I somehow made it through Christmas without having to go to church.

[Aristus]

I attend a right-wing fundy church solely because it's my wife's church. There are a lot of things to dislike about it; the pastor's tongue-in-cheek assertion that "you don't have to vote Republican to be a Christian" *wink*wink*, not the least of them. But for the most part, the pastor is an intelligent, learned, good-hearted man who has taught me more about the Scriptures then ever before in my life.

Lately though, he's been straying waaaaaaay off the reservation. The "War On Christmas" bullshit skipped our church last year, but this year they've been making up for lost time. And last week, during the lighting of the Advent candle, he said "You know, someday, it may be illegal in this country to proclaim Christ as your Savior".

I remained calm and silent, but I wanted to scream at him: "Ever heard of the First Amendment? 'Congress shall pass no law respecting the establishment of a religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof'?
But I didn't. It would have infuriated my wife, not to mention all the other Kool-Aid drinking hallelujah patriots stoned out on right-wing Christofascist hatred and bigotry.

It was an oblique attack on secular government, and "all them dang libruhls" who see it as the best way to protect people of all faiths and prevent religious tyranny over a free people. Does my pastor hate America? Seems like it.

Pissed me off no end, I can tell you.

But this Christmas weekend, we were so busy running around with last minute shopping, and visits to different family units, that Christmas service got missed. Even though I am a Christian, and deplore the gross commercialization of the holiday, I can't say I'm disappointed at having missed it this year, and at this particular church.

At the Methodist church I grew up in, however, Christmas Eve (or Day) service was always my favorite; the warmth, the love, the candles, the music, the sense of wonder and excitement. I miss that dreadfully. Why have the bigots and hate-mongers taken over my faith? How can men and women of goodwill take it back?

[sandnsea]

1. By standing up and screaming

Why do people just sit there and take this?? I couldn't do that in a million years and yes I have stood up in the middle of church, expressed my outrage, and left. I can't understand anybody tolerating this garbage, I really can't.

[troubleinwinter]

2. You note this:

"But for the most part, the pastor is an intelligent, learned, good-hearted man who has taught me more about the Scriptures then ever before in my life."

Perhaps a letter or phone call to him, asking him to stick to the scriptures and mentioning how much you have learned from him on the subject, and to lay off the politics?

You might want to suggest that you worry about the church's loss of tax exempt status, too!

[rogerashton]

3. Couldn't you schedule a personal appointment

with the pastor and discuss your concerns with him?

I mean, if you really feel you just can't walk out and find one of the many Christian congregations that are not politically right-wing? And doesn't your wife owe you a little consideration with respect to your own views?

I mean, in marriage, if it don't work two ways, man, it don't work no way.

[David Dunham]

13. I agree. Explain to him the constitutional protections for religion

Congress and the states can never ban religion and never would. There is no war on Christmas.

[CountAllVotes]

4. don't feel alone

I normally go on Christmas myself to the local Catholic Church. I didn't feel like going yesterday so I did not bother. *sigh*

It wasn't much of a Christmas for me this year as I really find little to celebrate when I think of those that have died and are engaged in these awful wars. :(


:kick:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

5. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

Change churches! There are certainly churches your wife and you can agree on. This is not a good situation for you and eventually for her.

[citizen snips]

6. That is why I don't like going to church.

There are so many close minded people.

[MichiganVote]

7. Well you know, if churches are so damn worried about their existence

in the US, why don't they do something useful for people instead of telling us all how and why we're going to hell. I am so damn sick of churches, churchgoers or preachers dressed up as politicians telling everybody everything that they themselves need to know.

My son and I took a ride around the city I was born in on Christmas eve. I told him I would take him around to the areas that I visited during Christmas as a kid. So here's my point. It's midnight and after and we ride past countless churches. And guess what? They are all dark. Shuttered up, boarded up or simply not open. Now why is that? Is it Walmart's fault? Your fault? My fault?

No, it is their fault for being so damn lazy in the first place that people think of churches as the last place to go on the very eve of their professed saviors birth.

Churches need to see the light--they are not meeting the needs and wants of the people in this country and it shows. If it shows this badly on the Christmas eve, imagine what the rest of the year is like.

[Number9Dream]

8. Everything comes with a price... you have to decide

My wife is Presbyterian (rarely attends). I was raised Roman Catholic, now agnostic... just for your reference.
If you've never seen "Inherit The Wind", I highly recommend it (the Spencer Tracy version). It's about the Scopes evolution trial. Spencer Tracy's character, in one scene, talks about the benefits of religion (hope, comfort, belief, etc.) coming with a price (ignorance, bigotry, bloodshed, etc.). I think nothing is free, everything comes with some kind of price. It's up to you to decide if the benefits are still worth the price.
"Men of goodwill might take it back", if it would somehow stop being a big money-making business.

[Big Kahuna]

9. Man, you're really whipped!

My Wife couldn't drag me within 100 yards of the Baptist-fundy church she gew up in. :)

My family attended a United Methodist/Congregational Church for a while. I'm a Pagan, but I must say that I felt welcome in the congregation, and found them to be mostly liberal and concerned with social justice. There were quite a few wingnuts too, but everyone seemed to get along.

Maybe you could prevail upon her to attend services with a more moderate denomination?

[Jose Diablo]

10. Congradulations, I haven't been to a church in let me see...

It's been better than 5 years now, it was my mother-in-laws funeral. Even though a mother-in-law, she was OK in my book.

Now before that, it was another 7 years to my dads funeral. I've even managed to avoid all the infant baptisms, too.

It takes a shrewed mind to avoid getting coralled into going to church, believe you me. I've perfected the technique over the years so my wife doesn't expect it now, but there is no way I could have avoided her mothers funeral. That was one I couldn't get out of, just like my dads.

Edit to add: My dad though, he was the pro when it came to not going to church. In his 74 years, I think he went to church twice, once to be baptised and once to be buried. That's got to be a record someplace.

[Warpy]

11. Keeping silent is tacit approval. When you don't answer

evil, you approve of evil. How long are your going to hang around, giving that man the support of your presence and your donations?

It's time to start doing your homework, with or without your wife. Start going to other churches in the area to find one that preaches the love, charity, and tolerance that Jesus did. When you do, you'll be home.

Don't expect to convert anyone. Fundy hucksters are slick and it's hard to break free. You know what's going on, though, and continuing to support it by your presence and your silent agreement makes you just as evil as they are.

Sorry to lay it on the line like that, but there it is. There are other places for believers to go, places that focus on the words of Christ instead of the words of Calvin. It's time to find one. Good luck.

[demigoddess]

12. I stopped going in the sixties, because of a real nice church where the

men, right after a church service, started talking about beating up and maybe killing an old woman because she was an atheist. Talk to your nice pastor who worries about the loss of religious freedom about that! People kept their hands off religion in those days and the only threat to christianity now is in the actions of bush and their own minds.

[Donkeykick]

14. In My Opinion...

At the Methodist church I grew up in, however, Christmas Eve (or Day) service was always my favorite; the warmth, the love, the candles, the music, the sense of wonder and excitement. I miss that dreadfully. Why have the bigots and hate-mongers taken over my faith? How can men and women of goodwill take it back?

First and foremost, I'm glad to see another person that remembers the good Ole days with church and Christmas.

It is going to be a hard thing to do, but eventually people, that care about this sort of thing, is going to have to start turning some of these "so called religious institutions":eyes: in to the IRS, and have their tax exemptions removed.