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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:15 AM
Original message
''Whatever it takes" does not mean ''whatever the president says it takes.
ELLEN GOODMAN
Bush's false choices
By Ellen Goodman | December 23, 2005

SO IT COMES DOWN to September 11, 2001. Again. The president has drawn a great dividing line through the country, separating his supporters from his critics. Again.


''Whatever it takes" does not mean ''whatever the president says it takes." It does not mean becoming our own worst enemies. It does not mean approving torture or domestic spying. And it most certainly does not mean watching silently as a commander in chief takes on the uniform of a generalissimo.

Who owns September 11? The White House has built its own memorial and raised a stiff price of admission. It only allows in those who agree with the president. But the memory and meaning of 9/11 do not belong to any partisan. It's common ground waiting to be recaptured. Whatever it takes.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/12/23/bushs_false_choices/
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. the real memory of 9/11
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Welcome to DU *Wave*
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. Seems some missed this talking point
"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so." -- George Bush, April 20, 2004
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Rush pill head is not the press
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. FUCK RUSH LIMBAUGH
stop being such a sheep and do the research for yourself
alex jones 12/14/05
http://www.infowarsmedia.com/video/shows/121405_bb.wmv
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. yeah right, if that had happened
with the repukes after Clinton the way they were it would have sunk Clinton. Anything Clinton did was under the repukes micro scope. Nice try as far as i can tell prison planet is the only news agency that has the story get real.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. "he quotes the article "
Who is 'He'?
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. he is alex jones
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Thank you for the promp answer. and if I may suggest something...
calling someone on this board a 'lazy fuck' on your first day is not a way to earn credibility, or allies.
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I second that Viva. N/T
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. allies
thats where I stand, if no one is willing to challenge the truth of a subject because they are allies what good does that do for american in general, screw my own standing on your forum.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. you may very possibly be on the wrong board....
We are sticklers here for facts and intelligent civil discourse.

So far, you have not shown either.
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #24
43. Are you always so caustic? Look it up.
Viva is trying very hard to be diplomatic with you and you keep getting all bent out of shape. While Alex Jones has some interesting stuff, and much that I am sure is fact based, he also has a bit of an exaggeration problem. A bit of sensationalism. Facts are important. That is how you get to the truth.

Oalfr
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
47. we have a certain resepct on as you say"our forum" and it seems to me
you need to find another forum more to your liking..as you attitude doesn't seem to fit on this forum...

personally ..i do not like seeing a newbie , calling a member in good standing on du..the forum of my choice .."fucking lazy"...now maybe on a certain forum you come from that is acceptable..but it is not to me on my forum of choice..i find it totally disrespectful, ignorant ..and totally uncalled for...

bye bye!!

fly
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. truth is more imporant that allies
if he wants to ignore the truth and write it off to some shit the rush for brains mabey mentioned 6 years ago then thats his problem, but I will NEVER sacrifice truth for allies.
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I am failing to see the truth you are getting at. Perhaps I am
dense, please explain your point further.

Olafr
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
50. It seems to me that you already have. n/t
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. It is the warrantless part that is the particular problem. There
must be a balance of power.
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Are you legit? If you are, Welcome to DU. N/T
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. some people need to put the crack pipe down
Clinton was in office during the school shootings era. There is no way he could have called for any such action and NOT have it splashed on the front page of every paper in the country.

Did you make a wrong turn on the internets or something?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. Stock RW mouth-foaming pseudo-argument: "CLINTON DID WORSE!" (He didn't.)
Eyjoy your stay. Your pizza, and a Western to watch (with Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer, good movie) should arrive shortly.
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
32. Ya. Right. "Clinton was the devil." Go back to freep land. n/t
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 10:27 AM by bluerum
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Hi bluerum!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. id probably get banned from the free-retardic
faster than I will from here, and calling me a right winger is like the communists protesting the RNC in NYC in 2000 accusing alex jones a person who has done entire pieces tying the bush money to the nazi's a fox news plant. what a joke.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Yes, yes... we know all about alex jones...
As I stated earlier, we have been dissecting his articles here for years, and we are rarely impressed. Can you site a second source or not?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. see post #45...
smartass.

Yes, I'm done being 'diplomatic' with you.
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I previously posted in another thread exactly why I think there
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 09:34 AM by olafvikingr
has to be something to this. Here are those reasons:

1) Sen. Rockefeller's note. This made him so uneasy he decided to write himself a note and lock it up, you know, just in case.

2) Surveillance Judge RESIGNING and others calling for an inquiry.

3) I've seen far too many Legal Scholars from both sides saying this is clearly illegal.

4) He LIED about it when he said we still needed courts involved. He lied to the American people about it, and that is one undeniable, irrefutable fact. Why would he do that?...becasue it was something he should not have been doing.

Olafr



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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thats what I was getting at when
I got side tracked into some dumb Clinton took over a school garbage. Funny how this is the first time I ever heard of that and wouldn't Ken Star have used that instead of a stained dress to get Clinton? sheesh.
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. You know, that is also another good point.
Don't you think with all the effort, time, and money spent to impeach Clinton on something, that if he was doing this kind of thing and ignoring the law, that they would have nailed his ass for it? The best they could get was him lying about adultery. So he was either fairly straight and legal in his dealings, or he covered his ass REALLY well.

Olafr
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Ken Star '' hmmmmm stained dress or Clinton terrorizing school kids''
''Lets go With the stained dress, after all we are jealous he's getting action and we are not''. LMAO
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. heres the pensacola news journal article on the marines in schools in 99
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 10:08 AM by Demockery101
Heres the Pensacola review journal article in its entireity, to bad they don't even archive their own stories, but fortunately places like infowars does, so you can spout whatever bullshit you want about infowars, but at least they archive news articles in their entiriety.

By Jenny LaCoste

News Journal staff writer

The sleepy atmosphere that precedes first period was broken at Hobbs Middle School on Thursday morning by the sound of Marines, Navy and Coast Guard pilots marching through the school's halls.

While sixth-graders in Lynnette Whitfield's geography class were watching CNN reports on NATO airstrikes against Yugoslavia, they heard a voice bark over the intercom: "Military personnel, take your classrooms."

The mock "takeover" of Hobbs Middle School by pilots and flight students from Whiting Field was a way to illustrate what martial law is all about, said Lt. Troy Beshears, a Coast Guard pilot assigned to Whiting Field Naval Air Station.

But once the sailors and Marines were in the classrooms, their mission was to teach for a day subjects such as math, science, history, and geography and give teachers a break.

"We're going for shock value initially," said Navy Lt. Dan Deutermann, 29. "but in the classrooms we're showing the students practical applications of what they're learning."

Some students brought up questions about the Kosovo situation.

Seventh-grader Cory Keelan selected Yugoslavia when a Navy ensign teaching geography asked students to name their favorite European country.

"I just like the name of it. It sounds cool," said Cory, 13. "I've been hearing it a lot lately."

Whitfield said her class knows more about Yugoslavia than just the name. Her students have been learning geography of the area, the history of the ethnic groups involved in the fighting that has killed more than 2,000 people in the Yugoslav province of Kosovo and keeping tabs on the current NATO air assault on Yugoslavia.

"Some of my students still don't really have a grasp on the situation, but others do because they talk about it with their parents," she said.

One of Whitfield's students, Julie McCool, said the presence of the military personel in her school made the news she had been watching from Yugoslavia seem a little more real.

"I just don't want it to get much worse," said Julie, 12.

Navy Ensign Kelly Robbins taught a class on geography, charting a Pacific cruise he took on an aircraft carrier and talking about his ports of call.

While an enlisted sailor working in intelligence, Robbins said he had to brief admirals, senators and Secratary of State Madeleine Albright, but middle schoolers made him nervous.

"At least with them, I knew what questions to anticipate," said Robbins, 27. "With kids, you're not sure what they might ask."

Besides giving students insight into places like Taiwan, Thailand and Singapore, Robbins gave the kids an idea of what it's like to be in the military.

He spent his first Christmas as a sailor in Hong Kong.

"You don't get to come home for Christmas?' Cory Keelan asked Robbins.

"No' not when you're on a ship," Robbins said.

"Did you get Christmas dinner?" Corey, 13, pressed.

Besides geography, flight students taught physiology, explaining how night goggles work with the human eye, aerodynamics and geometry.

"Kids don't realize that there are freeways in the sky and we have to use geometry to figure out our couse when we fly," said Beshears. "We're just showing them that the skills they're learning now are applicable in life."

The visit is part of the Whiting Field Adopt-A-School program coordinated by Beshears. Every instructor and flight student paricipating volunteered to take part.

Last year, students from Hobbs and another school communicated via e-mail with a Coast Guard lieutenant on a cruise bound for the South Pole and had a video teleconference with their frind once she got there.



I even when so far as to call the pennsacola news journal 850-435-8500 , just now and ask if jenny lacoste was a staff write, and she was at the time this was written, so put that in your fucking pipe and smoke it, lazy ass mother fucker


forum threads from that time not connected to info wars
Please see :www.infowars.com It seems the Marines are preparing our children for Martial Law.

-- Betty Alice (Barn266@aol.com), April 08, 1999

Answers

This is a story about how several branches of the military were giving Pensacola teachers a break by taking classes for one day in all sorts of subjects--including geography. Sweetie was in the Navy and they've been volunteering for such projects for years. He did a similar thing for the Boy Scouts and the 4-H Club. It's valuable because service people have often been to places the kids are studying. The only thing different here is that the kids were learning about Kosovo. They would have known in advance that the military folks were coming in to teach them and so were not afraid to hear the PA announcing they were taking the classrooms. The military folks marched in to give the kids an idea of what had happened in some schools in Kosovo, not to get them used to martial law here. I'm not saying martial law won't be imposed here if there are civil disorder problems, but let's not stretch an innocent incident so far.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), April 08, 1999.

Looks like Betty and I posted at the same time - ooops.

OldGit, I respectfully disagree with you on this one. Far from being an "innocent incident", this is part and parcel of the indoctrination and brainwashing that is being force-fed our children who attend public school. The fact that these kids were supposedly being given a new slant on current events is hogwash, as far as I'm concerned. Look at this quote:

"The mock "takeover" of Hobbs Middle School by pilots and flight students from Whiting Field was a way to illustrate what martial law is all about, said Lt. Troy Beshears, a Coast Guard pilot assigned to Whiting Field Naval Air Station

What's left to understand? Seems pretty straightforward to me... "Hey, kids, it's just martial law, we'll have a question and answer period, then have cookies and milk."

Bulls**t.

-- sparks (wireless@home.here), April 08, 1999.

This is no more "innocent" than the harmless Red Square May Day parades or Nuremburg rallies: military displays of any kind ALWAYS have an ulterior psych war purpose.

-- Himalayan Blue (hb@k2.y), April 08, 1999.

Sparks & Betty,

I think you've got this one wrong. It was a "psy-op" alright, but not for the reason that you concluded. It was, as the "Coastie" said, to teach the "kids" about martial law.

It seems far more likely to me that the intent was to indocrinate the "kids" with the belief that what the Serbs are supposedly doing is "martial law" and to "scare them a little" so that they come out of the experience with the idea that, "Our President is a good man. He is helping those people that the "bad" military Serbs are "taking over". It might even have been intended to foster that belief in the minds of the military! Egad! What a thought! Could the real "kids" have been the "teachers"?

As you may have noted, I'm of the conclusion that martial law in the U.S. is simply not in the cards, and as such, "prepping" the kiddos for it would be pointless.

In any case, whether you're right or I am (or neither), it was, at best, an ill advised stunt. The kids' own teacher should have made a simple introduction and the reporter should have selected a word other than "bark" and should not have given the impression of marching troops in school hallways. Old Git is right, P'cola has been doing this for a long time and a lot of those kids are most likely "military brats" anyway and know all about "martial law".

If you simply do not trust our armed forces, you are indeed in a bad place.

And, as long as I'm talking about "psy-ops", let me add that the title chosen for this thread was more than a little misleading. It conjures up images of bayonet wielding combat Marines assualting a children's school. The actual fact is that a group of student pilots fomr the Navy and Coast Guard as well as the Marines, taught school some and did a military "show and tell" for the kids of the community that they live in.

You guys watch too much TV!

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), April 08, 1999.

Hardliner, you can read my response here:

wireless@home.here), April 08, 1999.
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. adendum: they don't archive for more than 7 days unless you pay
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. My aren't we aggressive? I am failing to see where this is in
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 10:12 AM by olafvikingr
any way similar to the spying we are talking about. The article does not mention anything about weapons or about students feeling scared or terrorized, etc. I don't know if I agree with an approach of bringing military personnel into a school in a drill fashion like this, it would seem much more appropriate for civilian law enforcement, and I still don't know if I like that, but I do not see any illegality on the face of it. Furthermore, the school asked them to come and they were volunteers, not some big military mission.

Olafr
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. So in another words your linking what the coast gaurd done with
Clinton and shrub doing illegal wiretaps? Damn, thats a real good one, how many kids were taken out of the classroom and questioned for hours? How many students were detained from this? Get a grip your comparing apples and oranges.
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. police state is police state
however large or small the mesaure is, its the same scenario training YOU for all out martial law. Have you ever heard of the boiled frog scenario, a frog doesn't know its being boiled if you turn up the heat slowly. They just gradually condition you to dissuade yourself of such things like you just did "oh its apples and oranges". NO, NO its fucking not, police state training is police state training plain and simple. You think the NYT article was some great revelation?? They have been doing that shit for over two decades now, the NYT is just whitewashing it so that it can be tied into the amerian pshyche with terrorism, that way if another "unfortunate event" happens they can trumpet it as what was protecting us until the "liberal leftist" media exposed it and they had to stop.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. If this is some plan to indoctrinate our children....
there would be several incidents of this happening. I see one. One bad decision by one school. Not some widespread conspiracy.

Critical Independent thinking is also highly valued here at DU.
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. well then
mabey you should go do some critically independent research on the subject, they have been visiting out elementry schools pouring fake guts on them and fake blood, even going so far as telling them that home schoolers are going to get them. Go to the part of the thread title "FUCK RUSH LIMBAUGH" it has a link to alex's webcast from last week, he has video from another school where even the principle admitted the guard was there because they "were having student issues", watch the video its not that hard, the truth is RIGHT THERE, you just have to be willing to face it.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. Just so you are aware...
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 10:35 AM by Viva_La_Revolution
we have debated Prison Planet here for several years, and it is not considered a site we trust all that much. However, if you have other links to back it up, we will consider the information. They are occasionally correct.

BTW - I am doing my own search, nothing found yet...

on edit. still nothing. Anybody out there with Lexis access wanna give it a try? I'm only finding articles on PP and infowars, etc.
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Demockery101 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. not considered a site we all trust??
what the hell are you some sort of collective group thinking amoporphus blob? What happened to individualism?

what sites do you trust for your news, the same ones that have been constantly lying to you? See thats the thing Alex will use AP rueters ect when an article exposes whats going on, but you even have to cut through the spin of those articles, so praytell where do you find all your info. And for the record I don't get nearly half my news from alex, he just has a good opinion and insight on whats there. Most of my news comes from a conglomeration of mainstream propoganda machines watchdog groups and free press sites.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Here are other articles linked to this discussion...
from WAPO and Houston Chronicle.

While I see where this is NOT good for our children, it looks to me like a whole lot of grownups freaking out about 'terrorists' and going way overboard.
I can see how this created a lot of fears, but I see no connection to 'indoctrinating us' to accept Martial Law.

And it still has nothing whatever to do with the original OP.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/1825138.html
WAPO links are expired. full text found at ParaPolitics
http://www.parapolitics.info/phorum/read.php?f=23&i=94&t=93
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. I am waiting till the NYT reports it. Then I will belive it. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. No - I watch FOX news too. n/t
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:42 AM
Original message
Welcome bluerum... I think you forgot something?
from the smilies table... :sarcasm:

As has been recently shown again NYT is no longer the 'paper of record'. Hasn't been for quite some time.
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
48. Ur right.. Letf off the sarcasm emoti - I thought it was obvious.
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 12:32 PM by bluerum
Where are the emoticons anyway?

I will probably be wearing out the sarcasm emoticon!
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. When you are posting, look right above the subject line...
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 03:03 PM by Viva_La_Revolution
click Smilies lookup table - and the smilies will pop up in a new window.
You can just click to add, or while typing add /: sarcasm :/ (without the slashes).

:)
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Ahhh,,,,, smilies !
:hi:
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
51.  Demockery101 please read
in the future please limit your snips of articles
to 4 paragraphs as per the Democratic Underground
copyright rules .

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
36. I'm fond of saying - to more than a few gasp
that those that died on September 11, 2001, were the last "free" ( certainly more free) Americans. I believed it the first time I said (9-11-01) and I still believe it.

"911" was a horrible day - but the aftermath continues to be the real tragedy.

September 11th didn't change anything - the action/reaction of the government did. Yes, it changed lives forever of those who lost loved ones. But it was government that changed - that imposed - a new order, a new paradigm, not the events of September 11th.

No one "owns" September 11th - but we're all for damn sure paying for it.





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harpo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
42. "whatever it takes" vs. "the law of the land"
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