Santa Hating Teacher Turns Out To Be Religious Rightwing Nutjob

[ruggerson]

The teacher who debunked Santa Claus in front of six and seven year olds has released the following statement to her local newspaper.

You gotta love it when the "War On Christmas" is waged by fundamentalist whack jobs.

http://www.ldnews.com/fastsearchresults/ci_3334340

Teacher defends Santa remarks

Editor:
Lebanon Daily News
Lebanon Daily News

Last week I substituted at a local elementary school in Lebanon County. The lesson plan required me to read the 1882 poem “The Night Before Christmas” by Clement Clarke Moore to two classes of students. While I can appreciate the poem for its literary value, the subject matter is offensive to me, and the reading of this poem to the children imposed values upon me which are against my deeply held religious beliefs. I could not in good conscience present the notion of Santa Claus as a truth to the children, and stated so.
No public-school teacher should be required to teach a belief, custom or religion that he or she believes to be false, or be required to pass those purported falsehoods onto impressionable children, without the right to state a disclaimer. Furthermore, freedom of speech and religion, no matter how unpopular the speech or against cultural norms the religion, are protected rights.

A secular public school should not be propagating any kind of religion. The belief in Santa Claus as a divine, magical, omniscient, powerful, giving, loving father-figure, to whom children are taught to make supplications and requests, is a religion indeed — a distorted substitute for the Judeo-Christian God.

In presenting the poem, I gave the children some historical background about the Santa Claus myth — its evolution from the historic Nickolaus, Bishop of Myrna in Asia Minor, who died in 343 A.D., to its amalgamation with ancient Western pagan traditions of German, Scandinavian and Dutch origins, to the current manifestation in the secular Christmas culture of today. (Dutch children, for example, would put their wooden shoes out at night for “Sante Klaus” to fill with candies.) The current Santa Claus figure was popularized in the late 19th Century by artist Thomas Nast of Harper’s Weekly magazine, who depicted “Saint Nick” not as an elf but as a rotund, pipe-smoking man in a red-and-white suit. This is the deity to which countless public-school children today are taught to make supplications, and about whom they sing their many songs at annual public-school Christmas programs.

If people are upset about the revelation to children that Santa Claus is a myth — which all children who are taught this lie figure out eventually — perhaps it is because Santa is that zealously guarded idol of their own modern religion. Therefore, as a religion, let Santa be kept out of the public-school classroom — or perhaps, in the interest of “diversity,” make his mythical, oversized personage share equal representation in literature and song and Christmas programs with the other Person of the season: the Lord Jesus Christ, God made flesh, God with us.


Theresa Rodriguez Farrisi

Myerstown

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. the war on x-mas, by x-stians! That is hillarious!

[gratuitous]

2. No, Ms. Farrisi

Folks aren't upset about the "revelation" that Santa Claus is a myth; they're upset because a substitute teacher took it upon herself, without consulting anyone else, to meddle in the personal, private lives of their children far beyond the strictures of pedagogy.

Or perhaps you would be entirely comfortable with a substitute in your child's classroom expostulating at length on his or her personal belief that Jesus was not God made flesh, God with us? Or that Jesus never existed? Oh, all in the context of explaining the meaning of the word "Christmas," which comes from the conflation of the words Christ and Mass, of course.

Whack job.

[Finder]

6. The teacher TAUGHT!!

Regardless of her religion, she told the children facts. If she started pushing the Jesus myth as fact then she would be wrong but all she did was tell the children the facts about how the persona of Santa came to be.

Fundies and other religious types have always been against the Santa thing.

[ruggerson]

9. And don't you think the American people

deserve to know that religious rightwing Republicans hate Santa?

I think it needs to be publicized as loudly and as long as the supposed "War on Christmas", don't you?

The War On Santa.

[Finder]

14. I do agree with that... n/t

[Atman]

16. I kinda agree

I expected a much more outrage-inducing article, but alas I find myself thinking more along the lines of "Good for her." But not really. Obviously I'm torn on this one. Should we expect a teacher to abide by our little lists of lies we tell our kids, so we don't get tripped up? It isn't the teacher's place. She is an educator, and she told perhaps the only verifiable version of the story of Santa. As OP said, she educated. In fact, if done correctly, the whole story of Santa could be a fascinating lesson plan all by itself. But that would require open minds and big thinkers. And far fewer asshole parents, religious kooks, school board political aspirants...iow, average citizens. *sigh*

[dansolo]

38. She could have described the Santa myth

without the religious diatribe. She was basically telling the children that believing in Santa Claus was akin to blasphemy. That is where she crossed the line.

[Horus45]

20. 6 year old children do not have the mental capacity to...

know or care about the evolution of Santa Claus. What she did was wrong, it does not matter whether it was the truth or not, you cannot have an intellectual discussion with 6 and 7 year olds.
Now if she were talking with 16 and 17 year old kids your argument holds water, but we're talking about little kids who have had their beliefs trashed by an unfeeling bitch.

[Finder]

28. Education is about facts, not beliefs...

if you don't want your children taught facts, then there is always homeschool as an option.

Not to say homeschooling is is for only those that want to avoid facts.

[The Doctor.]

40. But neither is it appropriate for any teacher

to outright tell 6 year-olds their beliefs are false.

This woman ruined something special that parents shared with these children. Perhaps those parents could have derived a couple more years of mileage out of that harmless belief. This was a direct violation of that.

It would essentially be the equivalent of a teacher telling a group lf children that Jesus was a myth. Fundie parents would be outraged... and I imagine this woman would be as well.

The Santa Myth is quite harmless and very special to children, and this woman took it upon herself to rob them of it despite what the parents might have wanted.

[DarleenMB]

62. Facts? Really?

So then why do we have classes in literature? For pete's sake. The teacher's assignment was to read the piece of literature called "Twas the night before christmas." IT'S A PIECE OF FICTION. It's a story. Why the hell couldn't she just READ it and skip the diatribe?

[gogo69]

49. you CAN have an intellectual discussion with 6 and 7 year olds

it is amazing how much they can soak up and how much more they understand than most would possibly think.

When you think about it... you lose the ability to have an intellectual discussion with most right-wing freaks shortly after that age ;-)

[FlaGranny]

64. You can have an intellectual discussion with a child

who is mature enough to figure out that Santa is a myth. Before they can come to that conclusion on their own, they cannot intellectualize. Just try discussing something like death with a 6 or 7 year old. Kids that age think Pokemon is real. Tell him Santa Claus isn't real, and he probably won't believe you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. This was not her job OR her responsibility

She was a sub. Her job was to follow the lesson plans left for her to follow.

It is also up to PARENTS to debunk the Santa myth, if they choose to do so. It is not right for a teacher to do this.

[Eric J in MN]

24. Exactly. When she teaches a poem about Humpty Dumpty

to little kids, she isn't obligated to say that Humpty Dumpty is real or fake, and she didn't have to announce that Santa Clause is fake.

She was out of line.

[One_of_8]

45. I agree

My son is 7, a 2nd grader, and he still wants to believe in Santa Claus. I don't want any teacher debunking Santa Claus. He asked me if I believed in Santa Claus, and I told him yes I did, that I felt Santa Clause was the spirit of giving to others, and that's what I believe in.

The sub was out of line. When you sub, you should follow the lesson plan. It seems clear that the reason she debunked the Santa 'myth' was because it offends her religous sensibilities. She feels that those who pretend that Santa Claus is real are teaching their children to worship a false god. She brought her religious beliefs into a first grade classroom, and I hope she's pulled from the sub list. She should only teach at private schools that share her philosophy, since she feels so strongly about assuming the parental role in other childrens' lives.

If I was one of the parents of those children, you can bet I'd be raising hell with the school district.

[Maestro]

55. Exactly!

It is extremely unreasonable and dangerous to say that this person was even the slightest bit correct in her actions. Fairy tales are good for the imagination and a wonderful to help a 6 or 7 year old develop his or her mind. Flatly denying that something like Santa Claus is a myth to these little guys was irresponsible. It wasn't her place. It would be the same if she had walked in and flatly denied in a junior year biology class that evolution is incorrect and we are all here by the hand of God without a doubt. Or is it somehow not as bad because she was talking about Santa to a bunch of stunned first graders? She was wrong!

[kevinbgoode]

32. Something tells me that she left out a few important points

like, for example, how the reason we really celebrate Christmas in this country is NOT because of religious endorsement, but because of the myth of Santa Claus - and how religious groups were against celebration of this holy-day for many years of our history.

[ProfessorGAC]

77. If There Are Things She Can't Make Herself Teach. . .

. . .she should simply not do that job. This is not a X/Y argument. There is a third option.

1) Teach the curriculum as planned.
2) Insert one's belief and cloak it in "history".
3) Quit
The Professor

[Horus45]

79. Same goes for Pharmacists who cannot fill the "Morning after pill"

Either they should be made to do the job they were hired to do or fire them.
For some strange reason they think they can get away with this kind of behavior.

[ProfessorGAC]

82. I Agree Totally

Actually, somewhere here in the archives, you will see i said exactly what you did about that very topic.
The Professor

[hyphenate]

84. Santa Claus

is a myth that parents will perpetuate within their families simply for the delight of the younger children. It is NOT something that a substitute teacher should take away from 6 and 7 year old children, regardless of teaching them about the reality of the legend.

Try reading the original editorial that Francis P Church, Editor of the New York Sun, wrote in response to eight year-old Virginia O'Hanlon. She had written the paper asking whether there really was a Santa Claus. It has become known as the "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" letter.

Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus
The People’s Almanac, pp. 1358–9. (Originally published in The New York Sun in 1897.)

We take pleasure in answering thus prominently the communication below, expressing at the same time our great gratification that its faithful author is numbered among the friends of The Sun:

Dear Editor—

I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, “If you see it in The Sun, it’s so.” Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?

Virginia O’Hanlon

Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies. You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You tear apart the baby’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

Are you so bent on telling children the truth that you overlook the wonder and the excitement they have over the legend of Santa Claus? Are you so bitter about your own encounters with the myth that you wish to drag the children's hearts down to that level as well? Children are of a different temperament than adults, and they believe ever so strongly in things they can't understand and see. We can be coldhearted and take away their joy, but should we? Need we take their childhood away from them before it is time?

[TankLV]

85. "Are you so bitter about your own encounters with the myth that you wish

to drag the children's hearts down to that level as well?"

That is it in a nutshell.

They are so bitter that they wish to DRAG EVERYONE DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL OF MEANNESS AND BITTERNESS.

[ComerPerro]

81. Well, there's no real proof that God exists, or that Jesus was his son

so, imagine if a substitute teacher came in and told the class that everything they heard about God and Jesus was a lie, and that they were just myths.

[ruggerson]

3. This is a gift - our spin for next year's holiday season

laid in our laps -

THERE IS A WAR ON SANTA CLAUS. WAGED BY THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT

We just need one or two friendly news commentator/talking heads to help us along and bingo, we've turned the "War on Christmas" right on its head.

[Cha]

41. These types must have been

busy keeping their kids away from the tv this year because there were an incredible amount of stories about the "magic of Santa Claus". Everytime you turn around some show was teaching Santa Claus was omnipotent :)

[malaise]

75. People need to think about this one carefully

All lies and myths are just lies and myths. Because one lie makes kids happy doesn't change the fact that it is a lie. My wish is for an athiest sub to kill the religious lies come next year.

[MichiganVote]

4. Santa is a religious idol? Damn. What about the Tooth Fairy?

[China_cat]

5. Hey Lady

It's a FUCKING POEM. What about that don't you understand? Do you make a point of telling children the backstory of Heffalumps before you read them Winnie the Pooh?

So what if this one's about Santa? It's still a piece of literature. LITERATURE. Nothing else. This woman sounds like some I've seen around here who want the libraries closed because the ideas contained in them don't conform to the bible.

Here's one for her...if she digests this she'll probably never be able to say anything more for the sputtering and foaming out of the mouth. The bible is just as much a lie as that poem and your god is just as real as Santa.

[anitar1]

51. Thank you for speaking what was in my mind.

We live in myth all the time.

[NanceGreggs]

7. Why are the brainless allowed to teach kids?

"No public-school teacher should be required to teach a belief ... that he or she believes to be false."

Judging the intellect of this woman based on her statement, she probably doesn't teach that 2 + 2 = 4 either.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. She is not a real teacher; she is a sub

And I would imagine not for long. I am reasonably certain she will no longer be called to sub in this particular district or in any surrounding ones.

[MissMarple]

8. I guess she doesn't like the Easter bunny, either....or the Great Pumpkin.

I can't get up in arms about this. It's stupid. My primary concerns are the ages of the children she was telling their is no Santa Claus, and her inserting her personal religious views into what is largely a secular, cultural practice.

[ruggerson]

10. You're missing the point

it's a beautiful political opportunity.

Next year, we have to make sure the entire MSM is buzzing about "The War On Santa" brought to you by religious conservatives.

Can't you see an incredible public relations bonanza when it's flying right down your own chimney?

;-)

[MissMarple]

17. A better point is the mega church abandonment of Christmas Day services.

Many churches across the U.S. did not hold Christmas Day services. They were just following the lead of their customers...err...church members. The rationale was that more folks will attend Christmas Eve but not Christmas Day because they want to spend that with family. It just wasn't cost effective.

You can't get more hypocritical than that. At least in the Catholic Church the priest still says mass no matter how many people attend. That was the way it used to be, anyway.

I just can't get too wigged out about that lady. I see the point, but I wonder if it will get the mileage...It's like saying you hate Easter because you don't believe in the Easter Bunny. But it is cute, "The War on Santa Claus", it might work.

:)

[Atman]

18. Look at the size of some of the new churches!

They're massive structures more akin to a civic center than a traditional corner church. They require facilities managers, not pastors. The cost of firing up the furnace on a cold Sunday morning probably is hard to make back with the offering plate, and still make Father McFeely's rent and Lincoln payments. Isn't God only business, after all?

[MissMarple]

19. Yes, many churches are in the God "business".

It's just another way to make a few bucks, it's like "show business" to them, just another form of entertainment. Keep the folks happy and they will keep coming back with their dollars.

[susanna]

54. Since they're tax-exempt...

They should just suck it up and fire up the furnace.

[mwb970]

69. Imagine if they had been "forced" to close the churches on Christmas.

The screaming and sobbing would be overwhelming. But when they do it to themselves, there is not a word from the wackos.

I was visiting my mom in the Cleveland area over the Christmas weekend, and I listened to the local Christian AM station (1220) as I drove around. First I heard one preacher totally debunk the "myths" about Christmas - he covered everything - Jesus was actually born, not in a stable, not in Bethlehem, not in December, in March or April in 5 BC. No star in the east. No wise men, no gifts. He carefully went through it all and proved that the whole story is a myth.

In the next program, a different preacher said that Christmas "isn't really that important" to Christians, that the important Christian holidays are Good Friday and Easter.

What would the "War On Christmas" folks make of what I heard from these Christian preachers, especially on a Christmas day when many churches were closed so that their members could eat, open presents, and watch football?

[The Icon Painter]

31. No Difference

And how is this different from those benighted pharmacists who insert their personal religious views into the relationship between women and their doctors?

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. It is no different

That is a great analogy.

[johnnypneumatic]

11. if parents tell lies to their children,

it is their fault for the damage done when the children find out the truth. Others have no obligation to become an accomplice after the fact by going along with the lie.

[Clark2008]

30. Santa Claus isn't a myth.

Geez, people - some of you haven't any imagination.

I'm 33 years old and I still believe in Santa Claus. Granted, it's not so much the person as the idea - but I'll be damned if some fundie freak who lacks any fucking imagination and ability to shine tell my kid something otherwise.

[LostinVA]

70. I agree, Clark -- THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SANTA

Lighten up, people. There's nothing wrong with the "myth" of Santa, and all these statements about parents lying to their kids is truly eye-rolling to me. It's something fun, something wondrous and child-like. I never, ever thought my parents lied to me, ever. Geez. I figured out really young there was no real Santa, but I', 41, and still "believe" -- in the legend, the fun of it. This teacher did something wrong, period.

[FlaGranny]

65. How many people do YOU know that

have been scarred for life by Santa Claus?

[LostinVA]

72. Absolutely zero -- including me

I actually talked about this to me teenaged niece and nephew this weekend... they said they loved thinking Santa was real, and still loved it after they figured it out, especially during that time when their parents still thought they believed in Santa. They said they still do think he's real, in the "spirit of giving" sense, and we all put out cookies and a beer for the old guy Christmas Eve (the old guy being my Dad who drank the beer and ate the cookies!).

[TankLV]

87. So, are you going to FULLY and COMPLETELY explain where babies come from

to 6 and 7 year olds? How about 2 and 3 year olds?

Can't do it without pictures and diagrams, either.

That is the most utter and complete bullshit I've ever heard.

How about "Daddy isn't in heaven, his body is in the ground and worms are eating his eyeballs, and it's all cold and dark, and his flesh is disloving!"

Sometimes little fibs make life more tolerable, and are quite necessary.

[TahitiNut]

12. "fundamentalist" or not, she's got a point.

While I have my deeply-held personal spiritual (not "religious) beliefs, I admit to a deep discomfort with the secular propagation of the Santa Claus myth. I'm prone to respecting the mythologies of others as vessels for conveying some 'truth' (the contents of that vessel). When, however, the vessel is emptied of its cargo of 'truth' and perpetuated for the sake of its own perpetuation and associated institutional power, I have grave misgivings.

[NashVegas]

26. She Has a Great Point - But

I think it's a lesson much more suited to older students. Not necessarily 15 or 16 as someone else suggested, more like 11 or 12.

Little kids love mythology as much as anyone, I'd reckon. But first and second grade is a little young to be expected to grasp sociology.

What entertains me about her letter is that her reasoning is just as usable for asserting Christianity as myth.

[High Plains]

27. "deep discomfort"..."grave misgivings"

About Santa Claus? We've apparently got too much time on our hands.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

73. Yup... agreed.

[TahitiNut]

78. Do you even comprehend the point I made in my post?

:eyes:

[Beam Me Up]

13. Jesus is just as much a myth as Santa Claus.

Having said that, I think MYTHS are highly under rated, even after Joseph Campbell and Jung. The truth is not something any of us CAN know absent real myth.

[USA_1]

15. farrisi = pharisee

a play on words?

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. This is just as bad as the pharmacists who refuse to fill scripts

It is this teacher's J O B as a substitute to use the plans the teacher left - PERIOD. She has absolutely no right to deviate from them.

[Eric J in MN]

25. Let's assume for a moment that she is right that the poem

shouldn't be taught in public schools. The proper way for her to express her opinion on this is to talk to the principal, not to tell a bunch of little kids that there is no Santa Claus.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

29. Santa is an idol, now?

Fuck, why didn't I know that as a little kid?? I would have loved to have prayed to him.

:sarcasm:

Honest to gosh, it's all ridiculous.

[mwb970]

71. They do present Santa as a God-like figure.

He is watching you and knows everything you do. If you are "good, for goodness' sake", you get presents (a/k/a entry to Heaven), otherwise you get coal (a/k/a The Other Place). You are supposed to write/pray to this figure to convince Him that you are good and deserve presents. You should leave an offering for Him by the fireplace. There are even carols/hymns about Santa.

So Santa is God. I assume the Santa/Satan anagram is some kind of cosmic coincidence.

[LostinVA]

74. Yes, it is a coincidence

Santa -- "saint," etc.

Even s a child, I NEVER thought Santa was God-like -- I just figured my parent's told him what a good girl I was.

[ruggerson]

33. Ms. Farrisi's homepage

http://farrisivoicestudio.practicespot.com/

and she has written an in depth study of changing diapers:

http://www.burningchef.com/cgi-bin/amazon/amazon_products_feed_2.cgi?item_id=0965695557&search_type=AsinSearch&locale=us

[GrpCaptMandrake]

66. O.M.G.!

This dumb twit is a classical vocalist? :crazy:

I can only imagine she patently refuses to participate in productions of Wagner's operas, what with all those heathern valkilmeries an' whatnot!

And reading those freeper postings were a real slice of heaven, too! Shower time!

[burythehatchet]

34. ...and this information was read and understood by all at DU

as for the rest of the planet..."hey, did you see what the celebrity OOPS moment for 2005 was?"

[ruggerson]

35. The Freepers are all over this story

And just as I suspected, it splits them right in two:

The fundamentalists are applauding this woman, while the more secular rightwingers are outraged that she would do this to children.

And, most interestingly of all, it would seem that "Conservatrix" who posted this thread there is very likely our Ms. Farrisi, the woman in question.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1547162/posts?q=1&&page=1#1

[roguevalley]

37. they won't be satisfied until we're all as wretched and constipated

and frigid and asexual as they are.

[robbedvoter]

39. Teleevangelist shooting Santa on stage - I saw this REAL footage

although I am not sure whether it was The Daily Show or another place.

[Sydnie]

42. That probably was the most interesting thread I have ever seen there

It is split and I agree, Conservatrix, or whatever her SN is, appears to be the teacher involved.

How sad a person has to be to blow the reading of a classic poem so out of proportion.

When my daughter was in 2nd grade, I was the weekly guest reader most of the year. There were things that were required to be read to the class through the state. I didn't agree with all the things that were on that list of things to be read, so I didn't read on the weeks that they were to cover those things. I never imposed my thoughts or beliefs on the classroom, even in the after story discussion portion of the class. I would encourage them to explore their own thoughts and express them, not tell them what to think of the story.

She would have served the students better to just read it as literature and not discuss it at all.

She, in mho, is a grinch.

[ruggerson]

44. I thought it was pretty fascinating too

What's interesting to me is how strongly people feel about it. And that a sizable minority over there think she did the right thing, because they see repeating the legend of Santa Claus as actually "lying to children." They view Santa and the Easter bunny as Satanic idolatry which is meant to demean Christ and confuse children. What a great, moronic wedge issue. It neatly cleaves the fundamentalist Pat Robertson types from the relatively sane, albeit totally wrong, rest of the party.

[Sydnie]

50. I was amazed by the number of posters there that

thought what she did was wrong and at the same time assumed that she was left wing! There must have been 5 or more posts correcting them about her religious and political affiliations. They just assumed that it was a touble making lefty that blew the santa story for a whole class of kids.

They did have some interesting posts stating their opinions and some that were so far out there, I wasn't sure I was still in the same thread.

I rarely go to that site to read anything. Never on my own, even then. I am pleasantly surprised by some of the logic in a few of their posts this time. Not that it will make me visit there on my own mind you .... :rofl:

edit - typo

[DawgHouse]

46. Wasn't Nicholas the Bishop of Myra, not Myrna?

If she's going to give a historical background, she should look it up.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

67. Correct

and Italian sailors desecrated his tomb and carried his bones back home.

[Aimah]

47. She should have left it alone.

Just not read the story if she felt that it got in the way of her own beliefs. People don't take into account the parents who don't teach their kids about Santa Clause because they don't celebrate Christmas.

Santa Clause may not be a symbol of Christianity but Santa Clause isn't a character tied to any other Holiday other than the Christian Holiday.

I'm all for inclusion and teaching children about all traditions but most often than not it doesn't work out that way. Everyone wants to include but not every parent wants their kid to learn about Wiccan or Islamic traditions so where do you draw the line?

[devinsgram]

48. Wow, this is from my hometown paper.

And it's the first time I've seen this, maybe because I refuse to read the Lebanon Daily Rag, due to it being a right-wing spin machine. So I can just imagine those who read it will probably agree. We have a lot of big fundie churches and lots of christian schools in this area. Also Myerstown has a big mennonite population and they roll-up the sidewalks at 6PM.

[cmkramer]

52. Huh?

There's nothing to what she wrote that gives any indication as to her religious views other than that she's probably a devout Roman Catholic.

And there is definitely nothing that indicates that she's right-wing in any way.

Earth to lefties: Being a devout follower of any religion does not make you a right wing fundamentalist.

[ruggerson]

53. Read this thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1547162/posts?q=1&&page=1#1

and you'll get a better idea of who the woman is. She's a religious rightwing Republican nutcase.

[cmkramer]

57. Huh again?

Again, zero evidence that she is a rightwing Republican. However, I only saw the first 100 responses.

I notice there are now over 550 responses in that thread. Perhaps you could bring over the posts that you believe prove your points.

And no, her response to the article proves nothing.

If you read what she wrote, she's saying that she doesn't want to teach about Santa because he's a substitute for religious figures, and she believes the separation of church and state does not allow for teaching about religion in public schools. However, if you are going to teach about Santa then you should teach about the other Christmas figure -- Jesus Christ -- if only for reasons of "diversity." I think she means to be a little snarky there.

[ruggerson]

60. I guess you didn't read carefully enough

I don't know how much more proof you want than this:

Note to cmkramer: This "conservatrix" poster is the woman in question. She is writing of herself in the third person.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1547162/posts?page=86#86

To: RGSpincich
"Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that she has told these youngsters that the US invaded Iraq to get their oil?"


No, she did not. She voted for George Bush and is a conservative republican Christian.



86 posted on 12/26/2005 8:54:35 AM PST by Conservatrix

And then further down the thread is this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1547162/posts?page=108#108
"This substitute teacher is a good example of the undereducated product of our liberal colleges. These young women have earned teaching degrees so they can go into our public schools and tear down American traditions. When they are not eroding American traditions, they are giving our adolescent boys hands-on learning experiences in sexual education."


She does not believe in sex-ed in public schools. She is a conserative, Bible-believing Christian, and a republican. She has two degrees in music, not elementary ed. She is hoping to find a job in a conservative, Bible-believing Christian school so this kind situation does not have to happen again!



108 posted on 12/26/2005 9:05:32 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")

[cmkramer]

63. I see what you mean now

I would consider what you posted to be fairly "damning" evidence of her political leanings.

[BoneDaddy]

56. Roman Catholic

I sincerely doubt Roman Catholic. I grew up Catholic, most of my friends and all of my family are Catholic and they, and every other Catholic I know, wouldn't dream of destroying the Santa myth.

It is a beautiful myth and children need them. If the myth is proposed by the parents in a negative way then it will be negative but if the parents treat Santa as a metaphor for family get togethers, loving one another and giving heart felt gifts instead of mass consumerism and consuption, then I see nothing wrong with it. Children need more myths and less t.v. and video games.


This teacher is entitled to her views and she may even find the subject matter objectionable, but she had no right to destroy their myths like that, it is plain mean spirited and wrong to do. When you have that power as a teacher you must not abuse it.

[cmkramer]

58. I agree

ITA that she was wrong to tell the kids that Santa is a myth. It doesn't matter that most kids figure it out by themselves and for most, it's not any kind of trauma, it's still not something that she had the authority to do.

I still think she is more likely a devout Catholic if only because her last sentence is "Catholic Speak" if I ever heard it. And I also grew up in the Catholic Church.

All of this is only my opinion. Mileages can and will vary.

[TankLV]

88. I know of no Catholic who speaks like this. It is not in any way shape

or form "Catholic Speak".

I am a recovering Catholic, and I am hardly a supporter of the current creation of the "church", but to make this claim is absurd.

But I can't speak for your experiences. I can only speak from mine.

Catholics have had NO problem with the myth of Santa Clause.

Mostly, they have, of course, emphasized the central figure of this holiday - the birth of Jesus, as opposed to wasting time condemning the existence of this myth.

[LostinVA]

76. I was raised RC,a nd Santa came to our Church every year

at the Christmas party. You can mix Santa with religion. It's not water and oil. All of the devout RCs I still know certainly do this without their heads exploding.

Earth to cmkramer.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

59. My favorite part :

"No public-school teacher should be required to teach a belief, custom or religion that he or she believes to be false, or be required to pass those purported falsehoods onto impressionable children, without the right to state a disclaimer."

I wonder if she says the same thing when the school board is debating adding intelligent design to the curriculum.

[stickdog]

61. Why do Republicans hate Santa Claus?

[rman]

68. "...as a religion, let Santa be kept out..." uhm, did i miss something?

Santaism, anyone?

[ComerPerro]

80. The idea of an imaginary man who lives on a sheet of ice and brings

everyone presents once a year, in the same night, is too absurd to bother teaching young children. Its a waste of time, and its insulting.

Instead, I prefer to teach them about a magical man who lives in the sky and grants your wishes. (that's how a lot of fundies view God and Jesus)

[TankLV]

89. and condems them to eternal suffering in HELL if they don't follow all his

demands!

Not to mention LIMBO for all the unbaptized children - or did humans masquerading as holy men/priests do away with that recently because they could?

[hyphenate]

83. She is a sadistic person!

Even though I am an agnostic/atheist (depending on my mood), I see absolutely no harm in letting children believe in Santa Claus. It is a harmless and endearing tradition that becomes a special bond between parents and their children, especially as the children age, and as they are then told to keep the mythology alive for their younger siblings.

Santa Claus is not truly a religious icon--he is a sanctioned figurehead of the holiday season, intended for nothing more than to put a face on the enjoyment of the season. It might have started as a Christian myth, referring to the purported Saint Nicolas, but what Santa has become is a sense of anticipation, of hope and of glee as it manifests itself in children of ALL ages.

The legend of our current Santa Claus is definitely an amalgamation of various beliefs and legends, but who cares? Just as long as children get excited, their eyes twinkling and their hearts hoping on Christmas Eve, what harm is there in allowing the legend to continue? Take away Santa Claus and you take away the sense of innocence that Santa Claus has always instilled. This teacher is the worst kind of hypocrite, and I hope the hell they fired her.



edited to correct typo!

[LeftyMom]

86. Amazon reviews on her (unrelated) book are talking about what she said

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965695573/104-7976734-9865558?v=glance&n=283155

I thought the name sounded familiar. Her book is useless- really out of date, btw (I got it from the library a few years back.)