Can somebody sit down and talk to Osama? This war is crazy!

[goclark]

What ever happened to Peace Talks?

:think:

[The Crazy Canadian]

1. I don't think you can negotiate with people like Osama.

These guys are fanatical. They must be hunted down and killed or thrown in jail.

[goclark]

3. How many would we have to kill to be able to have PEACE?

I'm just wondering.

[The Crazy Canadian]

19. Not many i don't think.

The jihadist are a small group overall. I think pulling out of Iraq and not interfering in the internal affairs of other Middle Eastern countries will go a long way in reducing the threat of terrorism. But the neocons don't want that, they love war.

The insurgence in Iraq is like 90%-95% Iraqi's, the rest foreign fighters, but once you pull out of the country, the Iraqi will pretty much get rid of the foreigners. The only problem in pulling out is that civil war may erupt on a huge scale, it's already happening on a small scale, and the civil war may spread to a regional war down the line. That would really fuck things up pretty good.

[goclark]

22. Your post gives me a ray of hope

Thanks for your thoughts.

I have often wondered if we would be in this mess if Clinton was in office, I don't think so.

I am so naive, I just want to find a way to study war no more and as long as the NeoCons are in office it is not going to happen, IMO.

Their cowboy mentality and bully tactics play right into the hands of those that hate us so much.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Has anyone tried to negotiate with the NeoCons?....

...Those guys are fanatical. They must be brought up on War Crimes and thrown in prison.

[goclark]

27. My point exactly!

We will never win the "War On Terra" until the Terror Gang of Neo Cons are gone from the political landscape of America.

[tx_dem41]

2. Osama would love that as much as he loves the invasion of Iraq...

what are you prepared to give him?

[goclark]

6. I am prepared to give him nothing. Just wondering

how long do we continue to fight the terrorists without knowing what they want.


I don't mean to sound naive but I can't see any PEACE ever if we fail to begin to understand what they want from us.

If it is simply to destroy our economy, kill our soldiers,make us afraid to travel and lead a free life --they have already WON, IMO.

[tx_dem41]

11. We know what Osama wants....

He wants the Arabian peninsula including the holy sites in Mecca. He wants to enslave the people of Arabia and then the Middle East to an extent that would even be greater than the people are now suffering under the kingdom of the House of Saud. Its not like OBL just appeared on the radar in 2001. He has made this quite clear in his writings since the early 90s (and his followers even before that).

If you are not prepared to give him anything (which I agree with), there is little use in "talking peace". We know what HE wants.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. Your post is straight from classic RTP....

...Rightwing Talking Points.

Just curious, but where have you read anything extensive written by Osama? Has he published something like Osama's "Little Islamic Book"?

[goclark]

23. Please read my reply above

I am so far removed from any Right Wing Talking Pints that I am ROTFL.

I am well aware that Osama is Georgie's tool for starting a war.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. You talk a good game....but that's about it.

[goclark]

38. Thanks nt

[DemonFighterLives]

36. It was said that Osama wanted the US out of Saudi Arabia

which dubby promptly did.
These guys don't want any peace talks, they are making money beyond belief sowing chaos and war.
In Iraq it is now the Z men who pose as the boogeymen-Zarqawi, Zawahiri who have been shot up and captured many times. :hide:

The only real answer is for someone to come out and tell all and be strong enough and secure enough to see it through. Why were most of the alleged terrorists from Saudi Arabia?

:freak:

[goclark]

40. Thank you DemonFighterLives!

I believe that the TRUTH must come out, on both sides.

As long as the NeoCons are in charge, that will be difficult to say the least.

Poppy has been in bed with the Saudi's for so long and yet most of the alleged terrorists came from Saudi Arabia.... huuum.

Really makes one wonder.

Thanks for your post.

[DemonFighterLives]

44. What a tangled web they weave!

The PNAC agenda has not been fulfilled. You can bet they will try if they get the chance. The pResident still has his axis of evil to deal with, if you don't count Iraq there is still Iran and North Korea.

Iraq is in turmoil though and chalabi didn't do too well according to reports. Then on the news I have to hear that bush is going up, up up nearing 50%. :rofl: I don't buy that catapulted crapola!

[goclark]

48. They are a bunch of spiders

and let's hope that the New Year catches them in their web of LIES.

[pitohui]

4. why osama?

doesn't seem like he is bothering to do anything, he is standing back and letting it happen if he exists at all

can't really come to terms w. watchmaker deity

[goclark]

9. Take Osama out of it and fill in any name(s)

I just named him because the NeoCons made him the target in the beginning.

I am speaking in broader terms, who exactly is the leader or main enemy that we need to destroy before we can have PEACE?

I don't believe there is a LEADER that we can capture/kill and then we will have "won the war on terra...GWB"

[jonnyblitz]

5. what does Osama have to do with the war in Iraq? nt

[Lex]

8. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I can't make sense of the Opening Post.

Osama and the War in Iraq are unrelated.

[goclark]

13. I am well aware of that but GW continues

to say it and his base believes it.

Take Osama out of it and put in any name that you like.

Who is the leader of the terrorists now?

IMO, America has created a web of leaders that we will never be able to destroy.

[goclark]

10. See my post directly above

I never believed that Osama had anything to do with Iraq, GWB made America believe that so that is why I said it.

[sam sarrha]

7. there are Islamic factions that are intent on reinstating the Ottoman Empire

and cutting off all energy to the west to destroy us. you cant talk to them because their thought processes dont use reason.. that is a western sin

[goclark]

18. I happen to think that GWB and Company

have a thought process that can't reason either so I suppose these hateful activities will go on forever.

[sam sarrha]

24. it is a twisted form called Apriori Logic, the conclusion comes first and

the premise follows.. it is a form of mental illness. DrugRush LimpBalls uses it to produce ZombieDittoHeads. you cant communicate with anyone who uses Apriori logic. I discovered it as a Juvenile Parole Officer researching their behavior. I wrote a paper titled, 'Apriori Logic as Perceptual Dysfunction and a Stalemate in the Counseling Process'. it can only be cured by getting the victim into art, music/as in learning to play an instrument, repetitious exercise and Meditation.. meditation works fastest

[goclark]

32. Then GW must have Apriori Logic!

I believe that he is as crazy as a loon and so are all of his fellow Gang Members.

I sincerely appreciate your post.

I do believe that all of us need, "art, music/as in learning to play an instrument, repetitious exercise and Meditation."

I would love to read your paper, is it on line?

I wish GW would get into YOGA and get off that bike... he needs serious therapy.

[Smarmie Doofus]

21. But these factions have influence because...

our policy in the mideast has been hugely unpopular with the denizens of that region.

The OP is correct, seems to me. If we adopt the attitude that we ( the USA) have done nothing to contribute to the rise and proliferation of Islamic extremism, we are not only kidding ourselves but we are also committing ourselves , literally, to war without end.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Interesting quote from NYT defending NSA Data Mining Practices:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/24spy.html?pagewanted=2

"If they get content, that's useful to them too, but the real plum is going to be the transaction data and the traffic analysis," he said. "Massive amounts of traffic analysis information - who is calling whom, who is in Osama Bin Laden's circle of family and friends - is used to identify lines of communication that are then given closer scrutiny."

Yeah.. Where to find Osama Bin Laden's family? Hmmm? Didn't some of them leave the country right after Sept. 11? What about the Carlyle Group? Has anyone checked there?

And, wait.. I thought he was the "black sheep", and his family had disowned him.. particularly the members of his family who like to play badminton in Kennebunkport with Poppy and Bar?

[goclark]

25. I would love to read that article

but I would have to register. :(

I do believe that "OBL" is sleeping with the Bush family.

Michael Moore tried to wake up America about the cozy relationship between the two families.

It is my belief that if OBL was located and killed in front of the WH tomorrow, nothing would change.


Didn't GW and Rummy say that OBL was meaningless?

[Dunvegan]

14. Osama and Saddam only have one thing in common...

Osama was a religiously fanatical jihadi seeking power for a world-wide Wahhabi caliphate.

Saddam was a secular dictator seeking a mandate to power in the Middle East.

Those two aims are in direct conflict.

The war in Iraq has nothing to do with Osama or 911.

Actually, the only thing Osama and Saddam have in common is years of support in their earlier aspirations from the CIA.

[goclark]

28. Maybe I should have said "Osama" in my original post

I agree...
The Poppy CIA connection runs so deep into this WAR and the Middle East issue that they are like a ball of wool.

[mmonk]

15. The war in Afghanistan?

[goclark]

35. Did Afghanistan stop any hopes of Peace Talks?

[mmonk]

39. I thought that was the war he got us involved in.

Is he still stirring it up there or is it primarily his friends, the Taliban?

[goclark]

41. GWB and Crooks have put so much mud in the water

that I feel like a kitten with a ball of messed up yarn. :)

[mmonk]

43. Ha!

:rofl:
Clear as mud, ain't it?

[Warren DeMontague]

16. Maybe we should talk to the guy who gave Osama his start...

[Beam Me Up]

26. Yeah, and the Elephant he rode in on. eom

[IChing]

30. You need to talk with your pResident not a factious boggy man

that might be dead
that was created by us
that is used by us.

We need perpetual war.

[goclark]

33. I agree, "Osama" is only a boogy man

and Bush is a boogy man too.

The problem is that we have to live with him in the WH.
We have to live with him representing our country.

I agree that HE wants perpetual war.

I don't believe that "WE" America needs perpetual war.

[IChing]

37. I would suggest that most readers at DU go to the 9-11

forum and start looking at new evidence and thoughts.

The physics speak for themselves for me.

[walldude]

31. We aren't at war with Osama

if he planned and carried out 9/11 then he is a mass murderer and should have been delt with as such. But really we don't even know if he did it. We only have the Administrations word for that, and they've been really trustworthy so far. :eyes:

[goclark]

34. See my post above, we are at war because the Bush

Gang decided that they wanted to rule the Middle East, IMO.

Love your words..."they've been really trustworthy so far." :eyes:

[blonndee]

42. What does this war have to do with Osama?

I'm totally confused.

[goclark]

45. Read the thread Biondee,"Osama" is tongue in cheek

:think:

[blonndee]

47. Well, I see that you clarified that later now, but okay. You didn't before

so, sorry if I didn't get the irony. Maybe I'm a little slow these days. Totally possible.

[Dunvegan]

46. Osama is...

...the New World Order's version of 1984's Emmanuel Goldstein.

...Equals...

About Emmnuel Goldstein from Wikipedia:
In the novel Goldstein is rumored to be a former top member of the ruling (and sole) Party who had broken away early in the movement and started an organization known as "The Brotherhood", dedicated to the fall of The Party.

However, in the course of the novel, the reader never learns if "The Brotherhood" or Goldstein himself actually ever existed, even though he is led to believe that neither Goldstein, nor the "Brotherhood," nor "Big Brother" exists outside of suggestion.

Quotes from 1984

Book One, Chapter One
"People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annihilated: vaporized was the usual word."


Book One, Chapter Five
"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?… Has it ever occurred to your, Winston, that by the year 2050, at the very latest, not a single human being will be alive who could understand such a conversation as we are having now?…The whole climate of thought will be different. In fact, there will be no thought, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not thinking—not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness." - Syme

Book One, Chapter Seven
"If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated."

"Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."

Book One, Chapter Nine
"In Oceania at the present day, Science, in the old sense, has almost ceased to exist. In Newspeak there is no word for 'Science.' The empirical method of thought, on which all the scientific achievements of the past were founded, is opposed to the most fundamental principles of Ingsoc."

"The citizen of Oceania is not allowed to know anything of the tenets of the other two philosophies, but he is taught to execrate them as barbarous outrages upon morality and common sense. Actually, the three philosophies are barely distinguishable…"

Book Two, Chapter Ten
"It was curious to think that the sky was the same for everybody, in Eurasia or Eastasia as well as here. And the people under the sky were also very much the same—everywhere, all over the world, hundreds or thousands of millions of people just like this, people ignorant of one another's existence, held apart by walls of hatred and lies, and yet almost exactly the same—people who had never learned to think but were storing up in their hearts and bellies and muscles the power that would one day overturn the world."

O'Brian silenced {Winston Smith} by a movement of the hand. "We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull...We make the laws of nature.

"The world is as old as we are, no older. How could it be older? Nothing exists except through human consciousness...Nineteenth biologists invented {fossils}. Before man there was nothing."

Book Three, Chapter Three
'Sometimes', she said, 'they threaten you with something - something you can't stand up to, can't even think about. And then you say, "Don't do it to me, do it to somebody else, do it to so-and-so"

He knew that . . . the Thought Police had watched him like a beetle under a magnifying glass. There was no physical act, no word spoken aloud, that they had not noticed, no train of thought that they had not been able to infer.

The long hoped for bullet was entering his brain.

He gazed up at the enormous face {of Big Brother on the telescreen}. Forty years it had taken him to understand what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache.

He loved Big Brother.

[DemonFighterLives]

49. Thanks for that

I needed a little refresher of 84.
:patriot: