How comfotable were they when Nixon did it?

[Peachhead22]

One talking point I like to use when discussing this with a Bushbot is "Now that Bush has said he can bug without oversight how comfortable will you be when the next Prez after Bush comes in and claims the same perogative? Even if the "next Prez" is your worst friggen nightmare? Either an anti-gun crusader or (gasp) Hillary Clinton?

But I just thought of another tack. Richard Nixon did a very similar thing to the current domestic spying. Don't let the Bushies fool you that only "terrorists" or people with "terrorist ties" were spied on. BushCo's Pentagon (it wouldn't surprise me if the NSA too) also spied on various anti-war and environmental groups (getting deja vu yet?)

And Nixon claimed some very similar perogatives to what Bush is now claiming. Plus, we were at war. Both in Vietnam and then Cold War with the (nuclear armed to the teeth) Soviets.

Do the present 'Pubs support the actions of Nixon in the early 70's? If any 'Pub answers that in the affirmative while on TV, then it game-set-match. The general public would hand them their ass.

[acmejack]

1. Many of them are the same people!

Support, hell, they promulgated those illegal policies & procedures. This time they are relying on past experience.

[Warpy]

3. Very true, and because Nixon skated,

they saw no reason not to repeat it.

That is why the biggest mistake in the last 50 years was Nixon's pardon. He really needed to be charged in a court of law over all that stuff.

The point we have to keep hammering on this one is that they had access to a tame court, one that had turned down only five of over nineteen thousand requests for wiretapping. Why were there no warrants?

When members of Congress in the early 70s started to think about that very carefully, they realized why there were no warrants. Nixon lost the support of his own party when they realized that they, too, were likely targeted.

Eventually it'll dawn on all but the dumbest ones like Santorum, and support for Stupid among his own party will start to evaporate.

That's when we'll have a good chance of getting rid of this gang, but not before then.

[AtomicKitten]

2. they were not only comfortable with it but are po'd -

that we have a problem with it all over again. The indignation Republicans muster because we have the audacity to object to the illegal, immoral way our country is being run is hilarious.

[emulatorloo]

4. Cheney learned at the feet of Nixon -- check this article

by Sidney Blumenthal If you haven't seen it already -- back in a sec w a link

ON EDIT:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_112505N.shtml

A real good horrifying read if you havent seen it

<snip>


The Long March of Dick Cheney
By Sidney Blumenthal
Salon.com

Thursday 24 November 2005

For his entire career, he sought untrammeled power. The Bush presidency and 9/11 finally gave it to him - and he's not about to give it up.
The hallmark of the Dick Cheney administration is its illegitimacy. Its essential method is bypassing established lines of authority; its goal is the concentration of unaccountable presidential power. When it matters, the regular operations of the CIA, Defense Department and State Department have been sidelined.

Richard Nixon is the model, but with modifications. In the Nixon administration, the president was the prime mover, present at the creation of his own options, attentive to detail, and conscious of their consequences. In the Cheney administration, the president is volatile but passive, firm but malleable, presiding but absent. Once his complicity has been arranged, a closely held "cabal" - as Lawrence Wilkerson, once chief of staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell, calls it - wields control.

Within the White House, the office of the vice president is the strategic center. The National Security Council has been demoted to enabler and implementer. Systems of off-line operations have been laid to evade professional analysis and a responsible chain of command. Those who attempt to fulfill their duties in the old ways have been humiliated when necessary, fired, retired early or shunted aside. In their place, acolytes and careerists indistinguishable from true believers in their eagerness have been elevated.

<snip>

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. The excuse they will use is this:

Even if it was wrong when Nixon did it, 9/11 Changed Everything!. Now we are facing a Terrible Enemy that Hates Our Freedom and will Stop At Nothing To Destroy America!

We were at war in 1972, too, and there was the Cold War as well -- nukes and all. But the War On Terra is much, much worse, which means it's OK for Bush to wipe his ass with the Constitution. :sarcasm:

[emulatorloo]

6. The more 9/11 changes everything, the more things remain the same

I never thought I would miss Nixon.

[kenny blankenship]

7. Nixon is the angle Democrats need to explain this to the people

like this: "Richard Nixon, 30 years ago, did not have these powers although he abused them illegally as this President has done. He did not have these powers even though there was a war on in Vietnam and even though we faced the threat of annihilation by a true superpower opponent, far beyond any threat we face now, and the people, Republicans together with Democrats, agreed that the CONSTITUTION MUST BE UPHELD REGARDLESS. The legitimacy of our form of government was more important to preserve than the countervailing desire for Presidential continuity in difficult times--a Chief Executive who's violated knowingly the Law of the Land cannot be looked to enforce any law. The degeneration of our Constitutional Republic into a Executive Branch dictatorship is a threat more dangerous than any external threat because it comes from within accompanied with temptations and promises of safety and the illusory freedom of placing all responsibilities into one strong hand, falsely simplifying our lives as citizens. This is the scenario the Founding Fathers feared the most and why they placed the warmaking power into the hands of the people's representatives, not the Executive. To allow one person to arrogate to himself an unlimited police authority and an unlimited warmaking authority is to create a king, which spells the end of our Republic. It simply will not stand, and must be repudiated not merely reversed. And so it was in 1972, the stakes were absolute as I've outlined, the investigations went forward, albeit haltingly, in the courts and Congressional committee more and more scandalous discoveries were made about the abuse of power by the executive, and eventually Richard Nixon had to go...he had the sense and the grace, a remnant of personal grace in his public disgrace, to leave office voluntarily."

[B Calm]

8. As long as the person caught has that magical R letter, they're ok

with it..