that you got robbed at gunpoint, and that your son got in trouble for making remarks about 9-11....

But about the art teacher?? Has he changed? Because I also remember that you said this:

-----------
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=369070

I've written before about my 12-year-old sixth grade son's progressive views and his getting in trouble at school for criticizing Shrub to a couple of friends on the 9/11 anniversary last week.

Well, I talked with the principal and the teachers involved and got a few things straight and made a few things clear, so that seems to be taken care of for now. I attended his open house last night, and I thought you'd get a kick out of what his art teacher told me. He has art class every day, and yesterday they began a new project, mosaics. He wanted to do a mosaic of Shrub picking his nose, lol (imagine what that would look like!), and was very vocal and specific about why he cannot stand our Great Leader. Apparently, the art class is more laid-back than the regular classes, and the teacher's been permitting him to "proselytize" the students about Shrub and the damage he's doing. I was a little apprehensive at first, but as it turned out the teacher wasn't upset at all. Rather, he was glad to see that a kid my son's age was taking an interest in current and political affairs, and was taking the time to become informed about the issues. He gets a real kick out of my son, and told me that "he's the first politically active and aware student I've ever had in ten years of teaching."

[liberalhistorian]

57. No, it's the same teacher, and I was very surprised as well.

That seemed like a total turnaround to me. Maybe it was because my son actually walked his talke, went to the march, and was actually talking about the march and what was said and things like that and it was just too much for the pro-Shrub teacher. Maybe he was upset that Chris went on a march with so many "unpatriotic" people. But I agree, it's very surprising to me and I was not at all happy to hear that.

[davsand]

55. Are they claiming you endangered him?

I fully agree that the tape recorder is a must. Plunk it down on the table, turn it on and state, "I am taping this meeting, please state your name for the 'permanent record'." They may try and object to it, and if they do ask why--with the tape running.

Once you have established that you are taping, I'd suggest asking directly that they state WHY you are all meeting. IF they admit it is for anything other than your kid talking in class or being off subject, I'd make them go on record as saying why it is a problem.

IF they are dumb enough to tell you that you were wrong to take him to a march, ask them if they feel the child was placed in danger by participating in that march. I'd be concerned about them trying to paint you as a flawed parent for placing the child in harm's way. If they try that you need a lawyer ASAP, in spite of what others here might say. Family Services/ Child Welfare folks are nobody to mess with, and they may try and intimidate you with that.

Did he miss any school for this? If not, they can piss up a rope, IMO. What you do with your kid in your off time is not up to them. However, if he missed any school, they may be able to give him an unexcused absence...

I'd be seriously thinking about getting him out of that school, personally. That teacher was dead wrong to say anything to the child derogatory about you, and the other teacher has no right to bring politics into it. Having said that, I'd have to wonder if he isn't gonna get a buttload of grief from here on out no matter what changes he makes to his in-class behaviors.

Best of luck, and we are here for you!

Laura

[AWD]

58. I hope to GOD they claim she endangered him

...because I was by their side the entire day.

- They sat down with the rest of us during the speeches, and after about 2 hours, he curled up and took a little nap.
- During the march, she made sure (to the point of being over-protective) that he was ALWAYS within 5 feet of her.
- At one point we came across the anachists, who all wore black and covered their faces. LH directed Chris to the opposite side of the street to avoid them and even told him WHY there are certain aspect of the left that we shouldn't associate with.
- Towards the end of the march, we were very hungry. We all sat down on the curb and LH went to a vendor to get some food. She asked me to please stay with Chris until she returned, which I did. He sat and ate with her, and when they were finished, we completed the march to 17th and Constitution.

Never was a child so safe as Chris was that afternoon.

It should also be noted that after the march, LH walked with her son to see the VietNam Memorial. Any mother that would give her son a sense of history on a day like this should be given a medal, not lambasted the week after.

[davsand]

67. All they see is "protest".

If they are really worked up that the child went to a march, they may see "protest" as being the same as a riot... A lot of people do view it that way. (Bear in mind, my kid has done marches and picket lines with us over labor contracts and other issues, so I'm not exactly in agreement with this view!)

I remember the San Fran marchers who got lambasted on here and other sites for taking kids to that march and being sprayed with pepper spray by the police--when they were in a "safe" or "family" zone. The idea that a kid is not safe at any action is not peculiar to just the Right Wing.

I'm glad, AWD, that you may go with her. That gives me hope.

Pax.

Laura

[liberalhistorian]

68. Thanks, Jeff!

He really enjoyed meeting you as well, and asked me later, "when he wins, won't it be neat to say we know a congressman?" Not IF you win, but WHEN, lol! And I really appreciate all of your help during the march, as well!

[AWD]

77. LOL!

Good kid! Like his outlook a LOT!

Let me know if I can be there on Thursday...if I can make it, I'll be there with you.

[liberalhistorian]

64. I was thinking the same thing in the back of my mind

about Children's Services and the fact that they may attempt to claim I'm not being a "good mother" and that I somehow "endangered" my son by taking him to the march. And yes, you are indeed correct that Child Services are definitely not to be messed with and that does somewhat concern me. But it probably won't come to that (hopefully!). I thought I'd had everything straightened out with the teachers and principals before after the 9/11 episode, but that appears to have been wishful thinking.

[Yupster]

84. One more thing

Most of the teachers at the meeting will have one overriding thing on their mind. "I hope this won't take long. I've got tests to run off."

Don't assume they're there waiting to debate you on Bush. I'd be real surprised if they were. I never saw that in any meeting I was in.

The teachers want some decision made and then get them back to their day.

[Bunny]

69. And, with the recorder running,

ask them specifically: Did you say this (Clinton bad)? Did you say this (who would take their child to such a march)? I can't remember the specific questions from your original post, but ask them point blank, on the record, if they asked these things. If they admit it, you control the conversation. If they deny saying it, then you ask why your son would say they did, etc.

[tom_paine]

63. Save that righteous rage, liberalhistorian

Give those fucking bullies some of their own and watch 'em scurry.

We are all with you here at DU in spirit.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

:argh: :grr: :grr: :mad: :grr:

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

71. BRING A TAPE RECORDER !

been there, done that.

Assume this is a public school you are talking about....

BRING A TAPE RECORDER.

If you have a lawyer friend or relative, who would go
with you for free - Take them with you.

School districts administrators like to 'gang up' on a parent
(sometimes)

[July]

72. Quote repubs on Clinton if they bring up respect for the presidency

Remember "we can support the troops without supporting the president"? I think that was Trent Lott. They threw out "I respect the office, but not the man" quite a bit, also, didn't they?

Actually, I think posters here are right that you should try to stay away from the content of your son's remarks. The school principal and teachers have no right to dictate political opinions, but the comments you've already heard suggest that they think they DO have that right.

I've had some minor run-ins with schools and wish I'd had DU to talk to about them. Great advice here. DO NOT let them treat you like one of their students; some of them are drunk with their power. Hold them accountable for intimidating your son. That's not their job. Put everything in writing, and may I suggest that you add a comment about expecting professionalism and your desire to revisit this if your son suffers adverse effects (health, sleep, rudeness or bullying by students or teachers) or unfair treatment (grades, unreasonable assignments or detentions). That could cause them to back off a little. From my experience, I'd say it's best to come on STRONG about your expectations of their treatment of your son.

Good luck, be strong, we're on your team.

[0rganism]

74. A suggestion for how your son can make contributions with his opinion

If he is seen as disrupting the proceedings of class by voicing his political opinions, then perhaps he can make an effort to incorporate the subject material into his statements. E.g.,

Math: "If I spend 500 billion dollars more than I earn each year for ten years, and the interest on my debts is 3.5%, how long would it take to pay that back at a rate of 100 billion dollars a year?"

Art: "This is my expressionist interpretation of the current occupation of Iraq."

History: "When Teddy Roosevelt was president, didn't he make a priority of regulating commerce out from under private monopoly controls? Why is the current republican party so interested in undoing the work of its predecessors?"

English: "Does the phrase 'put food on your family' indicate an increasingly metaphorical approach to political speech, or is it a sign of dislexia?"

And so on.

[liberalhistorian]

82. ROFLMAO!

Those are great, now why didn't I think of that!

[0rganism]

88. Hehe, I'm such a smartass

I spent a lot of time on various teachers' shitlists... but at least they couldn't nail me for disruption!

[MountainLaurel]

76. Christ on a cracker!

LH,

I have to tell you that I was proud and impressed to see your son there, participating in the democratic process. I cannot believe that they are pulling this shit. :nuke:

If you need some old-fashioned Italian kneecap breaking to occur, let me know, I'll fit it in on my next visit to WV (Ohio being the next state over).

:hi:

[AWD]

79. Wow

If you need some old-fashioned Italian kneecap breaking to occur, let me know, I'll fit it in on my next visit to WV (Ohio being the next state over).

Having spent the day with you, this was the LAST thing I'd expect to see from you. Who knew you had this in you????

on edit - I'm not complaining...just shocked at seeing it from the sweet person I met Saturday.

[MountainLaurel]

83. It's heredity

Both my great-grandmothers on my mom's side as well as my maternal grandmother were the sort to stand up to society and help people in need. Sometimes, being nuturing and helping the underdog requires a little ass-kicking, that's all.

But most of the time I'm fairly sweet and quiet around new people. O8)

I'm absolutely appalled that they could accuse Liberalhistorian of being a bad parent for taking her child to an antiwar rally. Yes, if he's disruptive in class, that's an issue to discuss, but condemning her politics and telling her son that what she did was wrong. . . that makes my blood boil.

I'm not a parent, but I hope to be, and this is one of my worst nightmares; having to deal with a school administration overtaken by right-wingers.

[Catherine Vincent]

80. I'll bet if your son was pro Bush, you wouldn't have gotten a call.

They don't like it because he's anti-Bush. Screw them! Don't let those right wingers scare you and your son into silence.

[mumon]

81. Call the ACLU

And mention that in your conference. Mention that if your son's civil rights have been violated, they might be held as personally - and criminally- liable.

[ex_jew]

85. Better than a tape recorder, bring a cell phone and leave it on

I'll bet some technical wizard could patch us all in on the Inquisition.
That would be fascinating !

[Dude_CalmDown]

86. I can't believe how pissed I am over this - imagine if I knew you

GAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWD DAAAMMMMMMMMN!!!!!!!!! That makes me want to have a kid just to put him through that school so he could torment his teachers. BTW, if for some insane reason I ever do have a kid, I won't ever be truly proud of him unless he turns out to be exactly like yours. You know, it's people like this that make it so easy to condone violence. Good luck and give them hell.

[goddess40]

87. Call the ACLU

I took my 14 year old son and his teachers, that have said anything, have been positive about it. I would have taken my 10 year old but the 24 hour bus trip would have been too much for him.

I'm proud of you and your son, keep up the good fight, it's the only way to win.

[Buns_of_Fire]

89. Take Skittles with you. She'll kick their ass(es).

(This message is brought to you by the nonprofit Take Skittles With You Foundation -- and because I don't want MY ass kicked. :-) )

Seriously, good luck. The tape recorder sounds like a good idea, and so does AWD or a lawyer's presence. Keep calm, no matter what the provocation. I've been to these things, and usually the only reason for so many attendees is to gang up on you. Keep Your Cool is the operative phrase, here...

[JohnKleeb]

117. Yes LH take skittles

Also does your son have his own computer? because hes knowledgable, I am glad to read what he told the art teacher, I should try that sometime myself. :yourock: you both do.

[liberalhistorian]

119. Thanks, John!

And I don't think you'd have any trouble standing up to your own teachers!

[sandnsea]

90. No freakin' way

Had that been me that call would have ended in 10 seconds. No, I won't be at any conference. I will tell my son that he needs to pay attention to the subject at hand and only discuss his political views when the teacher brings up civics first. Over and out. If I recall, you've already had one encounter with your son's school. I think it's time to take the bull by the horns and 'just say no'. He's your son and you need to raise him however you see fit. There are certainly more important things any school needs to be attending to than one child's political views.

And you might want to know, I'm not even sure I support everything you appear to be telling your son. But that isn't the point. He's YOUR son. Besides, his willingness to buck the trend may make him a great leader in the future. Great leaders come from all different kinds of backgrounds and we ought to always support individuality in our kids. It's amazing to me that these teachers can't deal with it.

[slinkerwink]

92. Did your son tell you he disrupted the class?

Did you ask your son if he had disrupted the class or talked when the teacher was on a bathroom break, or there was a "rest" period?

Ask him if he has friends that can back him up.

[liberalhistorian]

93. He may have gotten carried away and disrupted

a class, and if that's the case, then I will certainly be dealing with that as far as he's concerned. He needs to learn that there are times and places to say things and that disrupting a class is not acceptable.

But I don't think that's all that they'll want to discuss, based on the phone call and what the teacher said. Well, guess what folks, the ONLY thing I'll be discussing with them is if he's been disruptive and what I will do about that. THAT IS IT, NOTHING POLITICAL. If I hear that shit again about respecting the president and how I shouldn't have taken him to the march, the conference is OVER.

[RainDog]

131. my son also has asperger's...small world.

is politics your son's current obsession? (for those of you without a child with asperger's, they usually have a topic which they get totally absorbed in...for my son it's baseball, primarily.

is your son in a regular classroom? Mine is, so I'm basing some of what I say on his situation. but I do know that kids with asperger's are also usually highly intelligent, and their curiosity and obsession with a topic is just a magnified version of what so many people do who are intellectually curious.

anyway, as a mom, I would like to encourage you to keep two topics separate and to stay calm and analytical. I, too, would recommend bringing a tape recorder. simply for the purpose of remembering what was said. you might also want to make a list of things you want to cover and be able to refer to it to help you maintain your calm.

first is the issue of his behavior. how was he disrupting class? how was this disruption different than previous behavior(s). how did they try to deal with the situation?

second, after ALL the discussion of your son's situation is over, if it were me, I would explain to them that your son is interested in current affairs and you are providing him with educational opportunities and chances to develop critical/analytical thinking.

You might want to explain to him that this march was not in any way dangerous (at least the one I attended). The only possible danger, a confrontation between the "christians" with the "god hates you" sign and others at the rally, was handled well.

there were many others there with children. with babies in strollers. obviously many parents do not think it is bad to show their children the experience of participatory democracy, so maybe you can let the teachers know of the many other children there, and ask them if their political beliefs may be interferring with their ability if, as was claimed, one of them had to stoop to sexual references with a sixth grader in order to demean another president.

I would ask them if they thought that action was inappropriate. Maybe they owe you and your son an apology for such poor judgment.

All the asperger kids I know are sweet and as naive as can be. they cannot imagine that someone else would not find their obsession equally fascinating.

that the teachers went beyond dealing with the behavior, into an attempt to oppose his views, sounds to me like they behaved as inappropriately as your son.

I would ask them if they think you would be right to try to stop their children from holding their own beliefs...even if it upset other parents.

for any point you want to make, it's good to use that "put them in the situation from your pov" tactic.

again, for your son's sake, I urge you to remain calm and to get to the facts of what happened. tape the meeting so that you will have a record of what they said occurred, and what they see as a problem.

do not threaten, but remind them of the principles which our children are supposed to learn...civic duty, love of country, compassion for others.

and if they insist on trying to force their politics on you and your son, then I think you have every right to seek legal means to address their inappropriate behavior.

good luck. stay calm. let your son see you handle this without too much fuss and he'll learn yet another valuable lesson.

[screembloodymurder]

98. Where is this happening?

Stick to your guns. Threaten the art teacher and the school with a lawsuit. The man had no right to challenge your son's weekend civics lesson or his politics. I'd be STEAMED!

[JohnKleeb]

104. Your son shouldnt be told that

btw it was a pleasure marching and protesting against the evil bastards. Hes more political than I was at the same age, when I was 12 I wasnt political, now I did defend Clinton during the impeachment hearings.

[liberalhistorian]

120. It was great to meet you too, John,

and you are very mature for your age. Glad you didn't mind hanging around us "old" folks, lol!

[JohnKleeb]

122. Well I was with Zack a good deal of the time

and Zack is like 4 years older than me. I didnt mind.

[Hamlette]

106. During the anti-Vietnam years

there was a protest in town and we burned Nixon in effigy. The next day at work my Dad's boss said: "they should have locked up all the protesters and thrown away the key." My dad said: "Good thing they didn't. I'd have had to take the day off to bail my wife and daughters out of jail." My Dad was in the reserves and a military connected civilian job.

Short and sweet, without getting emotional sometimes is the best way to deal with crap like that.

They didn't try to pimp him after that.

[bpilgrim]

107. published at GFP

http://new.globalfreepress.com/article.pl?sid=03/10/29/0135213

This needs to get out there before others get the same idea.

peace

[liberalhistorian]

113. Great!

Thanks for posting that!

[burr]

110. Can't public employees get fired for making these "suggestions"?

I did student teaching for a few months, and the word was in my school that you never allow your political views to effect your teaching style or treatment of any student. However, this doesn't seem to apply to neo-cons who teach reaganomics as economics. It is just another rule used to shut up all who dare to challenge the system!

[LWolf]

115. Boy, did they put the foot in the mouth this time.

Suggestion:

Take a lawyer. Or some way to get a transcript. That has lawsuit written all over it. In my district, if some teacher or principal did something that stupid, district level folks would be scrambling to smooth it over and make it go away before the community got wind. And then there would be School War IV, or whatever number that would be. Most of the community would support the principal, but the law wouldn't. What a field day for the heat.

[latebloomer]

118. Out-fuckin-rageous!

I can't add much to all the wonderful suggestions here. But as the mother of another 6th grade boy who thinks for himself-- luckily we live in a much more liberal community-- I am incensed on your behalf.

If you need any help from DUers, just holler, Mama!!

[liberalhistorian]

121. Thanks!

You are, indeed, lucky to live in a more liberal community. I sometimes fantasize on what that would be like.

[blondeatlast]

123. Give 'em hell, mom!

I know you are a busy single mom, but consider running for school board?! I am considering . . .

That "mom should have known better" line is completely asinine. WTF business is it of theirs?

Go, grrl!

[liberalhistorian]

133. I say go for the school board!

I think you'd make an excellent board member, and we especially need a lot more liberals and progressives on school boards. I think I may consider running the next time there are any openings, which I think is next year.

[9215]

127. Those are some some seriously warped teachers.

If they cannot handle a kid who is into politics, just what can they handle? Do they not want kids to be creative, involved?

"Shut up and watch television!"

As other people suggested, get some friends if applicable who take their kids there and record everything.

Sounds like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. :scared:

[dmr]

135. This is nothing but disguised child abuse

First of all, I'm a mother of a 14 year old son, who is very political, and like your son, he became political at the age of 11. In fact, he knows what he wants to study in college and tells me he wants to some day run for political office (Senator, he says). My son's friends are political as well, in fact when these friends went to school wearing home-made DU t-shirts, their principal backed their civil rights when certain teachers were complaining it was disrespectful to the president* (how they derived a home-made DU t-shirt from that is beyond me).

Your son and my son are fortunate to have parents that allow their children to see all sides to an issue in lieu of the one-sidedness of the wing-nuts. In our house we play devil's advocate, so we can try to understand the other's side rationally - which is not always easy to do.

Your post has made me livid!

How many marchers went to work Monday morning, still excited over the march they attended? How many of these marchers discussed their week-end with co-workers? I bet many did, so should we expect your son to be different? Hell, no! It is perfectly normal.

If your son spoke out during class, then he is wrong and the phone call you received should have been met with a thank you, I'll talk to my son. If he was speaking about the march before class began, then there is no problem - all kids talk about things during this time - they sure as hell don't talk mathematics!

There is no need for a conference for either scenario listed above. I personally wouldn't go, but if they do want a conference to discuss your parenting skills or your son's political beliefs, then they are stepping in dangerous water, which should be met with: "No, I don't think it's necessary, I will speak to my son about talking during class" or "This sounds like a civil rights issue, let me contact my attorney (or the aclu) to see when it's convienent for all of us to meet".

Or the other response could be "let me contact my attorney, so we may meet with the principal, and the art teacher who spoke about sex to my 11 year old son". Who the fuck do they think they are to challenge anyone's civil rights? How dare they! How dare they interfere with his critical thinking skills, free will and his own belief system? THAT is emotional and verbal child abuse to me.

I hope I have made sense to you, because I am so angry and typing fast with my anger.

[Isome]

148. Made sense to me! Great response!!

e o m

[alphafemale]

136. Please let us know how things go.

:grouphug:

[Enjolras]

138. Yet another suggestion, for what it's worth

Have your son pray or read bible passages DURING a class sometime, and see if anyone dares say a word to him and risk becoming the pariah of right wing hate radio.

The school could get blasted for being overtly right wing and overtly left wing in the same month, and over incidents involving the same kid.

[bleedingheart]

139. I would take an attorney with me to shake em up

I bet the ACLU might have one available to tag along...

I live for confrontations with people like this.

[MSchreader]

141. Three hours from Detroit to Cleveland

If you need backup, let me know and I'll have three of us -- me, my roommate and her 16-year old daughter (all pissed-off reds!) -- there in three hours.

Martin

[MSchreader]

146. So,...

What happened today?

Martin

[roguevalley]

147. tell them to stick it. if they want a meeting with you over your son and

your own civil rights, then tell them to make it possible to meet with your lawyer present. I guarentee you that they will drop it.

[Fridays Child]

149. Hope it's a really big conference room because you're gonna have...

...thousands of DUers by your side (in spirit, anyway)!

[DiverDave]

150. Just get the

remarks on tape.
You need to get what they said and, more importantly, WHO said it.
I will bet you that once you try and attribute this to a specific person, they are gonna run and hide.
This is classic bully behavior. They can dish it out, but when they see that they could get into trouble, nothing but denials.
My son just started Kindergarten, and I hope he grows up as free thinking as your son.
Good Luck.

Dave

[Samurai_Writer]

151. So what happened?

Did you go to the meeting at your son's school yet? If so, what happened?

[bluestateguy]

152. Please let us know how this turns out..

This is interesting. Is this a public school?

[LeahMira]

153. Stay calm!!!

Is this a public or a private/parochial school? Does that make a difference here?

If your son was talking about the march during math class instead of doing his math... well, that really wasn't the time.

If your son was getting into any kind of "political" arguments with other students to the extent that name-calling and such started up, even if he is not the one who did the name-calling... well, that really wasn't cool either. Sometimes kids need to think about the idea of two people who can "agree to disagree." It's been my experience that 12 year-olds have a hard time with this.

But isn't that just a bunch of BULLSHIT? I will NOT BE TOLD BY TEACHERS AND PRINCIPALS what I should and should not teach my son and what he should and should not believe! And the other kid's parents are apparently getting upset as well. Well, TOUGH SHIT! I have the feeling that if I'd taken him to an anti-Clinton march they would have been beaming with approval! I'M SO SICK OF WINGNUTS IN SCHOOLS!!!!!!

You are 100% right in refusing to let anyone tell you how to raise your child. At the same time, there are behaviors that are totally appropriate at home that are not appropriate in school, simply because in school there are so many other people there. Maybe the art teacher was trying to point out that there are people in class who see things differently from the way your son sees them and maybe he was coming on too strong, although I do think the art teacher chose a poor example to use. On the spur of the moment, though, sometimes we aren't at our shining best.

I agree with you that it's TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE for anyone to say that you were wrong to take your son to the march, though. That's your call, and it seems as if your son has proved to you that he knows what the march is all about and wasn't just along because Mom made him come. Sure, if your son "overdid it" with his enthusiasm in school, he needs to talk about that with you. But NO ONE has a right to tell you that you shouldn't take him wherever you choose, since clearly you would never take him somewhere that wasn't safe.

[demigoddess]

154. I've seen babies taken to rallies for war and anti abortion rallies where

they yell at the women right through their own childrens ears, and get hysterical with their babies in their arms. Yeah, that is the way to show you love children. A twelve year old is plenty old enough to understand and decide for himself. Sounds like you've done a good job as a parent. Remember those who can do, those who cant,teach.

[Love Bug]

156. You've had a lot of good advice here but I have one more suggestion

Try to get a copy or at least see your son's permanent school record from time to time. You want to make sure these teachers aren't including prejudical remarks that could follow your son for years. They could potentially damage relationships with future teachers before they have even met your son.