Bush was denied wiretaps, bypassed them

[rd_kent]

UH, this is scary. But its more ammo to bring * down.


http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20051226-122526-7310r

[RagingInMiami]

1. This is huge

No wonder that judge resigned from the court.

[Pachamama]

39. Bet that judge knows very well what was going on and is pissed!

I have a feeling Judge Robertson is going to have a lot to say in the coming year....

[ddeclue]

45. Contempt of court charges???

Criminal referrals???

Hmm...

Doug D.

[Warpy]

2. Oh, yeah, I can see how this is spinning out:

"Those liberal activist judges wouldn't give Fearless Leader the ammunition he needed to keep us all safe from terrorism"

You can just smell it in that story.

Pity they didn't mention WHY Stupid's requests were modified or denied.

[tspud1]

3. are you scared ??

Doesn't this part scare you...
"Faced with that standard, Bamford said, the Bush administration had difficulty obtaining FISA court-approved wiretaps on dozens of people within the United States who were communicating with targeted al-Qaida suspects inside the United States."

[Warpy]

4. Yeah, terrified

that there are people in this country who buy that crap.

[stepnw1f]

6. You Actually Believe that Tripe?

Puleeeeeeeze! I'm more afraid of idiots who believe in Bush.

[htuttle]

7. Booga! Booga!

When did Americans turn into such cowards afraid of their own shadows? I thought we used to be 'rugged individualists' -- what happened?

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve
neither liberty or security." -- Ben Franklin

Seems we've gone a bit weak in the knees since ol' Ben's time... :shrug:

Hell, ain't no way that Benny Laden is gonna scare me more than growing up in the shadow of thousands of Soviet nuclear missiles.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Lots Of Scared Rabbits

These people, like Frank Luntz on Chistmas Day CSPAN, says he thinks people are ok with losing a little freedom if it makes them safe. Cowards, one and all.

In addition, i went to LUNTZ'S company's own website and looked at the study. The majority of people in Luntz's own study don't agree with him. But, that's not what he said on CSPAN! He said "the american people understand that some freedom might have to be lost in order to maintain security." But his own data contradicts him. Liar.
The Professor

[ddeclue]

43. growing up in the shadow of thousands of Soviet nuclear missiles

Hell, ain't no way that Benny Laden is gonna scare me more than growing up in the shadow of thousands of Soviet nuclear missiles.

Thanks! AMEN to that.. Does no one remember the cold war? I grew up in Germany because my dad was in the Army. We were 30 minutes or so from the East German border. Nobody talked about giving up our rights when I was a kid. You'd have to go back to McCarthy or J. Edgar Hoover to find an equivalent to what is going on today in America under Bush.

Doug D.

[bigtree]

10. Actually undermined his own 'war on terror'

despite the blame he's heaped on Democrats for tabling his PA.

Welcome tspud1! :hi:

[tspud1]

18. Thanks for welcome

Thanks for welcome. Another poster thinks I am in wrong place.

[bigtree]

31. *sigh*

I don't know. Shit flies fast around here when a new poster shows up with an echo of the republican argument . . . that said, I do think Bush has put the hunt for terrorists in jeopardy by obtaining evidence illegally that couldn't be used in court, and by undermining the credibility of the FISA court as he sidestepped them. They lost a great judge the other day. Judge Robertson.

Whadidya think of FISA Judge James Robertson who resigned the other day tspud1? Let me take your DU temperature . . .

[tspud1]

33. Shouldn't have done it

I think he should have stayed, no need to fall on your sword and let another judge be appointed.
The cat was already out of the bag.

[bigtree]

34. good point.

well, tspud1. This is hallowed ground. DU is a hall of nightmares for the right.

Tread carefully. Most folks here haven't had a decent meal of freeper in . . . hours.

[tspud1]

36. Lunch calls

Thanks for reminding me, it's lunch time
Later

[InternalDialogue]

20. Where did you find that part of the story?

It's not at the link supplied by the OP.

[tspud1]

26. link to article

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/253334_nsaspying24.html?source=mypi

Go to Google news and type in secret court and it will come up

[InternalDialogue]

27. But we're not discussing your article. n/t

[tspud1]

30. My bad

I thought is was one and the same article, my fault

[desi]

35. Just the same..

..thanks for your link. It appears to be a much more thorough version of a UPI summary. And welcome and hang tight...

[Mabus]

40. Bamford was speculating.

another quote from the article, "Bamford offered his speculation in an interview last week" is a couple of paragraphs before the quote you cited from the article. Also note that the intervening paragraphs between the above quote from the article and the one you gave are informational, i.e., they explain why FISA was created and the legal standard required to obtain a FISA warrant. This leads me to believe that the statement you quoted was only speculation on why Bush bypassed the FISA courts and not an explanation based on first hand knowledge or other substantive evidence.

[Luminous Animal]

22. Where did you get that quote?

It's nowhere in the linked article.

[Grateful for Hope]

23. Come on

This is blatant propaganda.

[Mabus]

28. Not as scared as I am that Bush is in the WH

It scarier to me that they can out CIA agents at will.

[wakeme2008]

5. WHO is the question

"And, the judges also rejected or deferred at least six requests for warrants during those two years -- the first outright rejection of a wiretap request in the court's history."

Who were the 6 for..... Kerry... Dean... Just thoughts of mine.

[tspud1]

9. never get an answer

Since it's a secret court that will probably never come out and if it does what's the point in a secret court?

[stepnw1f]

12. That's Why It's ILLEGAL

DUH! No oversight.... imagine spying on corporations or the GOP. Does that scare you too? Yeah right....

[tspud1]

16. Oversight ???

"There appears to have been some oversight if "the first outright rejection of a wiretap request in the court's history."

[stepnw1f]

29. I Bet THAT "Oversight Pisses You Off Too

Since you seem soooo scared and willing to give up privacy rights because of your fear or paranoia.

Bush has done much more to make you less secure, but that apparently doesn't register. So you give the wealthy retard more control over you, me and everyone else in this country. SAD!

[walldude]

13. The point of a secret court is to keep issues of National Security

secret. Not to protect the Bush administration when they want to spy on political opponents, the media or anti-war protesters.

Welcome to DU. Are you sure you are in the right place?

[stepnw1f]

15. He Won't Reply

we terrify him.

[tspud1]

17. what to reply to?

It's an article in the paper, why go after me?

[stepnw1f]

24. Why Reply Then?

I could be a terraist... ya NEVER KNOW! Booga booga booga. I think you are lost!

[BushOut06]

8. There's a terrorist under every rock, and Bush means to find them all

What's next, physical searches of everyone's houses? For all Bush knows, I might be hiding a terrorist in my closet. Of course, even if they don't find Al-Bogeyman, I'll get tossed in jail for my extensive porno collection (part of the War on Pornography).

[stepnw1f]

14. All You Have to Be is a Dem, Moderate Rep or a Liberal

For we all know fascists aree terrified of us all. Maybe they can build a tall wall around us, and make us all prisoners too. Ya never know...

I'm pissed at the audacity of these criminals and the idiots who follow them blindly.

[The Stranger]

11. Anyone remember how to recommend?

Kicked and recommended.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

19. K.r

[liberal N proud]

21. Take the poll on that page

Or follow link:
http://survey.pollingpoint.com/3929917

[robbedvoter]

25. Important story, considering he was reassuring people he wouldn't

Once again, this is what he was declaring last year:


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040420-2.html
"Secondly, there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so."

and my signature line tells you what they need to sputter now:

[Mabus]

32. "major modifications" usually means the original warrant request

was too broad and/or not supported in the affidavit. This, I believe, is evidence that there were overreaching in their original warrant affidavits. As to whether the scope of the warrant was too broad (like getting warrants for multiple locations or a whole company) or whether the warrants underwent major modifications because the individual that the warrant named was not supported by the affidavit, it doesn't look good for Bush.

[pinto]

37. Full article here (S F Chronicle, 12/25):

Why Bush decided to bypass court in ordering wiretaps
Panel of judges modified his requests

- Stewart M. Powell, Hearst Newspapers
Sunday, December 25, 2005


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/25/MNGCEGD95C1.DTL

<snip>

Bamford, 59, a Vietnam-era Navy veteran, likens the Bush administration's domestic surveillance without court approval to Nixon-era abuses of intelligence agencies.

The National Security Agency and previous eavesdropping agencies collected duplicates of all international telegrams to and from the United States for decades during the Cold War under a program code-named "Shamrock" before the program ended in the 1970s. A program known as "Minaret" tracked 75,000 Americans whose activities had drawn government interest between 1952 and 1974, including participation in the anti-war movement during the Vietnam War.

"NSA prides itself on learning the lessons of the 1970s and obeying the legal restrictions imposed by FISA," Bamford said. "Now it looks like we're going back to the bad old days again."

<end snip>

and another discussion thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5689045

[progressoid]

41. Holy Crap - that is scary.

[Bake]

42. Whatever happened to "Live Free or Die"????

And "Give me liberty or give me death."

Booga booga.

Bake

[mrdmk]

44. Question: Why the Bush Jr. Administration not get their wiretaps as

requested?

Answer: Because this administration does not know the LAW, nor what it is doing!

[hayu_lol]

46. Heard on the Ray TAliaferro Show on KGO...

Ray had documentation that showed more than 19,000 of these questionable wiretaps were done in the last 3 years.